MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: SteveP on October 23, 2009, 09:31:50 pm

Title: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 23, 2009, 09:31:50 pm
Today I had a chance to try my car on the dyno running with the OEM airbox (with OEM paperfilter) vs. the new ITG Intake.

This was done the HLM Tuning with the help of Andy from ITG and Carl from Revo.

Also along today was Robern2 (Nath) to have his ITG intake fitted and the Revo Stage 2+ code loaded on his car.

The results have really really surprised me.

So background info first: -

The Car -

Edition 30 DSG fueled with Shell V-Power, running

Revo Stage 2+ ECU Software
Revo DSG Software
Milltek Turbo Back Exhaust
KMD HPFP
THS FMIC

The Settings: -

OEM Airbox = B8-T5-F9

ITG Intake (with Ceramic Pipes) = B8-T5-F6

The results (dyno figures for wheel power): -

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2FGolfGtiEdn30_X50_DSG_ITG.jpg&hash=66d3ffb2e1b42da74c826c671abaf66d00f2bd5a)

These runs where back to back with the intake being swapped from the OEM to ITG with the car still on the dyno, it was then given a couple of minutes run to allow the car to adapt back to intake.

I will also post the boost log details once I receive these from Carl, but the key thing was the car just can't meet the requested boost from about 5.2k onwards with the OEM airbox, the difference was nearly 0.2 bar at some points IIRC.

It's worth pointing out this big difference in peak figures is because I am running the stage 2+ code which is move reliant on a good intake, but on stage 1 alone this should produce increases of around 15bhp  :smiley:

We also tried an ITG "touring car" spec foam filter (not suitable for normal road use), to see if this made any difference, but it only got 2 more bhp, so I doubt ITG will be offering this as an optional extra at this stage, but can be made for those track days or 1/4 mile runs.

So thanks to Hamish @ HLM, Andy @ ITG and Carl @ Revo for there help today  :drinking:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: gazbutS3 on October 23, 2009, 09:35:04 pm
very interesting Steve, did carl make any tweaks to the Revo code at all?
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 23, 2009, 09:40:25 pm
very interesting Steve, did carl make any tweaks to the Revo code at all?

Nope just logging and settings  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: KRL on October 23, 2009, 09:43:07 pm
Thanks Steve, great post  :happy2:

I'm curious.  Why did you change the fuel setting for the OEM intake to 9 and have it on 6 for the ITG?  I can't think of a reason why the OEM intake would not be able to cope with a fuel setting of 6 as you already have an uprated HPFP and this is the limitation when it comes to fueling.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 23, 2009, 09:49:20 pm
you have got to be kidding me :confused: :surprised: 43.1 bhp 15n/m torque increase between standard intake and the ITG thats absolutley nuts.

Did it really feel like that much of a difference when you initiallyt fitted.

I must admit when i fitted mine the car really hesitated and was really jerky until the ECU adapted to the new increassed air flow. I think i have had an increase but not quite that much, but then I did have another intake before hand.

Steve do you mind if i paste that dyno graph into my thread on brikoda.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Greeners on October 23, 2009, 09:52:07 pm
Wow  :congrats:

I think I need to get my pump sorted!  :party:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 23, 2009, 09:53:12 pm
you have got to be kidding me :confused: :surprised: 43.1 bhp 15n/m torque increase between standard intake and the ITG thats absolutley nuts.

Did it really feel like that much of a difference when you initiallyt fitted.

I must admit when i fitted mine the car really hesitated and was really jerky until the ECU adapted to the new increassed air flow. I think i have had an increase but not quite that much, but then I did have another intake before hand.

Steve do you mind if i paste that dyno graph into my thread on brikoda.

I had a performance panel in before with the carbonio, but really noticed a big difference with the ITG at the top end  :happy2:

Feel free to link this thread rather than just the graph  :smiley:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 23, 2009, 09:56:25 pm
to be honest since fotting mine I havent gone over 4000 revs so maybve i havent felt the main improvments. I might pop out in a minute, lol
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: chungster on October 23, 2009, 09:57:36 pm
Thanks Steve, great post  :happy2:

I'm curious.  Why did you change the fuel setting for the OEM intake to 9 and have it on 6 for the ITG?  I can't think of a reason why the OEM intake would not be able to cope with a fuel setting of 6 as you already have an uprated HPFP and this is the limitation when it comes to fueling.

i don't think its about coping with F6 on the OEM airbox, more to do with ITG requires a richer mixture setting due to increased air flow capability at the top of the rev range (or else you could see it run too lean and start detting and things getting hot)

very impressive difference tho with just the ITG intake.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: KRL on October 23, 2009, 10:02:25 pm
^ Yes that makes sense  :happy2:

Running F6 also means the car will pull back less timing as EGTs will be lower with a richer AFR and this could have contributed a little to the massive difference in power.  Still very impressive though.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Greeners on October 23, 2009, 10:05:31 pm
Is it possible to run the Revo ST2+ software with the OEM filter? I thought I had read recently it can't be done?  :confused:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 23, 2009, 10:09:20 pm
Is it possible to run the Revo ST2+ software with the OEM filter? I thought I had read recently it can't be done?  :confused:

Yes it's possible, but as my results show you aren't going to get much benefit without a good intake  :happy2:

Same for a better IC, if you look at robern2 graph you will see a dip towards the end of the rev range due to things starting to get a bit hot   :smiley:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Greeners on October 23, 2009, 10:11:19 pm
Is it possible to run the Revo ST2+ software with the OEM filter? I thought I had read recently it can't be done?  :confused:

Yes it's possible, but as my results show you aren't going to get much benefit without a good intake  :happy2:

Same for a better IC, if you look at robern2 graph you will see a dip towards the end of the rev range due to things starting to get a bit hot   :smiley:

Ah I see, IC may have to wait for now but the pump I think is a must!  :wink: :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 23, 2009, 10:39:18 pm
i must admit the proof is there in the dyno and I dont doubt for a second the figures or results.

what i can t get though is how this has given  40bhp+ over stock yet

The evoms gives 8-12bhp,  The twintake is predicted to give only15-18bhp (as was this initially, and it was tested on the REVO leon on dyno's as well), .

Thats twice the amount which is pretty nuts. I dont doubt that the intake is good for a second. But 20bhp better :surprised:

there are alot of little design features that can put this intake ahead of the competition but I just cant get around the huge difference.

it is definately worth the money though, that is without doubt.

We need someonbe to test the twintake back to back with stock air box as well now.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: KRL on October 23, 2009, 10:51:33 pm
what i can t get though is how this has given  40bhp+ over stock yet

The gains are certainly very impressive although I don't think it will all be down to the ITG.

1.  Firstly the difference in remap settings will have made a difference.  However it could be argued that without the intake you could not make these changes to the settings.

2.  Secondly ECU probably had not had time to fully adapt to the OEM intake.

Any way you look at it though the gains are excellent and are a credit to ITG for making such a great filter and a credit to revo for being adjustable enough to be able to take advantage of the filter.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Hurdy on October 23, 2009, 10:54:57 pm
Great figures Steve :happy2:

323WHP on a dynojet is well up there.

You need to get it down the Pod again now to see what it equates to :jumping:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 23, 2009, 10:56:32 pm
wasnt stating the figures were untrue just i never know a filter could make such a fdiffernce as that.

agree with the ECU readapting back to the original intake. My car when i fitted the ITG was like a bag of sh!te until it  adapted. Want to get mine on the rollers again now........ should i go to AMD Essex tomorrow is the question???
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: john_o on October 23, 2009, 11:03:21 pm
great results Steve , but I cant buy it sorry.
40 bhp from an intake  :surprised:

either you have hit the sweet spot of synergy for your modifications where the sum is greater than the individual parts
OR
the order in which things were done or some other factor has skewed the results, so the gain is not purely intake but intake + optimised pump
(could the HPFP be underperforming in a lower spec scenario ? so rather than the forge running being 40 better , the std run is actually low?)

in any case its a great result , the air intake clearly works VERY well , and your car must FLY ........... :pomppomp:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 23, 2009, 11:10:34 pm
im going to go upto AMD tomorrow I thinkHopefully they will be able to fit me in. Last time i went it was with the code red intake and a newly installed stage2+ map with no time for adaption.

It should now have adapted fully, plus ive fitted the PCV fix(I think the old one was gone) and now the ITG intake. Ill post the results up when im back
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: chungster on October 23, 2009, 11:14:03 pm
i do wonder actually would the normal stage 2 file have got more with the OEM intake vs S2+ file.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 24, 2009, 08:07:51 am
great results Steve , but I cant buy it sorry.
40 bhp from an intake  :surprised:

either you have hit the sweet spot of synergy for your modifications where the sum is greater than the individual parts
OR
the order in which things were done or some other factor has skewed the results, so the gain is not purely intake but intake + optimised pump
(could the HPFP be underperforming in a lower spec scenario ? so rather than the forge running being 40 better , the std run is actually low?)

in any case its a great result , the air intake clearly works VERY well , and your car must FLY ........... :pomppomp:

I am not for one minute saying the ITG will give you 40bhp, which is why I worded my original post very carefully.  :wink:

IMHO it is because of, as you call it, "the sweet spot of synergy" for my mods.

The car was run up on the dyno for a good 15mins before and had 4 runs with OEM airbox, and the results where within 2-3bhp. So it wasn't completely unadapted to the OEM airbox nor was this just a one off run with very low figures.

Also remember it had the original paper filter (that had covered about 5k miles) and not a high flow panel.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: CarrG on October 24, 2009, 10:12:33 am
Some great figures. Making me think to swap my Dbilas but ouch the cost!
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 10:41:47 am
Ive been on AMD techniks rollers this morning and the difference is still ncouraging. Once I figure out how to use my new scanner, ill upload the Dyno graphs.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: CocoPops on October 24, 2009, 10:45:32 am
Wow  :congrats:

I think I need to get my pump sorted!  :party:

Group Buy Nath?  :grin:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 10:47:19 am

Some great figures. Making me think to swap my Dbilas but ouch the cost!


....Like john_o, I think it's much more about the 'sweet spot of synergy' between ALL of Steve's mods. There's a real danger of relatively expensive disappointment in simply strapping on an ITG and expecting mega bhp gains.

As Steve has alluded to (if I've understood correctly), an aftermarket fuel pump, intercooler, and Revo code/settings are all major contributing factors.

Steve's car is now a very fine example of what can be gained by carefully selecting and balancing a whole package of mods.

What we now need is a similar exercise applied to a K03 GTI and also evidence of how the ITG performs on a car with lesser mods such as oem intercooler and fuel pump.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 10:51:59 am
Im just trying to upload my map now, scanners giving mee Jip. I have the results from when I had the code red intake on, and what I have now.

I do not however have the intercooler though, but i do have the smaller willy...i mean turbo
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: CocoPops on October 24, 2009, 10:56:29 am
I need to get down to JKM then I guess RR.

I'm running ITG/Bluefin St2/Full Non Res Milltek. Would be interested to see what I get.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: CarrG on October 24, 2009, 11:01:23 am

Some great figures. Making me think to swap my Dbilas but ouch the cost!


....Like john_o, I think it's much more about the 'sweet spot of synergy' between ALL of Steve's mods. There's a real danger of relatively expensive disappointment in simply strapping on an ITG and expecting mega bhp gains.

As Steve has alluded to (if I've understood correctly), an aftermarket fuel pump, intercooler, and Revo code/settings are all major contributing factors.

Steve's car is now a very fine example of what can be gained by carefully selecting and balancing a whole package of mods.

What we now need is a similar exercise applied to a K03 GTI and also evidence of how the ITG performs on a car with lesser mods such as oem intercooler and fuel pump.

Yes i have had all the supporting mods for quite some time. I don't expect to bolt on the ITG and gain 40hp! Would just be curious to see the difference between DB and ITG.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 11:09:52 am

I need to get down to JKM then I guess RR.

I'm running ITG/Bluefin St2/Full Non Res Milltek. Would be interested to see what I get.


....Yours would make an excellent comparison and provide further assessment of the ITG.

Isn't there also another Dyno-Dynamics meet coming up soon? Surrey, organised by Oil? Although JKM are best because they already have so many previous logs and data and are never over optimistic.

Assuming an Ed30 already has a Stage2, you're looking at needing to budget around £1,400 for HPFP (APR), intercooler, and ITG.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 11:15:48 am

Yes i have had all the supporting mods for quite some time. I don't expect to bolt on the ITG and gain 40hp! Would just be curious to see the difference between DB and ITG.


....Sorry but I'm not so intimately knowledgable of your mods. My response to your post was also addressed to a wider audience.

Indeed, a DB vs ITG comparison would be interesting.

:happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 11:21:45 am
Well before I had this Intake fitted, which if I remember correctly as I cant find the Dyno graph for it gave me 7bhp over Stock airbox, pipercorss panel filter and Carbon Air scoop whe running Bluefin stage 1@ the time

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi756.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx202%2Fsimonskerton%2Fcar%2520pics%2F149_01.jpg&hash=acdac4ed5e543939dbffa1803db4cb0ef635624d)

At AMD essex It ran 277bhp, 305Ibft. Bluefin stage 2+

The red line is the stage2+ plot
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fsimonskerton%2Fcar_pics%2Fstage2andcoderedintake003.jpg&hash=8fa1edb039e43cec055545c75194c1e6ab2db455)

Since then this was fitted

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fsimonskerton%2Fcar_pics%2FSDC10273.jpg&hash=ca8072ea2984e53f316922ab7b1422aeb3b37e21)

And the results are as shown below.
As you can see

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fsimonskerton%2Fcar_pics%2Fstage2andITGintake001.jpg&hash=ed75e165b87e248f0d12498a1a1eceb9187b174a)

I had been giving the car quite a hardworkout on the way there then got caught in traffic and as you can see my first two runs wern't the best as my inlet temps were through the roof. Spo they left it with the fans on the car for a while to cool it down. he the 3rd run as you can see gave me 286bhp 301 Ibft

So 9bhp increase over the previous intake both at stage 2+, and peak torque was down which initially caught me by suprise until i looked and the entire rev range torque spread was better.
10Ibft more @2500rpm and a flatter plateau of torque between 3000rpm and 5700rpm.

What shaun mentioned as well which sounds about right to is that the intake will block the heat from the engine very well, whereas it doesnt show the real time benefits with the Bonnet up and a fan on it.

So Id guess that i have made about 16-18bhp over stock which is kwhat i was hopig for.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Hedge on October 24, 2009, 11:36:47 am
You do realise that your previous runs ambient temp was at 22 degrees C and this one was done at freezing.  :confused:

I would expect a difference tbh.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 11:41:05 am
Sh!t yeah, thats pissed me off now. would the correction factor cancel this out though. but then if the temp is entered wrong comared to ambient it doesnt matter i suppose.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 11:42:31 am
what effect would this have on the results do yo think. He emntioned theyare using new dyno software before i started. maybe a glitch possibly. im going to give him a call now i think
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 11:45:53 am

What shaun mentioned as well which sounds about right to is that the intake will block the heat from the engine very well, whereas it doesnt show the real time benefits with the Bonnet up and a fan on it.


....Shouldn't rolling-road runs always be done with the bonnet closed?
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Poverty on October 24, 2009, 11:47:12 am
Thats the first time I have seen a bluefin graph and tbh from a enthusiasts point of view that power curve near the top of the rev range doesnt seem quite right, or desirable anyway.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 11:49:12 am
@poverty dont forget this is k03 not k04, we cant get the same top end results you do. Also differnt scales will make the plot lines look different some times

@RR Ive been to a few different ones now, some leave it closed others open. personal preference of the technician i guess
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 24, 2009, 11:49:31 am

What shaun mentioned as well which sounds about right to is that the intake will block the heat from the engine very well, whereas it doesnt show the real time benefits with the Bonnet up and a fan on it.


....Shouldn't rolling-road runs always be done with the bonnet closed?

Yep, especially with the ITG kit as that's the way it's designed to work (hence the foam on the top of the battery box to help seal the area around the filter).
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 11:51:38 am
It would defiantely work in ITGs favour if it was closed compared to other intakes.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Poverty on October 24, 2009, 11:52:23 am
@poverty dont forget this is k03 not k04, we cant get the same top end results you do. Also differnt scales will make the plot lines look different some times

@RR Ive been to a few different ones now, some leave it closed others open. personal preference of the technician i guess

Yeah forgot that its a k03. But its odd where the power drops off and then spikes back up for a bit and then dies off again. Just wondering why that is?

Any other ITG owners going to the surrey rolling road?
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 11:54:13 am
I mgiht be coming. to that. So we will see the difference a different RR can make.

Ill be the first to say though that i dont think the bluefin is as good as revo. Im yet to drive a revo stage 2+ k03, but I have driven satge 2 revo K03s and thy were better. not by a huge amount but better none the less.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: cuprak1 on October 24, 2009, 12:10:52 pm
Wow  :congrats:

I think I need to get my pump sorted!  :party:

Group Buy Nath?  :grin:

hell yes  :drool:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 12:15:57 pm

....Shouldn't rolling-road runs always be done with the bonnet closed?


Yep, especially with the ITG kit as that's the way it's designed to work (hence the foam on the top of the battery box to help seal the area around the filter).


....Much as I appreciate why that foam block is there to help seal, I just can't help the fact that I absolutely detest its appearance. OK on a race car perhaps - Because everything is just hacked about for purely functional reasons, but not acceptable on a road car IMHO.

ITG Andy, if you're reading this, pleeeeeease persuade ITG's bean-counters to give you the budget to resolve this to the same high standard of industrial design as the rest of your intake. Surely all you need do is to extend the heatshield joining the filter into an L-shape. Unless velcro'd there is a real risk of losing that crude block of foam (while servicing at a dealers for example). Furthermore, doesn't it interfere with quick access to the battery and fuse box? I'm sorry but I'm only giving my very honest opinion and it really spoils your product for me no matter how well it undoubtedly performs.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: cuprak1 on October 24, 2009, 12:25:14 pm
Ive always said thers no real difference between intakes... why spend over 300 quid for a product which can give same performance as one at the fraction of the price?

The itg kit is very nice and fits great but in my opinion is a tad over engineered and easily replicated with silicone and straigh pipes.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 24, 2009, 12:30:27 pm

....Shouldn't rolling-road runs always be done with the bonnet closed?


Yep, especially with the ITG kit as that's the way it's designed to work (hence the foam on the top of the battery box to help seal the area around the filter).


....Much as I appreciate why that foam block is there to help seal, I just can't help the fact that I absolutely detest its appearance. OK on a race car perhaps - Because everything is just hacked about for purely functional reasons, but not acceptable on a road car IMHO.

ITG Andy, if you're reading this, pleeeeeease persuade ITG's bean-counters to give you the budget to resolve this to the same high standard of industrial design as the rest of your intake. Surely all you need do is to extend the heatshield joining the filter into an L-shape. Unless velcro'd there is a real risk of losing that crude block of foam (while servicing at a dealers for example). Furthermore, doesn't it interfere with quick access to the battery and fuse box? I'm sorry but I'm only giving my very honest opinion and it really spoils your product for me no matter how well it undoubtedly performs.

All of us in attendance at the dyno day yesterday had a look conversation about this.

The reason it's made of foam is because it works and has nothing to do with the cost/budget/investment required to come up with something different.

The foam is tucked into the wing so it's really going anyway unless you want it to. The foam on the production kits is cut to size properly and not by Andy on the floor with a stanly knife  :grin: So IMHO it looks completely acceptable and is inkeeping with the rest of the parts of the kit.  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 24, 2009, 12:32:01 pm
Ive always said thers no real difference between intakes... why spend over 300 quid for a product which can give same performance as one at the fraction of the price?

The itg kit is very nice and fits great but in my opinion is a tad over engineered and easily replicated with silicone and straigh pipes.

It's time for you to give it a rest on this now.

Every time something is posted about an intake you either disagree or post a picture of the BSH kit.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: cuprak1 on October 24, 2009, 12:33:22 pm
Ive always said thers no real difference between intakes... why spend over 300 quid for a product which can give same performance as one at the fraction of the price?

The itg kit is very nice and fits great but in my opinion is a tad over engineered and easily replicated with silicone and straigh pipes.

It's time for you to give it a rest on this now.

Every time something is posted about an intake you either disagree or post a picture of the BSH kit.

ive seen no evidence suggesting one intake works better than the other IM JUST TRYING to save people money !!!

 :innocent:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: wigit on October 24, 2009, 12:39:28 pm
steve great on the day comparison figures which we do appreciate and which let the figures do the talking  :happy2:

i remember a similar can of worms elsewhere when i swapped map providers
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Poverty on October 24, 2009, 01:24:56 pm
Ive always said thers no real difference between intakes... why spend over 300 quid for a product which can give same performance as one at the fraction of the price?

The itg kit is very nice and fits great but in my opinion is a tad over engineered and easily replicated with silicone and straigh pipes.

It's time for you to give it a rest on this now.

Every time something is posted about an intake you either disagree or post a picture of the BSH kit.

One cuprak1 gets his pump and is stage2 plus me and him will do a few rolling road sessions and see if there is a difference between his bsh and my ITG  :happy2:

Knowing wayne, hes not trying to be a prick or anything, hes just trying to be helpful  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 01:32:14 pm

....Much as I appreciate why that foam block is there to help seal, I just can't help the fact that I absolutely detest its appearance. OK on a race car perhaps - Because everything is just hacked about for purely functional reasons, but not acceptable on a road car IMHO.

ITG Andy, if you're reading this, pleeeeeease persuade ITG's bean-counters to give you the budget to resolve this to the same high standard of industrial design as the rest of your intake. Surely all you need do is to extend the heatshield joining the filter into an L-shape. Unless velcro'd there is a real risk of losing that crude block of foam (while servicing at a dealers for example). Furthermore, doesn't it interfere with quick access to the battery and fuse box? I'm sorry but I'm only giving my very honest opinion and it really spoils your product for me no matter how well it undoubtedly performs.
 

All of us in attendance at the dyno day yesterday had a look conversation about this.

The reason it's made of foam is because it works and has nothing to do with the cost/budget/investment required to come up with something different.

The foam is tucked into the wing so it's really going anyway unless you want it to. The foam on the production kits is cut to size properly and not by Andy on the floor with a stanly knife  :grin: So IMHO it looks completely acceptable and is inkeeping with the rest of the parts of the kit.  :happy2:


....Good to learn this, Steve :happy2:. Until I see one in real life I can only base my opinions on the posted photos and I haven't seen a pic of a 'finished' foam one yet which looks ok to me.

Looking forward to seeing yours at the next meet we both attend :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 01:33:29 pm
be good to see that. Be interested to see. Im more than happy with what i have now, but i'll always be interested in seeing how other kits performs against it.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 01:36:27 pm

....Much as I appreciate why that foam block is there to help seal, I just can't help the fact that I absolutely detest its appearance. OK on a race car perhaps - Because everything is just hacked about for purely functional reasons, but not acceptable on a road car IMHO.

ITG Andy, if you're reading this, pleeeeeease persuade ITG's bean-counters to give you the budget to resolve this to the same high standard of industrial design as the rest of your intake. Surely all you need do is to extend the heatshield joining the filter into an L-shape. Unless velcro'd there is a real risk of losing that crude block of foam (while servicing at a dealers for example). Furthermore, doesn't it interfere with quick access to the battery and fuse box? I'm sorry but I'm only giving my very honest opinion and it really spoils your product for me no matter how well it undoubtedly performs.
 

All of us in attendance at the dyno day yesterday had a look conversation about this.

The reason it's made of foam is because it works and has nothing to do with the cost/budget/investment required to come up with something different.

The foam is tucked into the wing so it's really going anyway unless you want it to. The foam on the production kits is cut to size properly and not by Andy on the floor with a stanly knife  :grin: So IMHO it looks completely acceptable and is inkeeping with the rest of the parts of the kit.  :happy2:


....Good to learn this, Steve :happy2:. Until I see one in real life I can only base my opinions on the posted photos and I haven't seen a pic of a 'finished' foam one yet which looks ok to me.

Looking forward to seeing yours at the next meet we both attend :happy2:

Its perfect on mine. The foam slots right in under the wing snugly and would need a little tug to pull to get it out In no way does it look cheap IMO. YOu also dont have to have the foam ontop of the battery if you dont want it. Its not a necessity, whereas the main foam heat shield is needed.

If you look at the pic of mine it goes about 3 inches(ish) under the wing and you can see the indent where the bonnet is holding it snugly into position
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: chungster on October 24, 2009, 02:20:39 pm
thats the thing when engineers gets the say on the final product....function over form...not form over function.

the ITG design works and works well. no need to flaf about to satisfy the form over function brigade.

Its not created for show and shine compos...its designed to increase airflow / turbo intake performance. Simples.

for those who want a more pleasing look, i'm sure they can find their own solution (lots of CF i would imagine and gold plated bling perhaps)

for me when it comes to modding, it is ALWAYS about function, and never about form.

Thats my 2p.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 03:02:06 pm

thats the thing when engineers gets the say on the final product....function over form...not form over function.

the ITG design works and works well. no need to flaf about to satisfy the form over function brigade.

Its not created for show and shine compos...its designed to increase airflow / turbo intake performance. Simples.

for those who want a more pleasing look, i'm sure they can find their own solution (lots of CF i would imagine and gold plated bling perhaps)

for me when it comes to modding, it is ALWAYS about function, and never about form.

Thats my 2p.

....I'm not suggesting that function is at all compromised by form and I'm sure we both know that such an intake as this ITG is nowhere near what would satisfy a proper 'show and shiner' and that neither am I a 'show and shiner'. So I find your 'show and shine' reference somewhat unreasonable [but not offensive].

The aim of a good professional industrial/product designer should be to primarily achieve function but to ALSO achieve some semblence of good form. In this case of the ITG, based on photos I have seen so far, the foam block looks like a very amateur afterthought and badly lets down the overall high standard of the rest of the product. Let's be honest - It is an afterthought isn't it - Considered and added somewhat later in the design development. Perhaps Andy could comment.

Look at products designed by Porsche - High standards of function and form very successfully combined. There are many other products which successfully meet this criteria, including some other aftermarket air intakes.

It's not necessarily a good idea for only engineers to be involved in product design and development - A professional product/industrial designer should also be onboard. It's the same reasoning why a company shouldn't only be run by accountants isn't it - But as an accountant you might not agree!

Yes, if I had this ITG I would want to replace that whole heatshield configuration around the filter and it wouldn't necessarily involve carbonfibre (though of course it might if considered a suitable material). My initial thought would be to get hold of a L-shape heatshield component from another intake manufacturer - Lots of them use similar parts to choose from. Or is the foam heatshielding alone really such a scientifically proven important element in the undoubted great performance of this product?

Now I don't wish to take this thread off topic to the extent of long debates about a block of foam, but I do need to respond to your post though I fully appreciate you have a different point of view.

:drinking:

ADDENDA: - Basically I see this product as still unfinished. Having established by the addition of a block of foam that sealing is a functional benefit, the ITG design team should then address the best way of integrating it into the design of heatshielding that area as a whole. The result would then be far more satisfactory on several levels, both aesthetically and in practical terms. Mk2 version?
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 03:48:06 pm
im not so sure. I think if the foam was replaced with something else....say plastic it wouldnt look so good. the foam serves a good purpose. To seal all the gaps with another material it would have to be very jagged and IMO opinion it would be too hard to make and be cost effective at the same time.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi756.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx202%2Fsimonskerton%2Fcar%2520pics%2Fd87c13581.jpg&hash=8cb16429418a11e37a06ffc7da073e8f7d3deb46)

That looks pretty well finished to me. Id love to see a better looking way of closing the gaps off as efficiently as that. IMO the only option available that i think looks more ashthetically pleasing is the twintake which solves the issue by sealing the intakes in a housing. (incidently andy@ITG wanted to do that with some huuuge carbon scoop things like he did in the audi TT intake but the TT has a smaller battery and more space)
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: chungster on October 24, 2009, 04:00:47 pm
RR....

if a company was run by accountants, there'd be no sales and the company wouldn't exist really as no sales = no income = no jobs lol. I get reminded of that everyday at work (so i have to be nicer to sales basically)

i totally understand your view point, but i'm just putting the point across from the other end of the stick where there are consumers who buy a product for what it does and the "finished" look is further down on the list of "essential requirements".

That extra bit of foam block, if removed entirely, would actually make it all tidier and more on the "finished" side of things.

But ITG is just catering for those who want a better seal of the intake from engine heat.  There are plenty of CAI's out there that don't have a seal at all and yet they are "finished".

If this intake provides excellent VFM and BHP per £££'s, then I'd be getting one with no hesitation whatsoever.
Of course everyone is different, hence why there is a wide range of CAI's for people to choose from.  :drinking:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 04:06:38 pm

im not so sure. I think if the foam was replaced with something else....say plastic it wouldnt look so good. the foam serves a good purpose. To seal all the gaps with another material it would have to be very jagged and IMO opinion it would be too hard to make and be cost effective at the same time.

That looks pretty well finished to me. Id love to see a better looking way of closing the gaps off as efficiently as that. IMO the only option available that i think looks more ashthetically pleasing is the twintake which solves the issue by sealing the intakes in a housing. (incidently andy@ITG wanted to do that with some huuuge carbon scoop things like he did in the audi TT intake but the TT has a smaller battery and more space)


....Sorry, Si - My criticisms are referring mostly to the foam block atop the battery and fuse box and how it is 'extra' to and not integrated with the heatshield you posted a pic of.  

I've been having long email chats with Andy for a while about what's on the Audi TT and its possible adaptation to a GTI. It would mean either relocating oem battery (not a practical option in a road car) or changing to a race battery which then wouldn't reliably power what's needed in a road car.  

:happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 04:16:56 pm
RR....

i totally understand your view point, but i'm just putting the point across from the other end of the stick where there are consumers who buy a product for what it does and the "finished" look is further down on the list of "essential requirements".

That extra bit of foam block, if removed entirely, would actually make it all tidier and more on the "finished" side of things.

But ITG is just catering for those who want a better seal of the intake from engine heat.  There are plenty of CAI's out there that don't have a seal at all and yet they are "finished".

If this intake provides excellent VFM and BHP per £££'s, then I'd be getting one with no hesitation whatsoever.
Of course everyone is different, hence why there is a wide range of CAI's for people to choose from.  :drinking:


....Absolutely agreed :drinking:

I am being very critical but if no-one who thinks as I do, gives any feedback, then ITG are not to know. [Robin, but no-one thinks as you do! I hear someone say]

In posting criticism of anything one has to be very careful to ensure that one's words reflect a sincere and honest criticism which has constructive intentions and which isn't insulting.

I definitely have this ITG intake on my shortlist and I wouldn't be bothering with that extra block of foam!! However, due to being Revo2 and Milltek TBE I would need to upgrade to an aftermarket HPFP (or turn down my Boost to 4) and I would only currently consider the APR (megabucks). Do I really want more power? - Not really, the power balance is perfect and she handles like a dream. I'm nothing like as fast as the modded Ed30 boyz but that doesn't bother me.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 04:25:57 pm

im not so sure. I think if the foam was replaced with something else....say plastic it wouldnt look so good. the foam serves a good purpose. To seal all the gaps with another material it would have to be very jagged and IMO opinion it would be too hard to make and be cost effective at the same time.

That looks pretty well finished to me. Id love to see a better looking way of closing the gaps off as efficiently as that. IMO the only option available that i think looks more ashthetically pleasing is the twintake which solves the issue by sealing the intakes in a housing. (incidently andy@ITG wanted to do that with some huuuge carbon scoop things like he did in the audi TT intake but the TT has a smaller battery and more space)


....Sorry, Si - My criticisms are referring mostly to the foam block atop the battery and fuse box and how it is 'extra' to and not integrated with the heatshield you posted a pic of.  

I've been having long email chats with Andy for a while about what's on the Audi TT and its possible adaptation to a GTI. It would mean either relocating oem battery (not a practical option in a road car) or changing to a race battery which then wouldn't reliably power what's needed in a road car.  

:happy2:
you could put in the TT battery as a direct Oem replacment, but IMO opinion bang for buck and aesthetics the twintake would be the better option i reckon.

As for the bit ontop of the battery. you could just take that out of the equation. Noother intake heatshield or not has had this before so it wont be that much of a loss. Id think the air coming in gfrom the grill should push most of the hot air away from the top of the battery area anyway
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 04:30:05 pm
RR....

i totally understand your view point, but i'm just putting the point across from the other end of the stick where there are consumers who buy a product for what it does and the "finished" look is further down on the list of "essential requirements".

That extra bit of foam block, if removed entirely, would actually make it all tidier and more on the "finished" side of things.

But ITG is just catering for those who want a better seal of the intake from engine heat.  There are plenty of CAI's out there that don't have a seal at all and yet they are "finished".

If this intake provides excellent VFM and BHP per £££'s, then I'd be getting one with no hesitation whatsoever.
Of course everyone is different, hence why there is a wide range of CAI's for people to choose from.  :drinking:


....Absolutely agreed :drinking:

I am being very critical but if no-one who thinks as I do, gives any feedback, then ITG are not to know. [Robin, but no-one thinks as you do! I hear someone say]

In posting criticism of anything one has to be very careful to ensure that one's words reflect a sincere and honest criticism which has constructive intentions and which isn't insulting.

I definitely have this ITG intake on my shortlist and I wouldn't be bothering with that extra block of foam!! However, due to being Revo2 and Milltek TBE I would need to upgrade to an aftermarket HPFP (or turn down my Boost to 4) and I would only currently consider the APR (megabucks). Do I really want more power? - Not really, the power balance is perfect and she handles like a dream. I'm nothing like as fast as the modded Ed30 boyz but that doesn't bother me.

all the guys on k03 that i know who have had the revo stage 2+ have likened it to the equivalent of going from std to stage 1 again. your car is very very well setup to utilise the extra torque and power from stage 2+ code. wouldnt go with the APR pump personally. Autotech or KMD internals are the way forward. 1 hours labour, and 300 queen quids for the intenals vs 700 queen quids for the apr pump
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 04:38:39 pm

you could put in the TT battery as a direct Oem replacment, but IMO opinion bang for buck and aesthetics the twintake would be the better option i reckon.

As for the bit ontop of the battery. you could just take that out of the equation. Noother intake heatshield or not has had this before so it wont be that much of a loss. Id think the air coming in gfrom the grill should push most of the hot air away from the top of the battery area anyway


....Agreed, the TT battery (assuming it's smaller) wouldn't be worth it and might even open another can of worms. Personally I'm not so keen on the huge pythonesque Forge Twintake in spite of much lower cost.

I'd be inclined to only dump the 'atop battery' foam block seal which offends my eyes. But also add an air inlet and hose from the lower centre radiator grill or via my carbon foglight DRL panel. The idea being to flow more air over the ITG filter which would also serve to push hot air away as you suggest. In fact, this is suddenly a very attractive idea! Especially as this is available: -

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carbonmods.co.uk%2FImages%2Fproducts%2Fmedium%2Finduction-ring.jpg&hash=69660f0caf72013573d6004214ada6cfe4a1df79)
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 04:42:18 pm
that would work perfectly, by creating a high pressure area around the filter it would remove the chance of hot air entering the filter area via the battery box
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 04:50:28 pm

..due to being Revo2 and Milltek TBE I would need to upgrade to an aftermarket HPFP (or turn down my Boost to 4) and I would only currently consider the APR (megabucks).


all the guys on k03 that i know who have had the revo stage 2+ have likened it to the equivalent of going from std to stage 1 again. your car is very very well setup to utilise the extra torque and power from stage 2+ code. wouldnt go with the APR pump personally. Autotech or KMD internals are the way forward. 1 hours labour, and 300 queen quids for the intenals vs 700 queen quids for the apr pump


....I'm not wishing to take this thread off topic too much but there are strong reasons why I would prefer the APR pump in spite of the extra cost. It's something which I have already looked into and had advice from someone whose opinions I take great notice of. Revo 2+ code is also going to increase stresses on my K03 FSI engine - Not dangerous stresses but just that everything will get pushed that much harder. I want longevity.

:happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 24, 2009, 04:54:33 pm
One point to note, the TT's battery is in the boot already, hence the extra space under the bonnet for a different ITG kit  :smiley:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 04:54:51 pm

that would work perfectly, by creating a high pressure area around the filter it would remove the chance of hot air entering the filter area via the battery box


....It would make the car look pretty cool too. You know how much I love eye-candy. Now that would be function and form! :jumpmove:

But I told myself earlier in this thread that I didn't need more power!! :evilgrin:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 04:55:43 pm

One point to note, the TT's battery is in the boot already, hence the extra space under the bonnet for a different ITG kit  :smiley:


..... :laugh: A very important and very fundamental point! :drinking:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: chungster on October 24, 2009, 05:20:35 pm
Stevep....

Have you done a cold air feed for the ITG, thru the inner wing etc??

Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 05:38:10 pm
im going to pop outmy fog lights so as they are directly below the intake So might get away with not even requiring ducting for the minute.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 24, 2009, 05:40:41 pm
Stevep....

Have you done a cold air feed for the ITG, thru the inner wing etc??



nope not yet but I will be workingbon something for the future  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Oli on October 24, 2009, 07:14:42 pm
Interesting results there. I would like a magazine to get one car, all the different intakes and a RR, and finally get some definative results for us. I have asked APS numerous times on this subject, even as recently as two weeks ago when my car was there, and they still swear by the carbonspeed intake. Ed has also mentioned he has done some comparisson tests between other intakes, and the carbonspeed came out on top(Although this was before the ITG intake came out). I will see if he can mail me his findings.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 07:49:19 pm
^^^^
What's a Carbonspeed intake, Oli? Surely not the same as the Carbonio?

Er? :confused: & :surprised: - It's a replica Carbonio, I just Google'd it. Ed's not the first to say that but I don't quite understand how a ram+flat panel intake can deliver more gains than a high-flow tubular system.

Perhaps I'll be keeping my Carbonio!
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 07:51:45 pm
was just thinking that myself. \i had the carbonio and pipercross originally and it was very marginal the difference
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Oli on October 24, 2009, 08:06:01 pm
I agree, but I have asked numerous times!
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Greeners on October 24, 2009, 08:45:38 pm
^^^^
What's a Carbonspeed intake, Oli? Surely not the same as the Carbonio?

Er? :confused: & :surprised: - It's a replica Carbonio, I just Google'd it. Ed's not the first to say that but I don't quite understand how a ram+flat panel intake can deliver more gains than a high-flow tubular system.

Perhaps I'll be keeping my Carbonio!

In fairness Robin thats all I had up until I had my ITG and my car always achieved superb numbers!  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 08:54:50 pm
^^^^
What's a Carbonspeed intake, Oli? Surely not the same as the Carbonio?

Er? :confused: & :surprised: - It's a replica Carbonio, I just Google'd it. Ed's not the first to say that but I don't quite understand how a ram+flat panel intake can deliver more gains than a high-flow tubular system.

Perhaps I'll be keeping my Carbonio!

In fairness Robin thats all I had up until I had my ITG and my car always achieved superb numbers!  :happy2:


....Yet so many people, especially across the pond, trash the Carbonio/Carbonspeed as merely being expensive carbonfibre eye-candy. When it first came out (I had one of the first in the UK) Revo were singing its praises. All it is is a more efficient than oem ram trumpet and a Pipercross flat panel filter in the stock box.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 09:02:12 pm
I thought the difference was pretty negligable. more throttle response i think bt nothing in comarison to a proper induction kit.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 09:10:15 pm

I thought the difference was pretty negligable. more throttle response i think bt nothing in comarison to a proper induction kit.


....It didn't feel much different from stock except throttle response but I didn't have a remap yet at the time.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 24, 2009, 10:24:58 pm

I thought the difference was pretty negligable. more throttle response i think bt nothing in comarison to a proper induction kit.


....It didn't feel much different from stock except throttle response but I didn't have a remap yet at the time.

I also had a carbonio copy and high flow panel and it produced strong results (for example the max airflow I recorded in this config was 246-248g/s) but with the ITG this is up to 261g/s peak.

One thing I do believe is the gains are bigger on the K04 cars than the K03.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 24, 2009, 11:07:59 pm

One thing I do believe is the gains are bigger on the K04 cars than the K03.


....I think this is also true for a lot of mods. The K04 cars deliver much more potential. If I was buying at a time the Ed30 was available I would have gone for one. But no regrets.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Hurdy on October 24, 2009, 11:17:07 pm
It's tough to give a definitive answer to which system would be best for a K03 and a K04. I had the Carbonio before the EVOM's intake and the EVOM's definitely gave both better throttle response and ultimate power at the top end. The sacrifice seemed to me to be a little loss of torque at the lower end (as I think I remember saying in my build thread!). I can afford to lose a little torque though :grin:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Poppa Dom on October 24, 2009, 11:55:09 pm
It would be interesting to compare other mass airflow readings. I am surprised that the ITG is only giving mid 260's. I thought it might have been higher?
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: CocoPops on October 25, 2009, 09:27:13 am
If I was to do some logging... what would I need to do.
Can someone write me a noddy guide and I will report some figures.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 25, 2009, 09:28:39 am
^^^^ - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5026.0
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: warren_cox on October 25, 2009, 09:44:24 am
I'm always interested to read these threads.

The people who have bought the product present the pro's and perceived benefits, the people with something else / nothing come back with the knocks and 'you shoulda bought summat else'!!

Being one of the K04 camp running this it has made an enormous difference and removed a very noticeable flat spot in the rev range. I think it has really unlocked the potential of Revo Stage 2+ and KMD pump internals. I think for the price it offers a very well conceived design and mix of materials which major on engineering and not FUSS. As I'm an objective modifier I want it to work, period. It's what it delivers on the road, not with bonnet opened parked up that matters to me.

And on the note of pump internals, before anyone starts banging on about KMD/Autotech/APR, the APR has had faults as have the others. Don't feel you have to take the 'premium' route as you will gain nothing more. It proves yet again, that the highest price products DON'T necessarily deliver the best solution (Milltek have proved that in very recent times that their pipework is regularly reported to crack - thank the lord they have a good replacement scheme).

I think having read this post I am going to have a fiddle with the SPS settings, and back the boost off a bit. May get me a bit more sustainable performance. That said, the car may not be with me that much longer as I have gone and put my name down for a used Cayman S at the local Porsche centre this weekend (yes, a poor mans 911), but the heady mix of S3, Revo Stage 2+ / ITG / K04 and KMD fuel pump has been an absolute blast.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 25, 2009, 10:34:11 am

I'm always interested to read these threads.

The people who have bought the product present the pro's and perceived benefits, the people with something else / nothing come back with the knocks and 'you shoulda bought summat else'!!


....This is so often true but not so much in this thread. People are naturally very interested in the ITG solution and of course want to make comparisons - Usually as objectively and equally as possible. I for one, have high expectations of the performance of the ITG and include it on my list of possible mods.

 

As I'm an objective modifier I want it to work, period. It's what it delivers on the road, not with bonnet opened parked up that matters to me.


....As I posted earlier, I think the best products are those which look professionally designed AS WELL AS being functional - I hate the attitude of who cares what it looks like. Apart from routine maintenance I only ever open my bonnet when asked to, but I do get asked. Anyone who has read this whole thread properly will know my opinion on the foam block! But I'm not knocking the whole ITG product - Quite the contrary.

Let's not sidetrack this thread by talking about the APR HPFP, but could you post or PM me just a link to where such faults are discussed - Thanks :drinking:

I think the only way to make true comparisons between all the air intakes on the market is to do so on just one car on one rolling-road and one laptop on the road on the same route. There are just too many influencing factors otherwise it seems. As suggested, a magazine feature could sort that out.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 30, 2009, 04:47:43 pm
Forgot to post this up from latest weeks session -

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2FITGactualBoost.jpg&hash=6b568001dd80c41c79b1f76c274646b99e8372ef)

Thanks to Carl from Revo for sorting out the graph  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: MAT ED30 on October 30, 2009, 04:50:01 pm
i so want one   :rolleye:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: SteveP on October 30, 2009, 04:53:35 pm
^^^ B8-T5-F6  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RobH on October 30, 2009, 05:50:42 pm
i so want one   :rolleye:

you'd deffinetly need a hpfp with the itg intake imo.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 30, 2009, 06:08:04 pm

i so want one   :rolleye:


you'd deffinetly need a hpfp with the itg intake imo.


....Not necessarily - If you've got a Revo remap you could turn down the Boost setting and be fine on the stock fuel pump without fuel cut issues, I'm reliably advised. You could then get a HPFP later if you wanted. It's like 3+7=10 is the same as 4+6=10; Just a different balance.

If I get a high-flow tubular intake I'll just turn down my boost until I've got enough dosh for the APR HPFP but then I might just stay at Stage2 instead of 2+ and any extra stresses and not bother with the HPFP.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RobH on October 30, 2009, 06:17:30 pm

i so want one   :rolleye:


you'd deffinetly need a hpfp with the itg intake imo.


....Not necessarily - If you've got a Revo remap you could turn down the Boost setting and be fine on the stock fuel pump without fuel cut issues, I'm reliably advised. You could then get a HPFP later if you wanted. It's like 3+7=10 is the same as 4+6=10; Just a different balance.

If I get a high-flow tubular intake I'll just turn down my boost until I've got enough dosh for the APR HPFP but then I might just stay at Stage2 instead of 2+ and any extra stresses and not bother with the HPFP.

Having been through the same prosess as you say (except the other way round hpfp first) you wouldnt be getting the best out of the package as a whole if you got one or the other. Both the oem intake and fuel pump are pretty naff as you probably know.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on October 30, 2009, 06:35:59 pm

Having been through the same prosess as you say (except the other way round hpfp first) you wouldnt be getting the best out of the package as a whole if you got one or the other. Both the oem intake and fuel pump are pretty naff as you probably know.


....I'm running Revo2 with a Carbonio and ITG panel filter and oem fuel pump (K03 GTI). You're right perhaps if you mean I wouldn't get the maximum out of the package but at what cost to engine longevity?

But we digress off-topic perhaps (my fault!).

:happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: MAT ED30 on October 30, 2009, 06:37:28 pm
it was revo who told me while i was there the other just to get the intake as i dont want the pump yet  :P and just up my boost as i have an ic on mine
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on November 30, 2009, 07:56:12 pm

Quick ITG quesiton!!

The extra pipe / hose that's on the KO4...  Does the ITG come with a fitment for it or do I retain the one that was on my dbilas???
Someone comming to collect it soon...  ITG here this week  :party:

Will post a pic in a min of said connector
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: gazbutS3 on November 30, 2009, 07:58:09 pm
ITG K04 kit has everything you need pal :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RobH on November 30, 2009, 08:10:49 pm
you dont need to modify the ITG Mike providing you bought the correct version :signLOL:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: pako88268 on November 30, 2009, 10:17:06 pm

Quick ITG quesiton!!

The extra pipe / hose that's on the KO4...  Does the ITG come with a fitment for it or do I retain the one that was on my dbilas???
Someone comming to collect it soon...  ITG here this week  :party:

Will post a pic in a min of said connector

Thanks for the intake =) the someone was me xD ...

cheers ^^
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 01, 2009, 07:15:22 am

Quick ITG quesiton!!

The extra pipe / hose that's on the KO4...  Does the ITG come with a fitment for it or do I retain the one that was on my dbilas???
Someone comming to collect it soon...  ITG here this week  :party:

Will post a pic in a min of said connector

Thanks for the intake =) the someone was me xD ...

cheers ^^

No worries man  :happy2:    Your Golf was Gorgeous!!  :drool:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 02, 2009, 03:12:33 pm

Woo hoo

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fo56%2F2968Gsi_Mike%2FDSC00553.jpg&hash=ad575c9630bd3f24f6099265ac88cbdd7125f157)  :party:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: gazbutS3 on December 02, 2009, 03:13:51 pm
nice 1, you got 2 heatshields :smiley:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 02, 2009, 03:15:49 pm

Quick ITG quesiton!!

The extra pipe / hose that's on the KO4...  Does the ITG come with a fitment for it or do I retain the one that was on my dbilas???
Someone comming to collect it soon...  ITG here this week  :party:

Will post a pic in a min of said connector

Thanks for the intake =) the someone was me xD ...

cheers ^^

If you send me your address I will post you the reciepts for the intake, heat shield and samco hose mate  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Greeners on December 02, 2009, 03:27:20 pm
Quick tip for you mike, after you've oiled the filter leave it in the plastic bag and fit it with the bag on it. This way you won't get oil all over the place when your squeezing it into place!  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: RedRobin on December 02, 2009, 03:53:34 pm

Quick tip for you mike, after you've oiled the filter leave it in the plastic bag and fit it with the bag on it. This way you won't get oil all over the place when your squeezing it into place!  :happy2:


.... :surprised: I didn't realise it was an oiled filter. I hope it's less oiled than the ITG panel filter in my stock box.

Excellent tip, Nath  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 02, 2009, 07:42:16 pm

Massive thanks to Sy for perservering with me with next to no light and in the rain!  :happy2:

First impressions, much noisier, sucky whooosh!  Feels less aggressive / less powerful than it was before, Im hoping it is adapting to the new pipework / filter..

Watch this space
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: robern2 on December 02, 2009, 07:48:00 pm
I'm surprised at the initial experience, I had a panel filter prior to stage2+, the difference was like night and day when I moved to the ITG. Hopefully things improve.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on December 02, 2009, 08:44:40 pm
its cos your car is slow. give it some more miles to adapt.

dont forget though you were never going to get huge gains coming from the dbilias. You could feel the hesitation in the car on the drive to shell garage. mine was like that for about 50miles or so.

sounds awesome in the leon. it was hugely louder than mine, might be cos your exhaust is soo quiet :P


Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 02, 2009, 09:01:01 pm
its cos your car is slow. give it some more miles to adapt.

dont forget though you were never going to get huge gains coming from the dbilias. You could feel the hesitation in the car on the drive to shell garage. mine was like that for about 50miles or so.

sounds awesome in the leon. it was hugely louder than mine, might be cos your exhaust is soo quiet :P




Slow hahahahahahaha

In all fairness your new exhaust sounds mint especially with the ITG
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: singh123 on December 02, 2009, 09:28:17 pm
I'm surprised at the initial experience, I had a panel filter prior to stage2+, the difference was like night and day when I moved to the ITG. Hopefully things improve.

Yeah i noticed a vast improvement in the cars performance once the ITG intake was fitted
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on December 02, 2009, 09:44:04 pm
his car was fully adapted to use his dbilias intake. if it then has alot more air entering the engine due to the ITG, it will mess up the AFR until the car readjusts. mine was really bad when i did mine, but once it adapted it felt alot better

his gains wont be as noticable as yours coming from a panel filter to an intake
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 02, 2009, 09:47:37 pm
I'm surprised at the initial experience, I had a panel filter prior to stage2+, the difference was like night and day when I moved to the ITG. Hopefully things improve.

Yeah i noticed a vast improvement in the cars performance once the ITG intake was fitted

From std airbox though?  I come from Dbilas...
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: cuprak1 on December 03, 2009, 01:58:01 pm
vag com it and clear the adaption settings rather than forcing it to re learn using diables values in place.?
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Hedge on December 03, 2009, 02:17:34 pm
I don't think he has it.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: singh123 on December 03, 2009, 03:29:39 pm
I'm surprised at the initial experience, I had a panel filter prior to stage2+, the difference was like night and day when I moved to the ITG. Hopefully things improve.

Yeah i noticed a vast improvement in the cars performance once the ITG intake was fitted

From std airbox though?  I come from Dbilas...

Yes Mike i came from a standard air bo, makes sense now why i noticed a vast improvment :)
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 03, 2009, 04:22:25 pm
vag com it and clear the adaption settings rather than forcing it to re learn using diables values in place.?

I know someone at home that has it, is it simple to do?
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: bacillus on December 03, 2009, 04:26:52 pm
I don't think he has it.

You can also temporarily disconnect the battery to clear the stored adaption data.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: animal on December 03, 2009, 04:27:22 pm
its cos your car is slow. give it some more miles to adapt.

dont forget though you were never going to get huge gains coming from the dbilias. You could feel the hesitation in the car on the drive to shell garage. mine was like that for about 50miles or so.

sounds awesome in the leon. it was hugely louder than mine, might be cos your exhaust is soo quiet :P




It shouldn't take 50 miles to adapt!
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Hedge on December 03, 2009, 04:29:00 pm
I don't think he has it.

You can also temporarily disconnect the battery to clear the stored adaption data.

If you do that with Revo you will end up with it reverting to stock settings.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 03, 2009, 04:34:24 pm
I don't think he has it.

You can also temporarily disconnect the battery to clear the stored adaption data.

If you do that with Revo you will end up with it reverting to stock settings.

Last time i had the battery off it just locked me in the map i was in.... just had to enter pin code to unlock it...

Might try unhooking the battery then.  Still a bit apprehensive about dropping the map though
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: cuprak1 on December 03, 2009, 04:47:53 pm
No dont take battery off !

Its piss easy, well looked easy when dangb done it for me heheh

just a few clicks and the car feels like new.. literally !
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 03, 2009, 05:00:20 pm
No dont take battery off !

Its piss easy, well looked easy when dangb done it for me heheh

just a few clicks and the car feels like new.. literally !

Any chance you can elaborate haha...
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: bacillus on December 03, 2009, 05:05:10 pm
Just clear the engine ecu stored fault codes even though there aren't any...   :smiley:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: animal on December 03, 2009, 05:09:09 pm
Just clear the engine ecu stored fault codes even though there aren't any...   :smiley:

Resets other variables such as fuel trim and timing back to default as well.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 03, 2009, 05:10:56 pm
Just clear the engine ecu stored fault codes even though there aren't any...   :smiley:

I can do that with my Remap  :smiley:
Just clear the engine ecu stored fault codes even though there aren't any...   :smiley:

Resets other variables such as fuel trim and timing back to default as well.

Cant do that though :'(
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 03, 2009, 05:13:31 pm
Just clear the engine ecu stored fault codes even though there aren't any...   :smiley:

Resets other variables such as fuel trim and timing back to default as well.

How long would it take to 're adapt'?
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: bacillus on December 03, 2009, 05:21:59 pm
Seeing that he's changed his intake, clearing the fuel trim values should speed up adaption to the intake.

I'm confused as to why you think clearing the ecu fault codes will put the timing back to default, could you elaborates as I've never experience this on clearing my faults.

Mike for adaption, I would think about 50-100 miles.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 03, 2009, 05:34:10 pm

Mike for adaption, I would think about 50-100 miles.


its cos your car is slow. give it some more miles to adapt.

dont forget though you were never going to get huge gains coming from the dbilias. You could feel the hesitation in the car on the drive to shell garage. mine was like that for about 50miles or so.

sounds awesome in the leon. it was hugely louder than mine, might be cos your exhaust is soo quiet :P


It shouldn't take 50 miles to adapt!

Well whatever it is I have a 200 mile drive home tomorow  :driver:  :party:

Gonna see if I have time to get my friend to reset the fuel trim values over the weekend too  :smiley:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on December 03, 2009, 06:35:32 pm
i wouldnt bother with that to be honest mate. by the time you get home tomorrow, it'll be fully adapted.

@animal. im not saying it should take 50 miles or so, but mine did and so mikes could take it.
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Joesoap on October 18, 2013, 03:16:50 pm
some good info there  :happy2:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: bacillus on October 18, 2013, 03:30:12 pm
some good info there  :happy2:

Holy thread resurrection...  :scared:
Title: Re: ITG Intake vs. OEM Airbox on Revo Stage 2+
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 18, 2013, 03:31:26 pm
some good info there  :happy2:

Holy thread resurrection...  :scared:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fk120%2Fclarkz71%2FOldThreadAlert.jpg&hash=21edce554b0db50f6661ed9093bc18df78deede5)