MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: cuprak1 on October 24, 2009, 02:59:10 pm

Title: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: cuprak1 on October 24, 2009, 02:59:10 pm
are these bigger than the s3 injectors?

i think the tt rs is 350 bhp standard. My mechanic at audi suggested wacking some uprated injectos into mine and its got me thinking.

any one know?
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 03:18:57 pm
would it be a case of just sticking them in or would you need to have your map adjusted on a RR to make the most of them
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: cuprak1 on October 24, 2009, 03:38:43 pm
would it be a case of just sticking them in or would you need to have your map adjusted on a RR to make the most of them

would need mappage most certainly! but a worth while upgrade along with the fuel pump.
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 03:53:40 pm
might pay to check the part numbers to make sure they are definately different to the S3 injectors, and find out the spec first, to see hwta their flow rate is in comparison to S3, RS4 injectors
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: jonnyc on October 24, 2009, 04:23:11 pm
Hey..

Unless your running a bigger turbo then upgrading to a larger injector is pointless.. We were running the KO4 on the Golf flat out, 98.9% duty cycle on the wastegate, and there was still plenty of headroom in the standard injectors.. Ed30 injectors are the same as S3 as I'm sure your aware..

Once you go larger on the turbo then you will need a larger injector than the S3 item, I'm using the RS4 injectors on mine, as are lots of others without problems.. They have been ran up to 510WHP on a GTI in the US so they can support high power levels for sure..

I'm not sure about the TT-RS injectors, they could well be a good option, but it depends if the spray patturn and fitment into the head is the same as the S3 / RS4 injectors weather they will be a viable option..

Hope that helps you out a bit!
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: cuprak1 on October 24, 2009, 07:33:47 pm
Hey..

Unless your running a bigger turbo then upgrading to a larger injector is pointless.. We were running the KO4 on the Golf flat out, 98.9% duty cycle on the wastegate, and there was still plenty of headroom in the standard injectors.. Ed30 injectors are the same as S3 as I'm sure your aware..

Once you go larger on the turbo then you will need a larger injector than the S3 item, I'm using the RS4 injectors on mine, as are lots of others without problems.. They have been ran up to 510WHP on a GTI in the US so they can support high power levels for sure..

I'm not sure about the TT-RS injectors, they could well be a good option, but it depends if the spray patturn and fitment into the head is the same as the S3 / RS4 injectors weather they will be a viable option..

Hope that helps you out a bit!

Thats perfect cheers

Im was certain that the k04 ed 30 and cupra had different injectors to the s3 ? or did all k04 cars have the same injectors?
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: jonnyc on October 24, 2009, 07:37:50 pm
Thats perfect cheers

Im was certain that the k04 ed 30 and cupra had different injectors to the s3 ? or did all k04 cars have the same injectors?

No probs.. Yeah all the K04 FSI cars are have exactly the same injectors..
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: cuprak1 on October 24, 2009, 08:33:12 pm
Thats perfect cheers

Im was certain that the k04 ed 30 and cupra had different injectors to the s3 ? or did all k04 cars have the same injectors?

No probs.. Yeah all the K04 FSI cars are have exactly the same injectors..

hmmm off topic then but what would be the main differences between edition 30s and s3s? other than the 4x4 system? i thought one of the main differences were injectors
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 24, 2009, 08:52:36 pm
Intercooler is definately differnt think cams are as well. and cams were different.

I know bluefin do a stage 4 for k03 car which requires S3 cams
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: Hurdy on October 24, 2009, 11:33:33 pm
The S3 does have a different intercooler and cams. The cams are slightly more agressive on the S3 than the ED30. The intercooler has welded cast ends on the S3 wheras they are plastic ends on the ED30. The intercooler on the S3 also has a larger volume than the ED30 one.

As for the injectors...I agree with JonnyC. JBS used my ED30 as a testbed for their phase 2+ map and in this they tried uprated injectors. They made zero difference in the max power or anywhere on the power/torque mapping. The limiting factor was purely the K04 air flow capability. :smiley:
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: cuprak1 on October 25, 2009, 09:11:08 pm
Ahh cool

well i have the s3 cooler on mine already, and i have a spare s3 camshaft ! i didnt think it was actually any different.. might get it put in there...
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: Hurdy on October 25, 2009, 11:43:37 pm
Ahh cool

well i have the s3 cooler on mine already, and i have a spare s3 camshaft ! i didnt think it was actually any different.. might get it put in there...

The camshafts are different....the CRANKSHAFT is the same.
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 19, 2010, 11:44:26 am
S3 pistons are also uprated over Ed30 / Cupra.  Made of a different (stronger) alloy - to cope with increased combustion chamber temps and pressures.
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: KRL on October 19, 2010, 12:02:00 pm
S3 pistons are also uprated over Ed30 / Cupra.  Made of a different (stronger) alloy - to cope with increased combustion chamber temps and pressures.

I think the S3 runs a different compression ratio to the ED30 as well iirc.
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: vRSAlex on October 19, 2010, 02:25:52 pm
They also run a larger wrist pin than the K03 engined cars.

RS4 injectors run around 15% more than the S3/ED30/Cupra injectors.  The main reason the RS4 injectors were used in the first place was due to the S3 ones not being available in the US as they dont have the S3.  They had to wait for the TTS to come out over there.  The only issue with the RS4 injectors is the spray pattern isnt perfect, but they still run ok and start up is ok too.
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 19, 2010, 10:43:53 pm
S3 pistons are also uprated over Ed30 / Cupra.  Made of a different (stronger) alloy - to cope with increased combustion chamber temps and pressures.

I think the S3 runs a different compression ratio to the ED30 as well iirc.
Yup, slightly higher.  Which also adds to increased combustion chamber temps.

But I also recall that the S3 runs about a quarter bar (or was it 2psi) lower boost than other K04s such as the Eddy & Cupra - to offset the increased compression ratio.
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 19, 2010, 10:48:02 pm
They also run a larger wrist pin than the K03 engined cars.
Is this a yankie forum? :booty:  Stick to the Queens English - its a gudgeon pin! :P

RS4 injectors run around 15% more than the S3/ED30/Cupra injectors.  The main reason the RS4 injectors were used in the first place was due to the S3 ones not being available in the US as they dont have the S3.  They had to wait for the TTS to come out over there.  The only issue with the RS4 injectors is the spray pattern isnt perfect, but they still run ok and start up is ok too.
Oi - whadya mean the RS4 injector spray pattern isn't perfect?  Don't you go dissin my ride, dude!  :evilgrin:

Seriously, whats wrong with them?  Is it that the RS4 injector pattern doesn't suit the combustion chamber design of the 2.0 TFSI? :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: KRL on October 20, 2010, 10:20:10 am
Seriously, whats wrong with them?  Is it that the RS4 injector pattern doesn't suit the combustion chamber design of the 2.0 TFSI? :popcornsoda:

The RS4 injectors spray at an angle:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fawe-tuning.com%2Fmedia%2Fproducts%2Fawe%2Fmk5_k04%2Ffueling%2FFSI_injectors_comparo.jpg&hash=c677c40b2e9a0bf407f85ad6651d05f60c6463d4)

Some people suggest this can lead to starting and part throttle issues.
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: vRSAlex on October 20, 2010, 11:34:22 am
They also run a larger wrist pin than the K03 engined cars.
Is this a yankie forum? :booty:  Stick to the Queens English - its a gudgeon pin! :P

Wrist is easier so spell  :fighting2:  :booty:

RS4 injectors run around 15% more than the S3/ED30/Cupra injectors.  The main reason the RS4 injectors were used in the first place was due to the S3 ones not being available in the US as they dont have the S3.  They had to wait for the TTS to come out over there.  The only issue with the RS4 injectors is the spray pattern isnt perfect, but they still run ok and start up is ok too.
Oi - whadya mean the RS4 injector spray pattern isn't perfect?  Don't you go dissin my ride, dude!  :evilgrin:

Seriously, whats wrong with them?  Is it that the RS4 injector pattern doesn't suit the combustion chamber design of the 2.0 TFSI? :popcornsoda:

I am sort of dissin your ride  :love:

As KRL has pointed out with the perfect picture.  They are not 100% suited to the 2.0 FSi combustion chamber design.  Looks like there is less overall spray to help with the air to fuel mixing?
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 20, 2010, 12:26:37 pm
Seriously, whats wrong with them?  Is it that the RS4 injector pattern doesn't suit the combustion chamber design of the 2.0 TFSI? :popcornsoda:

The RS4 injectors spray at an angle:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fawe-tuning.com%2Fmedia%2Fproducts%2Fawe%2Fmk5_k04%2Ffueling%2FFSI_injectors_comparo.jpg&hash=c677c40b2e9a0bf407f85ad6651d05f60c6463d4)

Some people suggest this can lead to starting and part throttle issues.
Thanks - very interesting.  Just goes to show the subtle differences in design requirements of differing inlet tracts and combustion chambers.

Anyone know the spray pattern of the TTRS injectors?
Title: Re: Audi TTs / TT-rs injectors
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 20, 2010, 12:32:22 pm
RS4 injectors run around 15% more than the S3/ED30/Cupra injectors.  The main reason the RS4 injectors were used in the first place was due to the S3 ones not being available in the US as they dont have the S3.  They had to wait for the TTS to come out over there.  The only issue with the RS4 injectors is the spray pattern isnt perfect, but they still run ok and start up is ok too.
Oi - whadya mean the RS4 injector spray pattern isn't perfect?  Don't you go dissin my ride, dude!  :evilgrin:

Seriously, whats wrong with them?  Is it that the RS4 injector pattern doesn't suit the combustion chamber design of the 2.0 TFSI? :popcornsoda:

I am sort of dissin your ride  :love:

As KRL has pointed out with the perfect picture.  They are not 100% suited to the 2.0 FSi combustion chamber design.  Looks like there is less overall spray to help with the air to fuel mixing?
The air/fuel mixing is primarilly down to the swirl and tumble effects from the inlet manifold, ports and piston crown design.

I wonder if the wider spray angle of the two 2.0 TFSI injectors are more prone to bore washing?