MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: BMX on October 24, 2009, 05:19:39 pm
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got some new tyres fitted and they seem to grip alot better than the old ones, trouble is when it breaks traction the banging from underneath is tremendous, i have the ecs insert, but that seems to do SFA. any recomendations that completely stop this?
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lower engine mount, I have the ECS insert as well and the extra grip from good tyres make wheel hop an issue.
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i have the ecs insert, but that seems to do SFA. any recomendations that completely stop this?
Where is RR to answer this?? :wink:
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i have the ecs insert, but that seems to do SFA. any recomendations that completely stop this?
Where is RR to answer this?? :wink:
off playing with his flute Bacillus :wink:
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Vwr lower race mount solved mine doing it lol
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Vwr lower race mount solved mine doing it lol
Is that the pendulum one?
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Vwr lower race mount solved mine doing it lol
Is that the pendulum one?
yes thats the one
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Who makes the pendulum mount? I take it's not the same one as listed by BSH?
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i have the ecs insert, but that seems to do SFA. any recomendations that completely stop this?
Where is RR to answer this?? :wink:
off playing with his flute Bacillus :wink:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRR%2FRR_Horn1.jpg&hash=52880445f5866bf753fbb0f7a087865b2a0bd57d)
....In my opinion, changing the lower engine mount (mine is a VWR 'Fast Road') is the most effective cure. There's lots of info in my and john_o's and tony_d's threads in the Reviews area. However, there are number of things which also reduce wheel hop knocking. Suspension mods can help too.
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I also get this knocking/banging noise when I boot it, if the traction control is on. I don't think it dose it when traction is turned off though.
Could this be the engine mounts? Is this something i could get done on warranty?
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I have found that coilovers and a WALK kit have practically eliminated wheel hop on mine.
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I have found that coilovers and a WALK kit have practically eliminated wheel hop on mine.
i have to say u are correct its done the same for me :smiley:
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I have found that coilovers and a WALK kit have practically eliminated wheel hop on mine.
i have to say u are correct its done the same for me :smiley:
x 2, I also found on mine the lower mount (either the insert or VWR fast road one) on it's own won't stop wheel hop. But now with the coilovers, WALK and lower mount it takes a lot to make it happen now :happy2:
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if you were to stick much grippier tyres on R888s for example, would that mean you could start getting wheel hop again.
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I have found that coilovers and a WALK kit have practically eliminated wheel hop on mine.
i have to say u are correct its done the same for me :smiley:
x 2, I also found on mine the lower mount (either the insert or VWR fast road one) on it's own won't stop wheel hop. But now with the coilovers, WALK and lower mount it takes a lot to make it happen now :happy2:
....Yep, I should have expanded on the fact that I did my coilovers and WALK a while before the engine mount. I cured my wheel hop a long time ago and didn't remember accurately enough what did it. Quaife helps too. It's all about getting the power down smoothly and progressively.
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My VF mounts arrived earlier this week, so I'll report back once they are in place :smiley:
One thing I did notice though, my R888's absolutely killed dead the wheel hop. :happy2:
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So this is a common thing? Does it mean new mounts?
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So this is a common thing? Does it mean new mounts?
Its not a fault with the car normally, its just a form of wheelspin i believe, depending on what the grip conditions are like on your car and on the road at the time. I think its actually your wheels bouncing off the road as they spin up. :smiley:
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Wheel hop is a combination of three things acting together to create the banging sensation known as wheel hop on a FWD car. These are....
The movement of the engine backwards and forwards as the transmission struggles to smoothly transfer power to the road.
The bouncing of the suspension as the damping struggles to control the transmission and wheelslip
The lack of traction which brings in the traction control and then sudden grip when it does and then the lack of traction repeating the same loop again over and over.
The three things which can eliminate/help eliminate wheelhop therefore are...
Stiffer engine and transmission mounts which control the relative movement between the driveline and engine.
Taughter suspension and dampening - adjustable suspension helps here
Better grip from the tyres - R888's in good conditions - not a lot in the wet (but then you get spin instead of hop anyway!!)
HTH. :smiley:
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ok so i have my new tyres ps2's which are great and the ecs insert but i dont want to go to the expense of coilovers and dont realy want the walk bushings. would the s3 bushings make any difference?
as for the pendulum mounts, they dont look as if they would do a better job than the insert i have, can some one tell me the difference?
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ok so i have my new tyres ps2's which are great and the ecs insert but i dont want to go to the expense of coilovers and dont realy want the walk bushings. would the s3 bushings make any difference?
as for the pendulum mounts, they dont look as if they would do a better job than the insert i have, can some one tell me the difference?
Just out of curiosity, how come? :smiley:
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the guys at vwr said they hadnt noticed any real difference when driving cars with them fitted.
how about this it says its a one stop fix, expensive but if it fixes the problem !
http://www.hpamotorsports.com/mounts.htm (http://www.hpamotorsports.com/mounts.htm)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgg208%2FTrade-N-Games%2Fmemphis023.jpg&hash=cbaa33fdffdc98dfa773847704df943ee4df480e)
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Yep, that's ^^ essentially the same theory as the VWR mount. I believe it is a subframe off job??, so you'd have to re-do the alignment too.
Sloppy mounts and bushes cause wheel hop.
The force of the torque when accellerating rotates the engine backwards. The wheels pull forward in the well, pulling on their bushes altering the angle of the wishbones. This makes the wheel move from a toe-in to toe-out position. As the tyre then breaks grip, as the increasing toe-out eventually reduces its contact patch, everything rotated/stretched then bangs back into position.
It isn't an 'up and down' motion in terms of the wheel/suspension, more like when you play on those bungee ropes when you try and run as far as you can before it snaps you back.
A diff won't cure it, neither will tyres - all you're doing there is moving the threshold at which breaking traction occurs. The WALK kit in terms of its added caster, the poly bush within the WALK is what's helping there... any changes to static geo settings are pointless, as it's the dynamic that alters. Inserts don't make any measureable difference on their own either and again, the only way stiffer suspension helps is by keeping the nose from rising, making it keep traction for longer before it breaks. Knackered/poorly matched dampers however can have an effect.
If you want as OEM a solution as possible, then you need to focus on removing the weak links in the pendulum mount and wishbones. Powerflex do replacement bushes for all areas of these to tighten them up, with the exception of the VWR/HPA style mount. The S3 wishbone bushes are a option of course too, but you'd still need the rest.
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or rather than fil your golf with s3 bits ........ Get an s3 ! No wheel hopwhat so ever :driver:
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anyone any pictures of the vwr bushing? how much are they?
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anyone any pictures of the vwr bushing? how much are they?
All the details are here - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6995.0
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ah right thats what i will get then cheers :drinking:
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the guys at vwr said they hadnt noticed any real difference when driving cars with them fitted.
....Mine was the first car VWR fitted the WALK's to and they haven't driven my car so much to be able to properly assess what WALK's contribute. However, my car handles very similarly to their Red Temptress demo GTI which doesn't have them. Also, they fitted my WALK at the same time as their V3 coilovers. I really don't think that they've driven WALK equipped cars enough yet to be able to justify their comment, nor have they tested them by comparisons on the same car AFAIK.
I don't know how much the VWR guys have driven Mat's Ed30 or anyone else with WALK's.
I certainly can't tell what the WALK's are contributing separately but my whole suspension package works well so I'm not bothered.