MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 03:36:19 pm

Title: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 03:36:19 pm
i have a gti dsg, after a map im expecting 250/270ish (give or take)

if i was then to get a TBE + CAI + tweek map what could i expect?

then in addition a hpfp.

then a FMIC + tweeked map.

Would i need a map of the dsg box?

Just so i have an idea of where im going, and if getting anything besides a map is worth it? i know the ED30 seems to be the car to own for most on the forum but i dont have one of those  :grin:

im only looking for very rough estimates to see what power i can expect.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 25, 2009, 04:17:25 pm
With all those mods listed, stage 2+ no more then 270-275bhp

Stage 1 around 240bhp.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: snapey on October 25, 2009, 04:19:33 pm
I'm sure it's been discussed on here before but don't quote me on it that the most your going to get out a k03 is about 270 max even with all those mods, the turbo just isn't capable of shifting any more air.

Luke
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: yin on October 25, 2009, 04:20:44 pm
This thread makes good reading on this it in a Leon but the same engine JBS Claimed 308Bhp :signLOL: with all bolt ons

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161127

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fm136%2FJBS_Auto_Designs%2FJBS-LEON-C-C-PSS.jpg&hash=807fadc667042460feb9da754b3543485d9a63f8)
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 25, 2009, 04:22:31 pm
This thread makes good reading on this it in a Leon but the same engine JBS Claimed 308Bhp :signLOL: with all bolt ons

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161127

^^depends on what rollers you put it on, not enough SEATS have seen a dyno dynamics set up.  :wink:

Perhaps have a look at this galary from jkm from all their rolling road days to get a realistic idea  :happy2:

http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/GalleryRollingroad.htm
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: yin on October 25, 2009, 04:25:05 pm
This thread makes good reading on this it in a Leon but the same engine JBS Claimed 308Bhp :signLOL: with all bolt ons

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161127

^^depends on what rollers you put it on, not enough SEATS have seen a dyno dynamics set up.  :wink:


Didn't say i belived it buy yes it was on there own optimistic  rollers
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 04:27:48 pm
so just a remap it is.  :grin:

Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on October 25, 2009, 04:49:26 pm
Just in the way of other worth while things to consider after the remap are:


Remember, torque is nothing without traction (or how it is delivered to the tarmac).
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: bacillus on October 25, 2009, 05:14:27 pm

Remember, torque is nothing without traction (or how it is delivered to the tarmac).

Hey, are you trying to reinvent my sig??    :wink:  :laugh:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 05:17:53 pm
i will be getting coilovers. so no need to worry about springs :P
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on October 25, 2009, 05:20:46 pm
i will be getting coilovers. so no need to worry about springs :P
Rocking of the engine during hard acceleration (and the associated issues)...certainly will be an issue even with coil overs...
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on October 25, 2009, 05:22:34 pm

Remember, torque is nothing without traction (or how it is delivered to the tarmac).

Hey, are you trying to reinvent my sig??    :wink:  :laugh:

Sorry mate...I should have acknowledged the source of wisdom in the final statement... 
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 05:22:47 pm
oh yea i know, i was only referring to the springs when i said coilovers  :happy2:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Top Cat on October 25, 2009, 05:47:28 pm
i have a gti dsg, after a map im expecting 250/270ish (give or take)

if i was then to get a TBE + CAI + tweek map what could i expect?

then in addition a hpfp.

then a FMIC + tweeked map.

Would i need a map of the dsg box?

Just so i have an idea of where im going, and if getting anything besides a map is worth it? i know the ED30 seems to be the car to own for most on the forum but i dont have one of those  :grin:

im only looking for very rough estimates to see what power i can expect.

In the real world ED a stage 1 map on a GTI should give you about 235 BHP
Add a TBE and your looking at 242 ish BHP
then with stage 2 map me thinks about 255 BHP
Then uprated IC may sneak you another 5 BHP.
That leaves intake and fuel pump and stage 2+ if we are talking revo. i dont have any of these last 3 mods so i couldn't say what extra they would give but i would be very surprised if you could get past 280 BHP with all of the above.

The gains from the DSG map would be slight in my opinion  with the KO 3 as our puff is dyeing off at  really high revs any ways, where the KO 4 is still giving.  :sad1:

My advise would be get the exhaust to go with the map it completely changes the feel of the car. One thing is for certain though once you get it mapped you will be hooked and you can say good bye to peace with the misses.  :laugh:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999sMrs on October 25, 2009, 05:55:08 pm
i will be getting coilovers. so no need to worry about springs :P

Do you mean after the wedding? and Holiday?
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 25, 2009, 05:58:26 pm
i will be getting coilovers. so no need to worry about springs :P

Do you mean after the wedding? and Holiday?
This sounds very familiar  :scared:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Top Cat on October 25, 2009, 05:59:24 pm
Its popcorn time folks.  :pomppomp: :pomppomp: :pomppomp:  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 25, 2009, 06:05:28 pm
revo stage 2+ K03 cars consistently hit 280bhp and about 320Ibft torque providing they have all the supporting mods available. I think they could now surpass by a few more bhp with the new ITG and twintake once people start to use them more often.

add to that some water meth injection and added mapping I reckon 290Bhp is achievable

to achieve this you would need

uprated DV
uprated fuel pump,
bigger intercooler,
turbo back exhaust,
neuspeed turbo discharge pipe
a very good air intake
Water meth Injection
and a map that can utilise the benefits of water meth.

maybe even a PCV fix and a good sevice to ensure then engine is running at its optimum
290bhp 320Ibft should be achievable then, but i think 300bhp is a no go zone, unless you start bolting on nitrous kits
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 25, 2009, 06:10:17 pm
Its popcorn time folks.  :pomppomp: :pomppomp: :pomppomp:  :evilgrin:

 :laugh: :laugh:

Butterscotch please :wink:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 06:14:55 pm
i knew this thread may get me into trouble :P


my dearest zahra i assure you that you shall go the the ball (wedding). (it might not be a good idea to call a wedding a ball)

and our holiday will be in march....in the golf...to germany...round a ring and back :) (not going to get away with that)
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 09:06:22 pm
what does the dsg map do?

have revo released theirs yet?

Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Top Cat on October 25, 2009, 09:11:43 pm
what does the dsg map do?

have revo released theirs yet?



http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1530.0
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 25, 2009, 09:12:39 pm
Get the wifes permission 1st  :wink:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 09:16:04 pm
Get the wifes permission 1st  :wink:


but ofcourse  :grin:

what she cant see, she cant complain about  :wink:

i have been using the search function! and have only found ed30's with the dsg software, it increases the rev limited to 7250 i think it said, but is that going to benefit me with a k03?
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: SteveP on October 25, 2009, 09:19:39 pm
Get the wifes permission 1st  :wink:


but ofcourse  :grin:

what she cant see, she cant complain about  :wink:

i have been using the search function! and have only found ed30's with the dsg software, it increases the rev limited to 7250 i think it said, but is that going to benefit me with a k03?

It is of less benefit to people with very small K03 turbo's as TC said earlier they run out of puff earlier than the K04.

DSG software will also remove the forced change up and kick down in manual mode plus some versions can also increase the clutch plate/hydraulic pressure to help with increased torque handling and others increase the shift speed.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 25, 2009, 09:19:53 pm
No because the k04 is still making good boost at high Rpm, whereas the K03 has no puff left to give, and make it pretty pointless.

edit.... as steveP beat me to it :happy2:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: NB07 on October 25, 2009, 09:23:26 pm
i think engine mapping should be done first, on a k03 i dont really know if there would be much piont mapping the DSG as to be honest i dont really think there is much point doing it to a k04 unless your bombing up the pod every day. for me personally its right down the list of things, for five or six ton you would be better off putting towards a map or exhaust or LSD i reckon  :smiley:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 09:28:48 pm
yea after more reason i have been talked out of it.

so my list of mods is becoming clear lol

my 1st mod will be straight after this payday...cruise control, a big mod that increases...nothing haha but makes my life easier  :grin:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Top Cat on October 25, 2009, 09:31:21 pm
yea after more reason i have been talked out of it.

so my list of mods is becoming clear lol

my 1st mod will be straight after this payday...cruise control, a big mod that increases...nothing haha but makes my life easier  :grin:

Waits for misses Eds reply. (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2Fcoffee.gif&hash=65b13e2b50db23e5d27dd61d9a864c6d8d14d584)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2Fscareface.gif&hash=d3abc05e4d270cf8aaa0fbb03445ec121cc333d0)   :scared:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 09:33:07 pm
yea after more reason i have been talked out of it.

so my list of mods is becoming clear lol

my 1st mod will be straight after this payday...cruise control, a big mod that increases...nothing haha but makes my life easier  :grin:

Waits for misses Eds reply. (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2Fcoffee.gif&hash=65b13e2b50db23e5d27dd61d9a864c6d8d14d584)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2Fscareface.gif&hash=d3abc05e4d270cf8aaa0fbb03445ec121cc333d0)   :scared:


oh shush haha
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Sie on October 25, 2009, 10:28:21 pm
So whats involved in fitting a KO4 turbo to a GTi???

Is it worth it??

Sie
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 25, 2009, 10:40:17 pm
about 3k as far as i know
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999sMrs on October 25, 2009, 10:44:34 pm


my 1st mod will be straight after this payday...cruise control, a big mod that increases...nothing haha but makes my life easier  :grin:

youre having a laugh ed.

Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 25, 2009, 10:51:01 pm
So whats involved in fitting a KO4 turbo to a GTi???

Is it worth it??

Sie

to vRS guys from briskoda have recently had theirs converted and a running 320bhp plus on jkms rollers. they rate it very highly but different in comparison to the delivery of a k03. they said it was worthwhile howver they both bought second hand k04 turbos
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 26, 2009, 07:18:27 am


my 1st mod will be straight after this payday...cruise control, a big mod that increases...nothing haha but makes my life easier  :grin:

youre having a laugh ed.

 :congrats:, at this rate he's gonna loose his Wedding tackle!!
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999sMrs on October 26, 2009, 07:52:24 am


 :congrats:, at this rate he's gonna loose his Wedding tackle!!

who needs a wife when you have a car
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 26, 2009, 08:40:08 am


 :congrats:, at this rate he's gonna loose his Wedding tackle!!

who needs a wife when you have a car
You been chatting to my wife then  :signLOL:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: JPC on October 26, 2009, 03:13:15 pm
Mrs Ed....you sound just like my girlfriend! haha! ;)
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Sie on October 26, 2009, 04:12:01 pm
about 3k as far as i know

Why so much??
Other than turbo and recirc setup whats needed??

Sie
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: SteveP on October 26, 2009, 04:14:27 pm
about 3k as far as i know

Why so much??
Other than turbo and recirc setup whats needed??

Sie

Software  :happy2:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 26, 2009, 04:41:38 pm
about 3k as far as i know

Why so much??
Other than turbo and recirc setup whats needed??

Sie

intercooler and injectors as well
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Hedge on October 26, 2009, 05:19:39 pm
+ zorst.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Sie on October 26, 2009, 05:24:10 pm
Yer but taking in to consideration you already got a fettled GTi, uprated zorst (i plan to do 3" downpipe) and larger FMIC, you will only need the ECU, Injectors, turbo and recirc sysyem, would the ECU need flashing to go on a car that it hasnt come from are there certain ones to look out for??

Sie
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 26, 2009, 05:26:14 pm
if you bought the bit in small parts here and there whilst waiting for a k04 to turn up on ebay it might be ok. prob with that is not spending our dollar on other things.

Think if i was to upgrade turbo and it was going to be new id prob just go for GT2871 instaed of the the K04(or would i need to upgrade the internals then?)
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: bacillus on October 26, 2009, 07:31:41 pm
Think if i was to upgrade turbo and it was going to be new id prob just go for GT2871 instaed of the the K04(or would i need to upgrade the internals then?)

Apr do the GT2871 in their stage 3 package without uprated internals but dumb down things in the software at low revs to avoid bending your rods.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: yin on October 26, 2009, 11:28:29 pm
Think if i was to upgrade turbo and it was going to be new id prob just go for GT2871 instaed of the the K04(or would i need to upgrade the internals then?)

Apr do the GT2871 in their stage 3 package without uprated internals but dumb down things in the software at low revs to avoid bending your rods.

And Dan still bent one :scared:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fy115%2Fjonsmout%2Fbentrod.jpg&hash=2e6ab947f31b464bd92d7a58b579115880b143a0)
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 27, 2009, 01:02:29 am
couldnt i send away my turbo to be "customised" call it a k03+? didnt they do this on the mk4?
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: bacillus on October 27, 2009, 02:39:58 pm
couldnt i send away my turbo to be "customised" call it a k03+? didnt they do this on the mk4?

Yes this internal turbo rebuid  is available but getting the matching software will be difficult.
Wth proper set up with all the ancillary hardware, you could be looking at around 350bhp at crank.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: spliff1star on October 28, 2009, 09:05:31 am
First off 8months ago when deciding to choose what hothatch to go for i gave revo a call. I asked how much bhp a lcr and mk5 golf gti gain off a remap with no mods?

Lcr he said straight to 270

mk5 gti 265-270

never told me mk5 ed30 he said 200bhp mk5 so i thought thats great that it can gain 65 to 70 off a stage 1 remap.But how wrong i seem to be qouted more like 35 to 45 by what im hearing! I drove a remaped 07 cupra before choosing my golf and the seat manager claimed it was 300bhp.
Was quick and he evan had a go at the gti mk5s saying they are slow but the leon just was not a golf so went for that! Its hard to compare my gti against a ed30 or standard cupra 240 because i have never driven one!
so i cant see what u guys talk about when you mention the way the k03 delivers power and runs out compared to the k04
 
is the k03 more pokey low down and k04 more lazzy then bang all the power comes in? 

Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: NEWEY on October 28, 2009, 09:43:23 am
Mrs Ed....you sound just like my girlfriend! haha! ;)

im glad im not the only one thinking the same  :signLOL: :signLOL:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: tony_danza on October 28, 2009, 10:31:10 am
I don't genuinely know what my car is putting out - but pound for pound it is exactly the same as 2 friends generic stage1 DSG ED30s in the "stick it in 3rd and on the 3rd beep floor it on the 'bahn" test we had en-route to the 'Ring.

Now, they're running nothing other than a map and a panel filter. Mine's got everything including adjustable REVO settings bar a HPFP.

That hopefully gives an idea of what bolt on mods & stage 2 could provide. BHP/Torque figures are pointless in some respects.

Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 28, 2009, 11:59:52 am
dont worry about your car not getting the figures an ed30, it by no means makes it slow. a stage 2+ k03 GTI WILL hit 280bhp and between 300-320Ibft torque with all the supporting mods.

it might not have the power of an Ed 30 or cupra thats been tuned.  But is it slow, No.

the focus RS has 300bhp and 320Ibft torque but weighs more, so in comparison, your car will be about equal to the perfomance of the RS.(straightline).



Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 28, 2009, 02:39:59 pm
tbh i was a little disappointed about the achievable figures compared to a ED30. but in a way im happy, i was going to take my gti to stage 2+ (costing a fair wack) thinking 300bhp+ but now im going to be more than happy with a non res CBE, a CAI, DV and a map(270ish), this will see healthy figures that i will be happy with and leave money im my pocket to make it look as i have always wanted it to.

Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 28, 2009, 03:51:27 pm
270bhp is plenty fast enough matie :happy2:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 28, 2009, 03:58:45 pm
270bhp is plenty fast enough matie :happy2:

exactly. and tbh im more than happy with my standard 200bhp at the mo.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 28, 2009, 04:01:10 pm
270bhp is plenty fast enough matie :happy2:

exactly. and tbh im more than happy with my standard 200bhp at the mo.
oh in time my friend ........ in time ............... Tis like a ticking timebomb trust me :happy2:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: prepree on October 28, 2009, 04:04:32 pm
270bhp is plenty fast enough matie :happy2:

exactly. and tbh im more than happy with my standard 200bhp at the mo.
oh in time my friend ........ in time ............... Tis like a ticking timebomb trust me :happy2:

Iv had mine almost a year and im getting itchy feet!!
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 28, 2009, 04:05:03 pm
i managed 2 years before the itch got too much :wink:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: MancBen on October 28, 2009, 04:08:14 pm
I know I might sound like a miserable old fart saying this, but I'm not sure that 300+ hp through the front wheels is a particularly good idea in a road car anyway.

I say this as I took a previous car, a Leon Cupra R, to APR stage 2 and yes it was fast, but the first 2 gears were next to useless due to traction issues (make that 3rd and 4th in the wet too) and it ruined the balance of the car.

It was hilariously fast... but turned into a one trick pony (Granted the mk5 chassis is better.. but same logic still applies imo)

Anyway, can of worms opened now.  :smiley:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: tony_danza on October 28, 2009, 04:11:32 pm
Nah - I agree, anything more than 280ish and you're needing a diff, and I refuse to have one because (a) cost+can't just unbolt it when you sell the car, so dead money (b) they can be an absolute pig in the wet/slippy conditions.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 28, 2009, 04:12:41 pm
there are mods you can do handling wise to combat that but 300bhp is alot of fun  :grin:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on October 28, 2009, 04:28:30 pm
there are mods you can do handling wise to combat that but 300bhp is alot of fun  :grin:
Yes but with those come a whole host of things to compliment one to the next . As its been said, in reality, you would have to do other mods to contain 280+ ponnies.


Its fun, and bloody hard to stop if you have the cash to splash  :smiley:
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: tony_danza on October 28, 2009, 04:29:25 pm
Yep, I've got all of 'em ED!

To be fair mine doesn't struggle with getting the power down now, but I can imagine say 30BHP more and I'd be struggling with 2nd gear corner exits.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: edd666999 on October 28, 2009, 04:36:02 pm
has anyone tried the powertec? http://www.powertecfilters.co.uk/


had one on my previous car, sounds awsome and the filter is metal.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Janner_Sy on October 28, 2009, 06:44:11 pm
i agree with the above. 280bhp is not to be laughed at. that is still a very quick car. enough to fully embarass alot of much more expensive machinery(something i enjoy doing as mines a skoda so it annoys them so much more)

I would not like to run 280bhp on std suspension setup though. I think the absolute first mod should be ARBs.

280bhp in the wet will also need a very progressive right foot or a diff.
Title: Re: gti's max power after mods?
Post by: Pauli on October 29, 2009, 04:24:38 pm
I got 249 BHP just off APR remap, and 299lb/ft, on my first GTi. It felt very quick at that.