MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: GTI-Ross on July 03, 2014, 05:32:15 pm

Title: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: GTI-Ross on July 03, 2014, 05:32:15 pm
I knew it would be a close one....

Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: cobz on July 03, 2014, 05:49:21 pm
Tagging this for when I get back from work!

Been waiting for a Vs. New Cupra looks amazing so glad it's holding up against the R!
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on July 03, 2014, 06:14:23 pm
Ohhhh Ross this should be in the Random chat, not mk5 general area  :grin:

Richard will be along soon to move it  :rolleye:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Sug on July 03, 2014, 06:19:40 pm
Leon goes well, shame it's as looks very bland
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: betty_swollox on July 03, 2014, 06:26:27 pm
Leon goes well, shame it's as looks very bland

looks better in grey, looks so boring in white


The mk7 golf r looks lush in any colour lol
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: toosmiles on July 03, 2014, 06:57:18 pm
Lol just watched this was surprised it was so close ;)
Also watched the vid for the new Scooby hmmmm
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Eddie-NL on July 03, 2014, 07:00:26 pm
Leon goes well, shame it's as looks very bland

looks better in grey, looks so boring in white


The mk7 golf r looks lush in any colour lol

Golf looks nice, but I prefer the look of the Leon
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: TommyR on July 03, 2014, 08:58:14 pm
Looks like these have big tuning capabilities until you want to go big turbo...
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: big eck on July 03, 2014, 10:29:41 pm
Leon goes well, shame it's as looks very bland

That's the exact same thing I said when I first saw the seat. Very disappointed in the looks of it. I so wanted it to be a bit more aggressive looking as standard.
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: chris s on July 04, 2014, 11:14:46 am
The external looks of both work for me but despite being a previous cupra owner I cannot get my head around how all seat dashs and instrument panels look... There's something not quite right about how steeply angled they are... Might be on my own with this opinion though?
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: paulw123 on July 04, 2014, 01:35:43 pm
the grey leon at goodwood just didn't seem that special and I'm sure the price tag was around£30K, probably all options, but for a seat.......
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: betty_swollox on July 04, 2014, 01:50:48 pm
the grey leon at goodwood just didn't seem that special and I'm sure the price tag was around£30K, probably all options, but for a seat.......

OOOOOHHHH BADGE SNOB ALERT

(although I do agree to a certain extent. RRP of the Golf R is only 2-3k more and it'll hold its value better!)
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: rich83 on July 04, 2014, 02:11:09 pm
Doesnt surprise me...

Its annoying that they do all the testing on the most boring part of the circuit.
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Spankiee on July 04, 2014, 03:38:27 pm
Sugs up there ^^^^ best looking golf they have made in years for me.

Leon's always feel a bit tacky inside I think.

Even if it's a tiny bit faster on a track I'd still take the golf.
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: paulw123 on July 04, 2014, 03:50:09 pm
the grey leon at goodwood just didn't seem that special and I'm sure the price tag was around£30K, probably all options, but for a seat.......

OOOOOHHHH BADGE SNOB ALERT

(although I do agree to a certain extent. RRP of the Golf R is only 2-3k more and it'll hold its value better!)

Pack your bags and leave this GOLF FORUM......you Spanish infultraitor..... :P
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: betty_swollox on July 04, 2014, 04:19:04 pm
the grey leon at goodwood just didn't seem that special and I'm sure the price tag was around£30K, probably all options, but for a seat.......

OOOOOHHHH BADGE SNOB ALERT

(although I do agree to a certain extent. RRP of the Golf R is only 2-3k more and it'll hold its value better!)

Pack your bags and leave this GOLF FORUM......you Spanish infultraitor..... :P

I'd take more notice if you could spell properly :congrats: :congrats:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: AndrewJB on July 04, 2014, 05:27:48 pm
Well I love my new Cupra 280 (Modified of course already)
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: burger187 on July 04, 2014, 07:32:52 pm
Revo stage 1 beta  :driver: :drool: :laugh:http://youtu.be/PsMwbwspLKk
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Frenzy on July 05, 2014, 12:26:31 am
maybe the Seat, what with it being lighter than the Golf R, is faster on the sections of cadwell they were using but what got me from the vid was that the vast majority of it had the R in front punching a massive hole in the air whilst the Seat sat in and was declared quicker just because it kept up, then when he finally put the nose of the Cupra into some air resistance lo and behold he had to admit that he couldn't go by...  :stupid:

the best test would be to get Chris Harris on the case.
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: simonp on July 05, 2014, 04:40:09 pm
In their respective Autocar road tests the Cupra and Golf R are listed as weighing 1400kg and 1410kg, so they've either made a typo or they weigh, near as damn it, the same.
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: J400uk on July 06, 2014, 12:36:42 am
Great video and it's impressive how fast the Cupra seems to be, given it's normally compared to the GTI rather than the R. I'd still take the Golf though as the Leon interior isn't up to scratch and I think the VW will be easier to live with
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: betty_swollox on July 06, 2014, 08:10:44 am
I think the VW will be easier to live with

??
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: J400uk on July 06, 2014, 05:41:47 pm
I think the VW will be easier to live with

??
As in its just a normal/ relaxed car when you want it to be and more comfortable inside. Leon seems more aggressively setup for track use compared to the Golf.
Title: Re:
Post by: AndrewJB on July 06, 2014, 08:27:30 pm
Had 3 Golf R owners walk up to me today at Inters and all 3 said they wished they had bought the Cupra :p

Put the Cupra in comfort mode and its a sensible family hatch .. Press Cupra and sport mode on DSG and its a different animal

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Title: Re:
Post by: GTI-Ross on July 06, 2014, 11:06:45 pm
Had 3 Golf R owners walk up to me today at Inters and all 3 said they wished they had bought the Cupra :p

Put the Cupra in comfort mode and its a sensible family hatch .. Press Cupra and sport mode on DSG and its a different animal

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

The cupra is a good all round car. Just dont think its styled hot enough to be a hot hatch. Where's the aggressive wheels and body kit? Had to spot a Cupra form an FR
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: flashp on July 06, 2014, 11:28:11 pm
This review is a bit odd in as much these cars are quite different, apples and oranges almost. Here's why I think this...

Golf is 4wd, Cupra is 2wd. Cupra is more closely matched to GTI with PP in this regard but has more power so it's not an even match in this case either.
Cupra 4wd is coming, this would be a better match for the Golf R. What will we see between them then I wonder? Probably not much if anything at all.

In my case I consider the Cupra to be the preferred car since I've spent more than I want to add up in getting mine to a similar spec. LSD was so worthwhile but a pricey addition, brakes weren't too cheap either. I bet the Cupra suspension is pretty capable from the factory. Cupra's had the lighter components when comparing a 2008 FR I had to a same year Cupra. For me the Cupra has everything I've added from the factory.

All these need is £500 on a map and I reckon it'll make the same power as my stage 2+ Pirelli.

With a bit of occasional track work a 2wd Cupra 280 plus a stage 1 map will be my next choice. I don't want or need 4wd either.

As an aside...after seeing an engine bay shot of the 280 I noticed how HUGE the airbox is. Should negate the need for an intake at circa 330bhp.

Oh, and it's several £000's cheaper which is nice.  :laugh:

Clearly in the VAG group there's now a vehicle for all preferences. Its is a good thing that there are subtle differences as the finished products can be quite different from one another. We can all have what we want!  :driver:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: simonp on July 07, 2014, 01:01:25 am
Doubt there will be an AWD Cupra. I reckon if there is an R it'll be more in the vein of the Megane Trophy R. SEAT can't re-take the FWD 'ring record if their car has 4 driven wheels, can they?
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: flashp on July 07, 2014, 06:14:00 am
I raised an eyebrow, but that's what my dealer reckoned. Time will tell.  :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: AndrewJB on July 07, 2014, 07:00:33 am
I raised an eyebrow, but that's what my dealer reckoned. Time will tell.  :popcornsoda:

Its not lol  :happy2:

Dealers will tell you what you want to hear.

Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: simonp on July 07, 2014, 07:51:33 am
Well another dealer said it will have a 7 speed DSG, too, but we all know that won't work! :laugh:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: flashp on July 07, 2014, 08:23:24 am
I raised an eyebrow, but that's what my dealer reckoned. Time will tell.  :popcornsoda:

Its not lol  :happy2:

Dealers will tell you what you want to hear.


I didn't ask after a 4wd, he offered the info. When I change I shall want a fwd, told him that though.
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: simonp on July 07, 2014, 08:30:48 am
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/87461/seat-eyes-renault-lap-record-with-lighter-leon-cupra
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: AndrewJB on July 07, 2014, 08:43:14 am
there's alot of articles going around with pictures saying a 4wd test mule has been spotted... I took the photos in some of the articles lol and I know it isnt a 4wd test mule. the pictures were taken last year on the ST launch in Barcelona..


this is an example of the article
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/seat-leon-cupra-r-test-mule-spied
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: sub39h on July 07, 2014, 10:15:12 am
So the crux of it is that the Golf R is a slightly better all-rounder, and the Seat is slightly more fun (and, imho better looking). £5k is a big difference tho - makes it very hard to recommend the R unless 4WD is an absolute must, and if that is the case the S3 is basically the same price, better looking (again, imo) and considered "more premium".
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: flashp on July 07, 2014, 10:36:42 am
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/87461/seat-eyes-renault-lap-record-with-lighter-leon-cupra
Last paragraph says it all! Not sure why my dealer has it in their minds that 4wd is inevitable.
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: arthur on July 07, 2014, 02:51:58 pm
I've ordered an R, can't wait.  It is more expensive that the Leon but it does have a better spec to go with it too!
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: AndrewJB on July 07, 2014, 03:56:39 pm
but it does have a better spec to go with it too!

So whats yours got that Mine hasnt apart from 4wd and 20bhp?
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Eddie-NL on July 07, 2014, 04:42:18 pm
but it does have a better spec to go with it too!

So whats yours got that Mine hasnt apart from 4wd and 20bhp?


a VW badge
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Frenzy on July 07, 2014, 04:44:42 pm
 :signLOL:

and ooooh  :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: betty_swollox on July 07, 2014, 05:02:42 pm
but it does have a better spec to go with it too!

So whats yours got that Mine hasnt apart from 4wd and 20bhp?


a VW badge

 :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:


Tbf it will hold its value more than the Cupra
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: AndrewJB on July 07, 2014, 05:03:17 pm
but it does have a better spec to go with it too!

So whats yours got that Mine hasnt apart from 4wd and 20bhp?


a VW badge

So has mine on most of the components under the bonnet  :P
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: paulw123 on July 07, 2014, 05:43:23 pm
but it does have a better spec to go with it too!

So whats yours got that Mine hasnt apart from 4wd and 20bhp?


a VW badge

 :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:


Tbf it will hold its value more than the Cupra
until all these cheap lease R's go into used market at same time.........hopefully  :wink:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: betty_swollox on July 07, 2014, 06:05:59 pm
but it does have a better spec to go with it too!

So whats yours got that Mine hasnt apart from 4wd and 20bhp?


a VW badge

 :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:


Tbf it will hold its value more than the Cupra
until all these cheap lease R's go into used market at same time.........hopefully  :wink:


thats what I am holding out for ;)
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Holyzeus on July 07, 2014, 07:38:06 pm
Except the cheap lease R thing has been plugged so don't all hold your breath.
Eddie  :congrats:
I also (quick google ) make the price difference roughly 2.5K not 5? The residuals in a few years will wipe that difference and more out
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Eddie-NL on July 07, 2014, 07:41:38 pm
by the time lease cars come back, VW will probably have raised the list price which then bumps up the price of used cars.

Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: flashp on November 15, 2016, 11:02:04 am
Bit of thread resurrection here since it was speculated that Seat would be releasing a 4wd Cupra.
Since this we have this to go on: http://www.seatcupra.net/index.php/2016/11/14/seat-confirms-new-leon-cupra-300-4wd/ (http://www.seatcupra.net/index.php/2016/11/14/seat-confirms-new-leon-cupra-300-4wd/)

I'll bet the price is favourable too. :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Pesky jones on November 15, 2016, 11:35:46 am
Saw this today - looks interesting.
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: pudding on November 15, 2016, 12:01:25 pm
Hmmmmm, it's a bit like Red coke is the S3, diet coke is the Golf R and now we have the caffiene free Coke, Leon 4WD.

In other words, the same bloody thing, just with a little bit taken away from each one.

I really don't find myself getting excited by anything VAG these days.  It's just an endless conveyor belt churning out samey products.  Apparently there will be even more RS models being churned out by Audi soon.  RS1, RS Q5, RS Q7, RS8, and on and on it goes.  The cheapest of which will be the RS1, probably starting at £35K, easily £45K with the usual "must have for resale" options added.  And an 'RS' Soft roader?!  Not really sure why orange faced Essex mums need 500hp to drop little Timmy off to school with.


Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: flashp on November 15, 2016, 12:39:11 pm
Hmmmmm, it's a bit like Red coke is the S3, diet coke is the Golf R and now we have the caffiene free Coke, Leon 4WD.

In other words, the same bloody thing, just with a little bit taken away from each one.

I really don't find myself getting excited by anything VAG these days.  It's just an endless conveyor belt churning out samey products.  Apparently there will be even more RS models being churned out by Audi soon.  RS1, RS Q5, RS Q7, RS8, and on and on it goes.  The cheapest of which will be the RS1, probably starting at £35K, easily £45K with the usual "must have for resale" options added.  And an 'RS' Soft roader?!  Not really sure why orange faced Essex mums need 500hp to drop little Timmy off to school with.

For the most part I agree with this. It would be refreshing if the caffeine free option were £3-£4k cheaper.  :laugh:
These model variants are a response to market demand, they think (and are probably correct) that they will sell these.

I hope that the Cupra turns up as it has in the past with the 4 pot Brembos, mechanical LSD, lightweight suspension components etc from the factory.

I personally think that fitting the Clubsport with the big single piston calipers rather than light weight 4 piston calipers was a bit of a missed opportunity to fit the parts that were more befitting. I know it didn't need them to do it's ring publicity and most owners won't notice or care but it serves as a reminder that it's a car for the collectors or a trophy (see what I did there :laugh:) for the driveway. Still not as focused as the Megan RS variants. Is it a car that's trying to look like something that it arguably isn't or is it simply a result of a marketing study??. Dedicated VW fans won't care and they will sell well, the S is sold out so there's the evidence.
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Shoduchi on November 15, 2016, 12:52:44 pm
The Leon Cupra 280 has the optional "Sub8 Performance Pack" with the 4-pot Brembos, a pack with bucket seats and a pack with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres. The VAQ electronically-controlled limited slip differential is standard. Seems to be good. :smiley:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on November 15, 2016, 01:35:53 pm

Next years Leon Cupra will be 4wd too
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: pudding on November 15, 2016, 02:25:18 pm
Hmmmmm, it's a bit like Red coke is the S3, diet coke is the Golf R and now we have the caffiene free Coke, Leon 4WD.

In other words, the same bloody thing, just with a little bit taken away from each one.

I really don't find myself getting excited by anything VAG these days.  It's just an endless conveyor belt churning out samey products.  Apparently there will be even more RS models being churned out by Audi soon.  RS1, RS Q5, RS Q7, RS8, and on and on it goes.  The cheapest of which will be the RS1, probably starting at £35K, easily £45K with the usual "must have for resale" options added.  And an 'RS' Soft roader?!  Not really sure why orange faced Essex mums need 500hp to drop little Timmy off to school with.

For the most part I agree with this. It would be refreshing if the caffeine free option were £3-£4k cheaper.  :laugh:
These model variants are a response to market demand, they think (and are probably correct) that they will sell these.

I hope that the Cupra turns up as it has in the past with the 4 pot Brembos, mechanical LSD, lightweight suspension components etc from the factory.

I personally think that fitting the Clubsport with the big single piston calipers rather than light weight 4 piston calipers was a bit of a missed opportunity to fit the parts that were more befitting. I know it didn't need them to do it's ring publicity and most owners won't notice or care but it serves as a reminder that it's a car for the collectors or a trophy (see what I did there :laugh:) for the driveway. Still not as focused as the Megan RS variants. Is it a car that's trying to look like something that it arguably isn't or is it simply a result of a marketing study??. Dedicated VW fans won't care and they will sell well, the S is sold out so there's the evidence.

I think the S sold out immediately, just like the 911 R.  This whole elitist availability limiting thing to keep the collectors happy winds enthusiasts up, but the Germans are expert at knowing their customers and car alchemy!  They know Americans like value for money and stick up for their rights, which is why they get 10 year power train warranties, and they know English people hate complaining, which is why we get 3 year powertrain warranties.  They also know the UK is happy to pay £50K for a base level TT-RS because of the badge, but Americans would laugh in the face of a dealer asking that much for a TT.  They've been exploiting the markets like that for decades, but they're about to get a rocket up their capitalist arse soon with all the billions they've got to pay out  :grin:

I hear you on the French hot hatch approach, but I think Clio Trophy owners got a huge shock when presented with a £3K bill for a pair of front dampers  :grin:   Sometimes basic is better  :happy2:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: flashp on November 15, 2016, 06:49:58 pm
Hmmmmm, it's a bit like Red coke is the S3, diet coke is the Golf R and now we have the caffiene free Coke, Leon 4WD.

In other words, the same bloody thing, just with a little bit taken away from each one.

I really don't find myself getting excited by anything VAG these days.  It's just an endless conveyor belt churning out samey products.  Apparently there will be even more RS models being churned out by Audi soon.  RS1, RS Q5, RS Q7, RS8, and on and on it goes.  The cheapest of which will be the RS1, probably starting at £35K, easily £45K with the usual "must have for resale" options added.  And an 'RS' Soft roader?!  Not really sure why orange faced Essex mums need 500hp to drop little Timmy off to school with.

For the most part I agree with this. It would be refreshing if the caffeine free option were £3-£4k cheaper.  :laugh:
These model variants are a response to market demand, they think (and are probably correct) that they will sell these.

I hope that the Cupra turns up as it has in the past with the 4 pot Brembos, mechanical LSD, lightweight suspension components etc from the factory.

I personally think that fitting the Clubsport with the big single piston calipers rather than light weight 4 piston calipers was a bit of a missed opportunity to fit the parts that were more befitting. I know it didn't need them to do it's ring publicity and most owners won't notice or care but it serves as a reminder that it's a car for the collectors or a trophy (see what I did there :laugh:) for the driveway. Still not as focused as the Megan RS variants. Is it a car that's trying to look like something that it arguably isn't or is it simply a result of a marketing study??. Dedicated VW fans won't care and they will sell well, the S is sold out so there's the evidence.

I think the S sold out immediately, just like the 911 R.  This whole elitist availability limiting thing to keep the collectors happy winds enthusiasts up, but the Germans are expert at knowing their customers and car alchemy!  They know Americans like value for money and stick up for their rights, which is why they get 10 year power train warranties, and they know English people hate complaining, which is why we get 3 year powertrain warranties.  They also know the UK is happy to pay £50K for a base level TT-RS because of the badge, but Americans would laugh in the face of a dealer asking that much for a TT.  They've been exploiting the markets like that for decades, but they're about to get a rocket up their capitalist arse soon with all the billions they've got to pay out  :grin:

I hear you on the French hot hatch approach, but I think Clio Trophy owners got a huge shock when presented with a £3K bill for a pair of front dampers  :grin:   Sometimes basic is better  :happy2:

Those Sachs dampers were best left to the 'must be original' brigade. Ohlins road & track or KW Clubsports probably a better option, and cheaper for a full set. A friend who has a 172 told me about those dampers, I nearly fell off my chair  :stupid:

With you on the other points you made  :happy2:  :fighting:
Title: Re: New Golf R vs New Leon Cupra Review
Post by: pudding on November 16, 2016, 10:39:21 am
Hmmmmm, it's a bit like Red coke is the S3, diet coke is the Golf R and now we have the caffiene free Coke, Leon 4WD.

In other words, the same bloody thing, just with a little bit taken away from each one.

I really don't find myself getting excited by anything VAG these days.  It's just an endless conveyor belt churning out samey products.  Apparently there will be even more RS models being churned out by Audi soon.  RS1, RS Q5, RS Q7, RS8, and on and on it goes.  The cheapest of which will be the RS1, probably starting at £35K, easily £45K with the usual "must have for resale" options added.  And an 'RS' Soft roader?!  Not really sure why orange faced Essex mums need 500hp to drop little Timmy off to school with.

For the most part I agree with this. It would be refreshing if the caffeine free option were £3-£4k cheaper.  :laugh:
These model variants are a response to market demand, they think (and are probably correct) that they will sell these.

I hope that the Cupra turns up as it has in the past with the 4 pot Brembos, mechanical LSD, lightweight suspension components etc from the factory.

I personally think that fitting the Clubsport with the big single piston calipers rather than light weight 4 piston calipers was a bit of a missed opportunity to fit the parts that were more befitting. I know it didn't need them to do it's ring publicity and most owners won't notice or care but it serves as a reminder that it's a car for the collectors or a trophy (see what I did there :laugh:) for the driveway. Still not as focused as the Megan RS variants. Is it a car that's trying to look like something that it arguably isn't or is it simply a result of a marketing study??. Dedicated VW fans won't care and they will sell well, the S is sold out so there's the evidence.

I think the S sold out immediately, just like the 911 R.  This whole elitist availability limiting thing to keep the collectors happy winds enthusiasts up, but the Germans are expert at knowing their customers and car alchemy!  They know Americans like value for money and stick up for their rights, which is why they get 10 year power train warranties, and they know English people hate complaining, which is why we get 3 year powertrain warranties.  They also know the UK is happy to pay £50K for a base level TT-RS because of the badge, but Americans would laugh in the face of a dealer asking that much for a TT.  They've been exploiting the markets like that for decades, but they're about to get a rocket up their capitalist arse soon with all the billions they've got to pay out  :grin:

I hear you on the French hot hatch approach, but I think Clio Trophy owners got a huge shock when presented with a £3K bill for a pair of front dampers  :grin:   Sometimes basic is better  :happy2:

Those Sachs dampers were best left to the 'must be original' brigade. Ohlins road & track or KW Clubsports probably a better option, and cheaper for a full set. A friend who has a 172 told me about those dampers, I nearly fell off my chair  :stupid:

With you on the other points you made  :happy2:  :fighting:

Would love some Ohlins for my ED30, but they're a third of the car's value  :surprised:  Do they not make just the dampers anymore for use with the OEM springs?

Sorry to go OT  :smiley: