MK5 Golf GTI
General => Detailing => Topic started by: mk5Eire on July 08, 2014, 10:24:18 pm
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While i have seen excellent results from machine polishing, particularly in jays detailing guide, i often ask the question is it really miles apart from doing everything by hand? Albeit by hand is a lot more time consuming and hard work. In terms of removing swirl marks i presume the machine will do a much better job than the hand?
Heres a pic of my passenger side which i done the other day. It was de tared, washed, clayed, washed followed by autoglym super resin polish and sealed with two coats of meguiars carnauba wax. I was quite happy with the shine i got and i did manage to remove a few swirl marks that were on the quarter panel. It was tough work though.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3851/14393535448_c8cecfb2e0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nVUCCh)
Can people post a few pics of the results they got from machine polishing? And do many on here do it all by hand? Reason im asking is im considering getting a machine polisher myself but im so used to doing cars by hand im kind of stuck in my ways :signLOL:
Thanks,
Sean.
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You clearly don't like your fingers.
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You can get good results by hand, fact. It just take up to 10 times as long. I can machine polish every panel on my car in 2 hours, and that with 5 passes on each section.
That would probably take you 5 days, and you would have no finger tips left. Machine polishing is so much easier and you have the option to use loads of differnt pads, from heavy compound all the way to light refinement. plus you can use it to apply sealants, glazes and waxes. Win win.
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Posting pictures is not really that much help. I can wash my car and take photos of it and it will look brilliant, when in fact it need machine polishing.
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Posting pictures is not really that much help. I can wash my car and take photos of it and it will look brilliant, when in fact it need machine polishing.
Because you can't see swirl marks in general photos? I agree
Sent from my iPhone that has issues.. Reception issues...
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I use a machine polisher mate and it tackles swirls/duff patches with ease. I would defo stick your hand in your pocket and buy a machine polisher and save the arthritis for another 20 years :signLOL:
I've got mine nearly 90% mark free now after 2 goes at a few hours of polishing :jumpmove:, i thought claying it made it look the dogs nuts but since I bought the DAS6 Pro with Menzerna products and a decent sealant for after the correction is done....i stare at my car every time it rains with one hand down my shorts :P
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What you've got to think though mate is using SRP only fills the swirl marks in. In a month or two time you'll need to do it again as it would of washed out and the exact same swirls would be visible again. If you tried using a cutting compound such as Menzerna FG400 (which I'm currently using on my machine polisher) it would take you hours and hours just to do a tiny little bit, especially with German paint as it's really tough. Whereas SRP fills the swirl marks, a cutting compound removes a very fine layer of the top coat thus getting rid of the swirl marks all together. The only way they would reappear is if the car isn't washed correctly and more swirl marks are caused.
As you can see using SRP does get you some amazing results by hand and I actually used it before I started machine polishing. I'd highly recommend getting a DA and giving it a go. Once you've done it once you shouldn't really need to do it again as long as you give it a safe wash everytime and be careful of contaminates.
As Rich said photos don't mean too much but I thought I'd post these anyway. All in all it's taken me 5 hours to do that side of the car and the bootlid. This is doing 4 passes with the cutting compound, 3 passes with a finishing polish and 1 layer of Collinite.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/s960x960/10494898_307968446037610_8597546366665225114_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10460448_307968449370943_4699260967411364113_n.jpg)
If you want to know anything else feel free to ask :). I'm no means a expert but I've learnt quite a few things since starting :)
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im no expert either but this is the results on my black Eddy
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fae104%2Fjakebraham%2Fimagejpg1_zps304b0fb6.jpg&hash=4e424938503bd866c1f632b11a3e0989fd16f925)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fae104%2Fjakebraham%2Fimagejpg2_zpsf36141a5.jpg&hash=3938c864c583c5ab301c0ecdbcfe46d74a8cd0e0)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fae104%2Fjakebraham%2Fimagejpg1_zps20353843.jpg&hash=5136a508368927810be283beefbecc6acac87fc3)
havent took any recent shots, these are about 6-8 weeks old :P
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im no expert either but this is the results on my black Eddy
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fae104%2Fjakebraham%2Fimagejpg1_zps304b0fb6.jpg&hash=4e424938503bd866c1f632b11a3e0989fd16f925)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fae104%2Fjakebraham%2Fimagejpg2_zpsf36141a5.jpg&hash=3938c864c583c5ab301c0ecdbcfe46d74a8cd0e0)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fae104%2Fjakebraham%2Fimagejpg1_zps20353843.jpg&hash=5136a508368927810be283beefbecc6acac87fc3)
havent took any recent shots, these are about 6-8 weeks old :P
That bonnet shot :surprised: Black really is the colour to drool at with a shine lol those are some excellent results! How long did you find the shine to last for after a few washes?
What you've got to think though mate is using SRP only fills the swirl marks in. In a month or two time you'll need to do it again as it would of washed out and the exact same swirls would be visible again. If you tried using a cutting compound such as Menzerna FG400 (which I'm currently using on my machine polisher) it would take you hours and hours just to do a tiny little bit, especially with German paint as it's really tough. Whereas SRP fills the swirl marks, a cutting compound removes a very fine layer of the top coat thus getting rid of the swirl marks all together. The only way they would reappear is if the car isn't washed correctly and more swirl marks are caused.
As you can see using SRP does get you some amazing results by hand and I actually used it before I started machine polishing. I'd highly recommend getting a DA and giving it a go. Once you've done it once you shouldn't really need to do it again as long as you give it a safe wash everytime and be careful of contaminates.
As Rich said photos don't mean too much but I thought I'd post these anyway. All in all it's taken me 5 hours to do that side of the car and the bootlid. This is doing 4 passes with the cutting compound, 3 passes with a finishing polish and 1 layer of Collinite.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/s960x960/10494898_307968446037610_8597546366665225114_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10460448_307968449370943_4699260967411364113_n.jpg)
If you want to know anything else feel free to ask :). I'm no means a expert but I've learnt quite a few things since starting :)
Very good post Dan i actually never realised that the resin polish only filled the swirl marks i had it in my had that it was slightly abrasive and that it removed them. I actually just bought myself a bottle of meguiars ultimate compound and i want to compound the whole car once just to have it done. I did find excellent results with the claybar but there are still a few small scratches which i think compound will erase!
So is compound the only solution to removing swirl marks or can you get a more abrasive polish to remove them?
Would you really need to do 4 passes with cutting compound? Is there any fear of burning through the paint? :scared:
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German paint is so hard, even doing 4 passes on speed 6 DA can leave a few swirl imperfection, often need 5-6. You would find it hard to damage the paint with compound solution unless you are a total buffoon.
SRP does have a small amount of cutting power, combined with filler. Thats why people think its so good, when really its only doing half a job.
Best combo is Menzerna Fast gloss 400 followed by Menzerna super finish or final finish (when i say best, Best for the money & IMO)
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Very good post Dan i actually never realised that the resin polish only filled the swirl marks i had it in my had that it was slightly abrasive and that it removed them. I actually just bought myself a bottle of meguiars ultimate compound and i want to compound the whole car once just to have it done. I did find excellent results with the claybar but there are still a few small scratches which i think compound will erase!
So is compound the only solution to removing swirl marks or can you get a more abrasive polish to remove them?
Would you really need to do 4 passes with cutting compound? Is there any fear of burning through the paint? :scared:
As said German paint is really tough and takes a lot to burn through it. The 1st time I did my car I gave it 5 passes and this time (the 2nd) I'm giving it 4 and it's all looking good so far. I've actually seen some really good results with the Meguiars Ultimate Compound by hand at a Meguiars Open Day I went to. It took some real good elbow grease but they managed to get rid of quite a few swirls. When you can afford it try getting a DAS6 Pro from Cleanyourcar.co.uk. Use that with a Orange Hex Logic Pad and you'll see the swirls disappear in no time :)
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That was actually my next question which pad to get for the polisher! I think if I end up getting one I'll practice on a scrap wing for a day or two and get comfortable with the machine.
Yeah I think I'll go with that compound, it better be good as it's not cheap!
Sent from my iPhone that has issues.. Reception issues...
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fae104%2Fjakebraham%2Fimagejpg1_zps20353843.jpg&hash=5136a508368927810be283beefbecc6acac87fc3)
havent took any recent shots, these are about 6-8 weeks old :P
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That bonnet shot :surprised: Black really is the colour to drool at with a shine lol those are some excellent results! How long did you find the shine to last for after a few washes?
Lasts a good few 3-4 washes mate to be fair though I really keep on top of it lately, washing her at least once a week and claying every 2 weeks. Washing correctly and not putting swirls in the paint is key
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There is a HUGE difference between hand and machine polishing.
I wouldn't bother hand polishing, glazing by hand is fine but hand polishing, you simply cannot get an even coverage of pressure, effort and product. Machines work far faster and they are consistent so you can get a consistent result. I have seen horrible hazes from hand polishing especially if you're using polishes which have a long work time and take a long time to break down into their finer "finishing" particulate sizes.
A light source shows a million things... this is not a dig at anyone in particular, I'm just purely trying to educate people. you need a fixed light source on a panel in a position to highlight swirls, scratches etc. A side on shot shows nothing especially on a black car... LITERALLY none the wiser - amazing what a light source shows...
From a couple of cars up at DMC towers
(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10172711_679559755460251_6046240049017421772_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10435836_673430392739854_529255033971531332_n.jpg)
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Amzing the difference there, I defo need to get a DA polisher, keep putting it off.
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There is a HUGE difference between hand and machine polishing.
I wouldn't bother hand polishing, glazing by hand is fine but hand polishing, you simply cannot get an even coverage of pressure, effort and product. Machines work far faster and they are consistent so you can get a consistent result. I have seen horrible hazes from hand polishing especially if you're using polishes which have a long work time and take a long time to break down into their finer "finishing" particulate sizes.
A light source shows a million things... this is not a dig at anyone in particular, I'm just purely trying to educate people. you need a fixed light source on a panel in a position to highlight swirls, scratches etc. A side on shot shows nothing especially on a black car... LITERALLY none the wiser - amazing what a light source shows...
(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10172711_679559755460251_6046240049017421772_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10435836_673430392739854_529255033971531332_n.jpg)
Wow jay that's really after opening my eyes. I'm almost Afraid to go on and put some light on mine it must be destroyed.
How naive I was to think I was actually removing the marks by hand :-/
Sent from my iPhone that has issues.. Reception issues...
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That was actually my next question which pad to get for the polisher! I think if I end up getting one I'll practice on a scrap wing for a day or two and get comfortable with the machine.
Yeah I think I'll go with that compound, it better be good as it's not cheap!
Sent from my iPhone that has issues.. Reception issues...
That's what I did mate :). Got a bonnet for £10 from the scrap yard and I was surprised at how easy it was to get a good result.
Finished my bonnet earlier, I haven't got any fancy lights but my phone light managed to pick a few out. Waiting to get it into the sun tomorrow to see how good or bad it's come out.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fi402%2Fdanmaytee90%2F3_zps682f7360.jpg&hash=39ece8d72ad5eefa85bd9f992536206c414af357)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fi402%2Fdanmaytee90%2F4_zpsc2f7e18d.jpg&hash=295926d9759aea268dff889ac1ba3c9080a331f2)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fi402%2Fdanmaytee90%2F1_zps593fdb08.jpg&hash=7c0a9dca7743a9f4f66861050616b8a60a2b3827)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fi402%2Fdanmaytee90%2F2_zps2212634b.jpg&hash=b1e8b3aa52c60e4f4bcbb92006611b627ead89e9)
You can get a 500w halogen floodlight for around £15 off eBay which will show alot of the swirls. I keep meaning to actually buy one but every time I get paid I forget. I've spent around 13 hours on the car so far so I'm hoping at least 80% of them have gone. Got the N/S Wing, doors and rear quarter to do tomorrow then I'm done!
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Wow jay that's really after opening my eyes. I'm almost Afraid to go on and put some light on mine it must be destroyed.
How naive I was to think I was actually removing the marks by hand :-/
Sent from my iPhone that has issues.. Reception issues...
You can remove scratches and swirls by hand but it's very hard work, and the finish is not as good because you can't get an even coverage and pressure as mentioned.
I'd stick with hand glazing using SRP etc. But these products do also work well via machine especially on softer paint, not that that really effects our Golfs.
You will get some improvement with a "hand polish" but personally not worth the time, just glaze it and wax/seal it until you can do it proper :happy2:
Main point of having a light source is to see exactly what you're doing and what you're actually removing.
Just makes me laugh all the people who are like "just polished & waxed my car it looks SOOOO GOOD" and then take a side on shot with no direct light, that's just the detailer in me screaming out but at the same time people can take it the wrong way, not doing it to put people down but to hopefully show them and educate them to spot and work and improve on their paintwork :)
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I'm going to purchase a machine polisher myself, due to always doing it by hand. A friend machined my loop and it still looks good now, although it could do with poss going over again. My red gti doesn't look anywhere near as good even when clean.
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Ive recently bought myself a DA polisher ( kestral das 6). Ive only tried the bonnet which turned out quite good with the megs microfibre pad and compound.And that was me working cautiously ( little pressure and "fast passes") Couldn't get any pics since i destroyed my phone in the process!! but will hopefully be working on the rest of the car when i get some time.
I've thrown everything at the car when it came to hand correction and on these cars its a total waste of time. The paint is too hard for anything to work my hand. Don't be fooled like it was when you see before and after pics/vids on swirl correction.
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I've just got the DAS6 DA after years of hand polishing , wish I'd of bought it years ago
So much easier :happy2:
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Need to buy one too
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Anyone got any thoughts on the dodo juice buff daddy? It's a das6 dual action, thinking of buying one soon seems well priced at £100 with carry case, all the ones on cleanyourcar are out of stock :confused:
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buy a das6 pro from CYC. they will have them back soon.
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Ive just clayed, machined (megs 205) and waxed my united grey GT sport tdi
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.org%2Fzapdlt3n1%2F10565134_508138829318918_2029218010292265621_n.jpg&hash=abfca8562bd6a7ecbb326ddecdaea5fe07dcfd22)
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What's the difference between a normal das6 da and a das6 pro?
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More Powerful motor and longer cord .
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Ive got the DAS6 Pro. had it a few years now and done many cars.