MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Technical Workshop => Topic started by: RedRobin on November 05, 2009, 11:49:02 pm
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I'm assuming that the ESP/ABS/EDS either kicks in according to presets in the ECU or 'smartly' (S.M.A.R.T. = Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting, Technology) - But which? Smartly and dynamically flexible, or using preset instructions, both according to information from the various sensors.
My money is on it being 'smartly'. I think this because of how such aftermarket additions such a mechanical Quaife differential prompt different instructions and also because of how constantly changing road surface conditions prompt reactions dynamically - Things which tangibly translate into feedback to the driver.
I also hope that this is the case because when the system is faced with aftermarket suspension and brake modifications, it wouldn't be very safe if the car's ECU brain stuck rigidly to any fixed preset. But perhaps the ECU is stuck with working according to fixed or limited thresholds - I just don't know as I'm not an electronics engineer or similar - I'm a retired fartist.
Apart from suspension, I'm wondering how 'smart' or 'preset' the ECU's reaction is to brake modifications - To the extent of fitting aftermarket brakes or oem from another model. Aspects such as braking bias between front and rear and whether the instructions which the ECU/ABS/EDS sends to the brakes take into account that the hardware may not be necessarily oem. I guess it responds to how the brakes effect what's happening, whatever type the brakes are - But it is only my guess.
On the other hand, as any computer or ECU uses algorithms, the implication is that presets may play a bigger part. If so, what extent of parameters have the German boffins designed into the system I wonder.
Ultimately, all this is somewhat academic because all that really matters is how the car behaves when subjected to various circumstances and scenarios and how you, the driver, then respond. But I'm curious and it is always helpful to have at least a basic understanding of how things work.
Can anyone here throw any light onto this dark subject? - Schlechtwegefahrwerk!!
:happy2:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRED_INK%2FAspirinHeadache.jpg&hash=229c2ea5963c0e3d468cf9a0002f0ec842152251)
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Wow, that was wordy....
I understand it to be dynamic, after all what use are hard wired settings for a hot, dry day on a diesel covered wet road?
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As tony_d says and to be honest as you can't change it why worry about it. :confused:
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no idea Robin :signLOL:
but some info on the sensors at
VW Golf/Jetta/Bora (1K/5M) ross tech wiki (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/VW_Golf/Jetta/Bora_(1K/5M))
which has a link to
brake electronics (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/VW_Golf_(1K)_Brake_Electronics_(MK60))
and also
ESP_System_Function_Test (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/ESP_System_Function_Test_(Conti/Teves))
also relates to the configuration TT mentioned related to fitting R32 brakes to a gti in the electronics
not sure if its all relevant but still worth a read :happy2:
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As tony_d says and to be honest as you can't change it why worry about it. :confused:
....I'm not at all worried about it - As I said, it's ultimately academic. But I do find the subject slightly interesting: Not in great depth of geekiness but more about what happens.
Off to read john_o's links :drinking:
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no idea Robin :signLOL:
but some info on the sensors at
VW Golf/Jetta/Bora (1K/5M) ross tech wiki (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/VW_Golf/Jetta/Bora_(1K/5M))
which has a link to
brake electronics (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/VW_Golf_(1K)_Brake_Electronics_(MK60))
and also
ESP_System_Function_Test (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/ESP_System_Function_Test_(Conti/Teves))
also relates to the configuration TT mentioned related to fitting R32 brakes to a gti in the electronics
not sure if its all relevant but still worth a read :happy2:
....Hmm, thanks for those links but they seem to be more about diagnostics and tests, and a bit above my head. I think I'll go and try to find TT's post you mention (but not necessarily take it as gospel - I still love ya, Sean!).
Cheers :happy2:
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The ASB/EDL/ASR/BA/ESP all perform to a fixed map. It does NOT employ any kind of 'fuzzy logic' with variable triggering. It just reaches preset threshold levels - then just works.
Hooooooooooowwwwwwwweeeeeeevvvvveeeeerrrrrr . . . . the entire system CAN be recalibrated - especially useful if you've changed your boots from less-grippy to a more-grippy flavour. Sommat I found by 'accident' a while back when fiddling with VCDS. So if you find your ABS kicking in earlier than what you might consider for 'better' tyres (PS2s, Cup, road legal tracks, etc) - then get hooking yr lappy up and go for it. It makes quite a difference. :wink:
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Hooooooooooowwwwwwwweeeeeeevvvvveeeeerrrrrr . . . . the entire system CAN be recalibrated - especially useful if you've changed your boots from less-grippy to a more-grippy flavour. Sommat I found by 'accident' a while back when fiddling with VCDS. So if you find your ABS kicking in earlier than what you might consider for 'better' tyres (PS2s, Cup, road legal tracks, etc) - then get hooking yr lappy up and go for it. It makes quite a difference. :wink:
....Oooooh! Pleeeeeeeeease tell! Please tell us where in VCDS to access such tyre settings. T'would be so especially helpful for when Noodleburgering.
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Hooooooooooowwwwwwwweeeeeeevvvvveeeeerrrrrr . . . . the entire system CAN be recalibrated - especially useful if you've changed your boots from less-grippy to a more-grippy flavour. Sommat I found by 'accident' a while back when fiddling with VCDS. So if you find your ABS kicking in earlier than what you might consider for 'better' tyres (PS2s, Cup, road legal tracks, etc) - then get hooking yr lappy up and go for it. It makes quite a difference. :wink:
....Oooooh! Pleeeeeeeeease tell! Please tell us where in VCDS to access such tyre settings. T'would be so especially helpful for when Noodleburgering.
Red leader - it isn't a tyre setting - it is simply a setting for the ABS/ESP module. It is specifically for recalibrating when any new 'hardware' has been fitted. But being as this includes a functional test of tyre grip, it will then calibrate the thresholds to account for differing grip levels. :wink:
The detail is in the RossTech wiki - but just make sure your tyres are hot and sticky before carrying out said adaptation. :happy2:
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oo , go on then , wheres the link to the specific test?
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oo , go on then , wheres the link to the specific test?
Lazy sod! :grin:
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/ESP_System_Function_Test_%28Conti/Teves%29
WARNING - do NOT activate this if you are not able to complete the test.
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oo , go on then , wheres the link to the specific test?
Lazy sod! :grin:
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/ESP_System_Function_Test_%28Conti/Teves%29
WARNING - do NOT activate this if you are not able to complete the test.
why what happens? LOL :evilgrin: :fighting: :laugh: :rolleye: :signLOL:
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The ASB/EDL/ASR/BA/ESP all perform to a fixed map. It does NOT employ any kind of 'fuzzy logic' with variable triggering. It just reaches preset threshold levels - then just works.
Yes, it ''just'' compare each wheels speed, car acceleration in every direction, steering angle, and then calculate if the car goes in the direction the driver input at the steering and if not, that means skidding car.
Then it control the brakes and throttle to make the car drive in the direction given by the steering wheel. And all of this is pre calibrated.
@ REDROBIN
If you change suspensions, tyres, swaybars, brakes, LSD, it will still works, because it still compare speed, angle and acceleration, but less accuratly.
For exemple, when you lift up the back inner wheel (like it does on my car) then ESP think you lose control (as this wheel slow down) and it activate the brakes. So ESP try to keep control that you didn't lose.
I don't bother during normal use as correction are very small.
But I don't trust blind electronique while driving fast.
Even more because ESP ''ON'' in a turn, if the rear of car is skidding and you counter steer, ESP will think you want to go in the other direction, I'm note sure the result is what you expected. So it will be a mess because there would be two driver on bord.
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^^^^
@ Laurent:
So I am learning as I get faster on the 'Ring. I'll be going slower with ESP off and gradually build up to faster still with it off there methinks. Best do a trackday in the UK with run-off areas first perhaps.
You're never too old to learn! :happy2: