MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Sat Nav and Car Audio => Topic started by: dazza on December 10, 2014, 09:47:43 am
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I thought i would be happy with an RNS 510 and sub but i guess not. Even with the bass set to <0 on the stock speakers there is distortion.
I'm looking for some 3 ways that don't require modification.
What are the options??
Focal 165 A3
Hertz HSK163
FOCAL 165VR3 POLYGLASS VR3
What i have at the moment
JL Audio JX500/1D Monoblock Class D Amplifier
JL Audio 10W0V3 10 Inch Sub
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I have the Hertz ESK163.L
Very very high quality, great sound quality.
Only issue is fitting the mids in the fronts, it's a big pain in the arse to get them to mount up as the doorcard gets in the way. It does fit on but it took us like an hour per doorcard just to connect them back down.
For a while, didn't even have the mids in and it still sounded much better than the stock 3 way setup.
Just ensure you have the car sound deadened or all your extra audio punch will be wasted.
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Do the hertz ones need any special mounts etc??
What amp are you using?
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As with any aftermarket speaker you need the large 16cm adaptor or you can make your own with some wood.
If you buy the Connects2 ones they will need trimming.
They were not being powered from an amp, just the pioneer HU.
When we re-do it in my Scirocco I will have an MTX mono amp for the sub and a Hertz 4ch for the speakers as I bought another set of Hertz components for the rear as well
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Thanks for your help Jay.
I think i will just switch out the fronts first. Unless i can fit a LOC/amp under the wifes seat.
Start on a little boot build at a later date.
Its all very confusing as usual.
I suppose most of these will sound much better than stock. Just which one to choose?
Also seen Rainbow IQ 320.25 @ £395 this is a bit more plug and play?
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Yeah, I only did the fronts in my Golf :)
Does show up how poor the rear speakers are comparitively to the uprated front ones.
I'd recommend sticking with one brand for front and rear, just makes more sense.
For my hertz one you just trim the tweeter covers on the car to fit the hertz tweeters in straight away.
the larger 16 inch speakers bolt up with the adaptors.
The worst thing is trying to mount the crossover units as they're so big!! take the big covers off. :signLOL:
No idea really on that stuff, I am not that good with audio, only what my buddy Jairm tells me and what i've found personally.
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What are the options for the back in a 3 door?
All i can find are the Rainbow IQ 165 CX what would the rainbows front and rear sound like??
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Why specifically the Rainbows?
Any component set up will work.
believe the rear doors are larger 16cm speaker and tweeter unit.
at least that's what i have for my scirococ!!! Haha.
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The rainbows are plug and play also have the correct connectors supposedly.
I know others will work just struggling to find what fits easily and works well. Plus i have no idea about this stuff.
A lot of people have installed all of the below in the front but not much info regarding what people have used in the back with these.
Focal 165 A3
Hertz HSK163
FOCAL 165VR3 POLYGLASS VR3
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I have a friend who installed a 2 way speaker kit from Hertz in the back with a 3 way speaker kit from Hertz also in the front. He has a Golf with 3 doors but for what I understood you can fit the same kit for either 3 doors or 5 doors.
I'd look for the best kit from Hertz you'd be willing to buy for all your speakers.
Since I don't think I'll need an amp he recommended me for the front the Hertz ESK163L.5 - Energy Line - 3 Way 16.5cm 6.5" Car Components Speakers 250W. You can get them from ebay for ~£181.74 + shipping cost: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171429003544 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171429003544).
I hope I was helpful because I know near to nothing about this stuff. :innocent:
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Thanks for your help guys this is what i'm thinking.
ESK163L 3-WAY - FRONT
ESK165L 2-WAY SYSTEM Rear
or save my self a bit of time and use these ECX165 2-WAY COAXIAL
4 of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Phonocar-913-Loudspeaker-Adaptors-Volkswagen/dp/B0067TGH6Y/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418289782&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=165mm+Speaker+Adaptor+golf
JL AUDIO JX360/4
This amp can accept speaker level inputs but thinking a LOC would be better??
LOC
AudioControl LC6i
AudioControl DQ61
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Some wiring work will need to be done if you fit the ESK163L speakers but nothing major. Only splitting the wires down to the crossover unit and then running the wires to the speakers.
OK so it's a bit of a pain in the butt but the extra sound quality is worth it over older OEM wiring.
You will need 4 of the ring adaptors
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With the rears i may just run new wires as it should be easy with a two door. Would like to do the front also but it seems a pita.
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@Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) whats the difference between the ESK163L and ESK163L.5
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@Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) whats the difference between the ESK163L and ESK163L.5
In Hertz official page there are no ESK163L, just ESK163L.5 that is a 3 way system.
Looking at ESK165.5 and ESK165L.5, that are 2 way systems, the L means a better low frequency response, I think.
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Thanks mate i think i was on the wrong site.
I will go for
ESK163L.5
ESK165L.5
Hopefully will make a massive improvement we will see.
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Please review them after installing. I hope you'll like them because I think if I ever go that route of upgrading my speakers I'll get those speakers as well. :happy2:
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I will try my best mate. Lately all of my installs seem to go pear shaped.
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I've ordered the speakers and brackets.
What about sound deadening any suggestions on what brand?
Also anything else i will need?
Not installing the amp and loc now just the speakers.
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Buy a decent bitumen based one from Ebay
I pay about £25 for 10m x 30mm . Don't need a fancy brand one.
No point installing the speakers until you install the amp (personally) but this depends how you are wiring up the speakers/amp whether you are running amp wires back to each speaker or bridging them further up.
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i found that the RNS510 only puts out 20watts per channel so i had to run an amp as well.
the back of my stereo is now a cluster of those crimp splice things and LOCs. but the difference was worth it. i personally didnt bother with sound deadening as lets face it, its a car, not a recording studio. your never going to get class A audio from a car.
true you can argue get the best you can with what you got. but just seems a waste of money. might go down that route later on but for now, its as good as it'll get.
those splice things, they work nicely. definatly get those, 8 for £3 in halfords. you'll want 2 packs if your going dual LOC as the one pack will do the speaker wires but you also need another 2 for grounding the locs.
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Thanks guys i've not really thought to much about the amp install yet.
I wanted to match the Monoblock amp i already have with the JL Audio JX360/4. Will 70 watts RMS be enough?
It states 70 W RMS @ 14.4V and 55 W RMS @ 12.5V :confused:
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i personally didnt bother with sound deadening as lets face it, its a car, not a recording studio. your never going to get class A audio from a car.
Definiately sound deaden the car!!!!!!
I bought enough to sound deaden three cars fully for £70 and had plenty left over.
It helps stop rattles and keeps more of the sound produced by the speakers inside of the car rather than rattling away, and helps to keep SOME of the road noise out.
a big difference and sound deadening alone will make a positive impact to your audio quality.
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Spent a bit more money. Soundproofing, power cable, distributor blocks, rca's and a second hand LOC (6 Channel).
Just need to decide on the amp now. Options please!
What RMS should i be looking at for these?
ESK163L.5
ESK165L.5
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Think i have everything now went for the JL AUDIO JX360/4 in the end.
Now i need to decide where and how i'm going to mount the two amps and loc.
What are the options?
Could i mount them on a board under the parcel shelf?
If anyone has any pics of their setups that would be great.
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Create a box.
Wouldn't do it on parcel shelf.
means you can't ever take anything big in your car.
running wires would be a nightmare.
my amp was under my false floor for my air ride .
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I was thinking of mounting under the parcel shelf and making it removable.
Or having them on board against the back seats. Removable also.
When you say box you mean false floor? If i did this i'd like to get the sub in the floor also i hate the ebay side mount box. But my woodworking skills are sh*t. And i have OCD.
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there is pleanty of space behind the head unit for the LOC.
using these (halfords sell them) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/160882563023?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108
as for the amps, under the front seats is a pretty easy place as you have the seat bolts for the ground and pillars to route cables in and out of.
how are you wiring them in? i used 4 gauge cable from battery to a distribution block then 8 gauge to the amps and 8 gauge grounding to different spots as amps are in seperate places.
might seem silly saying it, but a few things to remember as easily overlooked,
fuse size; at the battery, make sure your running the right fuse size if your running 2 amps,
power lines one side, RCA's the other of the car.
trim clips...did you get a plastic pry bar to remove the trims?
other issues i had was a switched 12v source for the remote on. in the end i went over the 12v socket at the drivers ashtray with a multimeter to check it was switched, on mine it is so i wired in there.
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I already have a monoblock amp under the drivers seat.
The 4 channel amp will not fit under the seat.
The LOC is massive i doubt it will fit behind the headunit.
Pic below with the two amps the smaller amp is the one i have under the seat at the moment.
I'm going to run 4 gauge to distributor block then 4 gauge to the amps.
The distributor block can also take 4 grounds so its best i get the amps close together.
100 or 120amp fuse off battery 50amp fuses for each amp.
The LOC has signal sensing and a remote out to send to the amps.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fimages%2Fr002.jpg&hash=7c64ecfcd4507030f24f115bb67930305555c4dd)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Faa333%2Ftjswarbrick%2FAmpRack_zps6482eae7.jpg&hash=d50018383835be4081ca8db7ceeebed723c8b73d)
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not sure running 4 to 2 4 is the best idea. if both amps require 4 gauge to operate then you will put too much load through the primary. if you only need 8 gauge from the block then your adding extra resistance. thats from a sparkie background.
up to you it will work but seems the extra resistance wont be a good thing long term.
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The amps manual say 4 gauge is needed.
The 4 gauge from the battery is good for up to 150amps.
Running a 0 or 0/1 gauge to distributor block is a bit of an overkill?
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if the either of the amps manual says to use 4 gauge from the battery to the amp, use 0 gauge from the battery > fuse > distribution block
then 4 gauge from the block to the amp
even if the cable is good for 150 amps, and your using amp fuse, if the fuse is faulty and doesnt blow in the event of an overload and the amp pulls 150+ amps you risk burning the wire out and setting fire to the car.
both my amps only need 8 gauge so i ran 4 gauge from battery to fuse and to the block then 8 gauge from the block to the amps.
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I will be placing 50 amp fuses in the distributor block one for each amp.
With a 100amp or 120amp fuse off the battery. Surely this is safe?
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the fuse rating in my last post was just an example.
the risk is one amp drawing enough amperage that the other amp drawing amps will go past the 4 gauge cables limits between the battery and the block.
when you google through for videos about multiple amps in cars they will tell you double the gauge wire from battery to block for that reason.
check it out ;)
0 gauge wire isnt too expensive and its best to run it just in case.
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http://www.caraudiohelp.com/newsletter/multiple_amplifiers.html
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fookit already bought the 4 gauge now. Went for KnuKonceptz 4 gauge kit its supposedly good quality. Will see how it compares against the budget 4 gauge i have at the moment.
There will be 3 fuses and the wire is good up to 150amps should be fine with these little amps.
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well thats your car haha. check the amp manuals for maxmimum amperage draw and add them together, ensure they are WELL below 150 amps.
as for 3 fuses, you know thats going to give you a headache later if/when a fuse blows right? haha. its good to be safe and all though.
most will have the main fuse at the battery and the fuses in the amps. thats what im running, the fuse i have at the battery has a 3 amp leeway so it can only surge 3amps over the max amp drain of the 2 amps together.
budget/high end wire there is little difference, not when it comes to this size cable and application. speaker wires, video cables, very thin wires then yeah it will make a difference but this is big bulky cable. its all the same under different brands.
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As i've said the amplifiers are 50amp so they are well below the 150.
Some amps don't have internal fuses hence the 2 in the distributor block.
I disagree regarding the power cable sometimes you do get what you pay for.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fcardboardcat15%2FBuild_Log%2FP3160036.jpg&hash=8f58f8611876088a408d0d429cddfed32f4e44ac)
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assuming it was purchased as 4 gauge, that is an illigal product as it cant handle the standard amperage for 4 gauge cable.
trading standards would love to see that.
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Thats just a pic i found online.
I will post pics of my budget wire vs KnuKonceptz when i receive it.
I'm interested to see if there is a massive difference.
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got to admit im quite interested too.
that thicker core cable, the fact you have the center core then seperate cores around it, doing it that way just makes the overal cable thicker, elctronically, its more of a draw back but it looks cool and keeps customers happy haha.
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Pic of the KnuKonceptz 4 gauge vs the 4 gauge i used last time. Well worth the extra £10.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fimages%2F20141224_192208_resized.jpg&hash=e690b34a0fb071e7e4b9b4239b15caba753f7878)
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Sorry I have lots of questions but didn't know whether to start a new thread or join this one.
1) Someone said the speaker pods you buy need trimming down. Where and how much?
2) If I were to keep the standard head unit (i believe RNS500) I read somewhere on here as you turn the volume up the bass is reduced. Can you turn this off and how?
3) If I chose to put some sound deadening in is it best to do a) behind the speaker (so outside of the door); b) around the speaker and or c) the back of the door panel?
4) Currently have the standard 3 ways in. How much do I need to spend to get better speakers? I have the old equivalent of the 6.5" JL TR650Csi (but not CSIs) 2 way component. Whould this be an upgrade??
Thanks
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Sorry I have lots of questions but didn't know whether to start a new thread or join this one.
1) Someone said the speaker pods you buy need trimming down. Where and how much?
2) If I were to keep the standard head unit (i believe RNS500) I read somewhere on here as you turn the volume up the bass is reduced. Can you turn this off and how?
3) If I chose to put some sound deadening in is it best to do a) behind the speaker (so outside of the door); b) around the speaker and or c) the back of the door panel?
4) Currently have the standard 3 ways in. How much do I need to spend to get better speakers? I have the old equivalent of the 6.5" JL TR650Csi (but not CSIs) 2 way component. Whould this be an upgrade??
Thanks
1. I bought these they fit perfectly no cutting. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0067TGH6Y?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
2. Not sure on this.
3. I deadened the inner and outer skin completely. I may even deaden the door card at a later date.
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,90967.msg931272.html#msg931272
4. The more you spend the better IMO. I will have a set of ESK 165L and ESK 163L in the for sale section soon.
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Thanks Dazza. We are truly skint after buying the car and just want to use the equipment we already have. Especially if we are going to need to buy a new radio. And I have just forked out for some aftermarket headlights for my own ride.
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You should be able to add a two way set. I don't see why it would sound bad. Do you have a sub? A lot of people stick with the stock speakers and add a sub to fill out the bass.
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Yep. Her old set up we still have is a kenwood 10" sub and 4 ch amp with cheap 6.5 jl components. Prob got to buy new head unit either alpine or looking at our first kenwood
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Sorry I have lots of questions but didn't know whether to start a new thread or join this one.
1) Someone said the speaker pods you buy need trimming down. Where and how much?
2) If I were to keep the standard head unit (i believe RNS500) I read somewhere on here as you turn the volume up the bass is reduced. Can you turn this off and how?
3) If I chose to put some sound deadening in is it best to do a) behind the speaker (so outside of the door); b) around the speaker and or c) the back of the door panel?
4) Currently have the standard 3 ways in. How much do I need to spend to get better speakers? I have the old equivalent of the 6.5" JL TR650Csi (but not CSIs) 2 way component. Whould this be an upgrade??
Thanks
2) This is correct although I'm not sure exactly how much it reduces it. You can't just turn it off or reprogram it.
2 options.
1: Go for an after market headunit. You can get some good direct replacement ones by kenwood that look pretty OEM and they will sound a lot better as their internal amp will be more powerful than the OEM head unit. Depending on the spec of the head unit you buy it will also give you bluetooth and sub pre out etc.
2: If you really want to keep the 100% OEM look get an Audison Bit ten digital sound processor. This is what I've done personally as I wanted to keep my RCD510DAB. that said the RCD510DAB already has a better internal amp than the older generation RNS500 you have, plus by the time you've bought the Audison Bit ten (approx £200-£300 depending if you buy new or from eBay) plus then you will need to amplify that set up (Another £300+ plus all the wiring) you might be better just going for the kenwood head unit. Just plug and play and you don't necessarily NEED to use another amplifier.. unless your going for big power.
3) For sound deadening you want to do any large thin metal surface and anything that rattles when you hit it.
This is a pic for instance of the door of my van which I've just done.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F02%2F10%2F294180279222e16f4bdccc51d47abc2b.jpg&hash=1733666f966b299bc9351dbc4530aa91282e0249)
That was 3 sheets of silent coat 2mm damping mat.
I then covered the back of the door card with 5mm dodo liner closed cell foam which is a noise barrier and also helps prevent any little rattles on the door card. On my golf door card I actually used a bit more of the silent coat damping matt first as there were a few rattles from bits on the back of the door then i used 9mm noise barrier on the golf.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F01%2F20%2Fcbca5b3a7865287d271cf6af99cf5cb0.jpg&hash=90cedf246c3364f6aaa618b48aa3240655fbd0ae)
3) The reason the golf is 3 way is because the 165mm woofer is in a terrible location down my your hip. Sound should come from in front of you (A reason why I advise people not to bother upgrading and amplifying their rear speakers). So the golf has a mid and a tweeter up infront of you seating position. I've not heard a 2 way set up in a mk5 golf but if you have the right cross over frequencies so its still sending vocals to the tweeter then it might sound ok.
All of this said.. the standard speakers are not that bad and personally they would be the last place I'd start if I were trying to improve the sound... unless they are blown already in which case changing them for working speakers will make a difference
I'd spend the money on the head unit first. That will make the biggest difference. If you then find the standard speaker are struggling to cope with the extra power (they won't, the new head unit will put out approx 50w per channel so they will be fine) then upgrade the speakers.