MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Poverty on November 18, 2009, 08:27:18 pm
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Copy and pasted from SCN, just want to see what the response is on this site.
I am interested to know just how many VAG 2.0T's have the 5200rpm "flat spot".
What basically happens is that the car pulls cleanly to 5200rpm at which point it may hesitate/stop pulling as hard for approx 500-750rpm then pull again after that. In an S3 I know of, it was described as feeling as if the car drops in to limp mode at 5200rpm until approx 6000rpm at which point it begins to pull again.
Ta
Horace
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mines good all the way through the revs but its not often i really boot it on normal roads because of speed limits :chicken:
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what map is that. had exactly the same when i had my bluefin stage 2+ installed. I had two of said flat spots, 4.5k and aobout 5.2-5.5k.
this new map has solved that no more flat spots :happy2:
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Copy and pasted from SCN, just want to see what the response is on this site.
I am interested to know just how many VAG 2.0T's have the 5200rpm "flat spot".
What basically happens is that the car pulls cleanly to 5200rpm at which point it may hesitate/stop pulling as hard for approx 500-750rpm then pull again after that. In an S3 I know of, it was described as feeling as if the car drops in to limp mode at 5200rpm until approx 6000rpm at which point it begins to pull again.
Ta
Horace
I would say check all of the normal stuff first..
Plugs
PCV
DV
Fuel pump cam follower
Then Panic! :scared: :wink:
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plugs are on my list now. the rest are all new
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plugs are on my list now. the rest are all new
What map is on the car?
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custom one by shark performance
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custom one by shark performance
Has it always done it? Or developed slowly.. Or suddenly appeared?
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got it when i went to stage 2 bluefin, and it was still there with stage 2+ but thankfully have gone now.
just waiting for before and after logs to come back from when i had the remap done. it might shed some light.
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IMO you need to log the car looking at boost, fuel rail pressure and timing pull at minimum.
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IMO you need to log the car looking at boost, fuel rail pressure and timing pull at minimum.
Yeah if you just do some logs on requested and actual boost and timing pull and engine load etc that will shed some light on it..
Or just get Revo to map it :wink:
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IMO you need to log the car looking at boost, fuel rail pressure and timing pull at minimum.
yeah we took logs of all that and more iirc. before on stage 2+ bluefin. and after on shark performance.
waiting for ben to sort all the graphs out for me and email them through
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IMO you need to log the car looking at boost, fuel rail pressure and timing pull at minimum.
Yeah if you just do some logs on requested and actual boost and timing pull and engine load etc that will shed some light on it..
Or just get Revo to map it :wink:
The 6 cars that are known by the SCN member to have the flat spot are all running revo. 1 stage 2, the rest all stage 2 plus :scared:
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Wasnt there a batch of 08, S3's doing the same thing a while back.
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This sounds suspisciously like Nadeem's issue (Illyun)
There's a ton of info on it and he ended up dropping back from stage 2+ to stage 2. Strangely only affects certain cars and isn't particularly specific to manual or DSG either. Mine has been fine, but I think it was tending to be later cars from 57 reg onwards that suffered more.
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3242.0
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I have this on my car too and i have always thought (and been told by revo) its the ecu holding back,,, i was advised to get the fuel pump but even people with the fuel pump are having the same issue.
you can actually see the flat spot here on my graph
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg202.imageshack.us%2Fimg202%2F3240%2Fstage2h8twp.jpg&hash=e0f151c48e9a5ce20dfb552edb4f081541087d78)
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Seems a common issue with a few of us over on SCN with Revo. There was a misfire issue bulletin from Revo on 08 engine I'll try and find it.
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This is NOT a software issue;
this will be related to the TSB VAG currently have out on the valve springs in K04 cars..... depending on how old the vehicle is and how restrictive your exhaust is will depend on if the issue is apparent on the vehicle, our K1 has no such issue, none of the cars i have setup have had this issue unless they are within the said VAG TSB.
sorry to be blunt but i want it to be clear for you all so you are all well informed! :smiley:
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Yep sorry i didn't mean it was Revo specific. Just the bulletin came from Revo.
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This is NOT a software issue;
this will be related to the TSB VAG currently have out on the valve springs in K04 cars..... depending on how old the vehicle is and how restrictive your exhaust is will depend on if the issue is apparent on the vehicle, our K1 has no such issue, none of the cars i have setup have had this issue unless they are within the said VAG TSB.
sorry to be blunt but i want it to be clear for you all so you are all well informed! :smiley:
Carl are you able to post more details from the TSB - specifically the build dates of the cars effected? I'm looking at K04 cars at the moment, so would like to be aware of any potential issues.
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I just copied and pasted this from a TT forum, maybe it is related
sorry for caps i just copied and pasted...
"REMOVE VALVE COVER AND THE COLOR OF THE VALVE SPRINGS IS WHITE & YELLOW. REQUIRE REPLACEMENT.
FOLLOWED ELSA PROCEDURE TO REMOVE HIGH PRESSURE PUMP. CYLINDER HEAD COVER. TIMING BELT. CAMSHAFT ADJUSTER. CAMSHAFT GUIDE PLATE. CAMSHAFTS. R&R VALVE SPRINGS AND VALVE KEEPERS. FOLLOWED ELSA TO REMOVE VACUUM PUMP AND CAMSHAFT ADJUSTER.
REMOUNTED ALL REMOVED PARTS IN RESPECT TO ELSA INSTRUCTIONS AS IN TIMING BELT. CAMSHAFTS. CAMSHAFT ADJUSTER. GUIDE PLATE FOR CMASHAFTS. CYLINDER HEAD COVER.HIGH PRESSURE PUMP. REFILLED COOLANT SYSTEM. CLEARED ALL FAULTS. TEST DROVE VEHICLE. RE SCANNED AND NO MISFIRE FAULTS PRESENT."
So, if your valve springs are White and Yellow, they are the wrong ones, apparently.
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This is NOT a software issue;
this will be related to the TSB VAG currently have out on the valve springs in K04 cars..... depending on how old the vehicle is and how restrictive your exhaust is will depend on if the issue is apparent on the vehicle, our K1 has no such issue, none of the cars i have setup have had this issue unless they are within the said VAG TSB.
sorry to be blunt but i want it to be clear for you all so you are all well informed! :smiley:
So its the valve springs then, and if I get them changed the flat spot should go away? How comes you guys havent made this aware to your dealers? Also I emailed you guys about the flat spot and there was no mention of it possibly being related to the valves
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Good option to go and get supertech valvetrain fitted then :evilgrin: :wink:
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Good option to go and get supertech valvetrain fitted then :evilgrin: :wink:
Im starting to think maybe im better off getting rid. Absolute love how the cupra looks and all the stares it gets, but the 2.0TFSI is just too tempermental a engine for me. Plus stage 2 plus isnt quick enough for me either, so perhaps its time for me to think about stop throwing good money after bad and just get a evo x and throw money at that instead.
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Am thinking exactly the same thing.
but not an evo
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so perhaps its time for me to think about stop throwing good money after bad and just get a evo x and throw money at that instead.
....A friend recently bought an Evo X SST on 14,000 miles for £22k. I've driven it and it's a superb car but only when you drive it very hard. Even then it badly needs a louder exhaust and lowering. When just cruising you've got time to take in the interior - It's comfortable but terribly ordinary and feels like a very average family saloon car.
It'll cost you serious money to mod it into something really tasty imo.
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The 2.0T FSI when tuned right is an absolute animal..
Tuning an EVO is no easier (apart from fueling) there are just more parts readily available and its more developed as a tuned engine making it appear that way..
To get either engine to 500hp would be very similar in costs
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Given your experiences and coming out the other end with some decent cars, would it not be more prudent to leave it for a year and see how this latest TSB turns out?
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Am thinking exactly the same thing.
but not an evo
What have you got in mind? I have a few candidates, e92 m3, evo x, tt-rs. Or option 2 being keep the cupra as it is, and get another car like evo 8 and strip it and tune that, or a vauxhall vx220 or lotus exige. But will see once im 21.
so perhaps its time for me to think about stop throwing good money after bad and just get a evo x and throw money at that instead.
....A friend recently bought an Evo X SST on 14,000 miles for £22k. I've driven it and it's a superb car but only when you drive it very hard. Even then it badly needs a louder exhaust and lowering. When just cruising you've got time to take in the interior - It's comfortable but terribly ordinary and feels like a very average family saloon car.
It'll cost you serious money to mod it into something really tasty imo.
Well the cupra only gets driven one way, I have no real need for a car. Also all the critiscism of the evo can be laid on the cupra also.
Both need lot of money to mod into something tasty.
The 2.0T FSI when tuned right is an absolute animal..
Tuning an EVO is no easier (apart from fueling) there are just more parts readily available and its more developed as a tuned engine making it appear that way..
To get either engine to 500hp would be very similar in costs
Thing is though the evo has a better chassis and drivetrain. Im a VAG boy down to my socks, but they are just too tempermental.
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Thing is though the evo has a better chassis and drivetrain. Im a VAG boy down to my socks, but they are just too tempermental.
Cant say I have ever had issues.. But guess I may have just been lucky..
I would argue the chassis side.. The Supercopa Cup cars are proof that when fitted with proper dampers its an absolute peach and for the drivetrain the Evo's blow transfer cases like there going out of fashion once there running decent power
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Thing is though the evo has a better chassis and drivetrain. Im a VAG boy down to my socks, but they are just too tempermental.
I cant comment on the Cupra but the Mk 5's have been pretty much bullet proof so far. Most of the ED 30 boys are adding at least 100 BHP and the only problems have been the DV valve and the odd clutch. :happy2:
5 grands worth of upgrades, gets you a very capable well sorted motor. :happy2:
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My mate had the evo x 300. I drove it a while back power was ok but the handling was sublime. interior was p!ss poor though.
faster car or not id still have mine everytime. believe it or not he has sice traded in his evo for a facelift focus ST had it remapped and rates it as a better car(not faster) just a better car.
I couldnt o to a non vag car now, everytime i get in another manufacturer all i can see id the interiors are not as nice and feel cheaper.
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jase, just keeep it, once we sort out this issue and do a few more things you will be back in love with the cupra again trust me..
i have my days when i think, fuk it this car is sh1t but then other days it puts a smile on my face.
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Thing is though the evo has a better chassis and drivetrain. Im a VAG boy down to my socks, but they are just too tempermental.
Cant say I have ever had issues.. But guess I may have just been lucky..
I would argue the chassis side.. The Supercopa Cup cars are proof that when fitted with proper dampers its an absolute peach and for the drivetrain the Evo's blow transfer cases like there going out of fashion once there running decent power
Well my gripes with the 2.0TFSI is the fuel pump issues, cam follower issues, pcv issues, valve spring issues, coil pack issues and im gonna have to trade it in for something 4wd eventually anyway as I have ambitions of having a car around 500hp. The cupra was always meant to have been a stop gap car till I could afford to insure a evo or similiar, and once im 21 I can pretty much insure anything.
jase, just keeep it, once we sort out this issue and do a few more things you will be back in love with the cupra again trust me..
i have my days when i think, fuk it this car is sh1t but then other days it puts a smile on my face.
That is true, just two days ago or so I was having some fun tearing up the blacktop and I said out loud "I love this car" lol. The flat spot and intermittent limp mode stuff though depresses me. Its on my mind 24/7. I think about it when I go to sleep at night, when I wake up, when Im at work. Surely its not healthy :signLOL:
Reckon mick would be able to get new valves on our motors? Might be hard if the car doesnt have the flat spot without the map.
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Pov, you are a panzy! Try driving an Italian turbo charged car for any length of time. That is when you have issues. At least VAG's will have TSB's to tell you what the issue is. Cuprak1 will testify to that.
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Pov, you are a panzy! Try driving an Italian turbo charged car for any length of time. That is when you have issues. At least VAG's will have TSB's to tell you what the issue is. Cuprak1 will testify to that.
Yeah but I know better than to have a Fix it again tony in the first place :signLOL:
Plus with the stuff I get up to the last thing I need is a unexpected limp mode period :rolleye:
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i need to get my stage 2+ sorted and see if the flat spot is still there
come end of nov if ur car makes it to seat hopefully we will have a solution man
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Revo....I dont think you guys are being fully transparent with us on some things :rolleye:
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Evo will edge things especially in the wet however in the dry a well set up MK5 or Cupra will be hard to beat.
To get a proper Evo you need to find an MR version but you will still need upgrading certain areas for track which will cost a fair whack.
With an Evo they just gulp fuel all of the time whereas at least the VAG stuff can give 30mpg+....all down to big fuelling and 4wd on the Evo.
Problem on the VAG wise is out of the box they are pretty competant on road and track but to make outstanding is bi investment
I've never notice any flat spots with the APR set up although it's not as punchy as my previous APR stage 3.
To make my current set up stand out will be a diff, big brakes, poly bushing , FMIC and some new Inters.....all major expense.
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i have my days when i think, fuk it this car is sh1t but then other days it puts a smile on my face.
dont know what your talking about tbh as my car always gives me a smile on my face :happy2:
and poverty, insurance does you a big favour only once you hit 25, then you could probaly get an ed 30 :drinking:
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what map is that. had exactly the same when i had my bluefin stage 2+ installed. I had two of said flat spots, 4.5k and aobout 5.2-5.5k.
this new map has solved that no more flat spots :happy2:
revo :happy2:
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i have my days when i think, fuk it this car is sh1t but then other days it puts a smile on my face.
dont know what your talking about tbh as my car always gives me a smile on my face :happy2:
and poverty, insurance does you a big favour only once you hit 25, then you could probaly get an ed 30 :drinking:
must be a seat thing lol
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Evo will edge things especially in the wet however in the dry a well set up MK5 or Cupra will be hard to beat.
To get a proper Evo you need to find an MR version but you will still need upgrading certain areas for track which will cost a fair whack.
With an Evo they just gulp fuel all of the time whereas at least the VAG stuff can give 30mpg+....all down to big fuelling and 4wd on the Evo.
Problem on the VAG wise is out of the box they are pretty competant on road and track but to make outstanding is bi investment
I've never notice any flat spots with the APR set up although it's not as punchy as my previous APR stage 3.
To make my current set up stand out will be a diff, big brakes, poly bushing , FMIC and some new Inters.....all major expense.
Still not sure what Im gonna do. First priority is to get the little niggles on the cupra sorted and go from there.
i have my days when i think, fuk it this car is sh1t but then other days it puts a smile on my face.
dont know what your talking about tbh as my car always gives me a smile on my face :happy2:
and poverty, insurance does you a big favour only once you hit 25, then you could probaly get an ed 30 :drinking:
Am I missing a SEAT vs VW joke here? :chicken:
Done some quotes on the cupra for once im 21 and the premium will half from what Im paying now, and that was just looking on confused.com, never mind the specialists.
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i have my days when i think, fuk it this car is sh1t but then other days it puts a smile on my face.
dont know what your talking about tbh as my car always gives me a smile on my face :happy2:
and poverty, insurance does you a big favour only once you hit 25, then you could probaly get an ed 30 :drinking:
Not a bad shout on the insurance i tried to get insured on a FQ340 when i was 21 and they all might aswell as put the phone down you might save a couple of hundered i paid £1200 all mods declared and just had my renewal at £920 at 22.
And i dont have any flatspot :happy2:
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im gonna have to trade it in for something 4wd eventually anyway as I have ambitions of having a car around 500hp.
S3 :grin:
You'd have to spend a fair wack to get it up to 500 bhp though.
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I had the K04 rebuild, got APR software for it, had flatspot from 5200 to 6000rpm, the ocational limpmode caused by overboost. After APR made an update on the software in October, no more problems :happy2:
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so was there any revo code updates or code made spcifically for 08 cars + ? maybe i have an old code version loaded on ?
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as i said in the beginning of this thread when on bluefin I had a flat spot at about the same spot. but when i changed maps it disappeared.
looking at the before(bluefin) after (Shark performance) air mass readings you can see the big drop in the graph @ about 5200rpm, but not in the second one. Maybe do some logs on yours and see if it does the same
-Air Mass readings before
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fsimonskerton%2Fcar_pics%2Fam_before.jpg&hash=35d4f575dd3a0ee106e8fb77c360d82f2c863a04)
Air mass readings after
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fsimonskerton%2Fcar_pics%2Fam_after.jpg&hash=104fc79ac9a93fb3f697c6f958cdcc9287418335)
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im gonna have to trade it in for something 4wd eventually anyway as I have ambitions of having a car around 500hp.
S3 :grin:
You'd have to spend a fair wack to get it up to 500 bhp though.
If only I could put the k1 shell on a S3 :love:
Comeon revo, share with us what you guys have worked out so far.
They know more about these issues than they are letting on. :fighting:
Do people know the reason why Revo asked ITG to develop their intake in the first place?
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as i said n the scn forum,
I vaguely remember him mentioning to me they were asked to develop it due to some sort of issue. they needed an intake that could consistantly provide enough air.
iirc it was something that occured over the pond. might be unrelated!!
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as i said n the scn forum,
I vaguely remember him mentioning to me they were asked to develop it due to some sort of issue. they needed an intake that could consistantly provide enough air.
iirc it was something that occured over the pond. might be unrelated!!
The difference between us brits and the yanks is that they whinge more loudly on the car forums. Any issues that they will be having in the states should be here in the UK also.
Gonna be getting my valves checked soon enough.
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so was there any revo code updates or code made spcifically for 08 cars + ? maybe i have an old code version loaded on ?
Only stage 1.
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Comeon revo, share with us what you guys have worked out so far.
They know more about these issues than they are letting on. :fighting:
Do people know the reason why Revo asked ITG to develop their intake in the first place?
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We didn't ask ITG to develop any intake kit, ITG approached us when they were working on their 1.8T LCR intake kits asking if we were willing to offer advice and help them out as we know the cars/tuning. From their we continued to help with their TFSI development.
There is a valve spring issue on some of the the 08 onwards TFSI's as per the VAG TSBs, this can cause a 6000rpm + misfire. With an uprated exhaust the problem is less likely to occur. As such we have revised stage1 software available for these cars if required.
Can't get our cars to do this 5200rpm flat spot though.
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Kev perhaps myself and pov could come up to your offices and possibly have the cars logged and looked at ?
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Hi Kev,
Do you have a copy or a link to the TSB anywhere?
Thanks
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Mine is fine, been running stage 2+ software for a while now even when I was using the standard air box with stage 2+ I didn’t experience any flat spots. :happy2:
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Mine is fine, been running stage 2+ software for a while now even when I was using the standard air box with stage 2+ I didn’t experience any flat spots. :happy2:
Never an issue with mine either..
I think people need to understand that the maps are the same no matter what car there on.. So if there is an issue on one car and not another then its not the software is it?!
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Mine is fine, been running stage 2+ software for a while now even when I was using the standard air box with stage 2+ I didn’t experience any flat spots. :happy2:
Never an issue with mine either..
I think people need to understand that the maps are the same no matter what car there on.. So if there is an issue on one car and not another then its not the software is it?!
But when there are multiple cars running from 2007 to 2009 models all with the same issue.....???
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We didn't ask ITG to develop any intake kit, ITG approached us when they were working on their 1.8T LCR intake kits asking if we were willing to offer advice and help them out as we know the cars/tuning. From their we continued to help with their TFSI development.
There is a valve spring issue on some of the the 08 onwards TFSI's as per the VAG TSBs, this can cause a 6000rpm + misfire. With an uprated exhaust the problem is less likely to occur. As such we have revised stage1 software available for these cars if required.
Can't get our cars to do this 5200rpm flat spot though.
But there are 2007 models with this flat spot also, and mines a 2009, but not sure when that TSB came out?
Also some people are saying there is an issue you guys are trying to map out? Any truth in this or has someone just misunderstood something wrongly some point along the way?
Will get my valves checked, and hopefully you guys are right, as I love what your software has done to my car, and I couldnt own this car without the software, but the flat spot does sorta ruin things when having fun.
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But when there are multiple cars running from 2007 to 2009 models all with the same issue.....???
errr so how many cars do u know exactly have this exact issue like urs?
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But when there are multiple cars running from 2007 to 2009 models all with the same issue.....???
errr so how many cars do u know exactly have this exact issue like urs?
roughly 7 from the forums, so there are bound to be more out there.
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[/quote]
Also some people are saying there is an issue you guys are trying to map out? Any truth in this or has someone just misunderstood something wrongly some point along the way?[/quote]
Some people are obviously mistaken, we aren't doing anything with Stage2+ software as we haven't experienced any software related problems. If it was in the software then every single car running it would have the problem!
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Some people are obviously mistaken, we aren't doing anything with Stage2+ software as we haven't experienced any software related problems. If it was in the software then every single car running it would have the problem!
Dont want to cause sh1t but thats not entirely true... There are many types of tfsi engine as you are aware, some seem to be affected and its only the hardcore "tuners" who can feel this blip who are owning up to it and the others simply are not bothered or dont notice it...
Myself and pov are NOT saying this is a Revo fault or problem, it may just be an issue with our cars since the cars are running more power.
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I would think that some subtle problems may be car related, but is showing up when the same map is being used. Like you say about the valve springs being different on MY08 cars, this may only show up after the power has been hiked X percent.
I would say that some other basic checks and maintenance needs to be done before map is investigated, however I suspect cuprak1 being the person he is, has already scoured the net for information and done the checks, which is why he has arrived at checking what the map is doing and asking the questions.
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I would think that some subtle problems may be car related, but is showing up when the same map is being used. Like you say about the valve springs being different on MY08 cars, this may only show up after the power has been hiked X percent.
I would say that some other basic checks and maintenance needs to be done before map is investigated, however I suspect cuprak1 being the person he is, has already scoured the net for information and done the checks, which is why he has arrived at checking what the map is doing and asking the questions.
exactly... and again not blaming the mapping or software but it seems to only occur with people using revo code.. BUT that could be because other tuners don't touch some tables which revo do
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It is odd, maybe revo is being flagged up more often do to its popularity? And like cuprak1 has said, it only seems to be the individuals who take their tuning more seriously who appear to be having the issues?
Revo say its the valve springs, are all cars after 08 fitted with these inferior valve springs or is it just a certain batch?
The car will be having rigourus testing in january. Valve springs will be checked, and the overall engine components will be checked. If then there is still no cure the car will be dumped at either JKM or APS.
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-Air Mass readings bluefin stage 2+
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fsimonskerton%2Fcar_pics%2Fam_before.jpg&hash=35d4f575dd3a0ee106e8fb77c360d82f2c863a04)
Air mass readings Shark performance stage 3
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fsimonskerton%2Fcar_pics%2Fam_after.jpg&hash=104fc79ac9a93fb3f697c6f958cdcc9287418335)
have any of you done logs. I had this hesitation issue with bluefin. from the logs above you can see the drop in the bluefin graph on the air mass. it disapeared with the new remap. and occured at about 5200-5400rpm as well.
coincidence maybe or related. If it is related then it could very well be down to mapping. or it could be to do with bluefin just being pants
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Any explanation why it should dropped? Must be a reason why the car threw a wobbly?
Keep meaning to do some logs, but things keep coming up.
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Any explanation why it should dropped? Must be a reason why the car threw a wobbly?
Keep meaning to do some logs, but things keep coming up.
nope. what i do know is that it did it @ bluefin stage 2 but much much worse, not as bad @ bluefin stage 2+ and now not at all. or if it does i havent noticed it.
im interested to see if your logs would be similar? with a drop in air mass temporarily
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cant be bothered reading the whole thred but mine does this exact same thing, at about 5k, then back to full boost, it drops to abot 10 psi on my gauge. :smiley:
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cant be bothered reading the whole thred but mine does this exact same thing, at about 5k, then back to full boost, it drops to abot 10 psi on my gauge. :smiley:
I take it you all have uprated high pressure fuel pumps? This is right in the range where the standard pump is working hardest, and the feeling you have, especially if the car is pulling boost out would be fuel cut..
Again, its pretty obvious this has nothing to do with the map, otherwise ALL of the cars with that same map would have the problem..
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i dont have the pump yet. too much money.
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^^^ Plus it probably worth mentioning you don't have Revo software either joe :smiley:
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cant be bothered reading the whole thred but mine does this exact same thing, at about 5k, then back to full boost, it drops to abot 10 psi on my gauge. :smiley:
I take it you all have uprated high pressure fuel pumps? This is right in the range where the standard pump is working hardest, and the feeling you have, especially if the car is pulling boost out would be fuel cut..
Again, its pretty obvious this has nothing to do with the map, otherwise ALL of the cars with that same map would have the problem..
could the guys with revo select switches turn the fuelling downto counter that and see if it is still there. thats hould help show wheter that is the cause
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^^^ I don't think it works like that, I think they would need to reduce the boost to help with this :smiley:
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^^^ I don't think it works like that, I think they would need to reduce the boost to help with this :smiley:
basicaly meant lower the over all settings a little, instaed of having it set to really aggressive.
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i dont have the pump yet. too much money.
I would say thats your problem.. My K03 GTI had the same, fitted a pump and it was all good..
You can get Autotech revision 2 pumps for £300 now.. I have ran that pump in my ED30 and S3 with zero problems, cam follower comes out looking mint :smiley:
could the guys with revo select switches turn the fuelling downto counter that and see if it is still there. thats hould help show wheter that is the cause
Lowering the number on the fuel trim richens up the mix, raising will lean it out, so if anything you would need to go up on the fuel number.. But either way, the way to do it would be lower the boost as Steve says..
I really wouldn't recommend doing that though as its clear the motor is already running out of fuel, hence the problem..
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cant be bothered reading the whole thred but mine does this exact same thing, at about 5k, then back to full boost, it drops to abot 10 psi on my gauge. :smiley:
I take it you all have uprated high pressure fuel pumps? This is right in the range where the standard pump is working hardest, and the feeling you have, especially if the car is pulling boost out would be fuel cut..
Again, its pretty obvious this has nothing to do with the map, otherwise ALL of the cars with that same map would have the problem..
could the guys with revo select switches turn the fuelling downto counter that and see if it is still there. thats hould help show wheter that is the cause
Im running rich as it is!
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@ jonny, how easily are they fitted though.
or can it be DIY?
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Im running rich as it is!
Running fuel 9? What's your AFR?
@ jonny, how easily are they fitted though.
or can it be DIY?
You can do it DIY easily yeah, if you would rather not then it's a 20 min job for someone that's competent
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cant be bothered reading the whole thred but mine does this exact same thing, at about 5k, then back to full boost, it drops to abot 10 psi on my gauge. :smiley:
I take it you all have uprated high pressure fuel pumps? This is right in the range where the standard pump is working hardest, and the feeling you have, especially if the car is pulling boost out would be fuel cut..
Again, its pretty obvious this has nothing to do with the map, otherwise ALL of the cars with that same map would have the problem..
could the guys with revo select switches turn the fuelling downto counter that and see if it is still there. thats hould help show wheter that is the cause
Im running rich as it is!
If you are running rich with F9 then perhaps you have some hardware protection mapping taking place because you are actually running too lean an AFR for your HW setup and the ECU is having to richen the AFR mixture up because your EGTs are getting too high.
In this case it would actually be beneficial to:
a) Lower your fuel setting (more fuel will mean a cooler burn). If you are doing this without a HPFP I would recommend lowering your boost as well to reduce the strain on the standard HPFP.
b) Increase timing a little if you can (also lowers EGTs)
I think the problems you are getting can most likely be put down to that you may be running settings which are too aggressive for the HW you have installed (no HPFP). I am at stage 1 and can see already that the HPFP is being pushed to its limits and that is without any other HW upgrades. As you are running a CAI and exhaust already; the demand on the HPFP with aggressive settings will simply be too much and result in fuel cuts and misfires. This is why I will be purchasing a HPFP after my CAI is intsalled.
I would really recommend that you invest in getting a VCDS cable as I am sure the problems you are having will become obvious to see.
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@ jonny, how easily are they fitted though.
or can it be DIY?
You can do it DIY easily yeah, if you would rather not then it's a 20 min job for someone that's competent
Jonny,
Do you know if it really necessary to go to TDC before doing a HPFP change or cam follower removal?
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cant be bothered reading the whole thred but mine does this exact same thing, at about 5k, then back to full boost, it drops to abot 10 psi on my gauge. :smiley:
I doubt that this is pump related as by that rpm the standard pump can easily sustain 130bar fuel rail pressure.
It may be wise to log the car though in case it's going into soft limp mode.
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Do you know if it really necessary to go to TDC before doing a HPFP change or cam follower removal?
This is what the Bentley manual stipulates but most folk don't bother and most don't seem to run into issues.
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Im running b9, timing 6 fuel 6.
If you follow my car from behind if I boot it, you can smell the petrol. My car has a few issues though which has nothing to do with the mods so obviously need to get them sorted, and once I have done that, I will go back to concentrating on this flat spot.
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Do you know if it really necessary to go to TDC before doing a HPFP change or cam follower removal?
I didn't bother last time nope..
If you follow my car from behind if I boot it, you can smell the petrol
:grin: Not being funny mate but if thats all your going off to state that your car is running rich then I think its about time you followed KRL's suggestion and go out and do some logs lol..
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have u tried runnning less aggresssive settings to see what happens? like B7 T6 F8 perhaps ??
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Do you know if it really necessary to go to TDC before doing a HPFP change or cam follower removal?
I didn't bother last time nope..
If you follow my car from behind if I boot it, you can smell the petrol
:grin: Not being funny mate but if thats all your going off to state that your car is running rich then I think its about time you followed KRL's suggestion and go out and do some logs lol..
Its that amongst other things. Plus we have other stage 2 plus cars to compare to, but mine has issues. Have got some data just need it all sent through.
have u tried runnning less aggresssive settings to see what happens? like B7 T6 F8 perhaps ??
Yeah have done, and the flat spot is less noticeable, but I put that down to the car not going through the revs as quickly making it less obvious
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Hello, revo
There are early 2007 cars that have this flat spot, so therefore it sort of rules out it being the valve springs. Any further comments on the issue?
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just to through caution to the wind here, i was told a fuel pump would cure this flat spot..
however, i have come across an audi s3 WITH a pump but the issue still no fixxy....
it seems to smooth out a bit but im sure it will still be noticable when driving..
see graph between 3.5k > 4k
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3467%2F3801275756_427834d687_b.jpg&hash=3387045006febf4f2c70cc03b58dce5ec760a6c7)
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I have a KO3 GTI that suffers from this since having a custom map put on at the weekend, going to change the DV to the revision D piston type as I'm still running the standard valve to see if this cures it
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I have a KO3 GTI that suffers from this since having a custom map put on at the weekend, going to change the DV to the revision D piston type as I'm still running the standard valve to see if this cures it
i have tried swapping DV didn't help :sad1:
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Guys,
I never realised this was on here. If you look on SCN, there are K03s cars that do it as well as K04 cars (also seen on this thread), and several dont have Revo Software.
Also, my car (early 07) does only has the flat spot intermittently, and funnily hasnt done it for a good month or two now. The S3 I know of (also early 07) has the flat spot permanently last I heard.
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Guys,
I never realised this was on here. If you look on SCN, there are K03s cars that do it as well as K04 cars (also seen on this thread), and several dont have Revo Software.
Also, my car (early 07) does only has the flat spot intermittently, and funnily hasnt done it for a good month or two now. The S3 I know of (also early 07) has the flat spot permanently last I heard.
My flat spot seems to have gone now too :stupid:
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i sometimes get it in cold weather!!!
but i agree it seems intermittent. had it before. went after the new remap, came back but has gone again. is it the car just being slow to adapt everynow and then to colder air maybe??although why is it always at the same RPM
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true its odd. Mine is back again.
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Mines doing this now! Since ive got stage 2 blufin new dv and twintake! Going to do some logs this week
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Mines doing this now! Since ive got stage 2 blufin new dv and twintake! Going to do some logs this week
what year is your car. Mine did it as soon as I fitted the ITG.
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mines 2007
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really blows the valve theory out of the window
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is there any updates on this ? as mine also does this around 5200 for a very short time, drops boost then picks back up about 5,500. mines a k03 running APS's map and turbo back milltek
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is there any updates on this ? as mine also does this around 5200 for a very short time, drops boost then picks back up about 5,500. mines a k03 running APS's map and turbo back milltek
still working on it, but if you are close to APS they could be the perfect guys to solve this issue.
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are there any dyno graphs that show this flat spot. is it just a momentary drop in power or severe. i think mine is just a misfire tbh.
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are there any dyno graphs that show this flat spot. is it just a momentary drop in power or severe. i think mine is just a misfire tbh.
Boost drops, and the picks back up again after a while.
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have you seen this on a dyno lot though or in logs or is it just an experienced thing.
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have you seen this on a dyno lot though or in logs or is it just an experienced thing.
logs, on a different car.
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could yuo PM or post them up fr us to have a peruse over please.
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will have to try and get hold of them. Will post up some more info about it tomorrow night.
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will have to try and get hold of them. Will post up some more info about it tomorrow night.
cheers boss
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is there any updates on this ? as mine also does this around 5200 for a very short time, drops boost then picks back up about 5,500. mines a k03 running APS's map and turbo back milltek
still working on it, but if you are close to APS they could be the perfect guys to solve this issue.
i have phoned them up on monday and there looking into it. they think that it could be a problem with my sports cat but are getting back to me! ill give them a ring today and see if they have any updates.
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I had this problem
Stage2+ Revo. K03s Skoda Octavia vRS MY2007
Following Mods:
Autotech Fuel Pump
Full Miltek TBE
Neuspeed Turbo Outlet
S3 Intercooler
Relocated DV (including new revision D DV with no Rubber Diaphragm)
REVO Stage2+ Code
BSH Stage 2 Catch Can
I was having this problem and that was after a Major service in which the Spark Plugs were replaced (NGK Iridium). The Cam Follower was changed about 1k miles ago.
I recently replace the MAF & MAP and the car was taken on a Spirited Drive the car seems to pull a bit harder and it has gone away for now but i think it is to do with the ECU adapting to driving style as my Fiancee only drives 3 miles to and from work each day i only get the car if im lucky once a month :sad1:
Please don't ever blame your REVO map it couldn't possibly be that map no sireee there will never ever be anything wrong with the map :wink: :P :signLOL:
Carl
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:grin:
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i had it when i first had the stage 1 map loaded. it was removed and put back on. but since the downpipe has been fitted and the updated map has been put on its come back again. Ed seems to think its a problem with my sports cat so is waiting to here back from milltek about a replacement. and will take it from there.
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i had it when i first had the stage 1 map loaded. it was removed and put back on. but since the downpipe has been fitted and the updated map has been put on its come back again. Ed seems to think its a problem with my sports cat so is waiting to here back from milltek about a replacement. and will take it from there.
You should send Ed the link to this thread. AMD thought similar when I told them to look at mine, but a new Blueflame DP later and it made no difference.
Still need to see if I can get those logs.
BTW if you lower the settings, the flat spot will disappear.
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Did Jonnyc has a hesitation fault, and found out it was the wrong coil packs fitted??? ie those meant for a 20FSI engine!
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Did Jonnyc has a hesitation fault, and found out it was the wrong coil packs fitted??? ie those meant for a 20FSI engine!
I did, but it was top end and to do with increased cylinder pressures from running 22psi boost over 7500rpm..
Yes the coil packs were wrong but thats not the same problem that some of you guys are experiencing..
BTW if you lower the settings, the flat spot will disappear.
When you say this, have you logged before and after, to see what the car is doing around this area in the rev range?
Also, does the problem arise more with increased boost or timing?
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Did Jonnyc has a hesitation fault, and found out it was the wrong coil packs fitted??? ie those meant for a 20FSI engine!
I did, but it was top end and to do with increased cylinder pressures from running 22psi boost over 7500rpm..
Yes the coil packs were wrong but thats not the same problem that some of you guys are experiencing..
BTW if you lower the settings, the flat spot will disappear.
When you say this, have you logged before and after, to see what the car is doing around this area in the rev range?
Also, does the problem arise more with increased boost or timing?
aps made some adjustments to mine at the weekend, which i thought had cleared it but the problem has moved from 5200 in 4th to 5500 in 4th and now will only drop 2-3 psi for a split second and then picks back up fine. so it is much better but is still there. which is why he thinks the cat could be at fault.
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this has issue has plagued me for a fair few months now and have tried all sorts to fix it:
maf, sparks, coils, new intake (itg), replaced oem 'd' dv with forge dv, and also replaced my miltek downpipe when that blew a hole in the flexi flange
problems still remained - mainly in 4th and 5th gears and c5krpm, boost gauge suddenly drops from c20psi to 5-10psi for a second and then back to full boost
only solution i have found is too turn down the settings - i used to be b8t6f6 and am now b8t5f7
with the new settings the car does not stutter,
interestingly i noticed if I turned the timing up to 7 then the issue got worse and the stutter happended twice in the rev range
i am a vagcom beginner but this is a log i did at t7, can anyone advise what else i should be looking for
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fu347%2Fjnewby99%2FED30LOGS.jpg&hash=20ee77341c11e882aff3f602fd04ed316d4ada7b)
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You can log the cylinders individually to check for misfires and timing correction.
I think its Block 15 off the top of my head.
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read this from mike @ forge regarding their new actuator:
could this be what we are experiencing? are oem actuator spring is failing over time and causing the issues...
"Actuators are not offered to address shortcomings with software.
They are made to address shortcomings with the OEM actuator that software does not compensate for.
Similarly to how a weak blow-off valve can leak on the pressure side of a turbocharged application, a weak wastegate can leak on the exhaust side.
The stock actuator has a soft spring in it (~ 4PSI) that doesn't effectively keep all of the exhaust gas spooling the turbo in the most efficient manner all the time. Too much exhaust gas pressure can force it open effectively causing an exhaust gas leak that limits spool and boost potential. If you figure that you are pumping 15-20 PSI into the intake side of the motor, you will have an equivalent amount of exhaust gas pressure coming out of the motor on the exhaust side.
This is a phenomenon that a lot of people experience without even realizing it. Under a high load condition, such as a wide open throttle pull in 4th, 5th, or 6th gear, boost will quickly climb to a peak value and immediately fall off and fluctuate wildly up and down and which point you will hear a fluttering effect from the engine as the ECU tries to keep actual boost in line with requested. This is far more prone to occur on a smaller turbo at higher boost levels (more air flowing through a smaller space) than a larger turbo at lower boost levels.
No amount of tuning or additional N75 duty cycle will prevent the wastehate from being blow open prematurely by exhaust gas. N75 duty cycle doesn't apply vacuum to the actuator to keep it closed. It only delays the time that pressure signal is held back until it is sent to open the actuator.
The only way to prevent this occurrence is to increase the spring tension of the actuator. Adjusting the stock unit will have a similar effect but to a lesser degree because your working with an altogether lower spring tension, and adjusting it will only limit its travel and flow potential. A replacement unit with a stiffer spring will help to spool the turbo in the most efficient manner possible by keeping all of the exhaust gas flowing over the impeller wheel."
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Interesting, but I would only believe anything a manufacturer claims when someone who bought it gave an unbiased opinion.
For what its worth, mine does it with the boost all the way down, and with the cat removed. I still have the damned "jingling" noise on spool point and upward - 15000 miles its been there now on and off, although its more on now than off, and its louder than ever. I have not really seen any thing "definite" posted that this could be as yet, and I know mine is not alone.
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Interesting, but I would only believe anything a manufacturer claims when someone who bought it gave an unbiased opinion.
For what its worth, mine does it with the boost all the way down, and with the cat removed. I still have the damned "jingling" noise on spool point and upward - 15000 miles its been there now on and off, although its more on now than off, and its louder than ever. I have not really seen any thing "definite" posted that this could be as yet, and I know mine is not alone.
its an uprated stronger actuator than the oem one, just makes sense replacing it with the forge when you are running high levels of boost and for £120 its worth a punt.
interesting to hear you get the jingling sound on spool up, I get it too but only when the car is cold once warmed up it goes away
is it the same for you or constant?
im on the look out for a new K04 - missed one on ebay yesterday went for £250 :sad1:
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its an uprated stronger actuator than the oem one, just makes sense replacing it with the forge when you are running high levels of boost and for £120 its worth a punt.
interesting to hear you get the jingling sound on spool up, I get it too but only when the car is cold once warmed up it goes away
is it the same for you or constant?
im on the look out for a new K04 - missed one on ebay yesterday went for £250 :sad1:
I would consider it if someone else had the same issue, and this part "fixed" it.
My car does it when cold or hot, and its intermittent.
Out of interest, why do you need another turbo? I have a spare, but its only there incase my one goes bang.
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read this from mike @ forge regarding their new actuator:
could this be what we are experiencing? are oem actuator spring is failing over time and causing the issues...
"Actuators are not offered to address shortcomings with software.
They are made to address shortcomings with the OEM actuator that software does not compensate for.
Similarly to how a weak blow-off valve can leak on the pressure side of a turbocharged application, a weak wastegate can leak on the exhaust side.
The stock actuator has a soft spring in it (~ 4PSI) that doesn't effectively keep all of the exhaust gas spooling the turbo in the most efficient manner all the time. Too much exhaust gas pressure can force it open effectively causing an exhaust gas leak that limits spool and boost potential. If you figure that you are pumping 15-20 PSI into the intake side of the motor, you will have an equivalent amount of exhaust gas pressure coming out of the motor on the exhaust side.
This is a phenomenon that a lot of people experience without even realizing it. Under a high load condition, such as a wide open throttle pull in 4th, 5th, or 6th gear, boost will quickly climb to a peak value and immediately fall off and fluctuate wildly up and down and which point you will hear a fluttering effect from the engine as the ECU tries to keep actual boost in line with requested. This is far more prone to occur on a smaller turbo at higher boost levels (more air flowing through a smaller space) than a larger turbo at lower boost levels.
No amount of tuning or additional N75 duty cycle will prevent the wastehate from being blow open prematurely by exhaust gas. N75 duty cycle doesn't apply vacuum to the actuator to keep it closed. It only delays the time that pressure signal is held back until it is sent to open the actuator.
The only way to prevent this occurrence is to increase the spring tension of the actuator. Adjusting the stock unit will have a similar effect but to a lesser degree because your working with an altogether lower spring tension, and adjusting it will only limit its travel and flow potential. A replacement unit with a stiffer spring will help to spool the turbo in the most efficient manner possible by keeping all of the exhaust gas flowing over the impeller wheel."
where did you copy and paste this from?
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it says mike @ forge at the top of that quote!!
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Was reading about the k04 actuator over on golfmkv.com and with the logs I posted earlier which shows my boost reaching a peak and then fluctuates up and down - keiths comments I highlighted may offer an explanation
my actuator arrived today sexy bit of kit just need to get time off work and get down to jkm to fit it
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have yuoou bought the same as what hudy has bought' forge actuator' do you have links etc, had a look on forges website but couldnt find it.
also how mucg wil jkm charge to fit it.
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iirc the install takes about 3 hours... :scared:
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mint lol. so do we know if the map needs to be adjusted to make the most of it. ie for the non revo guys can it be used as a bolt on mod so with no tweakage
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There we go then not cheap will cost more than the actuator...
On my phone so can't post link just go on forge website and look through the actuator section I think it's on the 4th page
120 delivered using the seat cupra discount :wink:
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it says mike @ forge at the top of that quote!!
yeah I mean like what forum/thread/website?
I find the comments about the "software" odd tbh. Why should it be relevant unless a company who deals with software has asked forge to make this unit?
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this has issue has plagued me for a fair few months now and have tried all sorts to fix it:
maf, sparks, coils, new intake (itg), replaced oem 'd' dv with forge dv, and also replaced my miltek downpipe when that blew a hole in the flexi flange
problems still remained - mainly in 4th and 5th gears and c5krpm, boost gauge suddenly drops from c20psi to 5-10psi for a second and then back to full boost
only solution i have found is too turn down the settings - i used to be b8t6f6 and am now b8t5f7
with the new settings the car does not stutter,
interestingly i noticed if I turned the timing up to 7 then the issue got worse and the stutter happended twice in the rev range
i am a vagcom beginner but this is a log i did at t7, can anyone advise what else i should be looking for
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fu347%2Fjnewby99%2FED30LOGS.jpg&hash=20ee77341c11e882aff3f602fd04ed316d4ada7b)
Hi James,
Your boost log looks odd to me because your specified boost is pulling back at 3880 RPM. Also it does not look like your turbo is spooling properly. This is a boost log from my car at stage 1. Notice how spec'd boost remains fairly consistent and does not drop off. Also the you can clearly see the turbo spooling at 2800RPM:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu264%2Flivall%2Frevo_stage_1_boost_timing_6_5_9.jpg%3Ft%3D1265376947&hash=ae1cc760b7555b9d061bafa50dec7cd46b20a859)
Which gear did you do your logs in and were you WOT for the entire pull? It would be interesting to see what your N75 duty cycle is like and your fuel rail pressure.
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That run was done in 4th with revo settings b8t7f6 and at wot - the graph is showing the issues I experience when running to high a timing setting.
I am now running t5 and the boost holds at 21psi upto c6500 rpm, my windows laptop is currently broken so can't get any new logs up at the mo, but went for a spin last night and did a run all the way through 4th and 5th gears watching my boost gauge and it held without any sudden drops
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Did you check what your timing pull and timing advance were like with T7? Maybe the ECU was pulling back which caused the strange boost log.
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James, take a look at this. http://www.revotechnik.com/products/pdf/SPS3_advancedUserGuide060406.pdf
Pages 8 and 11 specifically apply to you. T7 seems high unless you are running spooky high octane fuel.
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i have been using the revo guide and playing with the settings.
i was getting the hesitation with T6 too, its only when I reduced the settings to T5 that the hesitation stopped and it would pull all the way to red line.
i am pleased with how its running now on B8T5F7
interesting topic here:
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=252182
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i have been using the revo guide and playing with the settings.
i was getting the hesitation with T6 too, its only when I reduced the settings to T5 that the hesitation stopped and it would pull all the way to red line.
i am pleased with how its running now on B8T5F7
interesting topic here:
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=252182
Have you guys tried leaning out the fuel to lower the request on the in-tank pump?
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Is this a feeling that when the rev counter goes over 5k it feels like the turbo is running out of steam and then as you approached close to 6k it power comes on full again? I have studied my vRS with a KO4 fitted and i have noticed that it does this ever so slightly in 4th gear only going up an incline, not enough to bother me to be honest. It's obvious the ECU is seeing something it doesn't like and pulling back, maybe a sensor seeing high temps?
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Is this a feeling that when the rev counter goes over 5k it feels like the turbo is running out of steam and then as you approached close to 6k it power comes on full again? I have studied my vRS with a KO4 fitted and i have noticed that it does this ever so slightly in 4th gear only going up an incline, not enough to bother me to be honest. It's obvious the ECU is seeing something it doesn't like and pulling back, maybe a sensor seeing high temps?
Its not the ecu pulling back imo, mine does it now even stock. It will only do it in 4th gear whilst coming from WOT at 3rd. Low revs in 4ths and then going WOT will allow it to pull without hesitation, but then the hesitation will return in 5th if you carry on the WOT.
Trouble in getting it sorted is that to experience the flat spot in 4th you will be doing between 75-80mph.
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Mine does it in every gear. Does not matter what boost, fuel and timing is set to. By the way, what does WOT mean.
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WOT=wide open throttle
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Hi guys quick question about this. when my car was in for its service it showed a cat efficiency fault. does anyone else car show this? as this is why Aps beleive it to be the cat on mine. milltek are currently making me a new downpipe so i will know in a few weeks if this was the problem or not.
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Just spoke to someone who reckons this could be the fuel truss sensor in the inlet manifold.
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Just spoke to someone who reckons this could be the fuel truss sensor in the inlet manifold.
do you mean thrust sensor as in MAP sensor. also what makes them think this?? :happy2:
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Just spoke to someone who reckons this could be the fuel truss sensor in the inlet manifold.
do you mean thrust sensor as in MAP sensor. also what makes them think this?? :happy2:
Could be wrong Simon, but isn't the map sensor the one on the intercooler hose before the throttle body? I thought the one on the manifold was a air temp sensor...
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tbh imnot sure micky
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i have been using the revo guide and playing with the settings.
i was getting the hesitation with T6 too, its only when I reduced the settings to T5 that the hesitation stopped and it would pull all the way to red line.
i am pleased with how its running now on B8T5F7
interesting topic here:
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=252182
Reduced my settings too and the flat spot disappear, and pretty happy with the performance also.
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Hi guys quick question about this. when my car was in for its service it showed a cat efficiency fault. does anyone else car show this? as this is why Aps beleive it to be the cat on mine. milltek are currently making me a new downpipe so i will know in a few weeks if this was the problem or not.
any updates on the outcome of this?
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Hi guys quick question about this. when my car was in for its service it showed a cat efficiency fault. does anyone else car show this? as this is why Aps beleive it to be the cat on mine. milltek are currently making me a new downpipe so i will know in a few weeks if this was the problem or not.
any updates on the outcome of this?
yes the car was at aps on friday again and the same fault code came up. they did an emmisions test and they were through the roof. so its 100% a problem with the cat. which he said would explain the flat spot at that time. its going in on saturday for a new downpipe and cat. so i will report back saturday afternoon if the problem has been sorted.
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is the problem with the cat or the probe that checks its efficiency???
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is the problem with the cat or the probe that checks its efficiency???
a problem with the cat mate. everything thing else on the car is tip top :)
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Mine does it with no cat and stage 2+ code. It aint the cat or the sensors on mine at least.
New date for my cars modifications and inlet manifold mod is April 1st.
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Mine does it with no cat and stage 2+ code. It aint the cat or the sensors on mine at least.
New date for my cars modifications and inlet manifold mod is April 1st.
Hope you make some progress on the flat spot. Was hoping to have figured it out now myself but as you know ive been kept busy with other stuff. Things should be back to normal by next weekend im hoping.
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Could this be related to the same problems we are having. Taken from a member from SCN.
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2849850&posted=1#post2849850
Guys I have superchips stage 3 on the car at the minute and the mods I have are,
ITG cai
Milltek full turbo back
Forge valve
Forge twin intercooler
Autotek pump internals,
I was on a rolling road on sat and the car only put out 308bhp, however the guy said they had another car on a while back and on both times there was a 30 bhp difference, which was fair enough, I was only going to get logs done anyway and was gona get it roaded at a later date somewhere else,
Bear with me,
I emailed the logs back to superchips as I had spoken to them about turning the power up a bit however they said this,
I've had a look at the logs and they look OK. You're running a little too much over boost low down so I'd like to reduce that but other than that good boost everywhere else. Looking at the air flow you are running 245g/s that indicates that you have 320-330bhp which is what I would expect. We cannot gain any more than this as you are already running too much boost for the fuel system to cope with - the car is trying to get over 9ms worth of injection duration at 5,000rpm which it cannot so any more and the fuel pressure will drop. Looking at the fuelling logs it appears the rail isn't reaching 129bar which it should be doing which may be why the injection duration is so high.
Ok so,
So what I gather out of this is that the injectors cant give me anymore, im just wondering why this would be the case when other software is running more power than this?, Have you guys checked this on vagcom?
He said also that he wouldnt have been surprised if the car did have fuel cut in the top gears with that boost and you wouldnt notice it in the lower gears you would be changing gears so quickly?,
I thought that when I got the internals I would be ok for more power?,
I have heard some of you guys talk about a slight loss of power up the rev range, could this be what is causing your slight loss of power?, injectors?,
How much can our injectors take, I cant help but think I could be getting more power out of this car?,
I have the logs on excel if anyone wants to look at them I can email them to you?
Any thoughts views welcome?,
Aaron
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Interesting post poverty, expecially part where they are citing the a MAF of 245g/s equates to 320-330 bhp. 245g/s is more like 302 bhp. Also interesting comments about the fuel rail pressure. I know that both Hurdy and I have no problems meeting the 130 bar, with us both often sustaining 130+ bar without issue.
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Do either of you suffer the flat spot? What pumps are you and hurdy running?
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Interesting post poverty, expecially part where they are citing the a MAF of 245g/s equates to 320-330 bhp. 245g/s is more like 302 bhp. Also interesting comments about the fuel rail pressure. I know that both Hurdy and I have no problems meeting the 130 bar, with us both often sustaining 130+ bar without issue.
at 6800 RPM i have a MAF reading of 273g/s with injection timing of 8.41 and im running revo stage 2+
going by the calculation of 245g/s = 320-330 then 273g/s = around 360bhp (MAF/0.75=BHP)
if 245g/s = 302bhp with your calculation then 273g/s =around 335bhp (MAF/0.81=BHP)
I would like to think im closer to 360bhp rather than 330bhp but to be honest i would be happy with either. Im running B9 T5 F6 and have noticed the flat spots high in the revs in 4th and 5th, im going to do some more logging on my EGT's, Rail Pressure, Injection timing, MAF,AFR's, CF's etc to see if dropping the boost down to 8 will solve the problem. i never had any flat spots till i went stage 2+, the highest boost setting i ran before when i was running Stage 1 was B7 so im thinking the increased boost from stage 2+ is causing the ECU to pull back for whatever reason. From logs i have done with B9T5F6 i do not get high CF's my rail pressure holds 130bar+ no problem my injection timing hasnt exceeded 8.41.
The only thing i havent been checking as much is my AFR and EGT temps, if it turns out my EGT's are high i think B8 would be the best method to solve this as requesting more fuel e.g F5 would lead to my injection timing increasing which i wouldnt imagine it can increase much more from 8.41. Anyone have any idead?
I will try do some logs in the morning and see what i can come up with.
Davie
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What does your boost curve look like? Is it able to meet requested and does it drop off anywhere?
I think F6 should be fine to keep your EGT's down. Another think your could try is advancing your timing to T6. Advance timing actually reduces EGTs as well. Log your overall timing advance to see what sort of timing progression you are making and try to iron out any flat spots.
The last thing I would look at is your engine load - this should advance smoothly through the rev range and not dip and rise back up anywhere. If you do have dips in your engine load it may be your spark plugs need changing (I am going to change/upgrade mine as I am trying to hunt down a flat spot I am getting ~4400RPM).
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I have the flat spot
stage 2+ cupra k1 with k04
B7 T5 F7
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So this is what we have worked out so far, up to stage 2 the car is fine, load stage 2 plus and the flat spot comes with it.
Is there anyone running a APR pump with this flat spot?
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has anybody got a dyno graph or logs to show this 5200rpm flatspot????. im yet to see graphed evidence of this.
Could be interesting to see if guys with the APR pump have the flat spot.
if you could get someone to allow you to meetup and do a temporary swap to see if the spot disappears with a different hpfp that would be quote useful, as it is dificult to compare differnt cars together
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has anybody got a dyno graph or logs to show this 5200rpm flatspot????. im yet to see graphed evidence of this.
Could be interesting to see if guys with the APR pump have the flat spot.
if you could get someone to allow you to meetup and do a temporary swap to see if the spot disappears with a different hpfp that would be quote useful, as it is dificult to compare differnt cars together
That is a good idea! Need to find a APR pump user! I think there are some logs from a k03 user. There is a video of the flat spot though!
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logs would be able to show you if your AFR, fueling, air mass, or boost are going tits up, a vidoe will show you the grand total of feck all except that it has a flat spot, which you already know
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So this is what we have worked out so far, up to stage 2 the car is fine, load stage 2 plus and the flat spot comes with it.
I dont think thats really accurate to be honest.. I ran an Autotech fuel pump and Revo Stage 2+ B9 T7 F9 with zero issues for me..
I think its not quite so simple as once you install 2+ you have a flat spot, as there are LOTS of cars out there without the issue..
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So this is what we have worked out so far, up to stage 2 the car is fine, load stage 2 plus and the flat spot comes with it.
I dont think thats really accurate to be honest.. I ran an Autotech fuel pump and Revo Stage 2+ B9 T7 F9 with zero issues for me..
I think its not quite so simple as once you install 2+ you have a flat spot, as there are LOTS of cars out there without the issue..
Didnt quite mean it like that, meant as in the cars affected were fine, till stage 2 plus. Thats the only fact we have on the issue, and even after all this time we havent come any closer as to working out why!
How comes your fuel was set at 9? Would have thought you be running 6?
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Didnt quite mean it like that, meant as in the cars affected were fine, till stage 2 plus. Thats the only fact we have on the issue, and even after all this time we havent come any closer as to working out why!
How comes your fuel was set at 9? Would have thought you be running 6?
Hmm.. Is an odd one, but if its fuel related then running the car leaner will help as it will lower the fuel request.. Although, I can't see it being that with a K04.. The injectors are more than upto the job..
Fuel is 9 because lean is fast! :wink:
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Didnt quite mean it like that, meant as in the cars affected were fine, till stage 2 plus. Thats the only fact we have on the issue, and even after all this time we havent come any closer as to working out why!
How comes your fuel was set at 9? Would have thought you be running 6?
Hmm.. Is an odd one, but if its fuel related then running the car leaner will help as it will lower the fuel request.. Although, I can't see it being that with a K04.. The injectors are more than upto the job..
Fuel is 9 because lean is fast! :wink:
revo seem to recommend fuel 6 to people thats why I was wondering why 9. I will try leaning mine out a bit once my vcds arrives.
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revo seem to recommend fuel 6 to people thats why I was wondering why 9. I will try leaning mine out a bit once my vcds arrives.
I have ran 9 from the start, thats within safe AFR limits so why not.. May as wel use less fuel and go faster at the same time..
Sneak up on the timing though, I managed to run 7 but my IAT's were always very low with no A/C etc.. 6 is usually the limit on V-Power..
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revo seem to recommend fuel 6 to people thats why I was wondering why 9. I will try leaning mine out a bit once my vcds arrives.
I have ran 9 from the start, thats within safe AFR limits so why not.. May as wel use less fuel and go faster at the same time..
Sneak up on the timing though, I managed to run 7 but my IAT's were always very low with no A/C etc.. 6 is usually the limit on V-Power..
Thanks will keep that in mind
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After doing some logs today i noticed a few things,
1. Running B9T5F6 the AFR was running around 0.78 - 0.80 which equates to around 11.3:1 - 12:1 this could be leaner.
2. Running B9 causes the boost to come in really hard around 3000rpm peaking at 1.6bar - 1.7bar then drops rapidly to around 1.4 -1.5bar and holds there till 6000rpm where it drops again to around 1.3 - 1.35bar
3. My MAF readings have always been around 270g/s on various logs
i have noticed when driving B9T5F6, the power comes in really hard then tails off as the revs progress.
I decided to try out B7 T5 F9 (less boost and leaner AFR) - car feels much stronger through the gears, far more progressive, no more flat spots in 4th (still to do some more testing to confirm 5th gear)
with B7T5F9 the boost comes in at around 1.5bar around 3000rpm and drops to around 1.4bar and holds right through to around 6000rpm, boost is around 1.3bar from 6000rpm till redline
AFR is running alot better now with F9 and is around 12:1 -12.5:1 which is alot better than 11:1 it was previously running.
Noticed a big difference with the MAF readings also at 6600rpm to 7000rpm my reading is now 300g/s - 306g/s
The car now pulls the way i feel it should have from when i went stage 2+ really surprised that backing the boost off and changing the fueling would make such a big difference.
Hopefully get a chance tommorow to do some more testing, ill try and get some thorough logs done and post them up.
As Revo say in the SelectPlus Guide:
"The Boost level can be set higher or lower than the default setting (Boost 6), altering
the driving characturistics of the car. As with Timing settings ‘bigger is not always
better’"
Cheers Davie
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^^^^^^
good informative write up David :congrats: :congrats:
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my date to get this sorted has been put back to the 27th as milltek are dragging there arse waiting for parts for the cat. theve only known about it for just over a month :fighting: :fighting:
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After doing some logs today i noticed a few things,
1. Running B9T5F6 the AFR was running around 0.78 - 0.80 which equates to around 11.3:1 - 12:1 this could be leaner.
2. Running B9 causes the boost to come in really hard around 3000rpm peaking at 1.6bar - 1.7bar then drops rapidly to around 1.4 -1.5bar and holds there till 6000rpm where it drops again to around 1.3 - 1.35bar
3. My MAF readings have always been around 270g/s on various logs
i have noticed when driving B9T5F6, the power comes in really hard then tails off as the revs progress.
I decided to try out B7 T5 F9 (less boost and leaner AFR) - car feels much stronger through the gears, far more progressive, no more flat spots in 4th (still to do some more testing to confirm 5th gear)
with B7T5F9 the boost comes in at around 1.5bar around 3000rpm and drops to around 1.4bar and holds right through to around 6000rpm, boost is around 1.3bar from 6000rpm till redline
AFR is running alot better now with F9 and is around 12:1 -12.5:1 which is alot better than 11:1 it was previously running.
Noticed a big difference with the MAF readings also at 6600rpm to 7000rpm my reading is now 300g/s - 306g/s
The car now pulls the way i feel it should have from when i went stage 2+ really surprised that backing the boost off and changing the fueling would make such a big difference.
Hopefully get a chance tommorow to do some more testing, ill try and get some thorough logs done and post them up.
As Revo say in the SelectPlus Guide:
"The Boost level can be set higher or lower than the default setting (Boost 6), altering
the driving characturistics of the car. As with Timing settings ‘bigger is not always
better’"
Cheers Davie
What car, what turbo and what revo stage map and what supporting mods do you have ?
Will the car in 4th rev right round to 7k without pausing and pulling back at about 5k revs?
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What car, what turbo and what revo stage map and what supporting mods do you have ?
Will the car in 4th rev right round to 7k without pausing and pulling back at about 5k revs?
Audi S3, K04 Turbo, Revo Stage 2+, Evoms CAI, Uprated OEM Diverter Valve, Forge Catch Can Kit, MV Sport DP, NGK Iridium Plugs
The car was pulling right through 4th gear with zero pausing at the usual spot around 5k revs. I will take the car out today and see how its running. I want to try a few different scenarios to see if the flat spot is gone.
Cheers Davie
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What car, what turbo and what revo stage map and what supporting mods do you have ?
Will the car in 4th rev right round to 7k without pausing and pulling back at about 5k revs?
Audi S3, K04 Turbo, Revo Stage 2+, Evoms CAI, Uprated OEM Diverter Valve, Forge Catch Can Kit, MV Sport DP, NGK Iridium Plugs
The car was pulling right through 4th gear with zero pausing at the usual spot around 5k revs. I will take the car out today and see how its running. I want to try a few different scenarios to see if the flat spot is gone.
Cheers Davie
Hmmm, sounds good. Please let us know the outcome.
Might get my fuel level raised on mine, the flat spot is doing my head in, its like the ecu is pulling back somewhere.
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Well my car was having the flat spot issue too.
Skoda Octavia vRS, K03s Turbo, Revo Stage 2+, Miltek TBE, Autotech FP, Neuspeed Turbo Outlet, EVOMS, S3 intercooler B9 T7 F6 (As recommended by Revo.
I decided after reading David's post i would go out change my settings to B7 T5 F9 do some logging and see what happens.
I was shocked to say the least. The car now pulls a lot more cleanly and from logging it appears to be making more power on B7 T5 F9 (working of the Air Mass g/s measurement) On B9 T7 F6 i had timing pull of around -2.3 to - 3 on a couple of cylinders through the rev range.
Whereas now there is no timing pull whatsoever and the car is making more power despite having less boost.
Have a look at these logs
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2FScreenshot2010-03-11at125640.png&hash=dbd3e444c3baffaff13775e8fe7657f18c98aa65)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2FScreenshot2010-03-11at125710.png&hash=04f64d7acaa5faefb6cc437bf0d9141dde0fa2d2)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2FScreenshot2010-03-11at125926.png&hash=c0cdc792009a2363be0fac64497030641f44819c)
Very healthy from what i can see
So maybe the best settings for a Stage 2+ car are B7 T5 F9
Carl :happy2:
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logs are looking very healthy Carl :happy2:
It would be interesting to hear what Revo say about this - having advised us all to lower the Fuel after fitting a CAI
Seems JonnyC knows more about their software than they do
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I always thought F9 was the setting for stage 2+ on a ko3.
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I've emailed them to Keith @ JKM to see what he thinks aswell
Carl :happy2:
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I always thought F9 was the setting for stage 2+ on a ko3.
So did i but when i was trying to find the problem with the low power runs on the Dyno i sent loads of logs to Kev at Revo and he specifically stated for me to run B9 T7 F6
Carl :happy2:
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Any luck sorting your issues Carl?
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Nope
I give up with it now. My next step is K04 or an R36 Passat :happy2:
Carl :happy2:
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So going leaner less fuel makes more power?? How does that work. I thought more fuel with more air make more power?
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So going leaner less fuel makes more power?? How does that work. I thought more fuel with more air make more power?
a better air to fuel ratio makes a more clean and efficient burn/explosion.
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So going leaner less fuel makes more power?? How does that work. I thought more fuel with more air make more power?
a better air to fuel ratio makes a more clean and efficient burn/explosion.
Did you try yours on F9 yet?
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Na mate, wont be running the car hard/adjusting settings till my vcds arrives so I can log at the same time.
Some more interesting data from a different member from SCN who also seems to have this flat spot on his revo stage 2 plus. Hoping jonny will have some more insight on the following.
I had previously posted a thread regarding my car cutting out with a low fuel/pressure, my local vag specialist Euro Performance, with great guidance from Kevin at REVO. Painstakely checked over data logging for a number of days:-
The possible issues intitially thought were
fuel filter blocked - checked and replaced pretty clogged
fuel pump faulty - removed and checked all looked fine cam follower replaced just as precaution
hpfp seizing - no markings on the internals and appeared to be working fine
They carried on data logging and eventually noticed that on acceleration, the fuel rail when reaching 130 bar fuel pressure. The fuel rail sensor was shutting down the car into limp mode or even stalling the car. It was established the that sensor was only capable of 130 bar of pressure and, on the logs once it requested 134 bar, the sensor would shut it down.
They then ordered a RS4 fuel rail sensor which is capable of 2.2 bar of pressure (I think), once fitted it allowed the required pressure to then be supplied.
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Rs4 fuel rail sensor group buy anyone! :pomppomp:
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Rs4 fuel rail sensor group buy anyone! :pomppomp:
Thing im concerned about is though if the pump can only physically supply 130bar, and the car wants 134bar, then surely thats not good, and fitting a rs4 sensor is just masking a issue?
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Had the car out today with B7 T5 F9 and it wad running spot on - no flat spots through 3rd 4th and 5th :happy2:
I remember when the first day i got the car back from my Revo dealer, they had the settings at B8 T3 F6 (they set T3 as they werent sure what fue i ran). On the drive home i had flat spots in 4th and sometimes 5th so i had a read on here and seen that most people run and decided B9 T5 F6 so i gave this a try and still had flat spots...Ordered new NGK Iridium Plugs and and ran some STP Injector Cleaner in with a full tank of fuel. Ran the full tank of fuel with injector cleaner in it and filled up again (Vpower). The next day i was still gettting flat spots sometimes 3rd and more commonly 4th and 5th so the issue was not resolved.
I had really been racking my brain with this as i didnt have this issue running stage 1 software on B9 T5 F9, The only thing i could put it down to was running to higher boost and something was pulling back or giving in. From logs i had done on B9 T5 F6 i had seen the boost powering in early around 3k RPM @ 1.7bar and dying off higher up the rev range which i wasnt too happy with also the AFR was running a little rich.
After trying B7 T5 F9 i noticed a huge difference, smoother power delivery and felt overal better, logs showed the boost coming in at around 1.5 - 1.6 bar vs 1.7bar with B9, The boost through the rev range on B7 & B9 is very similar, the main difference is you arent getting a huge load of boost hitting in at 3k RPM. Running B7 brings the boost in less aggresively but sustains good levels of boost right till redline. Ran some checks on the AFR and its running leaner which im also happy about as it was too rich with F6.
So today i done some more logs, checked all my CF's for each cylinder and could see they were all around 0, as i run Vpower i decided to try T6 and do some more logs. The car feels sharper with T6 and im not seeing any CF's above 3 at peak RPM so all good there. Still running great with ZERO flat spots :happy2:
Im going to have a tinker around tommorow and try B8, im almost 100% sure that if i set B8 the flat spots are going to appear again, as i mentioned earlier the car was set at B8 by the Revo dealer and caused flat spots. If they do appear again then that settles it for me and i know its down to running to high a boost setting.
I will be attending a rolling road day on Sunday so will get the car on the rollers with B7 T6 F9 and see what it makes and get a look at the graphs.
Cheers Davie
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excellent findings there, excited to read about your findings on boost 8!
Really dont understand why revo are telling everyone to run Boost 9, timing 6 fuel 6? Id rather have more boost higher up the revs that more boost down low! So once me and one or two others change our settings and come up with the same result, its because of improperly setup cars!
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I tried boost 8 fuel 9 and timing 5,6&7. Also tried other fuelling ( 8 & 7 )
B7 T5 F9 seemed to give the best results according to the logs. Not saying that's the same for every car but for my car and it seems davies S3 B9 T6 or 7 and F6 definately isn't right.
Carl :happy2:
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Its really weird as I removed all my mods once bar the stage 2 + map, and the flat spot was still there. I then changed the settings to boost 8, timing 5, fuel 9 and the flat spot was gone and drove really well, but I never gave it any thought as there were no other mods on the car. Need to try it with the mods.
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trial and error my friend but if changing our settings doesnt work its back to the drawing board.. we can only try .. after 13 pages here and 8 on scn with still no answers what have we got to lose !
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trial and error my friend but if changing our settings doesnt work its back to the drawing board.. we can only try .. after 13 pages here and 8 on scn with still no answers what have we got to lose !
Our sanity :laugh:
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pov bring your SPS+ out on weekend so i can change my settings! lol im poor and only have the SPS switch :(
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We are getting better slightly.
B8 t6 f9 pulls hard. Still a flat spot but not as noticeable
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Video of a k04 car with flat spot.
Its gone from b7 timing 5 fuel 7 to boost 8 timing 6 fuel 9 and seems to run much better.
Anyway compare the two vids and come up with your own conclusion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfDc-OEzhgE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfDc-OEzhgE) b7 timing 5 fuel 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFLVP-dDWyE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFLVP-dDWyE) b8 timing 6 fuel 9
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Just to let you all know my sports cat was replaced on Thursday. Everything is sorted at the flatspot has gone. Milltek have actually stopped doing two different size down pipes k03/k04 they now just do the 77mm which I beleive is the one they used on the k04.
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i have ordered up the RS4 fuel pressure regulating valve to see if i can get rid of the flat spot on B9 setting. The OEM valve limits the pressure to 130bar vs the RS4 valve that limits the pressure to 136bar. Near redline i have seen requested fuel rail pressure at 132bar but the actual rail pressure never goes much above 130bar then drops to about 127bar and builds back up to 130bar..therefore the OEM valve must be doing its job and opening and closing to stop the pressure exceeding 130bar. With the RS4 valve im expecting the requested fuel rail pressure to be met as the valve will stay closed up to 136bar. if there is a pressure surge it will still protect the fuel rail and open to release any pressure above 136bar. Ill keep you guys updated.
The valve in ETKA:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fg234%2Fdavid_phillips95%2Frs4fuelregulatorvalve.jpg&hash=4d437ffa3f1d79d9805f6b381de524fe1abb70d6)
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That valve looks like a b*tch to install if you don't remove the intake manifold...
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I have fitted the RS4 valve to my car. It was a bit of pig to fit without removing the inlet manifold. I found sleeving a piece of 5/8 hose over the valve to spin it undone and removing it made light work of it though. I've not yet had chance to drive it hard enough to see if it has cured the dreaded flat spot but the car deffinately feels smoother and more responsive.
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It has been done on my car too.
This is the valve that came out.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi50.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff341%2Fdjhorace%2F04042010009.jpg&hash=b79494d3ebb17fa1b4f9e4fbc0623240bc883f1a)
Unfortunately I havent had the chance to run mine properly yet either.
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I'm now running B7 T5 F9 and the car runs like an S.O.B. :laugh: :evilgrin:
I have had the RS4 valve fitted for a few months now and have also had the Forge K04 actuator fitted.
The Actuator took a fair bit of setting up, but now it is settled in it runs just great.
The RS4 valve ensures that the actual meets requested. Like others have already said, my car failed to meet requested between 0 and 5 bar, which could give issues with how the car runs (although I haven't felt anything).
The side effect of fitting the valve is that it helps with the low pressure in-tank pump. I found during logging that before the RS4 valve was fitted my in-tank pressure was dropping down to 3.5bar, which would affect it's ability to back up the high pressure rail system. Now the valve is fitted it doesn't drop below 3.9, so it has the ability to back-up the rail system faster. :smiley:
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John - Did you get my text about setting up my car for Steve mate?
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Hurdy,
isn't your boost 7 the equivalent of boost 9 due to your actuator fiddling ?
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John - Did you get my text about setting up my car for Steve mate?
Yeah :happy2:
I'll be down Tuesday afternoon to sort it :smiley:
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John - Did you get my text about setting up my car for Steve mate?
Are you still down south getting your car sorted.
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Hurdy,
isn't your boost 7 the equivalent of boost 9 due to your actuator fiddling ?
Yup :happy2:
Before the actuator I'd been using B9 T6 F6 and B9 T7 F9 & F6 (when trialling octane booster :evilgrin:)
Both worked fine :smiley:
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John - Did you get my text about setting up my car for Steve mate?
Are you still down south getting your car sorted.
His car is here, but he's back home.
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Thanks bud. It will have an Evoms on it, so I am guessing Boost 9 Timing 6 Fuel 6 maybe? Bummed I wont be there to take it for its first blast with the Wavetrac, but I am sure it will be down the drag strip before I get back :pomppomp:
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When do you pick it up im off Monday and Tuesday we can meet up somewhere if you like.
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Friday bud. Will be coming down in Owens car to have the same things done plus a few others and taking mine back North. A meet would be good :happy2:
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Probably see you both there Friday afternoon then :happy2:
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:sad1: hows the car al ?
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That valve looks like a b*tch to install if you don't remove the intake manifold...
Remove the line going to the pump
remove t30 torx holding line to of manifold and one on the bottom right.
14mm crows foot to remove the line
17mm crows foot to remove the valve itself.
Install is reverse of removal
Can be done in about 10 minutes this way.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tech.purdue.edu%2Fat%2Fcourses%2Faeml%2Fairframeimages%2Fcrows%2520feet.jpg&hash=e86d43064e01d68f5c151bea93188cdc2e3d7d3b)
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:sad1: hows the car al ?
Best ask Hurdy bud. He was in it today, set up Revo and fired it up (thanks lad). Should be fully alive and kicking tomorrow though I believe :happy2:
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:sad1: hows the car al ?
Best ask Hurdy bud. He was in it today, set up Revo and fired it up (thanks lad). Should be fully alive and kicking tomorrow though I believe :happy2:
Sounds nice and smooth. Gears all go in :happy2: Not actually moved it anywhere though, still waiting on fitting the EVOM's.
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:pomppomp: Whooop ! go hurdy and crew. where are you based, might take mine to people who actaully know what they are doing :signLOL:
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:pomppomp: Whooop ! go hurdy and crew. where are you based, might take mine to people who actaully know what they are doing :signLOL:
Its all been done at stattlers in sheffield mate, about 4-5hrs from london i think, quite a drive just for sme mods, mind you Al has come from scotland :signLOL:.
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:pomppomp: Whooop ! go hurdy and crew. where are you based, might take mine to people who actaully know what they are doing :signLOL:
Its all been done at stattlers in sheffield mate, about 4-5hrs from london i think, quite a drive just for sme mods, mind you Al has come from scotland :signLOL:.
I think Al mentioned something like 390 miles down trip! :surprised:
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Reckon he was able to do it on one tank down to Sheffield? CupraK1, that will be about 150 miles upto Sheffield from Hounslow mate.
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Reckon he was able to do it on one tank down to Sheffield? CupraK1, that will be about 150 miles upto Sheffield from Hounslow mate.
Yep, I did 400 miles on a tank. Will be driving down Owens one this Friday to get mine, and expect more miles from the tank as I will be using GIAC granny mode :)
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I always like the fact GIAC had an economy mode available to allow you to bring the power right down and make it into an economy box instead of an all out power machine all the time. I wish it was available from more vendors like I stated years ago on the "other" forum.
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Aye his car is really cool in that you can switch code while you are driving. Being honest, I felt glad I had Revo on my car as it seemed to get a bit ahead for a while, but GIAC extreme and the switch box is a nice piece of kit, and I would say that having been in the Extreme cars and S2+ cars, while there is little in it, the edge would probably go to GIAC performance wise.
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I would say that having been in the Extreme cars and S2+ cars, while there is little in it, the edge would probably go to GIAC performance wise.
I dont think there will be many people who will agree with that statement lol
There's a thread on audi-sport discussing GIAC extreme vs S2+. There are several users who moved from GIAC to Revo because the GIAC Extreme wasnt perfroming as well as other users running Revo S2+. I run Revo S2+ and i think its brilliant.
Davie
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you can also adjust your revo settings on the move if you have your laptop and select+ hooked up and turn your settings right down to make your own eco mode
That valve looks like a b*tch to install if you don't remove the intake manifold...
Remove the line going to the pump
remove t30 torx holding line to of manifold and one on the bottom right.
14mm crows foot to remove the line
17mm crows foot to remove the valve itself.
Install is reverse of removal
Can be done in about 10 minutes this way.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tech.purdue.edu%2Fat%2Fcourses%2Faeml%2Fairframeimages%2Fcrows%2520feet.jpg&hash=e86d43064e01d68f5c151bea93188cdc2e3d7d3b)
Cupra do you have any more pics of the install as mine arrived last week and I can see where it goes but how the hell do you get to it
thanks
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you can also adjust your revo settings on the move if you have your laptop and select+ hooked up and turn your settings right down to make your own eco mode
That valve looks like a b*tch to install if you don't remove the intake manifold...
Remove the line going to the pump
remove t30 torx holding line to of manifold and one on the bottom right.
14mm crows foot to remove the line
17mm crows foot to remove the valve itself.
Install is reverse of removal
Can be done in about 10 minutes this way.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tech.purdue.edu%2Fat%2Fcourses%2Faeml%2Fairframeimages%2Fcrows%2520feet.jpg&hash=e86d43064e01d68f5c151bea93188cdc2e3d7d3b)
Cupra do you have any more pics of the install as mine arrived last week and I can see where it goes but how the hell do you get to it
thanks
I dont know how you managed it in 10mins cause its a nightmare.
I fitted mine today took me around an hour maybe slightly more. Had to removed the DV and its bracket and a few clips and things around that area. Not as simple as it sounds. When looseing & tightening the fuel valve the crows foot doesnt cut it, i used a 17mm combinations spanner and a few other 17mm spanners with various pitches. Got there in the end but its one of the moost frustrating mods i have done lol
Hopefully it makes a difference.
Davie
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cupra lifted those instructions from vortex here :
Remove the line going to the pump
remove t30 torx holding line to of manifold and one on the bottom right.
14mm crows foot to remove the line
17mm crows foot to remove the valve itself.
Install is reverse of removal ;)
Can be done in about 10 minutes this way.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4816332&page=3
Chris @ revo says it can be done in 10 mins but others in the thread took much longer.
Keep us updated on what kind of a difference it makes Davie, I'd be interested to see what you rail pressure looks like pre and post this mod.
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aah my crows feet spanners arrived in the post today... all ready for an attempt tomorrow, i was not confident before you mentioned that but now I might leave it to the pro's
unless anyone want to have a go on sunday at fitting it for me
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cupra lifted those instructions from vortex here :
Remove the line going to the pump
remove t30 torx holding line to of manifold and one on the bottom right.
14mm crows foot to remove the line
17mm crows foot to remove the valve itself.
Install is reverse of removal ;)
Can be done in about 10 minutes this way.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4816332&page=3
Chris @ revo says it can be done in 10 mins but others in the thread took much longer.
Keep us updated on what kind of a difference it makes Davie, I'd be interested to see what you rail pressure looks like pre and post this mod.
Ill get some logs done when i get a chance, going to crail to run the 1/4 mile on sunday so might take my VCDS and do some logging as im doing my runs. It could be done in less than ten minutes with the intake manifold removed but there is no chance someone could swap it over in 10minutes. I would have done a write up with pictures etc but had to get it done quickly as i was working later and needed the car. Before going to work i had the car running B9 T6 F9 and in fourth gear (on a private road) i never noticed and flat spot around the usual 5k'ish area. I will do some more thorough testing to find out if this mod has made any improvements.
Cheers Davie
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aah my crows feet spanners arrived in the post today... all ready for an attempt tomorrow, i was not confident before you mentioned that but now I might leave it to the pro's
unless anyone want to have a go on sunday at fitting it for me
Get a good look at it tommorow and see if you think its worth attempting, there's so little space that you can hardly get a finger on the valve so when it comes to re-installing the RS4 one its a real pain to get the threads started. My neighbours must have thought i had developed tourette syndrome when i was working on the car today haha. My dad was out at the garage at the time so he helped me out which made it alot easier also.
Davie
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I dont think there will be many people who will agree with that statement lol
There's a thread on audi-sport discussing GIAC extreme vs S2+. There are several users who moved from GIAC to Revo because the GIAC Extreme wasnt perfroming as well as other users running Revo S2+. I run Revo S2+ and i think its brilliant.
Davie
I run Revo S2+ myself, and I believe that the GIAC extreme plus may well be a little quicker. As far as I know, only 6 cars in the UK run the GIAC Extreme plus file, so I doubt we are referencing the code. Extreme Plus needs the RS4 valve and a 3" intake (VF) and fuel rail pressure is way more than on a Revo S2+ car.
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For what its worth, I had the RS4 valve fitted in my car this week and the car is now a lot smoother. There still appears to be a little hesistation at 5200rpm, but nowhere near as pronounced as it was before. Having been in 3 GIAC cars, I think this may well be an engine characteristic with a strong map as they behave in a very similar way to way mine behaves now.
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I run Revo S2+ myself, and I believe that the GIAC extreme plus may well be a little quicker. As far as I know, only 6 cars in the UK run the GIAC Extreme plus file, so I doubt we are referencing the code. Extreme Plus needs the RS4 valve and a 3" intake (VF) and fuel rail pressure is way more than on a Revo S2+ car.
[/quote]
The RS4 valve nor VF intake was advised (by a reputable GIAC dealer ) for the S3 owner I'm aware of who tried the code. His evoms was considered suitable. In any case said S3 owner found it less smooth and according to his bum dyno less powerful than his hammer map and reverted.
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cupra lifted those instructions from vortex here :
Remove the line going to the pump
remove t30 torx holding line to of manifold and one on the bottom right.
14mm crows foot to remove the line
17mm crows foot to remove the valve itself.
Install is reverse of removal ;)
Can be done in about 10 minutes this way.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4816332&page=3
Chris @ revo says it can be done in 10 mins but others in the thread took much longer.
Keep us updated on what kind of a difference it makes Davie, I'd be interested to see what you rail pressure looks like pre and post this mod.
so revo are now finally publicly acknowledging that their was a issue, and its not the "weak valve springs" like they were so adamant about for months on end :grin:
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so revo are now finally publicly acknowledging that their was a issue, and its not the "weak valve springs" like they were so adamant about for months on end :grin:
??? I just think he was being helpful when someone asked about installation tips..
You do know there is a TSB from VAG about weak valve springs on certain model year motors?
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so revo are now finally publicly acknowledging that their was a issue, and its not the "weak valve springs" like they were so adamant about for months on end :grin:
??? I just think he was being helpful when someone asked about installation tips..
You do know there is a TSB from VAG about weak valve springs on certain model year motors?
yeah im aware of that, but it seems unreleated to this flat spot, and more a issue of misfires higher up the rev range.
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Was running doen the 1/4 mile today :) Car was pulling great and didnt feel any flat spots :):) first time i have ever done a 1/4 mile so i think there is room for improvement. Best times i managed was a 12.7 & 12.8 the rest were low 13's.
Have a look here
http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/select_run.asp?CarNumber=30&RunDate=20100411
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I think you fkin bunged the timer!! Look at the ra, 60ft time, end speed?? Please explain how my times and speeds are better but my time is sh*te compared to yours? How can you run 0.7sec quicker but be 10mph slower at finish? Still smartin. No good at maths but cant get ma head rnd it?
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I think you fkin bunged the timer!! Look at the ra, 60ft time, end speed?? Please explain how my times and speeds are better but my time is sh*te compared to yours? How can you run 0.7sec quicker but be 10mph slower at finish? Still smartin. No good at maths but cant get ma head rnd it?
I braked before the line when i raced you as i couldnt see how far i had left to brake cause the fog, you were a good bit behind so didnt catch me even when i slowed. you got a better start than me but i pulled past you and braked earlier than you. Timer was working fine, hardly think it was out when everyone elses times were fine. Just get a fuel pump on yours and stop whining lol
i was running 3/4 tank of fuel with a passenger where as you had minimal fuel no passenger, stage 2+ is wild compared to stage 1 with an exhaust, my 60ft time was faster than yours though and 3rd gear onwards mine shot past you.
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yeah im aware of that, but it seems unreleated to this flat spot, and more a issue of misfires higher up the rev range.
Hmm.. Don't know, can't really comment as I have never experienced it myself mate..
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Impressed, your a cock but bloody hell am impressed its seriously quick certainly no flat spots on that, get yout ra right and you will get your 12.5 nae bother.
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Impressed, your a cock but bloody hell am impressed its seriously quick certainly no flat spots on that, get yout ra right and you will get your 12.5 nae bother.
Uprated lower mount is next as i was struggling to engage 2nd and sometimes 3rd which i think is down to the movement on the engine at high RPM, dont have any problems when im on the road tho which is weird. I think it was just down to nerves and trying to be to fast with changes. You have to be pretty accurate with the short shifter or it can be a pain to engage. Im more than happy with 12.7 but 12.5 would be something to work towards. My tires are due a change so some new tires, stiffer mount some adjustment on the short shifter and it should be good for high 12's all day.
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Was running doen the 1/4 mile today :) Car was pulling great and didnt feel any flat spots :):) first time i have ever done a 1/4 mile so i think there is room for improvement. Best times i managed was a 12.7 & 12.8 the rest were low 13's.
Have a look here
http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/select_run.asp?CarNumber=30&RunDate=20100411
12.7 is a fantastic time mate well done :happy2:
Post your time sheet up on this thread so you can be put up on the leaderboard:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9244.150.html
The fasted 2.0 TFSI manual at the moment was a 3071R S3 which also got 12.7. So to match that on a K04 is pretty good...
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Cheers KRL,
Chuffed with the result, would love to see what time i could run with better tires and no passenger and excess fuel. The clutch really makes sending the power to the wheels easy.
Found a video on youtube someone has taken, my mate was having a shot with me passenger in this run against an astra vxr.
Its around 42sec mark on the video
and heres the times from that run:
http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=30&RunDate=20100411&RaceID=530
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Great launch there mate!
Im pretty sure fastest K04 time with an S3 is a 12.2 by Revo Romania..
You should come to Santa Pod and run a time there to see how they compare.. :smiley:
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Great launch there mate!
Im pretty sure fastest K04 time with an S3 is a 12.2 by Revo Romania..
You should come to Santa Pod and run a time there to see how they compare.. :smiley:
Its about 500miles from where i stay to the pod, will hopefully run it one day but getting there takes a while lol. My mate was driving in that video, i was passenger. I ran the 12.7 with me driving and my mate passenger with 3/4 tank of fuel. I reckon with better tyres, minimal fuel and no passengers i could shed quite a bit of time especially at santa pod as the surface there is better by miles. As i said above im going to look into upgrading the engine mounts as i reckon they are making gear changes difficult with the torque moving the engine. 12.2 is unreal, thats surely with DSG tho?
Cheers Davie
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Great launch there mate!
Im pretty sure fastest K04 time with an S3 is a 12.2 by Revo Romania..
You should come to Santa Pod and run a time there to see how they compare.. :smiley:
Its about 500miles from where i stay to the pod, will hopefully run it one day but getting there takes a while lol. My mate was driving in that video, i was passenger. I ran the 12.7 with me driving and my mate passenger with 3/4 tank of fuel. I reckon with better tyres, minimal fuel and no passengers i could shed quite a bit of time especially at santa pod as the surface there is better by miles. As i said above im going to look into upgrading the engine mounts as i reckon they are making gear changes difficult with the torque moving the engine. 12.2 is unreal, thats surely with DSG tho?
Cheers Davie
Nah thats a manual S3.. But to be fair, its not a proper drag track that there running the times on so who knows.. Santa Pod is a good level playing field (when its got any grip) but at 500 miles its hardly local lol.. Its over 200 for me too.. Shame :(