MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: bluo on February 05, 2015, 11:48:24 pm

Title: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 05, 2015, 11:48:24 pm
Ok guys, I know there's a lot of information and opinions out there on brakes and different routes to take...

I'm looking at two, namely the new VWR monobloc brake setup OR the audi b7 rs4 - lambo / r8 brakes.

If I go with the b7 rs4 setup I'll need to paint either the back or front calipers to match the rears which will remain standard.

What are your thoughts on these two setups and does anyone have any advice?

I've got the cash to spend and they are within a couple 100 of each other.

Oh and it's for a mk5 GTi with around 400bhp.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: th3_f15t on February 06, 2015, 10:53:37 am
Lambo brakes, just because they'll be that much cooler. Also, aren't VW Racing brakes only 6-piston where the Lambo ones are 8-piston?
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: xjay1337 on February 06, 2015, 01:01:28 pm
Too many pistons. meh brake pedal.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: th3_f15t on February 06, 2015, 01:10:57 pm
Too many pistons. meh brake pedal.

For a 400bhp Golf? Maybe consider a master cylinder upgrade too for better pedal feel?
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: xjay1337 on February 06, 2015, 01:24:23 pm
4 pot Porsche set up or TTRS is more than enough for 400bhp.
with r32 rears or an alternate 4 pot rear set up will be ample.

lambo brakes 8/12/16 pot calipers like tarrox etc more for scene than performance (imo of course)  :innocent:
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: Cossie Killer on February 06, 2015, 01:55:42 pm
out of interest, why do so many seem to steer away from the Likes of AP Racing?

I had AP Racing 6 pots with floating disks on my escort and they are by far the best brakes I've ever used.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: MK1Campaign on February 06, 2015, 02:28:52 pm
out of interest, why do so many seem to steer away from the Likes of AP Racing?

I had AP Racing 6 pots with floating disks on my escort and they are by far the best brakes I've ever used.

AP are some of the best brakes available but this site is full of scene boys who want looks over performance  :P
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: Orc on February 06, 2015, 02:30:14 pm
Thinking of the Alcon Vwrs on eBay!!
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: Cossie Killer on February 06, 2015, 02:48:37 pm

out of interest, why do so many seem to steer away from the Likes of AP Racing?

I had AP Racing 6 pots with floating disks on my escort and they are by far the best brakes I've ever used.

AP are some of the best brakes available but this site is full of scene boys who want looks over performance  :P

Haha I thought they looked quite nice....
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: rich83 on February 06, 2015, 03:18:03 pm
2 piece disc and either db9 calipers or lambo/rs4 8 pots with the master cylinder upgrade
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: MC71 on February 06, 2015, 03:52:18 pm
^^^^ This.

Mine is happy with Porsche 986 4pots front and S3 rear and is happy as Larry.

Starting from scratch then (as Rich says) Id get the bigger 2 piece discs and the DB9 Caliper 4 Pots for the front. 8 pot Lambo/R8's look immense so if you've got £2-£3k for the front set up go with that plus master cylinder on top.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 06, 2015, 06:53:10 pm

out of interest, why do so many seem to steer away from the Likes of AP Racing?

I had AP Racing 6 pots with floating disks on my escort and they are by far the best brakes I've ever used.

AP were one of my choices - am I wrong in saying that pads aren't as easily available for them except for buying direct?
Title: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: Cossie Killer on February 06, 2015, 06:56:11 pm
I never had problems purchasing pads for them, loads of sites maybe dont advertise but if they stock the calipers, they'll be able to source. Reyland Motorsport can supply everything youd need.... Im sure he's already got the brackets for a mk5 as well.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 08, 2015, 07:31:10 pm
Anyone know what would be involved in making these work on the golf gti?
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=251790566757
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: rich83 on February 08, 2015, 07:36:06 pm
Anyone know what would be involved in making these work on the golf gti?
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=251790566757

Front will be easy providing you can get a bracket to suit them. The rears will be more bother... Electric handbrake.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 08, 2015, 07:42:42 pm

Anyone know what would be involved in making these work on the golf gti?
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=251790566757

Front will be easy providing you can get a bracket to suit them. The rears will be more bother... Electric handbrake.

Thought as much... The seller said he'd do a deal for cash so I thought I'd check first.

I've got the cash so I want to make the right purchase once and there seems to be sooooo much choice so not sure what to go for!
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: rich83 on February 08, 2015, 07:51:04 pm
http://www.reyland.co.uk/vw-golf-all-models/

Second down. That's what I would get if I were buying again. AP calipers and AP discs.

Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 08, 2015, 08:24:43 pm

http://www.reyland.co.uk/vw-golf-all-models/

Second down. That's what I would get if I were buying again. AP calipers and AP discs.

Why 4 pot instead of 6? (Other than price).

Do you know if the red matches the vw red?
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: Cossie Killer on February 08, 2015, 08:27:50 pm
What power are you running?!
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 08, 2015, 08:50:13 pm
I'm in the process of upgrading hardware and hoping to be around 380bhp hence stating around 400 in opening post.

I'd like to future proof it a little if poss but open to advice.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: Cossie Killer on February 08, 2015, 08:55:16 pm
Id of said 4 pots would be ample, but if you were going to spend 2.5k on them brakes on ebay, get 6 pot APs.... Maybe a tad overkill but still cheaper.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: Cossie Killer on February 08, 2015, 08:56:23 pm
Ps give reyland a call for advice, he'll be able to offer loads with regards to track time etc.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 08, 2015, 08:57:36 pm

Id of said 4 pots would be ample, but if you were going to spend 2.5k on them brakes on ebay, get 6 pot APs.... Maybe a tad overkill but still cheaper.

Would you do anything to the rears?
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: MC71 on February 08, 2015, 08:59:45 pm
Id of said 4 pots would be ample, but if you were going to spend 2.5k on them brakes on ebay, get 6 pot APs.... Maybe a tad overkill but still cheaper.

Get Lambo/R8 8 pots with everthing needed re brackets, discs, pads etc for £2.5k.




Id of said 4 pots would be ample, but if you were going to spend 2.5k on them brakes on ebay, get 6 pot APs.... Maybe a tad overkill but still cheaper.

Would you do anything to the rears?

Yes, add Audi S3 rear Calipers for their bigger pot and their larger discs (which are also  vented and not solid).

Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 13, 2015, 06:05:39 pm
I've made my choice... AP Racing CP5555 6 pots... Thanks for allowing me to bounce ideas of you guys!
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: Cossie Killer on February 13, 2015, 11:19:58 pm
Nice....
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: rich83 on February 13, 2015, 11:28:21 pm
They should do the trick!

Piston area is 2961.76mm2 per caliper
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 14, 2015, 01:18:50 am
It's just BIG though, it's designed for a 32mm wide disc and they struggled getting a wheel over it so machined each half back by 2mm and used a 28mm wide disc.

Problem is thinner disc equals smaller diameter unless you want to spend GT team money
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: flashp on February 14, 2015, 08:11:08 am
I've made my choice... AP Racing CP5555 6 pots... Thanks for allowing me to bounce ideas of you guys!
I have mine on order with BG Developments, I went for a variation on this with this kit as they have smaller bodied 'skinnier' calipers which help my wheel clearance.
From the AP site you can download a correctly scaled profile template that you cut out, stick to cardboard and can accurately check clearance.

Mine uses the CP5575 caliper. http://www.apracing.com/product_details/road_car_upgrades/factory_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5_r32-front_6_piston_kit_cp5575m1011-2005_on.aspx (http://www.apracing.com/product_details/road_car_upgrades/factory_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5_r32-front_6_piston_kit_cp5575m1011-2005_on.aspx)

It looks like this:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi326.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk438%2Fflashp%2Fapcaliper_zps26ea8c1c.jpg&hash=a257944fbfb62259798d539a9c2b3c4ca4aad318)

It also uses strap drive discs which gives you a floating disc without rattling bobbins or springs which need to kept clean. Best of both a floating disc and rigid bolted system in one and a 32mm thick disc.



Useful links:
http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk/ (http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk/)
http://blog.stillen.com/2010/01/technology-spotlight-ap-racing-strap-drive-brake-rotors/ (http://blog.stillen.com/2010/01/technology-spotlight-ap-racing-strap-drive-brake-rotors/)

Pagid themselves recommended a new RST3 pad compound for the front (BG can supply this with the kit instead of the default AP404's for an extra £45) and an 'S' series pad for the r32 rears I have. The rear setup should be adequate.
Both of these are fine for both road and track day use.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: Orc on February 14, 2015, 09:06:40 am
Awesome I'm after some too what's the price on these dude??
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 14, 2015, 01:44:58 pm
Those look nice! I think the cp5575 are now discontinued but I may be wrong. Cp5555 are the replacements.

I have a cant white GTi with black lowers, thinking of keeping the red calipers colour.

I should get pricing on Monday as I've asked for a rear disc to be made to match the look of the front.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: flashp on February 14, 2015, 02:14:54 pm
CP5575's are current models. They were developed for a type of wheel used on an M3, BG had lots to do with that I believe as they work directly with AP. I'm not sure but if you went to Demon Tweeks or a retailer like that you may not even have them available. Who's providing these for you? If you ring AP directly they'll give you a price for the kit but you'll have to buy through an outlet for them such as BG. AP technical know BG (David Fuller is a key contact for them) and have worked closely with them. Buying through them will give you access to first class tech support.

Rears to match with an AP rotor and bell will probably cost you around £800 at a guess, maybe more. I toyed with the idea but a standard S3 setup with the right pads and fluid is more than up to the job. I use mine on track but if I didn't I'd say this spec is way over the top. I have currently an S3 f/r setup and it is/was fine for the road. Never had any issues at all.







Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: flashp on February 14, 2015, 02:20:14 pm
Awesome I'm after some too what's the price on these dude??

Give BG a ring and get quoted, you may not be wanting exactly the same as me but it'll be in the region of £2300.
Here's the spec for the kit as published by AP. Note the use of 32mm discs on this kit.

http://www.apracing.com/product_details/road_car_upgrades/factory_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5_r32-front_6_piston_kit_cp5575m1011-2005_on.aspx (http://www.apracing.com/product_details/road_car_upgrades/factory_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5_r32-front_6_piston_kit_cp5575m1011-2005_on.aspx)
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 17, 2015, 05:41:40 pm

I've made my choice... AP Racing CP5555 6 pots... Thanks for allowing me to bounce ideas of you guys!
I have mine on order with BG Developments, I went for a variation on this with this kit as they have smaller bodied 'skinnier' calipers which help my wheel clearance.
From the AP site you can download a correctly scaled profile template that you cut out, stick to cardboard and can accurately check clearance.

Mine uses the CP5575 caliper. http://www.apracing.com/product_details/road_car_upgrades/factory_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5_r32-front_6_piston_kit_cp5575m1011-2005_on.aspx (http://www.apracing.com/product_details/road_car_upgrades/factory_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5_r32-front_6_piston_kit_cp5575m1011-2005_on.aspx)

It looks like this:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi326.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk438%2Fflashp%2Fapcaliper_zps26ea8c1c.jpg&hash=a257944fbfb62259798d539a9c2b3c4ca4aad318)

It also uses strap drive discs which gives you a floating disc without rattling bobbins or springs which need to kept clean. Best of both a floating disc and rigid bolted system in one and a 32mm thick disc.



Useful links:
http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk/ (http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk/)
http://blog.stillen.com/2010/01/technology-spotlight-ap-racing-strap-drive-brake-rotors/ (http://blog.stillen.com/2010/01/technology-spotlight-ap-racing-strap-drive-brake-rotors/)

Pagid themselves recommended a new RST3 pad compound for the front (BG can supply this with the kit instead of the default AP404's for an extra £45) and an 'S' series pad for the r32 rears I have. The rear setup should be adequate.
Both of these are fine for both road and track day use.

I've been speaking with AP and also BG and turns out the 5555 won't fit under my wheel - reyland seem happy to sell me any kit...

What alloys are you on with the 5575 kit?
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: rich83 on February 17, 2015, 07:48:10 pm
Cant you use a spacer?
Title: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: Cossie Killer on February 17, 2015, 07:59:38 pm
Did you tell him the wheels etc? That doesn't sound like Martin at all..... I forwarded him this link.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 17, 2015, 09:04:49 pm

Cant you use a spacer?

I'm not sure, short of buying the kit and playing around with it I don't know. I'm really relying on the 'experts' knowledge for guidance.
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: rich83 on February 17, 2015, 09:07:08 pm
what wheels?
Title: Re: BBK Opinion (VWR / B7 RS4)
Post by: bluo on February 17, 2015, 09:08:38 pm

Did you tell him the wheels etc? That doesn't sound like Martin at all..... I forwarded him this link.

Everything was mentioned... Martin's been really busy and great on the phone however his workload at the moment has seemed to get him off the phone as quick as possible - that's left me feeling a little unconfident in the kit I'm trying to purchase, hence my discussions with AP and BG who said the 5555 won't fit under the 18" wheel and to rather go for the 5575 kit.

I'll call him tomorrow and have a chat as he sent me some prices I want to go through with him.