MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: noszex on November 27, 2009, 07:12:34 am

Title: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: noszex on November 27, 2009, 07:12:34 am
hi,

my pirelli seem to misfire always on s mode only. i have read quite a few thread and would like to how do i solve this problem.

is the valve spring that is wrong for the vehicle or the tuning map not suitable?

anyone can advise?
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: tony_danza on November 27, 2009, 09:57:50 am
Firstly - scan it with VAGCOM and see what the fault log says, otherwise you'll end up chasing your tail.

It could be anything, I'd put my money on a coilpack being on its way out.
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: SteveP on November 27, 2009, 11:16:12 am
Like Tony D says without the scan your pissing in the wind.

Also be helpful to know the what hardware mods and software your running.  :happy2:
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: Rich on November 27, 2009, 11:18:53 am
Are you having misfires when your floor it ???

i.e over 5,000 revs ?


I've had no problems with my Pirelli remap from REVO for 2 months now...

I think Carl at REVO HQ had to mess around with it at first, but its silky smooth and perfect now happy2


I know the Pirelli map is different to the ED30 remap... so im guessing this what it might be...

If i was you, id get it remap at REVO HQ with Carl
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: noszex on November 27, 2009, 03:45:00 pm
vagcom  say misfire cylinder 3. had this always on 3, car is 2mth old 4200km.

coilpack swop and plug change new still same issue. it should not be coilpack or plug issue, i had a friend who is in giac tune with same issue misfire at WOT trottle high RPM.

so i wonder if its the tuning that is the problem, stock nv had misfire before.

i did read on some thread saying the valve spring is wrong ?
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: KRL on November 27, 2009, 04:25:09 pm
Takes some logs with VCDS of these engine blocks as a starting point:
 
Misfire-Specific DIAGNOSIS
Item #   Vag-Com Block #   Description
1   001-1   Engine Speed
2   054-3   Accelerator Pedal Position
3   054-4   Throttle Plate Angle
4   101-3   Injection Timing (Median)
5   115-3   Boost Pressure (Specified)
6   115-4   Boost Pressure (Actual)
7   003-2   Intake Air Mass
8   230-2   Rail Pressure - Actual
9   015-1   Misfire Cyl 1
10   015-2   Misfire Cyl 2
11   015-3   Misfire Cyl 3
12   016-1   Misfire Cyl 4
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: noszex on November 27, 2009, 04:28:53 pm
done the data log with the misfire flashing with the giac dealer, waiting for the usa giac to respond.

so isit the map issue or there is something wrong with 08 car?
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: berttie21 on November 27, 2009, 04:48:28 pm
Hi there,

My Pirelli 58 plate did the same with a Revo S1, It was recored as a misfire but i don't actually think it did, just cam near it so the sensor used to throw the light on.

I had my code renewed with the latest Revo Pirelli edition software (apparently they have a sightly different rail to the Ed30 engines) and the problem has totally gone.

Mine only used to misbehave at the redline?

Cheers

Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: Rich on November 27, 2009, 05:41:15 pm
Hi there,

My Pirelli 58 plate did the same with a Revo S1, It was recored as a misfire but i don't actually think it did, just cam near it so the sensor used to throw the light on.

I had my code renewed with the latest Revo Pirelli edition software (apparently they have a sightly different rail to the Ed30 engines) and the problem has totally gone.

Mine only used to misbehave at the redline?

Cheers



Nos i guarentee you its the software 100%

Before i bought my pirelli 58 plate, i managed to speak with the previous owner... he said he had REVO remap and it was misfiring all the time when he floored it.. so he took it off...

BUT - REVO have solved this problem, they've bought out a REVO Pirelli remap ( which i got at HQ Revo in Northamtonshire by Carl ) which solves ALL the misfire issues.

I'm 100% positive this is your problem :happy2:
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: candy turbo on November 27, 2009, 05:52:26 pm
i ve never read a bad word on here about CUSTOM CODE  (just my 2 p worth )
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: Hurdy on November 27, 2009, 07:10:31 pm
Takes some logs with VCDS of these engine blocks as a starting point:
 
Misfire-Specific DIAGNOSIS
Item #   Vag-Com Block #   Description
1   001-1   Engine Speed
2   054-3   Accelerator Pedal Position
3   054-4   Throttle Plate Angle
4   101-3   Injection Timing (Median)
5   115-3   Boost Pressure (Specified)
6   115-4   Boost Pressure (Actual)
7   003-2   Intake Air Mass
8   230-2   Rail Pressure - Actual
9   015-1   Misfire Cyl 1
10   015-2   Misfire Cyl 2
11   015-3   Misfire Cyl 3
12   016-1   Misfire Cyl 4

Thanks for that KRL :happy2:

I'd been wondering about the misfire blocks
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: Hurdy on November 27, 2009, 07:12:58 pm
i ve never read a bad word on here about CUSTOM CODE  (just my 2 p worth )

I used to have Custom-Code software on mine.

I still rate it, but it just didn't give me the aggressiveness that I was after, or the flexibility that the REVO SPS+ controller gives.
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: wigit on November 27, 2009, 09:01:22 pm
nosex, revo borrowed my pirelli for a week to log and tweak the map, it was constantly misfiring at 6,500rpm, its now done 6,000 miles mapped and no issues

the misfire has also affected some Leon's and S3s

my car is going back into revo after its first service (which is due soon) to try the original map soon

it would appear you can't assume a Ed30 map runs on a Pirelli
 
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: Hedge on November 27, 2009, 09:16:03 pm
To the OP what fuel are you using?

Cylinder 3 is the normal weakspot as it is either the longest or shortest intake path.
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: noszex on November 28, 2009, 12:36:05 am
i have heard APR tuning map to suit pirelli to so that misfire has disappear . still waitin for the GIAC.

using caltex 98. i am not from UK.

for revo stage 1, no hardware needed
stage2 TBE + intake
stage2+ HPFP

is the above correct?
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: Top Cat on November 28, 2009, 07:43:50 pm
i have heard APR tuning map to suit pirelli to so that misfire has disappear . still waitin for the GIAC.

using caltex 98. i am not from UK.

for revo stage 1, no hardware needed
stage2 TBE + intake
stage2+ HPFP

is the above correct?

Near enough for the Revo stages, only thing is the intake is not required for stage 2 but is advised on stage 3, for full benefit.  :happy2:
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: wigit on November 29, 2009, 09:33:44 am
noszex i'll scan the dyno plot form ours later today which shows the profile after 5,500rpm  :happy2:
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: noszex on November 29, 2009, 12:40:29 pm
so does anyone on giac and have solve this issue?
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: vRStu on November 29, 2009, 07:55:27 pm
There is a mechanical reason why the Misfire occurs and as correctly mentioned above, REVO have a modified map available to owners with a Misfire issue.
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: john_o on November 29, 2009, 09:21:21 pm
are you able to eloborate on that stu?
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: vRStu on November 29, 2009, 09:23:30 pm
Sort of John.

There is a TSB out in the dealer network which details an issue with incorrect valve springs.  Trouble is it'll be difficult to prove an issue without having performance software installed.
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: john_o on November 29, 2009, 09:30:09 pm
thanks , I ask as I wanted to update the Edition 30 FAQ on here , as I have stated remaps crossover to Pirelli variants easily lol!
is this the same issue that is sorted by adding downpipes to later Edition 30/S3 cars ?

in terms of valve springs how do REVO workaround a physical issue with software?
Ive only ever know of valve bounce with incorrect springs, does it just cause a brief harmonic which effects the valve opening = weak mixture = misfire??
just interested to learn
cheers
John
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: wigit on November 29, 2009, 10:59:59 pm
Sort of John.

There is a TSB out in the dealer network which details an issue with incorrect valve springs.  Trouble is it'll be difficult to prove an issue without having performance software installed.

useful information when it goes in for its first service  :happy2:

i'm sure Revo aren't going to give away there secrets, this is the dyno plot from mine which shows the power drop off after 5,500 when they revised the map.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fwigit71%2Ftfotfn%2Fdyno0001.jpg&hash=6bb443df00d7b255027efce9608e53ecc8ee45ac)
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: john_o on November 29, 2009, 11:10:46 pm
is that DSG wigit?
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: wigit on November 29, 2009, 11:13:09 pm
manual
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: noszex on November 30, 2009, 11:13:35 am
giac dealer from aus is saying that its the Valve spring issue.

anyone can confirm on this that VW has actually not put the correct ones.
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: john_o on November 30, 2009, 12:18:32 pm
Im trying to find a bit more info on this for the FAQ

so far I have some more info from the greek forums!

"painted yellow / white are soft springs causing the issue
Painted blue / yellow springs correct.
These springs are all equally responsible for S3, TFSI 200cv Leon, Leon Cupra, Golf MK5 GTI, etc."

"TSB 2019062/1 Symptoms are misfiring between 6000-6500 RPM's under heavy load accompanied by power surging."

and this very interesting post :

 theory about why the valve spring issue occurs (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=el&tl=en&u=http://seatclub.gr/forum/index.php%3FPHPSESSID%3D8fa8a51b47c39a1c5178c52df956bbcf%26topic%3D20483.msg691927&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhi-0t-xLwmE7jsTkuUvN1fIm99JYg#msg691927)

also note there appears to be a factor of correlation also with camshaft duration and exhaust flow.

best I can do for now  :happy2:
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: noszex on November 30, 2009, 02:28:47 pm
so do we wait for vw or we can sent to change it. and where can we get the right valve spring.
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: john_o on November 30, 2009, 02:38:06 pm
from what i know just now :

you either need to change the springs at your own cost  (because using a normal map the issue isnt apparent, so VW arent going to be interested)
OR
use a remap that acknowledges and works around the issue.

first issue would be to DEFINITELY confirm any misfire is due to this factor......
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: paolo on April 26, 2010, 10:45:53 am
BUMP!
hey guys new owner with a Pirelli suffering from this misfire. I am currently running the GIAC extreme flash with supporting mods:
- 3inch 200cel custom downpipe
- Arqray catback
- Autotech fuel pump
- VF k04 intake
- RS4 fuel rail pressure valve
- BSH intercooler
- wayne angle block
- GIAC extreme flash
- BFI TAI
So i get this issue at full throttle and at or close to redline and its always the same code: misfire in cylinder 3. I am pretty sure it is the valve springs since i have replaced my downpipe and have the wayne angle block already which should take that CEL away. Just wondering how long/difficult is a job to replace these springs?
thanks!
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: Rich on April 26, 2010, 11:43:58 am
Hi,

Its the map i guarantee you...

The previous owner who had my Pirelli said he had it remapped.. but it kept mis firing higher rev range... so he took it off...

All i did was went to REVO HQ.. Carl messed around with it a bit.. and bingo... i've never had a misfire  :happy2:




Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: paolo on April 26, 2010, 11:49:28 am
Hi,

Its the map i guarantee you...

The previous owner who had my Pirelli said he had it remapped.. but it kept mis firing higher rev range... so he took it off...

All i did was went to REVO HQ.. Carl messed around with it a bit.. and bingo... i've never had a misfire  :happy2:

another member, who i keep in contact with, has all my mods i have and used to get the misfires just with the stage one tune but ever since going extreme he hasnt gotten it so i am pretty sure its the springs. I have read that REVO and APR have found a way to work around the valve spring issue but i do not plan to go with those companies...
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: Poverty on April 26, 2010, 06:21:41 pm
There is a mechanical reason why the Misfire occurs and as correctly mentioned above, REVO have a modified map available to owners with a Misfire issue.

Only on stage 1 though
Title: Re: pirelli misfire issue
Post by: paolo on April 26, 2010, 11:16:42 pm
not sure if its just on stage 1 but i have heard that whilst REVO and APR have worked around the issue by just reducing the boost limit before the 6000-6500 mark, it does not solve the issue of the valve springs. Just talked to my mechanic so he's going to see if he can get some VW service people to talk to otherwise he'll be the one to do the job

PS cant seem to reply to PMs but to danishmkvgti, my mechanic put the RS4 valve in to compensate for the higher boost requirements of the GIAC extreme flash. It gave a few kw's as well, since getting dynod, my k04 is pushing the most power out of all the other k04s including S3s , TTSs and GTIs with k04 conversions in Australia