MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Technical Workshop => Topic started by: rdfcpete on December 04, 2009, 08:17:47 pm
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I've got a 2006 GTI and I'm looking for a drop of more than 25-30mm. Anything more and I won't be able to get my trolley jack under even removing the splitter :scared:
I won't be running anything bigger wheel wise than 225/40/18, 8.0J width (currently on 17 Monzas). Rest of the car is standard.
I'm not looking for significant performance improvements either. It drives fine for my requirements currently, so just a lower stance is all I need to achieve here :happy2:
I want to keep the ride as soft as poss, I.E. no harder than it is now but would like a slight drop to close the gap in the arches.
What are my options guys - Would a new set of springs suffice or even clip the ones down I'm on now?
Cheers,
Pete.
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Sounds like you just need springs, a 30 or 40 mil drop would be perfect. If you go 20mil then you would hardly notice it me thinks. :smiley:
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Suggest eibach Pro kit... for a greater drop and lower stance u could go for the eibach SportLines, but they do make the ride a lot more firmer.
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Mo', is the ride on the Pro Kit as soft as the OEM suspension?
I won't be tracking it and it'll be on Audi S-Line 18"s soon so I don't want it to be firm :ashamed: :wink:
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the best compromise imo opinion would be the eibach springs and koni FSDs. these give a comfier ride than stock, but are very well damped. (ive never had them on mine but have driven a good few with them on now)
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Suggest eibach Pro kit... for a greater drop and lower stance u could go for the eibach SportLines, but they do make the ride a lot more firmer.
Are you speaking from experience here, or is this something you've heard/been told? I'm only asking as I'd quite like to fit sportlines as everyone seems to think they ride the same as standard, but I'm thinking what you've said would be more accurate.
Thanks
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eibach sportlines and pro kit DO NOT ride like standard OEM springs.
The ride is more firm...without being uncomfortable.
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the best compromise imo opinion would be the eibach springs and koni FSDs. these give a comfier ride than stock, but are very well damped. (ive never had them on mine but have driven a good few with them on now)
I just looked at the price of FSD's and they're way out of my suspension budget, with Springs as well - good shout though. Ta :smiley:
eibach sportlines and pro kit DO NOT ride like standard OEM springs.
The ride is more firm...without being uncomfortable.
Are there any springs (Eibach or not...) that ride just as the OEM ones do Mo? In essence, this is what I want. I just want a lower stance without the performance implications?
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Bump if I may :jumpmove:
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the best compromise imo opinion would be the eibach springs and koni FSDs. these give a comfier ride than stock, but are very well damped. (ive never had them on mine but have driven a good few with them on now)
I just looked at the price of FSD's and they're way out of my suspension budget, with Springs as well - good shout though. Ta :smiley:
eibach sportlines and pro kit DO NOT ride like standard OEM springs.
The ride is more firm...without being uncomfortable.
Are there any springs (Eibach or not...) that ride just as the OEM ones do Mo? In essence, this is what I want. I just want a lower stance without the performance implications?
....I was going to suggest KoniFSD's + Eibach Pro-Kit until I read your budget limit. I had that setup, plus Eibach anti-roll bars, on mine.
Check out VWR lowering springs? I don't know their price.
http://www.racingline.com/ > Road Car Upgrades > VW > Mk5 > Suspension > Lowering Springs.
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Thanks RR.
The budget is indeed a restriction but as the car's usage doesn't demand a high performance setup, then the budget by default isn't large. I require an OEM ride that sits closer to the deck by about 35-40mm.
Thanks for the link, I'll have a look.
How do VWR springs ride?
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The VWR springs (just rebadged KW's) give very little drop on Mk5.
For a true 30-40 drop while maintaining a near OEM ride it has to be the H&R Springs for me :happy2:
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The VWR springs (just rebadged KW's) give very little drop on Mk5.
For a true 30-40 drop while maintaining a near OEM ride it has to be the H&R Springs for me :happy2:
What cost are you looking at fully fitted roughly steve? :happy2:
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^^^ On my Mk5 I paid around £200 for the H&R springs (can be found a bit cheaper on ebay.de) and £100 for fitting and alignment :happy2:
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The VWR springs (just rebadged KW's) give very little drop on Mk5.
For a true 30-40 drop while maintaining a near OEM ride it has to be the H&R Springs for me :happy2:
....Ahh, I didn't know what the VWR spring drop is but thought it was approaching 40 mm.
@ Pete: I have no idea about the VWR lowering spring ride either. From KoniFSD's I went their KW-V3 coilover route.
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^^^ On my Mk5 I paid around £200 for the H&R springs (can be found a bit cheaper on ebay.de) and £100 for fitting and alignment :happy2:
Thanks Steve. Thats not to bad. Ill have a look though your build thread for pics. :party:
Cheers :happy2:
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The VWR springs (just rebadged KW's) give very little drop on Mk5.
For a true 30-40 drop while maintaining a near OEM ride it has to be the H&R Springs for me :happy2:
....Ahh, I didn't know what the VWR spring drop is but thought it was approaching 40 mm.
@ Pete: I have no idea about the VWR lowering spring ride either. From KoniFSD's I went their KW-V3 coilover route.
Yep the Mk5 ones are just the plain 20mm springs, so basically like your old Eibach pro's :happy2:
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The VWR springs (just rebadged KW's) give very little drop on Mk5.
....At the risk of appearing pedantic, yes the VWR springs and other suspension components are made by KW but mostly to a specification developed between themselves and KW Germany with whom they have a Technical Partnership. KW also being an official VW Cup sponsor. So, a little more than "just". At least, that's my understanding.
:happy2:
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Here is my old girl on the H&R's
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2FIMG_0094.jpg&hash=bb3895f456077c5efbe1ba9a937a9dd19e0a1602)
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^^^^
Then H&R clearly a great option :happy2:
Crikey! When you compare our sigs, Steve, my Mk5 looks so dated! I'll keep telling myself mine's a future classic.
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The VWR springs (just rebadged KW's) give very little drop on Mk5.
....At the risk of appearing pedantic, yes the VWR springs and other suspension components are made by KW but mostly to a specification developed between themselves and KW Germany with whom they have a Technical Partnership. KW also being an official VW Cup sponsor. So, a little more than "just". At least, that's my understanding.
:happy2:
Robin, I understand that is the case with some of their products but a lot (including the standard lowering springs and the ARB's for example) are just off the shelf KW stuff :happy2:
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The VWR springs (just rebadged KW's) give very little drop on Mk5.
....At the risk of appearing pedantic, yes the VWR springs and other suspension components are made by KW but mostly to a specification developed between themselves and KW Germany with whom they have a Technical Partnership. KW also being an official VW Cup sponsor. So, a little more than "just". At least, that's my understanding.
:happy2:
Robin, I understand that is the case with some of their products but a lot (including the standard lowering springs and the ARB's for example) are just off the shelf KW stuff :happy2:
....We're saying more or less the same thing, mate: I'm saying "mostly" and you're saying "some".
:drinking:
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Here is my old girl on the H&R's
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2FIMG_0094.jpg&hash=bb3895f456077c5efbe1ba9a937a9dd19e0a1602)
Thats spot on Steve. I said I wouldnt be spending anymore money on the car for a while, here I come ebay. :laugh: :happy2:
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Robin the only difference between the VWR branded stuff is the colour. If you think about it what else could they offer. I cant imagine KW adding some magical dust to VWR stuff.
I have been there on 2 occasion's were Mat and your pal who is no longer there, just rang up KW and asked can you send us the correct springs and shocks for this particular car. KW boffins just look down there list and select the blue version for them. :happy2:
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Robin the only difference between the VWR branded stuff is the colour. If you think about it what else could they offer. I cant imagine KW adding some magical dust to VWR stuff.
I have been there on 2 occasion's were Mat and your pal who is no longer there, just rang up KW and asked can you send us the correct springs and shocks for this particular car. KW boffins just look down there list and select the blue version for them. :happy2:
....Different spring ratings? Different combinations than available off the shelf in the UK?
Whatever.. Their suspension works well for me.
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The VWR springs (just rebadged KW's) give very little drop on Mk5.
For a true 30-40 drop while maintaining a near OEM ride it has to be the H&R Springs for me :happy2:
X2 H&R for me to, superb comfort :happy2:
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Robin the only difference between the VWR branded stuff is the colour.
....That's not how it's been sold to me. In which case it sounds as if VWR are being naughty and I will want some clarification from them.
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Robin the only difference between the VWR branded stuff is the colour.
....That's not how it's been sold to me. In which case it sounds as if VWR are being naughty and I will want some clarification from them.
Well of course they will sell different spring ratings, if applicable to the usage. But why would they sell a set of say for instance a KW V3 with a different spring rating than what KW had spent lots of time and money developing. Yes they order springs with a custom rating for there track cars, and customers like Jonny who know that by having stiffer springs they can get a certain ride height without rubbing, but in general if you order V3's then you would get V3's but in blue. Take a look at Poko's build thread on here, the chap from Israel.
My clubsports came in blue, but i am 100% certain that there is no difference with them form any other clubsport's sold. :happy2:
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The VWR springs (just rebadged KW's) give very little drop on Mk5.
....At the risk of appearing pedantic, yes the VWR springs and other suspension components are made by KW but mostly to a specification developed between themselves and KW Germany with whom they have a Technical Partnership. KW also being an official VW Cup sponsor. So, a little more than "just". At least, that's my understanding.
:happy2:
Robin, I understand that is the case with some of their products but a lot (including the standard lowering springs and the ARB's for example) are just off the shelf KW stuff :happy2:
if your correct on the arb's then that is a £250 premium for some vwr blue paint...
will be popping down the paint shop when I come to sell my kw arb's :innocent:
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Robin the only difference between the VWR branded stuff is the colour.
....That's not how it's been sold to me. In which case it sounds as if VWR are being naughty and I will want some clarification from them.
It would seem that VWR are still up to their old tricks. I'm genuinely disapointed, especially after that very long 'heart to heart' chat I had with Sam . . . .
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Came across these and ideally want a 20mm drop instead, but on these springs:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/H-R-Lowering-Springs-Golf-Mk5-GTi-GT-30mm-Lowering_W0QQitemZ220564549092QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item335aabede4
Will they feel like the OEM ride? I don't want to go harder if I can avoid it, its really only for the cosmetics :smiley:
Cheers.
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Can anyone confirm that VWR Springs = KW Springs.
Does anyone have any evidence for example the part numbers on the VWR box etc? The reason I ask is because...
VWR Sport Springs (20mm) (http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/Golf%205%20Pages/Golf%20Suspension%20Sports%20Springs.html) = £200 + delivery
KW Sports Lowering Springs (20mm) (http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=3871882) = £149 + delivery
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^^^^
AFAIK, VWR springs = KW springs. VWR have a technical partnership with KW Germany. Whether the springs have exactly the same ratings etc I'm not sure of.
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Forgive me for sounding pessimistic, but re-branding happens a huge amount in automotive parts so I would not be surprised if they are the exactly the same thing.
But if anyone still has proof for example the box they arrived in having a completly different KW part number then fair game.
I am simply trying to support the extra £50 investment.
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^^^^
I no longer have my box but was told by VWR that my spring ratings were different from KW's off the shelf.
All I know is that they work bloody well! And that VWR will always look after any problem I have with them and they set up my suspension perfectly for my needs.
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I'm still looking for some springs that will ride no harder or stiffer than the OEM springs. There are simply too many speed bumps and potholes in my local area for anything harder, the ride would not be enjoyable if it was tighter.
Whats the set for me, the softest aftermarket springs available if you like?
Cheers.
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It is dampers, not springs which determine the 'ride hardness'.
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Welcome back Sean :smiley:
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It is dampers, not springs which determine the 'ride hardness'.
I'll bear this in mind.
Looks like Koni FSD's are the way forward with some nice springs.
Thanks Sean :happy2:
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It is dampers, not springs which determine the 'ride hardness'.
I'll bear this in mind.
Looks like Koni FSD's are the way forward with some nice springs.
Thanks Sean :happy2:
Be careful - RedRobin had problems with Koni FSDs - he had to take them off in the end.
Whilst the Konis are much cheaper, if the budget can stretch - you might be better going for a setup with adjustable dampers. Bilsteins or KW both do such kits - but then both are £££££ more than Konis.
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That's right, I had some of the first Koni FSD's for the Golf in the UK and they leaked after about 55k miles. Koni, via Awesome, gave me my money back and I spent a whole lot more on KW-V3's which I'm very happy with. Bilstein would be my other choice.
I'm told that my version of the FSD's were later revised.
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Okay Sean, I'll check with each of you before purchasing to ensure I don't buy a model with any defects - Thanks.
I can't find any 20mm H&R springs that state they're suitable for the GTI, only MKV R32 springs (which presumably would suit the Haldex setup only?).
I found the 30mm set below. Are these actually 30mm in reality or will they sit slightly higher? I don't want to go any lower than 20mm for a range of practical reasons.
http://www.dpmperformance.co.uk/hr-30mm-lowering-suspension-springsbr-golf-5-gti-20t-fsi-1004-p-679.html?zenid=5b68c9b3965823f2d135194483b2185e
- Any purchase pointers are much appreciated.
Many thanks :happy2:
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^^^^
That's right, I had some of the first Koni FSD's for the Golf in the UK and they leaked after about 55k miles. Koni, via Awesome, gave me my money back and I spent a whole lot more on KW-V3's which I'm very happy with. Bilstein would be my other choice.
I'm told that my version of the FSD's were later revised.
IIRC, your Konis were rated for the extra weight of the diesel donkey. The lighter GTI petrol engine caused your Konis to 'top-out', which blew the top valves.
Didn't you advise that Koni have subsequently released some FSDs for the specific weight range for the petrol GTI?
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I can't find any 20mm H&R springs that state they're suitable for the GTI, only MKV R32 springs (which presumably would suit the Haldex setup only?).
I found the 30mm set below. Are these actually 30mm in reality or will they sit slightly higher? I don't want to go any lower than 20mm for a range of practical reasons.
http://www.dpmperformance.co.uk/hr-30mm-lowering-suspension-springsbr-golf-5-gti-20t-fsi-1004-p-679.html?zenid=5b68c9b3965823f2d135194483b2185e
- Any purchase pointers are much appreciated.
Many thanks :happy2:
GTI and R32 will use the same springs for the same axle weight loadings. The R32 merely uses a slightly shorter bump-stop (too generate the lower ride height compared to the GTI). And there is not any unique 4wd or Haldex specific suspension components (OK, yes, I know the rear hubs are different, along with a few minor tweaks).
And I personally arn't really an expert in aftermarket suspensions. But if you are particularly critical about ride heights, then I might suggest that full-on adjustable coilovers might be a more appropriate answer - though not cheap.
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^^^^
That's right, I had some of the first Koni FSD's for the Golf in the UK and they leaked after about 55k miles. Koni, via Awesome, gave me my money back and I spent a whole lot more on KW-V3's which I'm very happy with. Bilstein would be my other choice.
I'm told that my version of the FSD's were later revised.
IIRC, your Konis were rated for the extra weight of the diesel donkey. The lighter GTI petrol engine caused your Konis to 'top-out', which blew the top valves.
Didn't you advise that Koni have subsequently released some FSDs for the specific weight range for the petrol GTI?
....Just to confuse matters further, it was the Eibach springs which bore the mark of the diseased donkey on the box. I questioned it with both supplier Awesome and Eibach at the time but was reassured all was okay.
[Great to see you again yesterday] :happy2:
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Hi pete, it doesn't matter which springs you fit, the ride will get firmer. From previous experiance the eibachs felt nice when first fitted although a few weeks after settling in the firmed right up and wernt really the most comfortable. I hear the h&rs are pretty good and probably your best option if you want cheap comfort !
If you are going down, you will be going down on ride quality too, it is worth it IMO though as it's been done too my last few cars wheather its been springs, springs and dampers or coilovers.
Some people are saying go with the koni fsd set up, I'm not 100% sure what konis lowering range is on those shocks but going down 30-40 mm on them will probably be harsher than 20 on eibach springs.
If you are really worried about ride quality try and get a local member to take you for a spin in a lowered car and make a judgement of what you deem acceblable then reasses your situation. I would take you a run in mine but I'm sure there is a few miles between us .
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^^^^
That's right, I had some of the first Koni FSD's for the Golf in the UK and they leaked after about 55k miles. Koni, via Awesome, gave me my money back and I spent a whole lot more on KW-V3's which I'm very happy with. Bilstein would be my other choice.
I'm told that my version of the FSD's were later revised.
IIRC, your Konis were rated for the extra weight of the diesel donkey. The lighter GTI petrol engine caused your Konis to 'top-out', which blew the top valves.
Didn't you advise that Koni have subsequently released some FSDs for the specific weight range for the petrol GTI?
....Just to confuse matters further, it was the Eibach springs which bore the mark of the diseased donkey on the box.
Now you've confused me! :confused: I thought the FSDs were a complete suspension leg - ie spring and damper. Or are the FSDs just a damper, and you need to use a 'separate' spring (either OEM or aftermarket)?
I questioned it with both supplier Awesome and Eibach at the time but was reassured all was okay.
Hmmmm . . . IIRC, we discussed this in detail a while back. The crucial point, in general about suspension 'upgrades', and very specifically in your own case - is that springs are designed to work over a quite a tight and restrictive weight range. So a poverty spec Mk5 Golf, with say a lightweight all-alloy 1.2TSI engine, no aircon, 5speed manual box, lightish 52Ah battery, etc - will have a spring from say weight range 'A' (maybe 400kg). Whereas the same car but with a heavy all-iron diesel engine, heavy(er) 6speed DSG, power take off (on the gearbox) for the rear haldex, air con, heavy 75Ah battery, etc - would need a spring 'Z' (maybe 650kg) to achieve the same ride height.
And when you first raised the issue (I think you said you had some work at VWR, and they said they didn't feel right) - we discovered your FSDs were for the TDI (I don't think they'd released a GTI spec FSD) - I advised you to discuss with all your various suppliers (Awesome, VWR, etc). VWR basically agreed with me on the importance of the correct weight range - but now, and forgive me if I've got the wrong impression - but I feel that Awesome are basically 'burying their heads in the sand'. Yes, they gave you a refund - but it seems the refund was based on a 'faulty' product (thereby passing the buck onto Koni), rather than the refund being based on a product 'not fit for purpose' (which is 100% Awesomes responsibility).
I may be a little piccky <sp?> and pedantic on this issue - but I think it's quite an important point. I certainly don't wish to blame Koni for a failing product - even when products are correctly specified, from whoever the manufacturer - they will all wear out eventually. But if a trader has tried to pass the buck for their own c0ck ups - then we really need to know. And I'm not trying to beat up on Awesome either.
[Great to see you again yesterday] :happy2:
Likewise. :drinking: I bet you thought I must have sh@t the bed - me being there so early! :evilgrin:
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^^^^
No, you use a separate spring with the KoniFSD damper and it has to be an approved one. This may have changed in recent years - I don't know - But certainly was the case in 2005/2006.
Sorry but I have absolutely no recollection of being supplied anything other than a Mk5 GTI, not TDI, KoniFSD set of dampers. I may still have the box. The Eibach springs were deff TDI labelled on the box - I have a photo somewhere.
I have to say that I too have questioned Awesome's advice re my FSD setup - It worries me that their sales staff have targets AFAIK (hopefully they'll post to correct me if I'm wrong). However, I did accept their advice and have no doubt it was given in good faith at the time. For whatever reason, Awesome did go beyond the call of duty in helping me with my subsequent FSD problem.
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^^^^
No, you use a separate spring with the KoniFSD damper and it has to be an approved one. This may have changed in recent years - I don't know - But certainly was the case in 2005/2006.
OK, thanks for clarifying. :happy2:
Sorry but I have absolutely no recollection of being supplied anything other than a Mk5 GTI, not TDI, KoniFSD set of dampers. I may still have the box. The Eibach springs were deff TDI labelled on the box - I have a photo somewhere.
Ahhhhhh - I knew TDI was mentioned somewhere - sorry for confusing it with the FSDs! :ashamed:
I have to say that I too have questioned Awesome's advice re my FSD setup - It worries me that their sales staff have targets AFAIK (hopefully they'll post to correct me if I'm wrong). However, I did accept their advice and have no doubt it was given in good faith at the time. For whatever reason, Awesome did go beyond the call of duty in helping me with my subsequent FSD problem.
But the issue is:- did Awesome supply both the FSDs and the Eibach springs at the same time - knowing they were going on a GTI? If so - then that is just plain wrong. Whilst I appreciate your 'open' attitude towards accepting Awesomes response as 'good faith' - others may not be inclined to be as tollerant. UK consumer law is very clear in this respect - with a very specific section on 'goods must be fit for purpose'. No competent motor vehicle engineer/teccy/mech would agree that it was acceptable to sell a heavyweight TDI spring for a lighter GTI. And just like ignorance of the law is no defence for complying with said law - the same ethos is applicable to traders, in that unless they are 100% a product is fully suitable (fit for purpose), they shouldn't be selling it.
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I have to say that I too have questioned Awesome's advice re my FSD setup - It worries me that their sales staff have targets AFAIK (hopefully they'll post to correct me if I'm wrong). However, I did accept their advice and have no doubt it was given in good faith at the time. For whatever reason, Awesome did go beyond the call of duty in helping me with my subsequent FSD problem.
But the issue is:- did Awesome supply both the FSDs and the Eibach springs at the same time - knowing they were going on a GTI? If so - then that is just plain wrong. Whilst I appreciate your 'open' attitude towards accepting Awesomes response as 'good faith' - others may not be inclined to be as tollerant. UK consumer law is very clear in this respect - with a very specific section on 'goods must be fit for purpose'. No competent motor vehicle engineer/teccy/mech would agree that it was acceptable to sell a heavyweight TDI spring for a lighter GTI. And just like ignorance of the law is no defence for complying with said law - the same ethos is applicable to traders, in that unless they are 100% a product is fully suitable (fit for purpose), they shouldn't be selling it.
....Yes they did supply both at the same time and they also knew it was going on my Mk5 GTI. Whether they were right or wrong or acted in good faith is now ancient history. Ultimately they gave me a full refund of what I originally paid for them several years earlier and I didn't have to twist their arm either. I have no complaint but obviously know more about such things than I did 5 years ago and am more careful and wouldn't accept them nowadays. For what it's worth, a friend had exactly the same package a month before I did and experienced no FSD failures though he now runs coilovers on his Mk5 GTI.
For those who want an improved ride but aren't bothered about the low slung look, I would still recommend KoniFSD's plus recommended springs plus, importantly, anti-roll bars.