MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Janner_Sy on December 10, 2009, 04:31:37 pm
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right we all know what output RRs GTI puts out now. But what will his new output be with the twintake.
Ive found a few printouts of hsi current setup compliments of JKM.
240bhp, 290Ibft
242Bhp, 295Ibft
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/Misc/Gallery/rollingroaddays/Golf%20GTi%20RR%20Day%20March%2009/Dyno%20Charts/RED.gif
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/Misc/Gallery/rollingroaddays/MK5%20GTI%2018%2003%2009/Dyno%20Graphs/RED.gif
I reckon 257bhp 305Ibft
anyone else
winner gets yesterday off :wink:
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Seeing that his ecu will have to adapt, I think the numbers on the RR just after install are likely to be misleading.
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i reckon 1bhp gain :chicken:
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Seeing that his ecu will have to adapt, I think the numbers on the RR just after install are likely to be misleading.
Oh yeah - the old battery failed ECU re-adaptation so isn't running 100% gag eh? Holy conspiracy theory, Batman!!
Disclaimer: JOKE!
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I reckon 250 if hes lucky with that aestheticaly pleasing forge rubbish :signLOL:. What he needs is a foam heatshield to go with it.
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Seeing that his ecu will have to adapt, I think the numbers on the RR just after install are likely to be misleading.
Oh yeah - the old battery failed ECU re-adaptation so isn't running 100% gag eh? Holy conspiracy theory, Batman!!
Disclaimer: JOKE!
IMO I dont think adaption wil matter. JKM will be able to adjust his boost, fueling and timing manually. which shold have an immediate effect whereas another map would need to have a laptop plugged in and tweaked.
I reckon 250 if hes lucky with that aestheticaly pleasing forge rubbish . What he needs is a foam heatshield to go with it.
:grin: you specifically the one over the battery box. thats the most important one. 10bhp in that alone
http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/FREE/today.asp?zipcode=portsmouth
weathers spot on for dyno runs in portsmouth today, thats another excuse outnof the way.
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Im very interested as I am in the process of deciding whihc intake to go for at the moment. Will bewaching this thread with interest
Smudge
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bumped into robin as i was at jkm this avo having a few bits done - saw the twintake very nice :happy2:
i believe Robin had before and after dyno's done to compare his carbonio with the twintake and there was some healthy gains to be seen
will have to wait until the RR Review :drinking:
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what time was this. were still waiting lol.
my 257bhp 305Ibft still stands then.
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i could always phone him :grin:
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Seeing that his ecu will have to adapt, I think the numbers on the RR just after install are likely to be misleading.
I don't think this will be the case. JKM are pretty good at taking out cars for logging runs after work - I'm sure that it'll be taken for a blast to allow the settings to adapt (it really doesn't take as long people seem to think...) and log some data to ensure everything is running as well possible. I'd not be suprised if they look whether the Revo settings need changing too.
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i think his new bhp figure will be 254bhp and 310 Lb ft
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i think his new bhp figure will be 254bhp and 310 Lb ft
has someone just phoned him :signLOL: :signLOL:
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what time was this. were still waiting lol.
M27/A31 are a nightmare anywhere near rush hour. I used to have to do it everyday!
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i think his new bhp figure will be 254bhp and 310 Lb ft
has someone just phoned him :signLOL: :signLOL:
now would i do something as sneaky and underhand!!!
i almost did , but i didnt :grin:
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^^^^
And even if you had phoned me, 'Phil', I still wouldn't have told you.
I've just found this thread - Brilliant! :drinking:
JKM know what they're doing and always strive very hard indeed to be as realistic as possible when using the dyno. We all know it's always tricky but I think we've got a realistic before and after comparison.
I'm sure there'll be 'technical' questions which I'll have to refer back to JKM but I'll try my best.
I'm loving the 'foam' jokes :happy2:
Tomorrow morning, guys..
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im looking forward to this review :xmassmiley:
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Tomorrow morning, guys..
:indifferent: Come on then, lets be 'avin you. :party:
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cmon RR were all waiting ...
:indifferent: :indifferent: :indifferent: :indifferent: :indifferent: :indifferent: :indifferent: :indifferent:
suspense is killing me
:xmaspresent:
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^^^^
Right! Big apologies guys.. Have just got off the phone (again) to Forge and JKM.. We're doing another dyno session next Wednesday..
The increase in bhp which we saw on the dyno yesterday is good - very good - but.. with the filters the wrong way around!
How did this happen? - The pdf installation instruction which the Forge guy in America produced is ambiguous and JKM's Jim interpreted it wrongly as it turns out but rightly in that cone filters are usually orientated so that the suction end is the smaller circumference and the delivery end is the larger circumference. One of the pics in Forge's pdf appeared to confirm Jim's view and will now be changed and the instructions made clear regarding this point.
Forge expect a small further increase in the bhp and further improved curves when we correct the filter orientation. We shall see what happens on the day. I will include all the dyno plots in the review so that we can all share the differences.
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I hope your gonna give forge a right slagging if the instructions weren't up to scratch like you did with BSH :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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I hope your gonna give forge a right slagging if the instructions weren't up to scratch like you did with BSH :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
....Of course. I already have politely (as I normally do) made my opinion clear, they agree with me and are already taking steps to sort it.
Good companies, like Forge, take notice of customer feedback and then act as they think is in everyone's best interests. I hope you don't think I'm anti BSH - I'm just open in my criticisms and the rest is entirely up to them. People don't always agree with me anyway (and I can make mistakes too).
Cheers :happy2:
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So what were the gains??
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You'll have to wait until after Wednesday. To publish them with the filters back-to-front would be misleading - Too many folks will just read the neddy number and ignore the context. It would muddy the waters.
It would be quite amusing if there are more neddies when back-to-front! The cart before the horse?
I'll go as far as saying that I think the ITG intake has a real competitor, but none of these dyno tests can be truly conclusive unless ALL done on the same car on the same day.
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Well pm me the figures I'm intrigued.
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Well pm me the figures I'm intrigued.
....I'm sorry my friend, but all will be published next week.
Now I know why women like to tease! Mind you, if you were a woman the pressure on me just wouldn't let up! :grin:
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Great to talk to you again last night Robin :happy2:
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Great to talk to you again last night Robin :happy2:
....Anytime you have a very personal problem like that, please feel free to call again, 24/7 :evilgrin:
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SHOW ME THE NUMBERS!!!!! .....please lol im very interested in this robin as you may know why!
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"flat battery and JKM fit the twintake incorrectly......."
thats like a nightmare come true for you RR :signLOL:
what if it makes LESS power the right way round too :popcornsoda:
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fitted it the wrong way :scared: :scared: id like to say i never saw that coming.
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RR
This is intresting....
I never read instructions... but there is an embossed arrow at one end of the filter body which I assumed is flow direction.
How have you interpreted this?
....Jim at JKM interpreted it opposite to myself and, though I didn't know it at the time, Forge's designers, but according to conventional orientation. I bowed to Jim's experience.
I decided to check it with Forge later and hence the mistake was discovered.
I agree with Forge's intention that the small arrow indicates suction when pointing inwards and delivery when pointing outwards but you could argue (as Jim did) the other way. We all agree it's ambiguous and Forge are revising their instructions accordingly.
To those with wrongly orientated filters:
Don't worry, no harm will be done but soft brush household vacuum (not high pressure air gun!) the filter before reinstalling correctly.
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how did it sound on the dyno?
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I reckon it will lose performance :pomppomp: :grin:
176bhp/189 torques
We've all been conned :grin:
Dan :happy2:
<disclaimer - JOKE>
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how did it sound on the dyno?
....JKM's fan is so loud that it was difficult to hear. Driving, it's not as loud or raucous as an EVOMS. I wonder if it'll sound different after the filters are turned around - It will also place the velocity cap at the delivery end as intended instead of the suction end.
You'll get the chance to hear it in real life sooner or later.
JonnyC of course fitted his the correct way around - Canny fellow.
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I reckon it will lose performance :pomppomp: :grin:
176bhp/189 torques
We've all been conned :grin:
Dan :happy2:
<disclaimer - JOKE>
.... :signLOL:
Well you know, it IS possible that could be the case! It would then have everyone at Forge running around in circles.
By dyno-ing it again on Wednesday with 'wrong' orientation we'll establish a same day datum for any changes when the 'right' orientation is dyno'd immediately afterwards.
The logic, expectation, and word from Forge is that there should be a small bhp increase but also a further small improvement to the torque curve (which is good anyway as is). As JKM and myself are each independent and will tell it like it is, it will be an independent test.
Currently you might say that even in the worst case scenario with the filters 'cart-before-the-horse', the Twintake performs very well.
I think Keith will be back at JKM next week too :star:
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For the sake of the sweepstake :laugh: I'm going to inform that the Carbonio datum dyno test plotted 238.3 bhp / 270 ft lb.
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your before graph was 238.3bhp 270Ibft :surprised:. that seems quite low on power for a stage 2 even without an intake. are you running quite conservative settings on your map.
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your before graph was 238.3bhp 270Ibft :surprised:. that seems quite low on power. are you running quite conservative settings on your map.
be interested to see whatthe maf reading is though. Logging mine yesterday with ben it made 202g/s. (cold day though)
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be interested to see whatthe maf reading is though. Logging mine yesterday with ben it made 202g/s. (cold day though)
Well those Maf reading Sy make 249bhp. :surprised:
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be interested to see whatthe maf reading is though. Logging mine yesterday with ben it made 202g/s. (cold day though)
Well those Maf reading Sy make 249bhp. :surprised:
according to REVO the MAF for a stage 2+ is 190-205. 249bhp without taking timing into consideration is ok tbh
ens car made 260bhp on JKMs yet only gets peak maf of 195g/s
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your before graph was 238.3bhp 270Ibft :surprised:. that seems quite low on power. are you running quite conservative settings on your map.
be interested to see whatthe maf reading is though.
....I'd have to ask JKM what my MAF readings were - Such info starts to go over my head. I just look at the curve shapes, where they plot, and the bhp and torque. Oh, and the AFR plot.
I'll try and post such info as MAF readings in my Twintake review.
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apologies for messed up excel sheet not the best at this vagcom lark
but it shows - peak flow at 227 g/s - is this good?
airflow time stamp intake temp
PID C - 016 TIME PID D - 015
Mass Air Flow ( g/s) STAMP Intake air temperature ( °C)
47.8 0.81 30
60.63 1.49 29
83.55 2.19 28
109.36 2.87 28
95.97 3.54 28
37.02 4.21 27
54.69 4.89 26
64.88 5.56 27
78.58 6.23 26
91.16 6.92 26
61.83 7.6 25
65.86 8.29 25
41.47 8.98 24
18.36 9.67 24
15.91 10.36 24
41.36 11.04 25
96.5 11.71 27
180.22 12.38 28
60.08 13.06 23
22.36 13.73 23
14.16 14.4 23
12.69 15.07 24
9.41 15.74 25
9.16 16.41 26
12.75 17.11 27
10.88 17.79 27
13.36 18.47 28
17.8 19.15 28
16.63 19.82 28
36.33 20.5 28
39.05 21.17 28
18.75 21.84 27
17.16 22.51 27
20.58 23.18 27
18.41 23.87 27
12.44 24.55 27
13.38 25.23 28
14.55 25.92 28
21.44 26.59 28
44.83 27.26 28
18.55 27.93 27
16.69 28.6 27
15.02 29.28 27
24.8 29.95 27
142.91 30.62 27
112.86 31.31 27
227.02 31.98 26
193.86 32.66 25
62.58 33.34 21
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Don't you divide by 0.8 to get bhp??? Which makes it 284, or am I getting confused?
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Don't you divide by 0.8 to get bhp??? Which makes it 284, or am I getting confused?
Correct but the OP really needs to post up at what rpm that max value was obtained.
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Soooooooooo?............
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Ok RR, it's late on Wednesday night yet there's no sign of your review... :confused:
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:indifferent: :popcornsoda:
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his car has died due to fitting a stupid bit of bling :P
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:popcornsoda:
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his car has died due to fitting a stupid bit of bling :P
funny you should say that when robin rang me an hour ago he mentioned the forge twin doodar has caused him to break down and i had to give him a lift home. he probably will be avoiding the internet for a few weeks out of sheer embarrassment :happy2:
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^^^^
:laugh:
9:45pm and I've just finished the text and got all the pics and dyno plots but I'm now about to eat some of my daughter's homemade mince pies and watch True Blood, so tomorrow..
Nite-nite :smiley:
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his car has died due to fitting a stupid bit of bling :P
funny you should say that when robin rang me an hour ago he mentioned the forge twin doodar has caused him to break down and i had to give him a lift home. he probably will be avoiding the internet for a few weeks out of sheer embarrassment :happy2:
i was only kidding :confused: so what the fook has it done ? :surprised:
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^^^^
:laugh:
9:45pm and I've just finished the text and got all the pics and dyno plots but I'm now about to eat some of my daughter's homemade mince pies and watch True Blood, so tomorrow..
Nite-nite :smiley:
Come on RR, record the program on your PVR and post the review.. :smiley:
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he can't he's enjoying the attention :laugh:
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Review posted at last!
I think when you see it you'll understand why it took so long. I've gone to great lengths to explain how the TWINtake works as most people ask the same questions when they first come across it.
Please discuss here : - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9988.0
Thanks for all your patience. :happy2:
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i think his new bhp figure will be 254bhp and 310 Lb ft
so do i get nearest correct guess on bhp?
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i think his new bhp figure will be 254bhp and 310 Lb ft
so do i get nearest correct guess on bhp?
....Well we did peak 255 point something on a bumpy plot. I'm expecting that to probably be what we see on JKM's dyno next time when the ECU will have settled.
So, you must be the winner! :congrats: What have you won though? :evilgrin:
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^^your Carbonio :wink:
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^^your Carbonio :wink:
.... :signLOL:
Give me £110 (includes new filter) and it's yours!
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increasing the price now you sly bugger :laugh:
Im saving for an intake in the newyear :happy2:
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Im saving for an intake in the newyear :happy2:
....ITG, EVOMS, or TWINtake?
Or waiting to see more info and see actual ones?
SteveP will recommend the ITG, Hurdy the EVOMS, and myself the TWINtake but it's what you prefer. Ballpark of +20 bhp on K04 and torque benefits.