Author Topic: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....  (Read 23660 times)

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 376
  • -Receive: 433
  • Posts: 16612
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« on: July 11, 2009, 10:48:09 PM »
....

A few weeks ago I had my stock dogbone mount changed to a VWR Fast Road version. Although not necessary (but what mod is?) I later decided to also change the other two engine mounts. My dogbone review is here : -

Linky : - VWR Dogbone 'Fast Road' Engine Mount - Review....

Also recommended reading is john_o's excellent review - Linky : - Here......

In production cars, engine mounts have to be hard enough to restrict the drivetrain from too much movement but soft enough to be comfortable for Mr & Mrs Joe Average who usually seek a car which is as close as possible to being their living room armchair on wheels and complete with as many home comforts as possible. So inevitably there is a compromise.

Personally I don't feel safe driving any vehicle that feels like and handles like a marshmallow. I don't want a bone shaker but I do want a taut and tactile ride and I have the selfish luxury of not having to consider what anyone else wants from my chosen personal transport - If you ride in my car, you ride on my terms.



^ The VWR full set of 3 'Fast Road' engine mounts ^


CHOICES:

VWRacing offer 'Fast Road' hard bushed mounts or 'Race' solid mounts. The Race mounts will transfer more sound and vibration from the engine bay but will firm up the drivetrain to the absolute maximum and increase vibration levels - This doesn't matter in a racing environment.

There is also the choice of whether to change all three engine mounts or just the dogbone one. Mark Farmer at VWR advised me that the dogbone one was the mount which would give the most advantage and to leave doing the other two at least to begin with. The 2.0T FSI engine is well known for having a fair amount of movement and twist under power in the GTI chassis.



^ You can see just how much damping rubber the stock engine mounts have in comparison - It's no wonder that there is so much engine movement and that you can't hear the engine itself while driving. But hey-ho, it's what most car buyers want.




WHY?

- To firm up the drivetrain and help power be more efficiently delivered. This is more desirable on a remapped car.

- To add to the variety of sounds in the cabin while driving.

- To further reduce engine movement and subsequent breakages - Exhaust brackets being the most common. Milltek now include a free torque arm insert with their new exhausts.



^ Broken exhaust mount as a result of too much engine movement ^


SOURCING:

As I have a huge amount of trust and nothing but good experiences with VWRacing/RacingLine, I knew I would be expertly advised and so VWR engine mounts was a no-brainer. There are other engine mount manufacturers and VF have a good reputation.

Web: VWRacing / RacingLine

Phone: 01908 210088 Matt Walker

Please note that VWR's first priority is to their racing schedule but rest assured that when it's your turn you will be given 100% of their expert attention. Being flexible and patient is worth it!

Cost: £540.20 inc vat and labour for VWR's Fast Road engine and gearbox side engine mounts (2).


INSTALLATION:

Straightforward for any experienced crisp-eating mechanic who has the right equipment and tools (not me!).


 

PLUS POINTS:

- Greatly reduces engine movement and delivers more of the available power in a way which also feels more direct when driving.

- Results in less breakages of other components stressed by engine movement and twist.

- Consequently extends the life of your car.

- Adds much more 'music'!!


THE SOUND OF MUSIC!:

I had hoped for some sounds in the cabin after installing these two engine mounts but my expectations were that I would only hear a bit of transmission noise. I was both surprised and extremely pleased (VWR mechanic Simon was laughing at my enthusiasm when we went out on the test drive) when I heard all the growling. I had heard the growling on both the VWR demo GTI aka 'The Red Temptress', and the road-legal DSG track car but assumed it was all Milltek exhaust. It really is a Grrrrrrrrrr!! and very sporty indeed. There is a little transmission hum at times and that adds to the aural pleasure. The best way I can describe it is to say that it's as if I could only hear the bass guitar before but now I could hear the lead guitar and occasionally the rhythm guitar, but all in perfect harmony and as if via recording studio spec speakers and with excellent sound separation - Music! The Grrrrrr sounds are only heard with the use of the throttle - The exhaust part is constant but the engine part is according to the loud pedal. At higher speeds these extra engine bay sounds are less and never intrusive. It's almost as if the car suddenly has more cylinders - An utter joy! Better than Julie Andrews.


GOOD VIBRATIONS!:

On starting up from overnight cold, you will feel some gentle vibrations via both the steering wheel and the gear knob (mine is DSG). These vibes are a fast rhythm and match the standard automatically initiated higher engine revs you always get at startup. By the time your water temperature gauge is vertical at zero, the vibrations will no longer be felt - You'll then only hear those good vibes, just like The Beachboys.


MINUS POINTS:

- Using the VWR Fast Road mounts, there aren't any minus points I can think of. Race mounts, being solid without any rubber bushes, will transfer more sound and vibration from the engine bay to a level which some may find unacceptable in a road car.

- On a cold start-up you may feel some extra vibration through the steering wheel and gear knob but it soon disappears.

- If you want your cabin to be as quiet as possible, don't do this modification.




SUMMARY:

I found that installing the VWR Fast Road dogbone mount alone doesn't increase any vibration or noise in the cabin. In fact because I prefer a little more 'noise' I used this as additional justification for installing these two mounts.

I read somewhere: "Put some spunk into your vehicle by adding an engine mount to it". Having the extra 'music' results in much greater feedback which in turn encourages more spirited and enjoyable driving and it doesn't mean you have to drive at illegal speeds to have that fun.

When I lift my bonnet and blip the throttle I see absolutely no engine movement at all now.

To drive, the car didn't feel sloppy before but it now inspires even more confidence and exercise of that Quaife diff.

For anyone who wants to improve their GTI in a way which increases its taut and tactile feel and who seeks a more directly delivered power to the road, I can strongly recommend this modification. But if you are wanting to have your GTI as a less sporty family car, then it's not for you - Buy the ultra smooth Mk6 GTI and don't mod it.

:happy2: 8) :happy2:
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 12:39:18 PM by RedRobin »


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline john_o

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 124
  • -Receive: 97
  • Posts: 2847
  • oh the irony
    • My Car Blog
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 10:52:17 PM »
nice Robin  :happy2:
unexpected tbh , why did you add the 2 side mounts as well ? I thought VWR considered the gearbox one  was enough ?

btw this is my next mod, and I though (after your writeup) that I may just get away with 1 rather than all 3  :signLOL:
Black ED30 3dr manual : No 1369
REVO Stg1 | WALK | DEFI | THS side +VWR Road Lower+PF | S3 calipers/340mmXDDiscs/DS2500 | B12 Sportline
BLOG | BUILD

oldtomo

  • Guest
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 10:53:52 PM »
Great write up! Thanks Robin  :happy2:

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 376
  • -Receive: 433
  • Posts: 16612
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 11:07:26 PM »

nice Robin  :happy2:
unexpected tbh , why did you add the 2 side mounts as well ? I thought VWR considered the gearbox one  was enough ?

btw this is my next mod, and I though (after your writeup) that I may just get away with 1 rather than all 3  :signLOL:

....VWR do consider that the dogbone one is enough for a road car and that it's the most important one for helping get the power down. The other two just add to the whole as a package and I did them principally because I was so in love with the sounds when driving their demo GTI and the DSG road-legal track car, that I went for it principally to get those sounds. It was my decision and they weren't advising against it but I almost had to persuade VWR to do it for me!

However, I also realised that the two extra mounts would also have some physical benefit even if subtle.

The sound is absolutely wonderful!! It doesn't transfer to being heard outside the car as far as I know.


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline WhiteGTI

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 29
  • -Receive: 22
  • Posts: 3222
  • F-A-S-T
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 11:20:01 PM »
Great review Robin, looking forward to going out in your car again to hear it from inside the cabin!  :happy2:
2008 Golf GTI - Revo Stage 2 NOW SOLD

2006 E46 BMW M3 - 343hp
2000 Lotus Elise Sport160 - 160hp

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 376
  • -Receive: 433
  • Posts: 16612
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 11:30:47 PM »

Great review Robin, looking forward to going out in your car again to hear it from inside the cabin!  :happy2:


....O yes!! I just know you're gonna love those sounds!

Subtle but very audible....Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!! :jumpmove: :jumpmove: :jumpmove: :jumpmove: - 4-pot never sounded so good!


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline Tfsi_Mike

  • Global Moderator
  • Just look at my post count
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 243
  • -Receive: 319
  • Posts: 10230
  • Go Large or Go Home
    • Tfsi Mikes Money Pit AKS / TTE / RTech St2+ Cupra
  • My Ride: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=kb5eefoffc32gidnbrrf0bdbi1&/topic,32721.msg402587.html#msg402587
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 11:44:47 PM »

Cant wait to fit these, clutch 1st though

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 376
  • -Receive: 433
  • Posts: 16612
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 11:08:47 AM »
^^^^
Original post edited in 'THE SOUND OF MUSIC' and the addition of 'GOOD VIBRATIONS'.



^ I have now driven these three red GTI's with a variety of engine mounts. The mounts on my chair are a bit strange though.

:happy2:


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline Tfsi_Mike

  • Global Moderator
  • Just look at my post count
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 243
  • -Receive: 319
  • Posts: 10230
  • Go Large or Go Home
    • Tfsi Mikes Money Pit AKS / TTE / RTech St2+ Cupra
  • My Ride: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=kb5eefoffc32gidnbrrf0bdbi1&/topic,32721.msg402587.html#msg402587
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2009, 01:06:22 PM »
"Mark Farmer at VWR advised me that the dogbone one was the mount which would give the most advantage and to leave doing the other two at least to begin with"

I had th ECS dogbone mount insert kit fitted  at £29.99 and didnt note any difference.  :sad: :sad:  Still alot of movemement / rocking.....  Is it becaise the ecs is softer than the VWR or should i have it checked for damage?


** EDIT

After reading your dogbone thread looks like i'll be replacing the ECS with VWR kit....
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 01:13:26 PM by Tfsi_Mike »

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 376
  • -Receive: 433
  • Posts: 16612
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 02:07:09 PM »
"Mark Farmer at VWR advised me that the dogbone one was the mount which would give the most advantage and to leave doing the other two at least to begin with"

I had th ECS dogbone mount insert kit fitted  at £29.99 and didnt note any difference.  :sad: :sad:  Still alot of movemement / rocking.....  Is it becaise the ecs is softer than the VWR or should i have it checked for damage?

** EDIT

After reading your dogbone thread looks like i'll be replacing the ECS with VWR kit....


....Just to clarify: You previously thought that the ECS torque arm insert was comparable to the VWR dogbone mount. The torque arm insert (also offered by Neuspeed) is a helpful mod but its relative cheaper cost reflects the limitations of what it is able to contribute.

The poly ECS/Neuspeed insert is only a stiffening reinforcement added to the oem engine mount, but the VWR product is a total replacement designed with its own 'rubber' compliance within a very solid aluminium(?) mount. VF also offer a similar dogbone full mount.

For someone who just wants to better protect their exhaust mounts and doesn't want the expense of the replacement mount, the ECS/Neuspeed insert is good. It will also help reduce hopping.


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline Tfsi_Mike

  • Global Moderator
  • Just look at my post count
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 243
  • -Receive: 319
  • Posts: 10230
  • Go Large or Go Home
    • Tfsi Mikes Money Pit AKS / TTE / RTech St2+ Cupra
  • My Ride: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=kb5eefoffc32gidnbrrf0bdbi1&/topic,32721.msg402587.html#msg402587
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2009, 02:10:41 PM »
"Mark Farmer at VWR advised me that the dogbone one was the mount which would give the most advantage and to leave doing the other two at least to begin with"

I had th ECS dogbone mount insert kit fitted  at £29.99 and didnt note any difference.  :sad: :sad:  Still alot of movemement / rocking.....  Is it becaise the ecs is softer than the VWR or should i have it checked for damage?

** EDIT

After reading your dogbone thread looks like i'll be replacing the ECS with VWR kit....


....Just to clarify: You previously thought that the ECS torque arm insert was comparable to the VWR dogbone mount. The torque arm insert (also offered by Neuspeed) is a helpful mod but its relative cheaper cost reflects the limitations of what it is able to contribute.

Yup, basically.  does the solid vwr one also help with 'hop'?  Im going to be swapping to VWR all round

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 376
  • -Receive: 433
  • Posts: 16612
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2009, 02:39:26 PM »

does the solid vwr one also help with 'hop'?  


....Yes.

The VWR dogbone mount significantly improves the whole drivetrain's ability to deliver power to the road (or track) with the minimum of fuss.

However, I best qualify that by adding that I don't Launch Control my car and that my style of driving is very progressive rather than brutally stamp as hard as possible on the throttle. I prefer to reduce all instances of wheelspin if I can. In other words, I haven't 'tested' how the VWR engine mounts perform in LC or similar. However, that doesn't mean that I haven't driven any of the three red GTI's (all with VWR mounts, KW, Quaife) very hard when safe to do so.

The other factors are my suspension and Quaife mods (sorry!) which also do a lot to reduce traction hop.

As we both know only too well, it's the sum of the various parts which add up to an effective package.  

:happy2:
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 02:46:36 PM by RedRobin »


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline Tfsi_Mike

  • Global Moderator
  • Just look at my post count
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 243
  • -Receive: 319
  • Posts: 10230
  • Go Large or Go Home
    • Tfsi Mikes Money Pit AKS / TTE / RTech St2+ Cupra
  • My Ride: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=kb5eefoffc32gidnbrrf0bdbi1&/topic,32721.msg402587.html#msg402587
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2009, 04:56:51 PM »

Yup! Think my chassis will be complete by early new year  :driver: Just want to sort the clutch in next month or two. (although it doesnt seem to be slippin yet? - Think that's another thread)

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 376
  • -Receive: 433
  • Posts: 16612
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2009, 03:02:07 PM »
....

A thousand miles later and I'm still very happy indeed with these 'Fast Road' engine mounts.

It's a great feeling when cold starting the car - The very gentle 'buzz' vibration initially felt until warmed up is a nice reminder that I am about to take a sporty car out for some enjoyable driving. Once warmed up and out on the road using the loud pedal, the Grrrrrrrr adds to that enjoyment. Throbbin' Robin!

However, I don't expect the German VW marketing boffins would want any of it and it certainly doesn't fit in with the Audi-esque silver trim of the Mk6 interior - I must say that I find the Mk6's silver edged dashboard air vents irritatingly distracting - I'd want to change all the silver bits for matt black.


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline Hurdy

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 52
  • -Receive: 136
  • Posts: 7676
Re: VWR 'Fast Road' Engine Mounts (full set) - Review....
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2009, 09:19:57 PM »
I wouldn't mind hearing this from inside a car. I'm having the VF engine and transmission mounts fitted soon and wonder if they have a similar effect. :jumping:
Golf R gone.