Clutch slipping... Helix still the one to get?

[Tfsi_Mike]

^^ There you go! 

I'm mainly concerned about the clutch pipe popping off at the bulk head.  I guess it must just be the SMF kits where that happens. 

[Neil 54]

Hi Got my Ed 30 booked in with Alex on the 16th April for replacement Helix clutch and new gearbox oil really hoping its not that much heavier than standard once bedded in 

[pudding]

If you're going from a standard clutch that's past half worn (where the pressure plate springs move a lot more than when new) then it's not that much heavier.  Compared to a brand new OEM clutch, it's a LOT heavier.  If you end up being sat in traffic for more than 20 mins, you will definitely wish you had DSG 

Bite on the Helix is more abrupt than standard too, but you soon get used to it. 

Don't get me wrong, it's far from unusable as a daily.  My girlfriend has driven it, for 10 mins or so, and didn't even comment on the clutch weight, just said it was 'grabby' 

[Neil 54]

Hi Pudding thanks for the reply so basically that means as Helix ages it will get heavier?

[pudding]

Hi Pudding thanks for the reply so basically that means as Helix ages it will get heavier?

It will indeed.

[MS1]

I've had the same problem in the last couple weeks which is gradually getting worse.
With 130,000 miles on the clock I think it has done well.
Will an OE clutch simply not take the extra torque that stage 1 provides? I've done roughly 8,000 miles since the remap.
Obviously an uprated clutch is the way to go, but they are significantly more expensive.

From what I gather, an oem clutch should handle stage 1 levels of torque, but simply won't last anywhere near as long as it should.

I suppose it depends how long you plan to keep the car, and if further power mods are a possibility down the line. For me, I'll be keeping the GTI for a good 5+ more years and I am planning more power, so it wouldn't make sense to go for another oem clutch in my situation.

Also if you look at the job as a whole, done right with a new flywheel, plus labour, it's a dear job whichever way you look at it. The clutch itself is just one part of the job so you're not going to be saving a huge amount relatively.

I like the idea of having a clutch that you can put 400lb/ft through. Not sure the con rods will be too happy but that's just another a bridge to be crossed when it arises..

A brand new OEM clutch can cope with 300lbft, just.  One that's beyond half worn, doesn't like it and has been demonstrated enough times now that it's almost a fact!
Also, bear in mind VW only rate their FWD turbo gearboxes to a maximum of 280lbft, so over-boosting our cars puts us all on borrowed time anyway....but I digress....

.....Just to add some context to this because forums tend to be black or white with these things..... I am talking about peak boost / torque when the car is over-geared (so 6th on the motorway), peak boost up a hill in 4th and sometimes 3rd.  Most of the time on a flat or slight down hill and with the wind behind you, the clutch can cope with it.  Throw a cold winter's day into the mix and the variables all change again!

Just prior to getting my clutch done and with Revo, it was spinning up 3rd like clockwork, in the dry.  After it was custom mapped, it was barely wheel spinning at all and just didn't feel as responsive when in boost.  Why? Because the damn clutch was slipping!!!  Threw the helix in and it's 'f'ck me', what an animal!!!

I'd like to try a Helix clutch, but I must say, I've just had the OE LUK clutch replaced on my Mk5 after 97,500 miles, 70,000 of that has been with nigh on 300bhp/300lbft, it never slipped, I just had a bit of flywheel judder. Upon removal it was clear the clutch was still in a fair condition, maybe 75% worn, suggesting the OE LUK may be good for up to 100,000 miles, even on a near maxed out Ko3. I'm going to R Tech on Wednesday and there'll be another 75lbft torque, so I'll let you know how it handles it.

[AJP]

I've had the same problem in the last couple weeks which is gradually getting worse.
With 130,000 miles on the clock I think it has done well.
Will an OE clutch simply not take the extra torque that stage 1 provides? I've done roughly 8,000 miles since the remap.
Obviously an uprated clutch is the way to go, but they are significantly more expensive.

From what I gather, an oem clutch should handle stage 1 levels of torque, but simply won't last anywhere near as long as it should.

I suppose it depends how long you plan to keep the car, and if further power mods are a possibility down the line. For me, I'll be keeping the GTI for a good 5+ more years and I am planning more power, so it wouldn't make sense to go for another oem clutch in my situation.

Also if you look at the job as a whole, done right with a new flywheel, plus labour, it's a dear job whichever way you look at it. The clutch itself is just one part of the job so you're not going to be saving a huge amount relatively.

I like the idea of having a clutch that you can put 400lb/ft through. Not sure the con rods will be too happy but that's just another a bridge to be crossed when it arises..

A brand new OEM clutch can cope with 300lbft, just.  One that's beyond half worn, doesn't like it and has been demonstrated enough times now that it's almost a fact!
Also, bear in mind VW only rate their FWD turbo gearboxes to a maximum of 280lbft, so over-boosting our cars puts us all on borrowed time anyway....but I digress....

.....Just to add some context to this because forums tend to be black or white with these things..... I am talking about peak boost / torque when the car is over-geared (so 6th on the motorway), peak boost up a hill in 4th and sometimes 3rd.  Most of the time on a flat or slight down hill and with the wind behind you, the clutch can cope with it.  Throw a cold winter's day into the mix and the variables all change again!

Just prior to getting my clutch done and with Revo, it was spinning up 3rd like clockwork, in the dry.  After it was custom mapped, it was barely wheel spinning at all and just didn't feel as responsive when in boost.  Why? Because the damn clutch was slipping!!!  Threw the helix in and it's 'f'ck me', what an animal!!!

I'd like to try a Helix clutch, but I must say, I've just had the OE LUK clutch replaced on my Mk5 after 97,500 miles, 70,000 of that has been with nigh on 300bhp/300lbft, it never slipped, I just had a bit of flywheel judder. Upon removal it was clear the clutch was still in a fair condition, maybe 75% worn, suggesting the OE LUK may be good for up to 100,000 miles, even on a near maxed out Ko3. I'm going to R Tech on Wednesday and there'll be another 75lbft torque, so I'll let you know how it handles it.

Good luck with that! I think the standard clutch is good for maybe 310-320lb/ft. 375lb/ft may be pushing it, but fingers crossed it holds up for you.

[MS1]

Fingers crossed indeed mate. The Stage 2+ hardware R-Tech suggest for 275-290bhp and 350-360lbft, doesn't include an uprated clutch, that only comes in at Stage 3.

[AJP]

Fingers crossed indeed mate. The Stage 2+ hardware R-Tech suggest for 275-290bhp and 350-360lbft, doesn't include an uprated clutch, that only comes in at Stage 3.

Well you're on a brand new clutch, and Niki will make sure the torque doesn't come in one big dollop. You might be ok.

Not sure if you've read the whole thread, but mine started slipping once I'd had a full Powervalve fitted on top of Stage 1 R-Tech. It's entirely likely the clutch was on its last legs anyway and the extra torque from the big downpipe just broke its back!

I do have plans for Stage 3 - a turbo upgrade as well as all the 2+ bits - so it just seemed like logic for me to go for the Helix.

[MS1]

Yes bud, I read the whole thread. I saw that and guess you're right, it must have been on its last legs. You did the right thing uprating with your planned mods.

We'll see come Wednesday I guess. I'm looking for a linear map, with the bulk of the torque coming in at 3,200-3,500rpm, where my car is currently lacking a little, I can't be dealing with a huge torque spike. I don't know if I just got lucky or whether or not my previous mapper specifically created a clutch friendly map, for sure there's no big torque spike, but I've been stage 2 for 70,000 miles, including a big downpipe and 200 cell sports cat and the clutch has always been very well behaved.

[AJP]

Yes bud, I read the whole thread. I saw that and guess you're right, it must have been on its last legs. You did the right thing uprating with your planned mods.

We'll see come Wednesday I guess. I'm looking for a linear map, with the bulk of the torque coming in at 3,200-3,500rpm, where my car is currently lacking a little, I can't be dealing with a huge torque spike. I don't know if I just got lucky or whether or not my previous mapper specifically created a clutch friendly map, for sure there's no big torque spike, but I've been stage 2 for 70,000 miles, including a big downpipe and 200 cell sports cat and the clutch has always been very well behaved.

Well typical Stage 2 k03 at R-Tech should yield about 330lb/ft, and 2+ like you say should be 360lb/ft at least.

I take it you've got an upgraded pump installed? Intercooler?

[MS1]

Yes bud. Loba HPFP and Forge Twintercooler

[AJP]

Yes bud. Loba HPFP and Forge Twintercooler

You should get a great result. Make sure you post up your graphs once you're home!

[MS1]

Of course I will mate. We'll see what the score is and how the car drives I'm sure I'll be thrilled. My current map is geared towards top end power and lbft, so I'd be happy to see the bhp come down from 292 if the lbft goes up from 287 to 350+, especially low down gains :)

[AJP]

Of course I will mate. We'll see what the score is and how the car drives I'm sure I'll be thrilled. My current map is geared towards top end power and lbft, so I'd be happy to see the bhp come down from 292 if the lbft goes up from 287 to 350+, especially low down gains :)

You won't be disappointed pal. Hope your tyres have plenty of tread!