Very budget track build

[Clarkj93]

Not done much lately, getting married Sunday so even I've struggled to escape to the golf

So the heat shield to cover the bulkhead is a pain to remove and re-install so I just cut the thing up and bent some embossed stuff over it instead. I had to import this stuff from China as could not find anyone in UK who would sell it for a reasonable price which I thought was super strange as its quite a common material in modern cars



Added a little spare stuff over the IAT sensor, I heard before that they can heat soak and read higher temps because of it than the actual air that is in the intake, when I get around to it I'll see if I can put that theory to the test:



Now on 6 inch 550 pound spring up front (roughly 10kg/mm), not test driven yet but I'm pretty sure after so many calculations that we'll end up with a just a stiffer linear setup and the rebound should still be OK with this spring. Using a 7 inch 450 on rear which is the same sort of thing, linear and a little stiffer.



Bought a cheap little camber guage, you have to calibrate it everytime you use it and it does un-calibrate itself which just a single violent shake so got to be very careful using it but I just wanted to see how much camber I was roughly getting with the top mounts and if I could adjust them to still hit my target of -3.5 up front but with a bit more castor by rotating the top mount to move the strut rearwards. But.... when setting the camber at max both sides on the front it showed 2 degrees on the left and 5 degrees on the right? I think possibly the floor was not perfectly level (it was by eye though) and the subframe might be in some really weird position so I'm just going to try and get the subframe in a happy position for now and set the front camber to -3.5 via a trusted shop and if there is plenty of room left in the camber aligning area then I'll know next time I can add more castor.



Some pics of the bumper trim, like a minute amount less drag and I'm usually not one for the aesthetics and more about function over everything else but I think its looks cool in person more than anything

Ah good for you mate and best wishes for the day    Not something I've ever fancied doing tbh, much to my girlfriend's disgust 

Yeah that stuff costs a fortune over here for some reason. It's just stamped aluminium sheet 

The intake sensor does indeed heat soak because of where it is, but on the move it sorts itself out quickly. It's just at idle sitting in traffic it gives a high reading. If you have VCDS running, you will see it drop right down if you crack the throttle open to get some fresh air through it.  More importantly, the reading isn't the intercooler temp....it's just the heat of being right next to the cylinder head and low airflow when the throttle is closed.

Interested to hear how the stiffer springs work out.  400lb front and 350/400 rear is fairy common on most coilovers as a starting point, so 550 isn't massively stiffer. A lot of folk run the same stiffness front and rear because the rear springs being inboard behave differently.....aka 'motion ratio' but it's all good experimenting    Are your dampers up to that level of extra stiffness?  I fitted stiffer Eibachs to my Ohlins and it was a bit too bouncy for my tastes as the dampers weren't up to it, even at max stiffness.  Stiffer springs keep the car flatter in the corners though, so you don't need massive ARBs.

Have you got a deadset kit fitted to your subframe? That usually helps iron out camber discrepancies. Most of them have more camber on one side from the factory! Mine was stock -0.55 on one side, and -1.2 on the other side on it's standard suspension. Shoddy!  Even with SuperPro ball joints, the best I could achieve was -1.2 and -1.5. One BJ was fully in and other fully out to get that. They're not the best cars for alignment!  So long as the toe and caster are the same, it doesn't really matter too much.

The rear end looks pretty cool actually 

Thanks!

Oh that's real interesting about the throttle open to reduce the reading! That is something I would like to experiment with for sure.

Yeah so I measured the second rate of the bilstein springs as 480 front and 370 rear so kinda just copying the same balance front to rear and staying within a safe tolerance. More worried about the front as it does roll still more than I'd like at the front even with a bigger arb in the mid turn and when hard on the brakes. I was speaking to Julian at balance motorsport recently who basically told me if you're subtle on the stiffness increase your okay but if its substantially stiffer springs you should re valve, he did recommend just buying new coilovers though if going way stiffer as if your getting Bilstein to re valve it would probably be best to shorter the damper and possibly add adjustment and add that point it's the cost of a set of off the shelf or custom gaz coilovers anyway.

No never noticed that subframe walk issue really, I've always wondered too as the dead set kits add plain metal on top of the subframe alloy  which has load of grooves in it to grip into the shell but is then covered so in my untrained mind feels like your possibly more likely to loose your alignment?

That is a bit rubbish to be fair, I've toyed with the idea of string aligning myself but nah... It's so much effort into it on jack stands and so easy to read stuff wrong unless you have pricey equipment. I've got some basic toe plates turning up soon but that's just so I can get the car driving straight to take it to a trusted shop for a proper alignment rather than getting kwik fit to do it every time for £60 just so I cna safely drive to have a proper alignment afterwards

[pudding]

Yeah, I remember when I fitted the S3 intercooler to mine and I was seeing 50+ intake temps sat in traffic, I thought WTF is this all about? What a waste of money    Then I tapped the throttle and it dropped to about 30 instantly    Even lower on the move.  With that IC the temps were always around 10 above atmosphere in summer, and 5-7 over winter.  Just have to ignore the low speed readings as it's false reporting 

Julian is a legend! I think he's written a book! I remember when he first setup his business he would chat on the phone for ages, going into detail and explaining the fundamentals    He custom spec'd a set of Gaz Gold for my Corrado back in the day. It was for road use only, so he spec'd much softer springs than I would have chosen myself.....325lb front, 225lb rear, but man did it ride and handle well    Just feed him the axle weights and the car's intended purpose, and he comes up with the goods.  Interestingly enough, the only reason the MK7 Clubsport broke the ring record (at the time) was because of it's softer 'ring mode' suspension setting. Interesting. Maybe stiff isn't always the way    Logically speaking, if the suspension is soft enough to absorb bumps at high speed but stiff enough to prop the car up, it deflects the body shell less, which improves stability and consistency.  That is the problem with going too stiff, it can jog the car around too much, unsettling it mid corner....but it depends how bumpy the track is I suppose.

The Ohlins and Gaz Gold are the best coilovers I've ever owned, and both were on the softer side of the norm.  Neither lasted long though unfortunately, but I think Gaz have sorted their quality issues now. Gaz are ex Leda, who were a top brand back in the day 

When it boils down to it, damper quality is the key. If they are top notch, you can afford to back the spring rate off a bit.  The temptation is to eradicate all body roll completely, but a bit of roll can be advantageous in some situations. It's all about slip angles and other complex stuff I can't get my head around 

Anyway, I would 100% take advice from the ledge Julian 

The deadsets are collars to take up the difference in the subframe holes being much bigger than the bolt diameter, which locks it into place and it cannot move.  I tried the VAG fix with stiffer bolts and the toothed washers but the subframe still moved.  With the collars, the steering feel and alignment were waaaaay more consistent in hard cornering.  Without the collars, the movement was so bad, my steering wheel was a few degrees off centre after slinging it hard into a bend    And then do the same thing in the next corner, and it would move the opposite way!  Consistency is important on hard track work.

Getting it close with string or camber gauges is fine to get you somewhere.  4 wheel alignments aren't cheap and annoying if you have to keep doing them with every suspension tweak!

[Clarkj93]

Yeah tend to see 60 on idle but drops to 40 very quickly when moving. That's really interesting.

Yeah got his book, I think if you just tell him you liked his book he will help you out with anything you want

Didn't know that clubsport went softer... Thought they'd have gone stiffer but not driven a mk7 maybe they're quite stiff from factory anyway. I just chose on stiffer as I know all the mk5 race cars are running much higher rates, when it's time to upgrade dampers I'd like to take time in measuring corner weights and unspring mass and roll centres etc. There are a few hard to find guides about on the Web that show how to precisely pick the correct rates for maximum grip/balance and surface.

Youve convinced me on the dead set kit.... Looking around I think the tyrol one looks best design being a tougher material and the lower washers having a ridge to stop the bolt head from being able to dislodge.

[pudding]

Yeah it's just the valve overlap heating up the intake, perfectly normal.  That is also why catch cans and PCV deletes are pointless. Exhaust reversion carbons up the intake valves regardless.

   Ask him about his old Peugeot 205 gti next time you speak to him. It had a rear mounted turbo on it!  I think it was on that car he cut his teeth on suspension tuning 

Yeah the ring is a bumpy track by all accounts. Never been, but in the onboard videos online, it certainly looks bumpy!  So backing off the damping in 'ring mode' helps with stability at speed.  When I was messing with mine, roll centre was the single most important thing to get right, but I just lacked the funds and inclination to investigate TTRS knuckles.  If that approach isn't affordable, then stiffer springs it has to be unfortunately!

The Tyrol kit was very good. Not the cheapest but it certainly did the job. The only snag with very precise subframe location is it makes subframe refitment trickier if it ever has to come down again. Lots of fenangling with precise angles etc but it's doable.  But on the flip side, the geometry doesn't change as it all goes back exactly where it was, unlike the stock sloppy fitment 

[Clarkj93]

Yeah it's just the valve overlap heating up the intake, perfectly normal.  That is also why catch cans and PCV deletes are pointless. Exhaust reversion carbons up the intake valves regardless.

   Ask him about his old Peugeot 205 gti next time you speak to him. It had a rear mounted turbo on it!  I think it was on that car he cut his teeth on suspension tuning 

Yeah the ring is a bumpy track by all accounts. Never been, but in the onboard videos online, it certainly looks bumpy!  So backing off the damping in 'ring mode' helps with stability at speed.  When I was messing with mine, roll centre was the single most important thing to get right, but I just lacked the funds and inclination to investigate TTRS knuckles.  If that approach isn't affordable, then stiffer springs it has to be unfortunately!

The Tyrol kit was very good. Not the cheapest but it certainly did the job. The only snag with very precise subframe location is it makes subframe refitment trickier if it ever has to come down again. Lots of fenangling with precise angles etc but it's doable.  But on the flip side, the geometry doesn't change as it all goes back exactly where it was, unlike the stock sloppy fitment 

Yeah I misread the price on the Tyrol kit... ouch! Creation Motorsport do one too which is much more affordable, their quality is usually very good considering the price but albeit not the best you can get. Does that mean when you fitted the deadset kit that the subframe only has 1 position it can go in? getting rid of the the subframe being in a right wonky state like mine is now after fiddling with it?

[terrier]

Yeah it's just the valve overlap heating up the intake, perfectly normal.  That is also why catch cans and PCV deletes are pointless. Exhaust reversion carbons up the intake valves regardless.

   Ask him about his old Peugeot 205 gti next time you speak to him. It had a rear mounted turbo on it!  I think it was on that car he cut his teeth on suspension tuning 

Yeah the ring is a bumpy track by all accounts. Never been, but in the onboard videos online, it certainly looks bumpy!  So backing off the damping in 'ring mode' helps with stability at speed.  When I was messing with mine, roll centre was the single most important thing to get right, but I just lacked the funds and inclination to investigate TTRS knuckles.  If that approach isn't affordable, then stiffer springs it has to be unfortunately!

The Tyrol kit was very good. Not the cheapest but it certainly did the job. The only snag with very precise subframe location is it makes subframe refitment trickier if it ever has to come down again. Lots of fenangling with precise angles etc but it's doable.  But on the flip side, the geometry doesn't change as it all goes back exactly where it was, unlike the stock sloppy fitment 

Yeah I misread the price on the Tyrol kit... ouch! Creation Motorsport do one too which is much more affordable, their quality is usually very good considering the price but albeit not the best you can get. Does that mean when you fitted the deadset kit that the subframe only has 1 position it can go in? getting rid of the the subframe being in a right wonky state like mine is now after fiddling with it?

As said tyrol kit which i have fitted hasnt moved in 4 years   The CM ones are not quality and are suspiciously similar to aliexpress ones  I bought the washers only and they are BAD
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32830273084.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.74.21ef1802SVmNCq

[Clarkj93]

Yeah it's just the valve overlap heating up the intake, perfectly normal.  That is also why catch cans and PCV deletes are pointless. Exhaust reversion carbons up the intake valves regardless.

   Ask him about his old Peugeot 205 gti next time you speak to him. It had a rear mounted turbo on it!  I think it was on that car he cut his teeth on suspension tuning 

Yeah the ring is a bumpy track by all accounts. Never been, but in the onboard videos online, it certainly looks bumpy!  So backing off the damping in 'ring mode' helps with stability at speed.  When I was messing with mine, roll centre was the single most important thing to get right, but I just lacked the funds and inclination to investigate TTRS knuckles.  If that approach isn't affordable, then stiffer springs it has to be unfortunately!

The Tyrol kit was very good. Not the cheapest but it certainly did the job. The only snag with very precise subframe location is it makes subframe refitment trickier if it ever has to come down again. Lots of fenangling with precise angles etc but it's doable.  But on the flip side, the geometry doesn't change as it all goes back exactly where it was, unlike the stock sloppy fitment 

Yeah I misread the price on the Tyrol kit... ouch! Creation Motorsport do one too which is much more affordable, their quality is usually very good considering the price but albeit not the best you can get. Does that mean when you fitted the deadset kit that the subframe only has 1 position it can go in? getting rid of the the subframe being in a right wonky state like mine is now after fiddling with it?

As said tyrol kit which i have fitted hasnt moved in 4 years   The CM ones are not quality and are suspiciously similar to aliexpress ones  I bought the washers only and they are BAD
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32830273084.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.74.21ef1802SVmNCq

Shame that... Did they just move around or break or something that made them a no-go?

[pudding]

Yeah it's just the valve overlap heating up the intake, perfectly normal.  That is also why catch cans and PCV deletes are pointless. Exhaust reversion carbons up the intake valves regardless.

   Ask him about his old Peugeot 205 gti next time you speak to him. It had a rear mounted turbo on it!  I think it was on that car he cut his teeth on suspension tuning 

Yeah the ring is a bumpy track by all accounts. Never been, but in the onboard videos online, it certainly looks bumpy!  So backing off the damping in 'ring mode' helps with stability at speed.  When I was messing with mine, roll centre was the single most important thing to get right, but I just lacked the funds and inclination to investigate TTRS knuckles.  If that approach isn't affordable, then stiffer springs it has to be unfortunately!

The Tyrol kit was very good. Not the cheapest but it certainly did the job. The only snag with very precise subframe location is it makes subframe refitment trickier if it ever has to come down again. Lots of fenangling with precise angles etc but it's doable.  But on the flip side, the geometry doesn't change as it all goes back exactly where it was, unlike the stock sloppy fitment 

Yeah I misread the price on the Tyrol kit... ouch! Creation Motorsport do one too which is much more affordable, their quality is usually very good considering the price but albeit not the best you can get. Does that mean when you fitted the deadset kit that the subframe only has 1 position it can go in? getting rid of the the subframe being in a right wonky state like mine is now after fiddling with it?

Jesus they've gone up, substantially!  I'm sure it was around £150 when I got mine, but that was like, 6 years ago or something  Welcome to Brexit, cost of living crisis, and erm, reasons!

Yeah exactly that. Once the deadset is fitted, the subframe can only go back on in exactly the same position it came off, which is fiddly. You can of course just dissamble everything and bolt things back up individually, but then you'd likely need a realignment because the consoles would move out of their locked in position, well, from what I can remember at least. The fiddliness of putting it back as one lump pays off because the alignment doesn't change 

The key to a decent deadset is the alignment collars need to be harder than aluminium and also not cause galvanic corrosion. Tyrol's bronze alloy does that nicely. Aluminum collars would be a waste of time and stainless ones would definitely cause galvanic corrosion. It's why OEMs don't use stainless bolts.

Another key advantage of the deadset is the ARP bolts, which I might have mentioned previously. Again, Tyrol identified the main area of slipping and just binned off the VAG bolts in favour of decent ones. That is why the kits are expensive because the bolts are custom and low volume for a big company like ARP. Something to remember is Tyrol are race car specialists. Cloning companies are just that, they just copy a decent product and delude themselves that inferior materials will do the same job.

I totally get they are expensive for a few collars and bolts, but it's the only kit I'd recommend personally 

Haven't been on here in a while, any updates, or is the old girl tucked away for winter hybernation now?

[terrier]

Yeah it's just the valve overlap heating up the intake, perfectly normal.  That is also why catch cans and PCV deletes are pointless. Exhaust reversion carbons up the intake valves regardless.

   Ask him about his old Peugeot 205 gti next time you speak to him. It had a rear mounted turbo on it!  I think it was on that car he cut his teeth on suspension tuning 

Yeah the ring is a bumpy track by all accounts. Never been, but in the onboard videos online, it certainly looks bumpy!  So backing off the damping in 'ring mode' helps with stability at speed.  When I was messing with mine, roll centre was the single most important thing to get right, but I just lacked the funds and inclination to investigate TTRS knuckles.  If that approach isn't affordable, then stiffer springs it has to be unfortunately!

The Tyrol kit was very good. Not the cheapest but it certainly did the job. The only snag with very precise subframe location is it makes subframe refitment trickier if it ever has to come down again. Lots of fenangling with precise angles etc but it's doable.  But on the flip side, the geometry doesn't change as it all goes back exactly where it was, unlike the stock sloppy fitment 

Yeah I misread the price on the Tyrol kit... ouch! Creation Motorsport do one too which is much more affordable, their quality is usually very good considering the price but albeit not the best you can get. Does that mean when you fitted the deadset kit that the subframe only has 1 position it can go in? getting rid of the the subframe being in a right wonky state like mine is now after fiddling with it?

As said tyrol kit which i have fitted hasnt moved in 4 years   The CM ones are not quality and are suspiciously similar to aliexpress ones  I bought the washers only and they are BAD
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32830273084.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.74.21ef1802SVmNCq

Shame that... Did they just move around or break or something that made them a no-go?

Aluminium versus stainless   Chalk and cheese driving, no noise with the stainless kit
The aluminium washers lost their shape Price says it all really

[Clarkj93]

Yeah while there are many options out there it seems there is really only actually one.... any money for the golf next year will be on chassis stuff e.g roll cage  so will have to be another time.

Well life has been busy plus I lost interest for about a month to be honest, I was enjoying eating and drinking too much

The last two weeks just been cleaning up and getting it ready for its MOT, fingers crossed it goes through, I'm not totally convinced it will yet

After taking the shocks off and on so many times the wheels were allover the place. So I tried doing a home alignment for the first time, it was actually okay and the car drives straight about 90% of the time, its just adding a lot of lock when parking or navigating around low speed tight bends where you noticed its a little askew but perfectly safe to use and drive to the MOT and for the 1.5 hour trip to Taunton to get retro resus to set it up properly.



So after test driving and confirm it aligned okay I got to test the new 550 front/450 rear spring setup. Despite being about 1kg/mm stiffer front and rear the car actually rides far better on the road as well as being stiffer in total.... I really do not understand the point in progressive springs, they just seem to ride like crap and give less performance. The only issue I have currently is now the top mount is mounted lower, it means the angle of the drop link is less up-right and when I have the ARB on full hard it is genuinely only has about 2mm of clearance from the driveshaft! Full soft and medium the clearance is fine though, I do want to run it on full hard though too as for anyone who knows Combe, the exit of the Esses (first chicane) there is so much camber that you can lose a lot of time by having too soft ARB's. I might just ask Retro Resus to see if they can wiggle stuff around next time, I cant be asked taking subframes off in the winter months frankly!

Little bonus pic just because I thought it looked so cool from behind parked in the driveway!

[Aleksandar]

Very nice build and it's interesting to see your progress regarding brakes and suspension... Would you remember what thread size the b14 are? And how do you find the ar1 vs ns2r?

[Clarkj93]

Very nice build and it's interesting to see your progress regarding brakes and suspension... Would you remember what thread size the b14 are? And how do you find the ar1 vs ns2r?

Umm the B14 damper body thread is described as Bilsteins own thread, but lots of companies make parts that fit these threads anyway. It uses a 2.25 inch spring/spring seat. From memory I think the top mount thread is an M14?

NS2R is great, seriously people bad mouthe it for he wrong reasons, its decent in the wet on the road, good on track but it will get hot and loose grip eventually after maybe 10 mins but its linear so it gradually goes off unlike a slick tyre that may just go from on to off, plus its cheap and is still much quicker than your standard PS4 tyre.

AR-1 feel similar just much more grip and its like 80% of the grip instantly, the warm up lap is almost optional as its ready to go straight away as long as its dry.

[Clarkj93]

So it passed its MOT.. somehow! And now roll cage prep and further lightening has started!



Trying to get this heater core out without having to drain the coolant is my current challenge, I just can't be asked getting under the car in the crappy weather right now

The heater core is 100% going though, I imagine it weighs a fair bit looking at the size of it and it has a TON of wiring in it too. I will need some rainex for the windscreen and rear window then. Part of me is thinking of keeping the heater matrix however, as it will act as a sort heat sink, I could possibly run a small duct to it or from it also for more cooling, my only concern is will it be impossible to stop the interior getting rediculously hot?

The main to do list looks like the following currently:
- remove as much wiring and unrequired items as possible
- relocate battery to interior (need a new gel battery)
- install new steering wheel
- ditch heater core for lighter solution

Its not going to be a quick turnaround I imagine though, as its all quite a mess right now! I'm still in two minds about adding a fibreglass vented bonnet and plastic windows for the front as a light bonnet and gutting the doors out and adding plastic windows equals about 30-40kg in weight saving! and all from the front end. We will see..

[Clarkj93]

So I did try grinding the heater core into bits to try and get it out as a quick route but.... that does not work it turns out just made an enormous mess instead. I just spent some time doing it properly today and got it all removed. As you can see there is sh*t everywhere now




Feels like it weighs 5-7kg as a unit, but then there is the excess wiring, vents, the AC rad, condenser/compressor etc. By the end of it I think its a minimum of 20kg in weight if you ditch the entire AC and heater/blower system.

Nice big hole to fille now, not decided how I'm going to do it yet, will have to do a little research



Need to do a little cleaning and then I can start looking at removing unused wiring from the harness while there is lots of space + room, got some auto electrical tape to "try" and package it all neatly back together



Lots of other little bits to do, wiring new buttons, removing anything not needed, moving the battery to a much smaller gel battery inboard instead. make a nice fancy abs control panel for the centre console which is one job I'm actually looking forward to. cap off the coolant hoses, plug the firewall hole and some other little things I'm sure.

I need to consider what I am going to do about the doors, I would love to gut them as there is about 15kg each to get out of them but I need to find out if the cage is enough side impact protection or if I ought to retrain the crash bars in the doors.

[pudding]

I really do not understand the point in progressive springs, they just seem to ride like crap and give less performance.

Yup! Exactly why I was less than thrilled by the Racingline kit. Every aftermarket progressive spring I've tried has been sh1te. OEM ones are far better, but still not ideal. Linear all the way 

Is that harness tape the OEM style soft felt type stuff? If so it's really good