MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: ReflexRob on August 19, 2015, 10:01:20 pm
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I've been reading up on people stripping the inlet manifold off to clean up sooty deposits on their tfsi inlet valve system. Although I'm an enthusiastic spanner weilder I don't fancy stripping the sheer amount of stuff to do a manual clean on the valves myself or removal of the head!
So I've found this product that a local garage offers specific for the fsi problem. Unlike the usual fuel based cleaning systems this is a manual clean through high pressure nozzle and vacuum particle removal
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hHOK7nzt5YE
The cost for a treatment process is £250 which is a lot but better than stripping so much engine apart.
Any thoughts?
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I asked Alex at AKS Tuning how much it would cost to clean my valves, and he said it would be less than £200 (don't remember the exact amount). He said there may be a need for new injector seals iirc (only if they come off) and they're £12 each.
In other words the solution above doesn't save any money and may not give a better result.
I'd suggest asking your local specialist for a quote first.
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I was quoted a lot more then that by Alex, although it did include a RFD. Not much change from £500
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Must be because of the runner flap delete. I'm sure he said £190-something when I asked him yesterday afternoon and that seems to be the going rate from t'internet.
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Why not just run quality fuel at 98 RON And above and let the additives and high burn in that clean the valves for you?
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Why not just run quality fuel at 98 RON And above and let the additives and high burn in that clean the valves for you?
the TFSi engine is direct injection.. so the fuel dosent go anywhere near the rear of the inlet valves where the carbon builds up. so you get no fuel washing effect.
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I still believe in my method using 2/3 fuel with 1/3 NAPHTHA and/or spirits:
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Why not just run quality fuel at 98 RON And above and let the additives and high burn in that clean the valves for you?
the TFSi engine is direct injection.. so the fuel dosent go anywhere near the rear of the inlet valves where the carbon builds up. so you get no fuel washing effect.
I was going to say exactly this!
I paid £250 thereabouts for JKM to clean mine.
Not an onerous task once every few years or so.
Generally I don't believe in 'canned mechanics'.
Just for interest, below is a direct quotation from the technical staff of VAG with complete acknowledgment of the FSI intake valve deposit issue, and it's impacts, including: decreased performance, misfires, catalytic converter damage ... etc.
"Gasoline engines with direct injection of the fuel into the combustion chamber, i.e., not into the intake port, suffer especially from the problem of the formation of carbon deposits on components. Carbon deposits form especially in the neck region of intake valves. A more exact analysis of how these carbon deposits form leads to the following result: Oil and fuel constituents first form a sticky coating on the components. These constituents are chiefly long-chain and branched-chain hydrocarbons, i.e., the low-volatility components of oil and fuel. Aromatic compounds adhere especially well. This sticky base coating serves as a base for the deposition of soot particles. This results in a porous surface, in which oil and fuel particles in turn become embedded. This process is a circular process, by which the coating thickness of the carbon deposits continuously increases. Especially in the area of the intake valves, the deposits originate from blowby gases and from internal and external exhaust gas recirculation, and in this process, the blowby gasses and the recirculated exhaust gas come into direct contact with the intake valve.
Especially in the area of the neck of the intake valves, excessive carbon deposits have extremely negative effects for the following reasons: In the case of Otto direct injectors, the successful ignition of the stratified charge depends to a great extent on the correct development of the internal cylinder flow, which ensures reliable transport of the injected fuel to the spark plug to guarantee reliable ignition at the spark plug. However, a coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve may interfere so strongly with the tumble flow that ignition failures may occur there as a result. Under certain circumstances, however, ignition failures can lead to irreversible damage of a catalytic converter installed in the exhaust gas tract for purifying the exhaust gas. Furthermore, the coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve causes flow resistance, which can lead to significant performance losses due to insufficient cylinder filling, especially in the upper load and speed range of the internal combustion engine. In addition, the carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve may prevent correct valve closing, which leads to compression losses and thus sporadic ignition failures. This in turn could irreversibly damage the catalytic converter. There is the potential for small particles to break away from the coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve and get into the catalytic converter. These hot particles may then cause secondary reaction and corresponding local damage of the catalytic converter. For example, a hole may be burned in the structure of the catalytic converter.
Globular deposits are found especially on the valve stem downstream from a partition plate in the intake port. Due to the dripping of high-boiling hydrocarbons from the partition plate towards the valve neck or valve stem, globular carbon deposits eventually form there by the sequence of events explained above. These deposits on the valve stem can result in flow deficits due to undesired swirling and turbulent flow around the globular carbon deposits. This may persistently interfere with the formation of stable tumble flow from cycle to cycle.
A possible solution would be to keep these sources of deposits away, for example, from the intake valve, by completely eliminating exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port. However with the combustion behavior of modern reciprocating internal combustion engines, at least external exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port are absolutely necessary for reasons of emission control and fuel consumption, so that this approach is not possible. "
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having spent several hours manually cleaning my rs4 ports i struggle to belive that any 'canned' spray in item will have much affect. i tested 3 ports, one with brake cleaner, one with petrol and one with neat track wash, all required scraping and scrubbing several times over to get clean.
i just don't think any liquid can penetrate the baked on sludge / carbon enough to dissolve it, i could be wrong but that's my impression, i'll be doing my 2.0T next week with RFD :happy2:
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Before
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Follethalb%2Faudi_RS4%2F3F4D7BB9-BE7B-4A1A-BACE-4E692BEC09DA_zpswhcdshh3.jpg&hash=626e5018be4ba2b3b2c2e84644dc3cd1f1054f39)
After
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Follethalb%2Faudi_RS4%2FE857572D-F2A3-455A-8DF1-FAE203DBC6F1_zpslz2anukp.jpg&hash=1db98f7859dd6e4da8cdd5d901d928b5928e74b4)
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having spent several hours manually cleaning my rs4 ports i struggle to belive that any 'canned' spray in item will have much affect. i tested 3 ports, one with brake cleaner, one with petrol and one with neat track wash, all required scraping and scrubbing several times over to get clean.
i just don't think any liquid can penetrate the baked on sludge / carbon enough to dissolve it, i could be wrong but that's my impression, i'll be doing my 2.0T next week with RFD :happy2:
@olethalb (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=12022) where are you based? I need mine inlets cleaning and a RFD doing also
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bracknell bud
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Trying to find someone near me (Harrogate, North Yorkshire) to do this for me is proving troublesome.
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Interesting replies.
The solution I found isn't really a canned cleaner - it is a high pressure granular blaster - a bit like sand blasting. Anyone who has blasted with any sort of media knows how effective this can be.
Ultimately I agree that a hand clean is best - but there is so much to remove and refit that I thought the product I found looked hopeful. With the availability of endoscopes at garages these days they can also check the ports have been thoroughly cleaned.
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i didn't watch the video (work access) but where does blasted and media debris go then?
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The system incorporates a vacuum after the blasting process and then a dissolving agent gets sprayed in to remove any traces.
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i see, makes sense. my OCD needs to see it's clean and all traces gone but may serve a purpose for some. :happy2:
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I agree - endoscopes are cheap though!
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Similar thread here:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,99801.msg981200.html#msg981200 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,99801.msg981200.html#msg981200) :happy2: