Post by: mayesj86 on May 02, 2017, 09:55:01 am
Car is in the garage for timing chain replacement - by the end of today they will have had it for 2 days - and now they have come back and told me they cant do the job as the cam bolt is seized solid and they have broken 2 sockets trying to remove.
My questions are.... has anyone else had or heard of this problem and 2. would it not end up ruining the splines on the bolt before breaking a socket :thinking:.
They say they are VAG specialists but currently Im having my doubts. This is why I Hate putting my car to garages :sick:
I'm doing all I can not to loose the plot as im now going to have to try and find someone else to actually do the work as they were now suggesting cam removal and maching the bolt out.....which they got kindly told to f**k off I will sort it as they have had it for 2 days to get 4 hours work done!!!!!
Cheers
Jason
Post by: rich83 on May 02, 2017, 10:05:57 am
Post by: pudding on May 02, 2017, 10:09:47 am
It's because the bolt head needs a lot of torque to break the friction, and the head of the bolt is very shallow, so a LOT of mechanics and DIYers end up rounding the bolt head out.
The trick is to either get an assistant to push the socket hard onto the VVT adjuster whilst you undo it with a breaker bar, or use an impact wrench.
If they haven't cheesed out the bolt head already, take it to someone who's more confident.
I did it myself on my drive, first attempt and didn't cheese the bolt head, so god knows how people who charge an hourly rate for this can mess it up!
Post by: mayesj86 on May 02, 2017, 10:12:14 am
Post by: mayesj86 on May 02, 2017, 10:16:26 am
Yeah the VVT bolt is very common problem. Not so common is breaking the tool though! It normally rounds out.
It's because the bolt head needs a lot of torque to break the friction, and the head of the bolt is very shallow, so a LOT of mechanics and DIYers end up rounding the bolt head out.
The trick is to either get an assistant to push the socket hard onto the VVT adjuster whilst you undo it with a breaker bar, or use an impact wrench.
If they haven't cheesed out the bolt head already, take it to someone who's more confident.
I did it myself on my drive, first attempt and didn't cheese the bolt head, so god knows how people who charge an hourly rate for this can mess it up!
I have read and seen many stories of the bolt head rounding but not breaking the tool.
I have seen the DIY guide and was going to do it myself I just didn't have the time with work commitments but may have to have a go myself.
I honestly cant work out what is going on it truly has enraged me. Going to need to call them back and find out what really is going on. They are supposed to be a reputable VAG specialist with a good rep but this has changed that opinion.
Post by: pudding on May 02, 2017, 10:53:38 am
Yeah the VVT bolt is very common problem. Not so common is breaking the tool though! It normally rounds out.
It's because the bolt head needs a lot of torque to break the friction, and the head of the bolt is very shallow, so a LOT of mechanics and DIYers end up rounding the bolt head out.
The trick is to either get an assistant to push the socket hard onto the VVT adjuster whilst you undo it with a breaker bar, or use an impact wrench.
If they haven't cheesed out the bolt head already, take it to someone who's more confident.
I did it myself on my drive, first attempt and didn't cheese the bolt head, so god knows how people who charge an hourly rate for this can mess it up!
I have read and seen many stories of the bolt head rounding but not breaking the tool.
I have seen the DIY guide and was going to do it myself I just didn't have the time with work commitments but may have to have a go myself.
I honestly cant work out what is going on it truly has enraged me. Going to need to call them back and find out what really is going on. They are supposed to be a reputable VAG specialist with a good rep but this has changed that opinion.
Yeah that's why I chose to do it myself, because I'd read professionals and novices alike were having problems with that bolt! It was definitely a risk doing it on my daily, but one that paid off. Some people get the timing a tooth off with this job as well, so it seems the best way is to find a garage that's done dozens of them before, like AKS or similar.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 02, 2017, 02:28:11 pm
Yeah the VVT bolt is very common problem. Not so common is breaking the tool though! It normally rounds out.
It's because the bolt head needs a lot of torque to break the friction, and the head of the bolt is very shallow, so a LOT of mechanics and DIYers end up rounding the bolt head out.
The trick is to either get an assistant to push the socket hard onto the VVT adjuster whilst you undo it with a breaker bar, or use an impact wrench.
If they haven't cheesed out the bolt head already, take it to someone who's more confident.
I did it myself on my drive, first attempt and didn't cheese the bolt head, so god knows how people who charge an hourly rate for this can mess it up!
I have read and seen many stories of the bolt head rounding but not breaking the tool.
I have seen the DIY guide and was going to do it myself I just didn't have the time with work commitments but may have to have a go myself.
I honestly cant work out what is going on it truly has enraged me. Going to need to call them back and find out what really is going on. They are supposed to be a reputable VAG specialist with a good rep but this has changed that opinion.
Yeah that's why I chose to do it myself, because I'd read professionals and novices alike were having problems with that bolt! It was definitely a risk doing it on my daily, but one that paid off. Some people get the timing a tooth off with this job as well, so it seems the best way is to find a garage that's done dozens of them before, like AKS or similar.
I really wish I'd done it myself now already that way I would know the truth. They say they broke 2 sockets trying to remove the bolt. There suggestion as they say there is no room to drill the head is to leave that cam in situ and remove the other -which means timing belt would need removed so would need a new one and pump - to allow the to change the chain. To me that seems ridiculous. These guys are supposed to be master trained mechanics one is VW and the other is Audi. That's why I chose them they seemed genuine and had great reviews. Makes me wonder what work they did when they got reviewed.
On the plus side the cam follower was in great shape and not having s record of it being done I was happy with that atleast.
Not sure what to do now try to find s proper garage or risk it as it's my daily driver and do it myself . Had massive arguments with them and kept getting the run around and excuses they would give anyone unaware of what is actually invoked in doing it.
Post by: Pesky jones on May 02, 2017, 03:02:44 pm
Post by: pudding on May 02, 2017, 03:46:49 pm
Yeah the VVT bolt is very common problem. Not so common is breaking the tool though! It normally rounds out.
It's because the bolt head needs a lot of torque to break the friction, and the head of the bolt is very shallow, so a LOT of mechanics and DIYers end up rounding the bolt head out.
The trick is to either get an assistant to push the socket hard onto the VVT adjuster whilst you undo it with a breaker bar, or use an impact wrench.
If they haven't cheesed out the bolt head already, take it to someone who's more confident.
I did it myself on my drive, first attempt and didn't cheese the bolt head, so god knows how people who charge an hourly rate for this can mess it up!
I have read and seen many stories of the bolt head rounding but not breaking the tool.
I have seen the DIY guide and was going to do it myself I just didn't have the time with work commitments but may have to have a go myself.
I honestly cant work out what is going on it truly has enraged me. Going to need to call them back and find out what really is going on. They are supposed to be a reputable VAG specialist with a good rep but this has changed that opinion.
Yeah that's why I chose to do it myself, because I'd read professionals and novices alike were having problems with that bolt! It was definitely a risk doing it on my daily, but one that paid off. Some people get the timing a tooth off with this job as well, so it seems the best way is to find a garage that's done dozens of them before, like AKS or similar.
I really wish I'd done it myself now already that way I would know the truth. They say they broke 2 sockets trying to remove the bolt. There suggestion as they say there is no room to drill the head is to leave that cam in situ and remove the other -which means timing belt would need removed so would need a new one and pump - to allow the to change the chain. To me that seems ridiculous. These guys are supposed to be master trained mechanics one is VW and the other is Audi. That's why I chose them they seemed genuine and had great reviews. Makes me wonder what work they did when they got reviewed.
On the plus side the cam follower was in great shape and not having s record of it being done I was happy with that atleast.
Not sure what to do now try to find s proper garage or risk it as it's my daily driver and do it myself . Had massive arguments with them and kept getting the run around and excuses they would give anyone unaware of what is actually invoked in doing it.
Just to confirm, they've broken two of number 17 in this pic.....
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Frich%2Fimg%2FCar%2520Stuff%2FServicing%2FCam%2520Chain%2520Tensioner%2FTools%2520and%2520Parts.jpg&hash=575c616978756f0cdeaed0d8196ac00edd9c03ba)
....attempting to undo this bolt?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Frich%2Fimg%2FCar%2520Stuff%2FServicing%2FCam%2520Chain%2520Tensioner%2F36.jpg&hash=3abf4d631b4d35dad55a2e4e7f4d481c888b9386)
I don't even know how that's possible! The head of the bolt will round out way before the tool breaks, unless they've used really crap tools made of Stilton.
Post by: Dan_FR on May 02, 2017, 04:31:00 pm
Post by: barelyrelevant on May 02, 2017, 08:39:04 pm
Where abouts are you based?
Post by: mayesj86 on May 02, 2017, 09:24:15 pm
Whilst it is tight, others have successfully drilled the bolt out so I don’t know why they want to take the inlet camshaft out – seems mad. Would you really want it back with a rounded bolt to tackle yourself? Why cant they drill it out…
I'm not entirely sure why they won't drill it they tell me there isn't enough room to do that which I known there is. The bolt isn't rounded apparently they snapped 2 tools trying.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 02, 2017, 09:27:34 pm
Yeah the VVT bolt is very common problem. Not so common is breaking the tool though! It normally rounds out.
It's because the bolt head needs a lot of torque to break the friction, and the head of the bolt is very shallow, so a LOT of mechanics and DIYers end up rounding the bolt head out.
The trick is to either get an assistant to push the socket hard onto the VVT adjuster whilst you undo it with a breaker bar, or use an impact wrench.
If they haven't cheesed out the bolt head already, take it to someone who's more confident.
I did it myself on my drive, first attempt and didn't cheese the bolt head, so god knows how people who charge an hourly rate for this can mess it up!
I have read and seen many stories of the bolt head rounding but not breaking the tool.
I have seen the DIY guide and was going to do it myself I just didn't have the time with work commitments but may have to have a go myself.
I honestly cant work out what is going on it truly has enraged me. Going to need to call them back and find out what really is going on. They are supposed to be a reputable VAG specialist with a good rep but this has changed that opinion.
Yeah that's why I chose to do it myself, because I'd read professionals and novices alike were having problems with that bolt! It was definitely a risk doing it on my daily, but one that paid off. Some people get the timing a tooth off with this job as well, so it seems the best way is to find a garage that's done dozens of them before, like AKS or similar.
I really wish I'd done it myself now already that way I would know the truth. They say they broke 2 sockets trying to remove the bolt. There suggestion as they say there is no room to drill the head is to leave that cam in situ and remove the other -which means timing belt would need removed so would need a new one and pump - to allow the to change the chain. To me that seems ridiculous. These guys are supposed to be master trained mechanics one is VW and the other is Audi. That's why I chose them they seemed genuine and had great reviews. Makes me wonder what work they did when they got reviewed.
On the plus side the cam follower was in great shape and not having s record of it being done I was happy with that atleast.
Not sure what to do now try to find s proper garage or risk it as it's my daily driver and do it myself . Had massive arguments with them and kept getting the run around and excuses they would give anyone unaware of what is actually invoked in doing it.
Just to confirm, they've broken two of number 17 in this pic.....
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Frich%2Fimg%2FCar%2520Stuff%2FServicing%2FCam%2520Chain%2520Tensioner%2FTools%2520and%2520Parts.jpg&hash=575c616978756f0cdeaed0d8196ac00edd9c03ba)
....attempting to undo this bolt?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Frich%2Fimg%2FCar%2520Stuff%2FServicing%2FCam%2520Chain%2520Tensioner%2F36.jpg&hash=3abf4d631b4d35dad55a2e4e7f4d481c888b9386)
I don't even know how that's possible! The head of the bolt will round out way before the tool breaks, unless they've used really crap tools made of Stilton.
That's the tool the apparently broke 2 of trying to remove that bolt. That was my argument that the bolt would strip long before that tool would snap unless it was cheap soft rubbish. It's really bugging me what's going on.
Post by: Juliand on May 03, 2017, 08:37:35 am
What a nightmare - feel for you and hope you get it sorted soon
Post by: ducman77 on May 03, 2017, 09:31:14 am
Very frustrating for you mate. Hope you get sorted soon
Post by: mayesj86 on May 03, 2017, 11:52:41 am
Sounds like you've got to go and see it for yourself, get your car back and take it somewhere else. Hopefully the bolt wont be too rounded. Not a job I'd fancy doing myself.
What a nightmare - feel for you and hope you get it sorted soon
I can only go on what they were saying unfortunately. I cant get my head round snapping 2 of the correct sockets before the head rounded but they say it didn't round.
Im not too bothered about doing it myself its the thought of getting it wrong that's the worst bit. The write up on the forum is fantastic and details everything step by step. There is another independent garage here im going to have a chat with as he gets a great write up with the Audi boys.
Will keep updating.
Post by: Pesky jones on May 03, 2017, 12:15:16 pm
I reckon the bolt isn’t in a good way personally.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 03, 2017, 12:30:53 pm
If the bolt isn’t rounded (im skeptical) then it’s not the end of the world, just needs the correct tool with correct application (second person to hold the tool in the bolt, whilst first person turns the breaker bar). The bolt is tight, but I’ve done the job twice now using the above method with no problems.
I reckon the bolt isn’t in a good way personally.
To be honest im sceptical about the whole story. I honestly cant see the bolt being in a good nick if they have put as much torque through it as they say they have and "snapped" the tools.
Im going to have a chat with another specialist today for his opinion which will probably be the same as ours and strip it down next weekend when im off to have a look at what im working with. If its a good enough condition I will just use the excellent guide on here to finish the job myself with a helper at hand.
My gut feeling is the bolt is gubbed but I need to see it for myself. I'm still raging!!
Post by: Pesky jones on May 03, 2017, 12:33:23 pm
Post by: mayesj86 on May 03, 2017, 01:35:24 pm
I would be too mate. Yeah once you know the condition you can go from there. Where in the country are you ?
I live in Scotland buddy in between Edinburgh and Glasgow. There isn't very many VAG specialist In this area.
I'm actually starting to dread what mess I'm going to find under the cover but fingers crossed there is something that I can work with :scared:
Off to VW this afternoon to order the correct tools for locking cams, removing bolt and adjusting the pulley if it required along with the chain , tensioner and all gaskets.
Post by: pudding on May 03, 2017, 02:05:57 pm
If the bolt isn’t rounded (im skeptical) then it’s not the end of the world, just needs the correct tool with correct application (second person to hold the tool in the bolt, whilst first person turns the breaker bar). The bolt is tight, but I’ve done the job twice now using the above method with no problems.
I reckon the bolt isn’t in a good way personally.
That is absolutely key to successful removal of the bolt, or a decent cordless impact wrench / air gun.
I had a mate do the same on a rear wheel bearing job because the head of the bolt on that is also stupidly shallow like the cam bolt.
To be fair to VAG technicians / master techs, they aren't usually trained, or even allowed to drill out stripped bolts etc. VAG teach them to be parts swappers. They're not paid to spend hours on fixing something when an entire new part(s) can be bolted on in a lot less time.
Another thing to bear in mind is these cars are now at the age where this is happening. Not all technicians / master techs will have done this job working at dealers X years ago, so it's new to them. VAG's stance on it is - no service schedule. So they were not geared up for swapping them. I remember when MK4 R32 chains used to stretch. My god, the cock ups and hassle dealer techs had with that fiasco!!! Cars returned to customers a tooth out, fault codes, reduced power.....all sorts of agro, and it's a gearbox off job on that car, so a full day's work - to have to do again if it's done wrong. Who was at fault? VW for not properly training their staff on replacing wear items properly, or at all, or their closed book "No service schedule on this part" attitude?
What I'm trying to say there's a lot of "in the know" knowledge with these cars that usually only Hobbyists find out and know, and it's the people who turn a hobby into a business that often succeed in this game.
So anyway, go easy on these guys. I get you're annoyed but banging tables rarely gets you anywhere. Give them a chance to rectify it, but don't pay over the odds.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 04, 2017, 03:11:08 pm
If the bolt isn’t rounded (im skeptical) then it’s not the end of the world, just needs the correct tool with correct application (second person to hold the tool in the bolt, whilst first person turns the breaker bar). The bolt is tight, but I’ve done the job twice now using the above method with no problems.
I reckon the bolt isn’t in a good way personally.
That is absolutely key to successful removal of the bolt, or a decent cordless impact wrench / air gun.
I had a mate do the same on a rear wheel bearing job because the head of the bolt on that is also stupidly shallow like the cam bolt.
To be fair to VAG technicians / master techs, they aren't usually trained, or even allowed to drill out stripped bolts etc. VAG teach them to be parts swappers. They're not paid to spend hours on fixing something when an entire new part(s) can be bolted on in a lot less time.
Another thing to bear in mind is these cars are now at the age where this is happening. Not all technicians / master techs will have done this job working at dealers X years ago, so it's new to them. VAG's stance on it is - no service schedule. So they were not geared up for swapping them. I remember when MK4 R32 chains used to stretch. My god, the cock ups and hassle dealer techs had with that fiasco!!! Cars returned to customers a tooth out, fault codes, reduced power.....all sorts of agro, and it's a gearbox off job on that car, so a full day's work - to have to do again if it's done wrong. Who was at fault? VW for not properly training their staff on replacing wear items properly, or at all, or their closed book "No service schedule on this part" attitude?
What I'm trying to say there's a lot of "in the know" knowledge with these cars that usually only Hobbyists find out and know, and it's the people who turn a hobby into a business that often succeed in this game.
So anyway, go easy on these guys. I get you're annoyed but banging tables rarely gets you anywhere. Give them a chance to rectify it, but don't pay over the odds.
I have been back in touch with the garage and they are maintaining that the only solution is to either remove the cam and VVT unit to try remove the bolt in the vice or machine shop to drill it out or remove the other cam leaving the VVT unit in place and changing it that way. They cant give me a quote as to how much the work is going to be as there is too many variables they say.
I may rant and rave a wee bit here but try to remain professional and use the politically correct filter at all times when dealing with them. Its hard when the 3 mechanics are basically shouting at you saying they are right and you are wrong.
I have been to see that other specialist and he is thinking the same as me that the bolt has probably been stripped and they just wont admit it...again just speculation until I get it to bits and find out.
All the kit has been ordered from VW to strip and rebuild.
Post by: pudding on May 05, 2017, 09:45:21 am
It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ. If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so. They had their chance and messed it up!
Post by: Dan_FR on May 05, 2017, 10:29:05 am
Post by: mayesj86 on May 05, 2017, 10:38:08 am
Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!
It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ. If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so. They had their chance and messed it up!
It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.
My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.
All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 05, 2017, 10:46:09 am
Get down there and examine the bolt for damage. They've obviously damaged it, most likely from using the nearest fitting spline tool they had to hand. See it all thr time with garages unfortunately.
They put the car back together before I could get there as they didn't have time or space this week to do the job the way they wanted so I was required to re book it. Unfortunately I can only speculate that the bolt has been stripped but my gut is telling me it has. I cant see how the tools would snap before the bolt would go if it were that tight but that's just my opinion on it.
I have ordered everything from VW so hopefully be here this afternoon and I have made the time - which I should have before - to have a go myself next weekend and ordered a huge gazebo to keep the car covered in case it gets a bit wild outside ( Scotland and all). Its just a little bit frustrating the whole situation and their attitude and responses to my questions really hacked me off.
Post by: pudding on May 05, 2017, 10:50:07 am
Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!
It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ. If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so. They had their chance and messed it up!
It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.
My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.
All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.
OK, well I'm glad you've rescued the car from them! A bit of a sour experience for you.
Rich's guide is excellent. I'd already done mine a week or so before he did, so didn't have the luxury of following a comprehensive guide like that, but it's all covered and spot on :happy2:
Have you got the VW cam locking tool and the VW spline tool for the bolt? I really wouldn't recommend using any other brand of tool for this work.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 05, 2017, 11:20:19 am
Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!
It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ. If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so. They had their chance and messed it up!
It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.
My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.
All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.
OK, well I'm glad you've rescued the car from them! A bit of a sour experience for you.
Rich's guide is excellent. I'd already done mine a week or so before he did, so didn't have the luxury of following a comprehensive guide like that, but it's all covered and spot on :happy2:
Have you got the VW cam locking tool and the VW spline tool for the bolt? I really wouldn't recommend using any other brand of tool for this work.
Thankfully the car is back with me ticking timing chain and all. I have always hate putting my car into garages and unfortunately this has made that feelings a whole lot worse. I very rarely use garages if I can avoid apart from an MOT.
I have been studying the guide for the last 2 days and its brilliant the only thing I will need to double check is if my HPFP has the banjo bolt or not - car is an ED30 :thinking:
All parts and tools are genuine VW items ( apart form socket set and torque set) I don't want to risk using inferior equipment and damaging the bolt if it isn't already. The job itself doesn't look too bad its just the thought of getting it wrong that's the slightly off putting thing. Take some brave pills and go for it :signLOL:
Post by: pudding on May 05, 2017, 11:56:49 am
Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!
It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ. If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so. They had their chance and messed it up!
It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.
My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.
All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.
OK, well I'm glad you've rescued the car from them! A bit of a sour experience for you.
Rich's guide is excellent. I'd already done mine a week or so before he did, so didn't have the luxury of following a comprehensive guide like that, but it's all covered and spot on :happy2:
Have you got the VW cam locking tool and the VW spline tool for the bolt? I really wouldn't recommend using any other brand of tool for this work.
Thankfully the car is back with me ticking timing chain and all. I have always hate putting my car into garages and unfortunately this has made that feelings a whole lot worse. I very rarely use garages if I can avoid apart from an MOT.
I have been studying the guide for the last 2 days and its brilliant the only thing I will need to double check is if my HPFP has the banjo bolt or not - car is an ED30 :thinking:
All parts and tools are genuine VW items ( apart form socket set and torque set) I don't want to risk using inferior equipment and damaging the bolt if it isn't already. The job itself doesn't look too bad its just the thought of getting it wrong that's the slightly off putting thing. Take some brave pills and go for it :signLOL:
Yeah it's a struggle to find a trustworthy one unfortunately!
I can't remember what year the fuel pump fittings changed, but my 07 ED30 has the non-banjo fitting, not sure what it's called - the easier one!
Good stuff. After seeing how much the genuine cam locking tool bent undoing that bolt, I'd hate to use a pattern one! It's not tightened to a high torque at all, but needs a lot of torque to break the friction removing the darn thing!
The only thing that gets a lot of people with this job is the timing. Getting it a tooth out is common, but if you follow Rich's guide you'll be fine :smiley:
Post by: Pesky jones on May 05, 2017, 12:10:35 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on May 05, 2017, 12:14:15 pm
Post by: pudding on May 05, 2017, 12:17:15 pm
Post by: mayesj86 on May 05, 2017, 12:56:15 pm
Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!
It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ. If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so. They had their chance and messed it up!
It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.
My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.
All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.
OK, well I'm glad you've rescued the car from them! A bit of a sour experience for you.
Rich's guide is excellent. I'd already done mine a week or so before he did, so didn't have the luxury of following a comprehensive guide like that, but it's all covered and spot on :happy2:
Have you got the VW cam locking tool and the VW spline tool for the bolt? I really wouldn't recommend using any other brand of tool for this work.
Thankfully the car is back with me ticking timing chain and all. I have always hate putting my car into garages and unfortunately this has made that feelings a whole lot worse. I very rarely use garages if I can avoid apart from an MOT.
I have been studying the guide for the last 2 days and its brilliant the only thing I will need to double check is if my HPFP has the banjo bolt or not - car is an ED30 :thinking:
All parts and tools are genuine VW items ( apart form socket set and torque set) I don't want to risk using inferior equipment and damaging the bolt if it isn't already. The job itself doesn't look too bad its just the thought of getting it wrong that's the slightly off putting thing. Take some brave pills and go for it :signLOL:
Yeah it's a struggle to find a trustworthy one unfortunately!
I can't remember what year the fuel pump fittings changed, but my 07 ED30 has the non-banjo fitting, not sure what it's called - the easier one!
Good stuff. After seeing how much the genuine cam locking tool bent undoing that bolt, I'd hate to use a pattern one! It's not tightened to a high torque at all, but needs a lot of torque to break the friction removing the darn thing!
The only thing that gets a lot of people with this job is the timing. Getting it a tooth out is common, but if you follow Rich's guide you'll be fine :smiley:
It sure is a struggle to find one. Normally I do everything myself relating to the car.
It bent the locking tool?? Must require a heck of a lot of force to break the friction on the VVT pulley.
Its the tooth out that has me in cold sweats. Would be a nightmare to put it all together and find it a tooth out. Doing other chains in the past I have also marked up the chain itself against pulley's and where the wee gold coloured link sits in relation. I'M hopeful i wont have to move the cam at all to get the VVT unit back on if I do it correctly.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 05, 2017, 12:57:24 pm
You wont have banjo bolt. Only AXX and very early BWA engines have that
Thanks very much for the info was dreading the thought of mucking about with a banjo bolt.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 05, 2017, 01:00:26 pm
Good advice. Another tip I can think of is to make sure you remove and refit the chain cover dead square, otherwise 1 or more of the 3 oil control rings can break. They are pretty fragile. AKS Tuning sell them if you want to have a set on standby.
Thanks for the info I will order some up. I have also ordered the O ring for the HPFP in case its gubbed although they changed the cam follower when rebuilding for me. Hopefully they changed it too. Want to have everything available that I may need.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 05, 2017, 01:02:52 pm
Make reference marks before removing chain. Count links between sprockets etc. Just do anything you can to make sure you're confident it is back on how it was. I've marked the chain link and sprocket tooth on the inlet cam and then the chain link and tooth on the exhaust cam aswell in the past.
Thanks for the advice. I have used similar methods in the past doing chains on BMW's. Would you recommend using the gold coloured link as a reference guide? Will mark as many places as I can to make sure it goes back the correct way.
Post by: pudding on May 05, 2017, 01:59:51 pm
Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!
It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ. If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so. They had their chance and messed it up!
It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.
My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.
All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.
OK, well I'm glad you've rescued the car from them! A bit of a sour experience for you.
Rich's guide is excellent. I'd already done mine a week or so before he did, so didn't have the luxury of following a comprehensive guide like that, but it's all covered and spot on :happy2:
Have you got the VW cam locking tool and the VW spline tool for the bolt? I really wouldn't recommend using any other brand of tool for this work.
Thankfully the car is back with me ticking timing chain and all. I have always hate putting my car into garages and unfortunately this has made that feelings a whole lot worse. I very rarely use garages if I can avoid apart from an MOT.
I have been studying the guide for the last 2 days and its brilliant the only thing I will need to double check is if my HPFP has the banjo bolt or not - car is an ED30 :thinking:
All parts and tools are genuine VW items ( apart form socket set and torque set) I don't want to risk using inferior equipment and damaging the bolt if it isn't already. The job itself doesn't look too bad its just the thought of getting it wrong that's the slightly off putting thing. Take some brave pills and go for it :signLOL:
Yeah it's a struggle to find a trustworthy one unfortunately!
I can't remember what year the fuel pump fittings changed, but my 07 ED30 has the non-banjo fitting, not sure what it's called - the easier one!
Good stuff. After seeing how much the genuine cam locking tool bent undoing that bolt, I'd hate to use a pattern one! It's not tightened to a high torque at all, but needs a lot of torque to break the friction removing the darn thing!
The only thing that gets a lot of people with this job is the timing. Getting it a tooth out is common, but if you follow Rich's guide you'll be fine :smiley:
It sure is a struggle to find one. Normally I do everything myself relating to the car.
It bent the locking tool?? Must require a heck of a lot of force to break the friction on the VVT pulley.
Its the tooth out that has me in cold sweats. Would be a nightmare to put it all together and find it a tooth out. Doing other chains in the past I have also marked up the chain itself against pulley's and where the wee gold coloured link sits in relation. I'M hopeful i wont have to move the cam at all to get the VVT unit back on if I do it correctly.
It didn't bend it out of shape permanently, I meant I could see it flexing under the strain....and the VW tool is the stoutest one out there! Probably won't affect you though because it sounds like you've got a hot date with the drill ahead!
There is a way to check the cam timing electronically after you've done the job, which we can go into nearer the time :smiley:
Post by: mayesj86 on May 05, 2017, 02:44:59 pm
Well there's no need for them to get stroppy with you, it's very unprofessional, so I can understand your frustration now!
It does sound like they have messed it up and aren't confident drilling out the bolt in situ. If you haven't already recovered the car, I would do so. They had their chance and messed it up!
It was the bullying tactics that got my back against the wall more than them not doing the job.
My gut feeling is they have messed up and wont admit it to save face and hoped I would just say get on with it. I went and picked it up on Tuesday after they told me they were just putting it back together and would need to re book it in to have cams removed as they were too busy and fully booked for another week.....if im honest that really annoyed me that part of it.
All parts will be here this afternoon hopefully so next weekend I will have a look and see what the story is with the bolt. If its stripped fine I will deal with it at the time have all equipment and tools to drill it if required. I would have done the work myself if work hadn't got in the way but I have now made the time to have a look and a go. The guide rich83 posted looks brilliant and comprehensive.
OK, well I'm glad you've rescued the car from them! A bit of a sour experience for you.
Rich's guide is excellent. I'd already done mine a week or so before he did, so didn't have the luxury of following a comprehensive guide like that, but it's all covered and spot on :happy2:
Have you got the VW cam locking tool and the VW spline tool for the bolt? I really wouldn't recommend using any other brand of tool for this work.
Thankfully the car is back with me ticking timing chain and all. I have always hate putting my car into garages and unfortunately this has made that feelings a whole lot worse. I very rarely use garages if I can avoid apart from an MOT.
I have been studying the guide for the last 2 days and its brilliant the only thing I will need to double check is if my HPFP has the banjo bolt or not - car is an ED30 :thinking:
All parts and tools are genuine VW items ( apart form socket set and torque set) I don't want to risk using inferior equipment and damaging the bolt if it isn't already. The job itself doesn't look too bad its just the thought of getting it wrong that's the slightly off putting thing. Take some brave pills and go for it :signLOL:
Yeah it's a struggle to find a trustworthy one unfortunately!
I can't remember what year the fuel pump fittings changed, but my 07 ED30 has the non-banjo fitting, not sure what it's called - the easier one!
Good stuff. After seeing how much the genuine cam locking tool bent undoing that bolt, I'd hate to use a pattern one! It's not tightened to a high torque at all, but needs a lot of torque to break the friction removing the darn thing!
The only thing that gets a lot of people with this job is the timing. Getting it a tooth out is common, but if you follow Rich's guide you'll be fine :smiley:
It sure is a struggle to find one. Normally I do everything myself relating to the car.
It bent the locking tool?? Must require a heck of a lot of force to break the friction on the VVT pulley.
Its the tooth out that has me in cold sweats. Would be a nightmare to put it all together and find it a tooth out. Doing other chains in the past I have also marked up the chain itself against pulley's and where the wee gold coloured link sits in relation. I'M hopeful i wont have to move the cam at all to get the VVT unit back on if I do it correctly.
It didn't bend it out of shape permanently, I meant I could see it flexing under the strain....and the VW tool is the stoutest one out there! Probably won't affect you though because it sounds like you've got a hot date with the drill ahead!
There is a way to check the cam timing electronically after you've done the job, which we can go into nearer the time :smiley:
That's impressive it was flexing. I have just picked up all the VW items and its one chunky bit of gear to flex. Your probably right buddy I see a date will a drill in my very near future :sad1:
I like the sound of the checks once its done. Save that for another day and hopefully get it right first time...fingers crossed
Post by: Pesky jones on May 06, 2017, 11:12:34 pm
Post by: rich83 on May 06, 2017, 11:19:14 pm
Post by: mayesj86 on May 08, 2017, 08:43:37 am
You really end up putting alot of stress on the camshafts/tool when you pull down on the breaker bar, when it releases it goes with a crack.
I really hope it goes with that crack and I wont have the hot date with the drill. It does go with a huge bang though :surprised:
Post by: barelyrelevant on May 08, 2017, 07:20:04 pm
Post by: Juliand on May 09, 2017, 09:25:29 am
My car in the garage at the moment to have the chain and tensioner done tomorrow. I trust them, but fingers crossed it all goes to plan and I can enjoy a lovely quiet engine without worrying it's going to go bang.
There's a third component too - a chain adjuster - some don't change this, but seems to make sense to me to replace all of the components, whilst its being done. Not sure how much the adjuster is, or what it's made of, but if there's plastic bits in it.......
Post by: Dan_FR on May 09, 2017, 09:48:42 am
Post by: pudding on May 09, 2017, 09:52:35 am
Post by: mayesj86 on May 09, 2017, 12:40:55 pm
The adjuster is a complex and expensive piece of kit, costing several hundreds from VW.
I was quoted £350 odd plus VAT from VW for the adjuster. Thankfully I have had no issues with timing so far fingers crossed I don't muller it removing the bolt - if the bolt is in ok nick probably be ok and if drilling will have to be very careful not to damage the unit :scared:
Post by: Pesky jones on May 09, 2017, 02:34:54 pm
Post by: mayesj86 on May 09, 2017, 04:30:57 pm
Also for metal swarf from drilling. Get some magnets?
Thankfully I have ordered some already was worried about the swarf getting into the engine didn't think about the adjuster.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 13, 2017, 12:27:15 pm
Post by: pudding on May 13, 2017, 04:32:01 pm
Good luck with it fella, keep us posted.
Post by: mayesj86 on May 13, 2017, 06:36:28 pm
Will call VW on Monday morning and get the VVT unit ordered in.
Does anyone know the part number off hand?
Post by: doylebros on May 13, 2017, 09:39:31 pm
After some hard fight and 4 cobalt drills later the bolt has been removed. It is one hell of a strong bolt. Massive downside is the VVT has damage from whatever the garage - huge gouges out of it assuming where the socket slipped when stripping the bolt and there was a hell of alot of swarf kicking about with the drilling. Used magnets but I really don't want to risk it just in case.
Will call VW on Monday morning and get the VVT unit ordered in.
Does anyone know the part number off hand?
Item 6 http://www.oemepc.com/vw/part_single/catalog/vw/markt/RDW/modell/GOLF/year/2007/drive_standart/474/hg_ug/109/subcategory/109015/part_id/3708479/lang/e
Match to your engine code.
Post by: Pesky jones on May 14, 2017, 11:41:38 pm
Post by: mayesj86 on May 15, 2017, 07:48:28 am
That's a shame, sorry to hear. Probably for the best to fit a new adjuster considering. Hope it goes well from here
Thanks buddy was a very long frustrating day on Saturday but its off now. For the sake of a few ££ and piece of mind Im just going to change the unit to be safe.
Pic of bolt after a long day at it :mad:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fp364%2Fmayesj86mayesj86%2Fcam_bolt_zpsmuvlgpb2.jpg&hash=74e039b6bf43f6e47fa69bc680816b8c4c87f303)
Post by: mayesj86 on May 15, 2017, 07:50:25 am
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fp364%2Fmayesj86mayesj86%2Fcam_chain_zpsxyun6tx6.jpg&hash=3ec3ddcfb640c0c5d7cd5c9b99567f8051d59dac)
Post by: neilw on May 15, 2017, 12:10:49 pm
Out of interest and hopefully I'll never have to do it, how do you go about drilling the bolt out?
Post by: mayesj86 on May 15, 2017, 01:04:41 pm
Well Done, I would of had a mental breakdown by now if this was me!
Out of interest and hopefully I'll never have to do it, how do you go about drilling the bolt out?
I was close to have a mental break down the bolt is made of some really hard material :doh:. Thankfully Rich write up tells you to remove the battery tray which gives you just enough room to get a drill and the bit in.
I measured the head depth on the new bolt I have to avoid any excess drilling, centre dapped the bolt in the adjuster and started with a wee drill 5mm and worked my way up to a 13mm drill bit. The wee ones went through not too bad but the 12 and 13mm drills were a nightmare. I got most of the way through the head into the bolt shaft and the force holding the bolt in snapped the rest for me. It goes with one hell of a bang and jumps off the cam. Make sure you have your timing marks on the adjuster before starting :thinking:
I had the adjuster well covered and magnets all over the place to catch the swarf but it goes everywhere no matter how hard you try. Main reason im changing the adjuster don't want to risk putting it back together and find its now gubbed and transferred swarf into the bottom end.
I will say that there is a huge amount of heat generated doing this even with a cooling and lubricating fluid being drenched all over it. I'm glad I did it myself for piece of mind and my trust in "garages" has now totally disappeared.
I'm not going to lie it was an absolute pig of a job but very satisfying once it came off.
Part will be here tomorrow afternoon. Have taken Wednesday off work to finish the rebuild.
Post by: Juliand on May 15, 2017, 05:05:19 pm
Glad you're on your way to having it sorted. Have been reading this with much interest. A definite pat on the back. I couldn't do it. You've been so messed about, but great help on hand here - some really knowledgeable people. Big respect to you all :drinking:
Post by: Pesky jones on May 15, 2017, 06:22:03 pm
*24kw specified adjustment for AXX engine code. +/-1kw for actual so 23 to 25kw
Post by: mayesj86 on May 16, 2017, 07:31:15 am
:congrats: :notworthy:
Glad you're on your way to having it sorted. Have been reading this with much interest. A definite pat on the back. I couldn't do it. You've been so messed about, but great help on hand here - some really knowledgeable people. Big respect to you all :drinking:
Thanks very much buddy.
Broke the back of the job now. I really should have done it myself in the first place but hindsight is a wonderful thing :thinking:.
The guys and girls on here are brilliant and very helpful I would have been up a creek without a paddle without them all so big thanks to everyone who has advised and passed on their knowledge :happy2:
Post by: mayesj86 on May 16, 2017, 07:34:05 am
Good stuff. If you have or have access to VCDS you can check the timing once you've put it back together. Engine measuring blocks, either block 90 or 91 will tell you your specified and actual exhaust cam adjustment. Your specified should be 28kw* and your actual wants to be + or - 1kw of the specified so between 27kw and 29kw. The number will fluctuate slightly, measure once warm and idling for five minutes.
*24kw specified adjustment for AXX engine code. +/-1kw for actual so 23 to 25kw
I don't have access to VSDS yet its on my "to buy list" as I cant see me ever getting rid of the Eddie I love the car.
Would it be worth putting a wee post up asking anyone in my area if they would be available to have a scan once its all back together?
Thanks very much for the info and advice its very much appreciated :happy2: :smiley:
Post by: Pesky jones on May 16, 2017, 09:17:46 am
Post by: Craig Stanley on May 16, 2017, 11:00:06 am
:congrats: :notworthy:2nd that.
Glad you're on your way to having it sorted. Have been reading this with much interest. A definite pat on the back. I couldn't do it. You've been so messed about, but great help on hand here - some really knowledgeable people. Big respect to you all :drinking:
Sent from my ZTE B2017G using Tapatalk
Post by: mayesj86 on May 16, 2017, 01:41:49 pm
Very much so! There is a VCDS register in the forum. Also might be worth puting a post up on TFSI tuning on facebook if you're on there. Although, If you put it back together, drive it, and it all performs normally then you can probably rest assured that its timed correctly. Its only if it idles strangely etc that you might want to check the timing
I will have a wee look at the list of members in the area that have VCDS. I will join the Facebook group too.
I'm still worried about getting the timing bit wrong but I have followed everything to almost the letter and added so many timing marks on various bits to aid in the refit. Will have to try transfer the marks onto the new adjuster correctly tonight. New part arrived this morning cant fault VW at all. Ordered at 8.30am yesterday and had a message saying it had arrived at 8.15 this morning.
Thanks again for all the advice!! :smiley: :happy2:
Post by: mayesj86 on May 18, 2017, 09:30:36 am
All in all I'm a happy boy......until the next issue :signLOL:
Thank you to everyone for their advice and guidance without it I would have been in real trouble. Thanks to @rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) for the cracking chain replacement write up, without that would have been up a creek without a paddle.
Thanks again to everyone this really is the best forum and nicest knowledgeable members I have been a part of!!
Cheers
Jason
Post by: MIJ_JAGGER on May 18, 2017, 09:37:56 am
Post by: Juliand on May 19, 2017, 08:43:28 am
Im happy to report the car is now back together and running ok. I didn't realise how smooth and silent these engines are supposed to run the chain was a lot worse than I though it was. Even driving is so much smoother. I must admit I've never felt nerves like that about starting a car before :scared: :signLOL:
All in all I'm a happy boy......until the next issue :signLOL:
Thank you to everyone for their advice and guidance without it I would have been in real trouble. Thanks to @rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) for the cracking chain replacement write up, without that would have been up a creek without a paddle.
Thanks again to everyone this really is the best forum and nicest knowledgeable members I have been a part of!!
Cheers
Jason
Fantastic. So, has it eliminated that nasty diesel clatter on warm tickover? Mine does have a slight tapping, but someone said that it could just be the injectors / fuel pump. My car on nearly 37,000 miles. So, interested to hear what noises you have on tickever, please.
Cheers
Post by: mayesj86 on May 19, 2017, 09:31:40 am
Im happy to report the car is now back together and running ok. I didn't realise how smooth and silent these engines are supposed to run the chain was a lot worse than I though it was. Even driving is so much smoother. I must admit I've never felt nerves like that about starting a car before :scared: :signLOL:
All in all I'm a happy boy......until the next issue :signLOL:
Thank you to everyone for their advice and guidance without it I would have been in real trouble. Thanks to @rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) for the cracking chain replacement write up, without that would have been up a creek without a paddle.
Thanks again to everyone this really is the best forum and nicest knowledgeable members I have been a part of!!
Cheers
Jason
Fantastic. So, has it eliminated that nasty diesel clatter on warm tickover? Mine does have a slight tapping, but someone said that it could just be the injectors / fuel pump. My car on nearly 37,000 miles. So, interested to hear what noises you have on tickever, please.
Cheers
The diesel rattle im happy to report has completely disappeared. Car runs so much smoother and quite. Now I'm just getting used to the new noises that I can hear now the diesel noise has gone....cooling fan being one :signLOL:
The chain itself looked perfect but there was a lot of sideways movement in the roller links and the tensioner was well worn. My VVT unit was damaged by previous garages attempts at removing cam bolt and the drive gear on it was fairly worn on closer inspection. That's the really expensive part at £433 :sick:
From what I have been reading and info out there the milage doesn't seem to matter with the chain some sound like a diesel and others have nothing.
Hope that helps buddy.
Post by: Juliand on May 20, 2017, 01:01:01 pm
Post by: barelyrelevant on May 23, 2017, 05:47:04 pm