MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: jacobrownoly on July 29, 2017, 03:29:02 pm
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Hello all,
Bad day today for the car. Have been meaning to change the cam follower for a while now and today was the day the car went into limp mode and the whole face of the cam follower is gone (after investigating). 25k miles on a new cam with stage 2+ (I know, I know I should of checked sooner and has been an expensive lesson to learn :sad1:)
The car is stage 2+ and running the auto tech HPFP.
So I know I have cam and pump failure but my main concern is the cam shaft seemed to have slight markings on it. It doesn't look too bad but should I be concerned?? :thinking:
My plan now is to buy a new HPFP (auto tech £400) and fit a new cam follower. As I said the cam shaft looked a little marked but the plan will be to fit new pump and cam follower check after 3k-5k miles and see if the new cam follower is worn excess. If it is too worn at those miles its clearly a cam shaft problem (big money) :doh:
Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Jack
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You were "lucky" to have gotten 25k on a CF after upgrading the HPFP. Most having done that only get 10k to 15k/CF. Yes, you should've replaced the CF at 10k miles the first time...which was hopefully a brand new CF at time of HPFP-upgrade. When my HPFP was upgraded, I let my VW tech do it at the same time he installed my K04, injectors, FMIC, exhaust, and all else. I thought he installed a new CF and expected to check the CF after 10k miles. But he reinstalled the old CF that had 58k miles on it. After 5800 miles the same thing happened to me. I was lucky that I let my VW tech do all of my installs and they covered it all with the warranty, but the bill would've been between $2k and $3k usd.
If the intake cam's hpfp lobe doesn't look like it has a mirror finish and flawless surface...I suggest replacing it to get the most out of your future CF's. I know some just leave it alone but you will not get the full CF life from now on unless you change the intake cam. Mine used to wear the black off the CF-face, and deform its flat surface, after just 10k miles and now it's getting closer to lasting up to 15k miles. The HPFP upgrade means you have to be religious about CF attention.
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Not good, probably not helped know you should have checked it. If you were to just fit new pump and follower would check it sooner than 3k.
Out of interest have you done any oil changes in the 25k?
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Not good, probably not helped know you should have checked it. If you were to just fit new pump and follower would check it sooner than 3k.
Out of interest have you done any oil changes in the 25k?
I have changed the oil 3 times within that time.
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Mate that cam is scrap... It needs changing, along with the pump, dropping the sump to drain the oil, flushing the engine to try and remove all of the swarf that you can etc etc
You just change the pump and you'll eat followers every couple hundred miles and be in this position again in no time
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Mate that cam is scrap... It needs changing, along with the pump, dropping the sump to drain the oil, flushing the engine to try and remove all of the swarf that you can etc etc
You just change the pump and you'll eat followers every couple hundred miles and be in this position again in no time
Ok thanks, new cam shaft, how much ??
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That's bad news jack :sick: the cam followers need checking/replacing every 3,000 or so for peace of mind/wear rate.... new cam shafts are roughly £250-350 plus labour or maybe look into a engine change....
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That's bad news jack :sick: the cam followers need checking/replacing every 3,000 or so for peace of mind/wear rate.... new cam shafts are roughly £250-350 plus labour or maybe look into a engine change....
Yeah bad news josh and a lesson learned. £250-£350 is not too bad, I get labour for free as my dad is a mechanic :jumpmove:
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So spoke with the old man this morning and we are going to replace the whole lot (cam f, new pump and the shaft) (expense lesson to learn I know)
Any advice on what I should be going for/looking out for when changing the cam shaft? Don't really plan on taking the car further in terms of power, have always considered the ko4 upgrade but not sure yet.
Thanks
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New cam chain/tensioner/adjuster
Full engine flush also be sure to check the oil ways from the head into the cam chain housing for metal bits
Sump off/change Oil pick up pipe... new oil/filter
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Sorry to hear about your engine :sad1: If it helps I ran the same cam follower for over 30K miles (with regular inspections) with an uprated autotech fuel pump with absolutely no problems at all. I was running Millers nanotech oil which is better at handling the higher surface contact pressures that are exhibited when using the uprated fuel pumps. The standard oil specified by VW will not take into account these higher contact pressures over the standard engine that we introduce once we go putting uprated fuel pumps in. Most people here with Autotech and other uprated fuel pumps are running the oil outside of it's original specified operating parameters and asking for problems down the line. I can't remember the numbers but if I recall correctly the contact pressure between the follower and cam is significantly increased with the uprated pump.
Although more expensive at servicing time my advice and that of one or two reputable tuning companies on here would be once your all fixed up to always run a more capable oil on a tuned vehicle:happy2:
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Really feel for you here as im in the same situation, and only had my car over a month. When did you last replace the cambelt? It might be worth changing that too while everythings apart. Absolutely sucks i know, id just change the whole lot with an engine flush - you also need specialist tools for this job for the camshaft removal. Its mad that such a small, cheap part can cause so much damage.
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Update: So at the minute the car is in bits, I have a new camshaft, HPFP pump and all the tools needed for the job.
We are doing the timing belt at the same time (total pain of a job)
When changing the belt it seemed like the whole thing was ONE tooth out :confused:
My dad (fully qualified and experience mechanic) noticed it was out and claimed that the car should run a lot better when its corrected (Even though it made 280bhp and drives really well :confused:
My question is : If the timing belt is corrected how will this effect my tune (Revo stage 2+) in terms of timing ect ?? What should I be looking to data log once the car is up and running again.
Cheers,
Jack
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Bump :popcornsoda:
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Shouldn't affect anything.
When it's all buttoned back up, check these channels in VCDS.
91 - Cam adjustment actual - 28kw
92 - Cam adjustment specified - 28kw
93 - Cam phase angle - 1kw
If you see those numbers with the engine running, all is good :happy2:
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As above, check the 90's to make sure the cam timing is actually correct.... So many people put them back together a tooth out
In terms of Revo settings and checking for timing pull, check the CF (block 20ish from memory) under repeated full throttle runs once the car is properly warm.... Revo have a guide on what to log and when to adjust the settings.
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Shouldn't affect anything.
When it's all buttoned back up, check these channels in VCDS.
91 - Cam adjustment actual - 28kw
92 - Cam adjustment specified - 28kw
93 - Cam phase angle - 1kw
If you see those numbers with the engine running, all is good :happy2:
Are these to be logged or just to show up when the car is at idle?
Thanks
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Just need to be checked at idle once engine fully up to temperature
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Yep, as Dan said.
You can also log 91 & 92 just to make sure actual and specified track each other, which is a good sign everything has gone back to together perfectly.
The 3 plastic oil control rings for the VVT adjuster (on the shaft inside the chain cover) are very fragile after years of heat cycling and oil bathing. Snap one refitting the cover and you'll get a "Cam phase adjuster - slow response" type error and it will feel a bit flat to drive. I would replace the rings mate. AKS Tuning sell them. New ones are considerably more flexible and easier to fit.