MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: djhorace on March 22, 2010, 10:00:20 pm
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I have solid information that 2 piece discs are being developed at the moment, and they will be available by the end of April approximately.
Estimated weight saving of 40% per front disc and much better ability to reduce temperature build up than standard discs. Should be a good modification to the already decent standard front brake set up.
The supplier will also be interested in a group buy for these once they are ready. I am awaiting details in the near future and will post them as I get them.
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Sounds interesting :happy2:
Something i've been looking into for a while, a lead on some ATE ones unfortunately turned up a blank as they only produce MK4 Golf ones, only ones i've found so far are CTF's 'Composito' range at roughly 700Euro for a pair..
http://www.centertecnofreno.it
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Interested! :happy2:
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ooo Im very interested too :happy2:
out of interest, any considerations to std/cross drilled or grooved options?
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Very interested also :popcornsoda:
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Who is the producer and does anyone know an approximate price ?
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Sounds very interesting and I'd be up for a set myself......but did we not dance this waltz before and come to the conclusion that putting expensive discs on heavy OEM iron calipers wasn't the way forward.
Honestly no axe to grind but with OEM solids being very afordable and if the zimmerman Mk4 R32 discs with the rough same sizes and technology for comparison being £320 I'm going to ask the question - is this the best place for the money to go??
If they come in really affordably - count me in, if the whole setup starts to get towards £6-700 with calipers/pads/2 piece discs it makes the B5 RS4 setup like TC's look like bloody good value on a bigger OEM discs and two piston calipers...... and for a little more a DIY 996 Turbo setup and for a little more ......and for a little more...and for a little more
Discuss............
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i agree with dave, i took the oam calipers off the other day and couldnt beleive how much they weighed, they were heavier than rs4 8pot calipers, the up side is that the oem discs are a fair bit lighter than the rs6 discs so works out to be pretty much even in weight. if the discs come in at less than 3-400 pounds then its a good value upgrade but any more than that then other routes must be more worth a look at...
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Very very interested too :smiley:
Options for slotted / drilled / plain / bell colour ?.
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Price is £400 a set, and if we can get a sale of ten, this will be discounted by 25% per set. Not sure yet if this includes VAT and delivery, but I will aim for that if possible.
As it happens the brakes are now available so details to follow soon.
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for 2 fonts i take it? including pads? how much will a replacment disc be though? what about and special brakets / fixings?
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Some info here - http://www.compbrake.co.uk/
Details to follow.
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Got me interested............money waiting.
If bells are only blue then i'll have to get them re anodised :laugh:
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Can they do matching rear vented 310 x 22 discs for the S3?.
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+1 for the rears
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Price is £400 a set, and if we can get a sale of ten, this will be discounted by 25% per set. Not sure yet if this includes VAT and delivery, but I will aim for that if possible.
As it happens the brakes are now available so details to follow soon.
At that price count me out - you can get 360mm B5 RS4 discs for 360 with VAT and thats OEM quality with ground not turned friction faces, thats a lot of money to shell out for 2-3KG Saving whilst still using iron calipers. Just buy the S3 lower arms and buy them once.
I could warp three sets of solid discs and still be in front.
Having said that etto and all the best with it
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Wow, took a look at their gear and the most expensive calipers are 480 ??? A complete kit for 800 ? This is 1/3 of the competition's price. Anybody care to explain ?
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true, might be worth someone being a guinnie pig first and doing a review on them over a month or so? just a thought
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Before we get giddy - could somebody weigh them or find out what they weigh?
There are many various grades of rotors available. Consider Mike Robert's Alcons glowing red hot F1 style when snapped at Oulton park and him driving to work on them the following day and then consider if you'll be able to to do something similar with a two hundred quid pair of rotors (Bells are more or less universally 100-150 quid to manufacture) AP Racing bolt kits are 40 quid for the pair for a reason....... for floating bobbin kits you can double that.
Quality costs
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Before we get giddy - could somebody weigh them or find out what they weigh?
There are many various grades of rotors available. Consider Mike Robert's Alcons glowing red hot F1 style when snapped at Oulton park and him driving to work on them the following day and then consider if you'll be able to to do something similar with a two hundred quid pair of rotors (Bells are more or less universally 100-150 quid to manufacture) AP Racing bolt kits are 40 quid for the pair for a reason....... for floating bobbin kits you can double that.
Quality costs
As I said before details to follow :happy2:
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Unless they're fully floating discs, I wouldn't bother.
Because of the way Alcon's bobbins are designed, I can see from the marks they leave in the bells' powder coating the discs grow by 4-6mm in diameter when hot. It's because of the floating technology and quality of materials, they don't do what is pictured below.... which will happen to non floating or crap discs if you hammer them on track.
If you just want them for the road, ask yourself why you need them??
Saving weight. Do the wishbones/hubs instead as these are permanent.
Asthetics. Rotors that look nice costing say £300 each time they need replacing (which may be more often than you account for, if the grade of metal is poor) doesn't make sense.
Performance. You'll see no benefit. Pads, fluid and the clamping force of the caliper are the variables to play with. Get some really hard pads and just accept you'll be ruining £80 OEM discs twice as often, or invest your £400 in some decent calipers which again are permanent.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy242%2Fnamelom%2Fedimg8865cz4.jpg&hash=12ea834f989af15c9edbc33478375a3ce614f09b)
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Unless they're fully floating discs, I wouldn't bother.
Because of the way Alcon's bobbins are designed, I can see from the marks they leave in the bells' powder coating the discs grow by 4-6mm in diameter when hot. It's because of the floating technology and quality of materials, they don't do what is pictured below.... which will happen to non floating or crap discs if you hammer them on track.
If you just want them for the road, ask yourself why you need them??
Saving weight. Do the wishbones/hubs instead as these are permanent.
Asthetics. Rotors that look nice costing say £300 each time they need replacing (which may be more often than you account for, if the grade of metal is poor) doesn't make sense.
Performance. You'll see no benefit. Pads, fluid and the clamping force of the caliper are the variables to play with. Get some really hard pads and just accept you'll be ruining £80 OEM discs twice as often, or invest your £400 in some decent calipers which again are permanent.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy242%2Fnamelom%2Fedimg8865cz4.jpg&hash=12ea834f989af15c9edbc33478375a3ce614f09b)
Couldn't have put it better myself :happy2:
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Each to their own. You could replace OEM discs every time they have issues, and as mentioned above, it would probably cost more than discs for a 2 piece set seeing how you only need the bell one time, and the OEM disc till be heavier and more prone to warping due to being less able to get rid of the build up of heat.
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Each to their own. You could replace OEM discs every time they have issues, and as mentioned above, it would probably cost more than discs for a 2 piece set seeing how you only need the bell one time, and the OEM disc till be heavier and more prone to warping due to being less able to get rid of the build up of heat.
I'm still interested, any update on details / pics etc. ?.
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Discs don't warp. People melt pads onto discs, high spots build up and cause vibrations.
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Each to their own. You could replace OEM discs every time they have issues, and as mentioned above, it would probably cost more than discs for a 2 piece set seeing how you only need the bell one time, and the OEM disc till be heavier and more prone to warping due to being less able to get rid of the build up of heat.
I'm still interested, any update on details / pics etc. ?.
Details to follow :smiley:
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Sorry for the delay in this folks.
OK, so here are the details.
The 345mm 2 piece disc will in fact be designed and made in the next month or so.
Typical weight savings. Standard discs that size usually weigh in at about 12kg maybe a bit more and thats per disc.
A rotor that size will weigh 6.4kg and the bell well at the most 1kg. So if we over estimate and say 8kg which it will be lighter than that we would be saing 4kg at least per corner. Thats 8kg+ just on the discs.
The Powervane racing rotor has had many tests and has been proven to run cooler and produce outstanding braking performance when compared to other makes.
One example is on the Seat Leon Cupra R MK1 with the Brembo kit. Customers with these have said on a track day there is so much heat with the standard Discs that touching the wheel after being out is impossible. However when they fitted the 2 piece Disc conversion they stated that touching the wheel was possible and that the temperature of the wheel was massively reduced.
The cooling properties of the Rotors are from a Combination of the internal veins being the correct size and being at the optimum angle to produce the maximum amount of air flow and the composit material used in the Rotor Manufacturing.
On Group buys of 5 pairs discount level will be 10%
On Group buys of 10 or more discount level will be 25%
List price for the kit is £400, so if we can get 10 people interested, these will be available for £300 per kit. The kit is basically everything needed to replace the standard front brake discs to a lighter 2 piece kit.
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Great news, i'm in.
Can you spec plain discs ( non grooved ) and do you get a choice of bell colour?.
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Just a quick note for people interested in these discs, the same company making these will have a MK5 4 and 6 pot kit available for around £900 very soon.
Just to bring up something DaveB said, quality costs and these brakes dont. I used to sell these kits, not any more. Anyone can give a disc a fancy name , cut some grooves into them and add a shiny alloy bell. I am not saying that people shouldnt buy them and they will crack etc...
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Discs don't warp. People melt pads onto discs, high spots build up and cause vibrations.
I have about 30 warped discs round the back of the unit. cheap discs can easily warp, especially EBC turbogrooved discs, even when checked with a runout gauge you can sometimes get up to 1mm of deflection on a warped disc.
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Just a quick note for people interested in these discs, the same company making these will have a MK5 4 and 6 pot kit available for around £900 very soon.
Just to bring up something DaveB said, quality costs and these brakes dont. I used to sell these kits, not any more. Anyone can give a disc a fancy name , cut some grooves into them and add a shiny alloy bell. I am not saying that people shouldnt buy them and they will crack etc...
So reading between the lines, are you saying these brakes which are yet to be made, are crap?
In answer to the question above, bells are black, and the discs are all going to be grooved.
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I am not sure if their brake kits have changed in the last 18 months but I had endless problems with them as they raraely fitted proper dust seals around the pistons.
I used to use them on mainly track/race cars so road use wasn't ever an issue but we would need to regularly have to strip and clean them when used hard with dusty pads.
For a budget non OE kit also take a look at Hispec brakes. I have owned and fitted many sets over the years and they are a good kit, best kit I ever fitted to my track car: http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Conversions/VW/Golf%20Mk5%20360%20Mon.htm
Hispec would be a much bigger brand if they sorted their shocking customer service and treated their dealers a bit better.
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So the issue is with the brakes and not the discs which this thread is about then? If you supply brakes yourself, why havent you done something a long time before now to have a 2 piece disc option available to those who feel the OEM brakes are up to the job, but want to reduce rolling mass and heat build up when braking? Or is this a scare tactic to delay people getting something you have missed the boat on?
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:popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:
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So the issue is with the brakes and not the discs which this thread is about then?
As I said above, you get what you pay for. Just making sure people are aware that for £400 for 2 discs there are far better options available. I sold a LOT of these brakes once upon a time, I also replaced a lot. speak to people that have fitted them and get their opinions before buying them, like this lot did: http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=c26e7f4943f6faea8a7c3aa21edcb5f1&t=299104
If you supply brakes yourself, why havent you done something a long time before now to have a 2 piece disc option available to those who feel the OEM brakes are up to the job, but want to reduce rolling mass and heat build up when braking? Or is this a scare tactic to delay people getting something you have missed the boat on?
I have no plans to design or sell any 2 piece discs, never have and probably never will. Just wantewd to give members on the side a quick 'heads up' on what to expect for their £400 before they parted with what is a lot of money for a brake disc.
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Just playing Devils advocate here DJ, but are you defending them so rigorously in spite of everyone the length and breadth of the UK knowing they're sh*te because you have a vested interest in this GB going ahead.... something (and I'm pulling this out of the sky) like maybe you're getting a free set of discs out of it?
I've been around a long time, I know how GBs sometimes work.
Only fair if you're throwing accusations at PDT.
:popcornsoda:
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I wont be getting anything for free mate. I am merely wanting a decent priced pair of discs and would only get the same price as everyone else in the group buy.
You can actually buy 345mm 2 piece kits from AP Racing now at near £800, so I am also very aware of other options, but there are no reports about them as nobody I know of has installed them, so who knows if they are good bad or indifferent.
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If you are happy to spend 3-400 on the compbrake rotors, then the AP ones (on the basis that they will last you twice as long appear good value). I get a good deal at AP if you are entertaining them I'd happily pass them along at what they cost me for you to have a try just let me have the part numbers
Other than that all the best with your plans
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If you are happy to spend 3-400 on the compbrake rotors, then the AP ones (on the basis that they will last you twice as long appear good value). I get a good deal at AP if you are entertaining them I'd happily pass them along at what they cost me for you to have a try just let me have the part numbers
Other than that all the best with your plans
Dave,
Believe this is the disc / bell kit no. for the MK5 platform. Be interested in prices with a decent road pad.
CP6890-001MNP.G8
(kit does not include brake pads)
Model Type & Year 2005 on
Disc Diameter & thickness (mm) Ø345 x 30
Disc Face Types Available G8 = 8 straight grooves per face
Brake Pads Included No
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PM Sent - Much better Value.....1 only in stock in the UK
Can still think of better ways to save 3-5kg per corner
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Believe this is the disc / bell kit no. for the MK5 platform. Be interested in prices with a decent road pad.
CP6890-001MNP.G8
(kit does not include brake pads)
Model Type & Year 2005 on
Disc Diameter & thickness (mm) Ø345 x 30
Disc Face Types Available G8 = 8 straight grooves per face
Brake Pads Included No
Anyone fitted these AP rotors?
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After reading a couple of threads on the MLR I wouldn't touch that company with a bargepole.They could be the best discs in the world but a company in this business lives and dies on its customer service and reputation.
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Anyone know about this?
http://www.racingbrake.com/Open_Slot_VW_MK5_R32_PASSAT_Exc_Syncro_FRONT_p/2171.htm
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Anyone know about this?
http://www.racingbrake.com/Open_Slot_VW_MK5_R32_PASSAT_Exc_Syncro_FRONT_p/2171.htm
Quite expensive i would say
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I'd never fit (chinese ?? ) crap like that on this topic to my car. :fighting:
Racingbrake seems to be better, but I don't trust "open slots" and for this money
there's stuff from much more reputable companies on the market:
That's why I asked for the AP Racing kit.
http://www.apracing.com/products/road_car_upgrades/oe_replacement_disc_kits/strap_drive_kits_and_system.aspx
AP is highly regarded in motorsports. Even Volkswagen motorsport runs AP calipers
and discs (with Endless MA45B pads) on their 24h Nürburgring GTI 2.5 TFSI race car:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Fdirect%2Fi_14_514_0_61_1335788458_2594.jpg&hash=891009747e97d03a8392083261732a69ec3e5429)
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the Cost of those AP racing disc assemblies for the R32/S3 was the seed that became the NQSBBK.
Don't expect any change out of £750, with AP Racing its all about volume. Ready assembled disc assemblies carry the LEAST amount of margin for dealers hence nobody stocks them and AP doesn't bother stocking them either.
Last time I asked there was one set on the planet and they'd only ever sold 3 sets in 5 years
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Last time I asked there was one set on the planet and they'd only ever sold 3 sets in 5 years
this is called exclusivity, Dave :evilgrin:
I personally will never "upgrade" to the heavy S3 brake.