MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: smilespergallon on February 04, 2023, 07:44:50 pm
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I've got a 15-year old Edition 30. I've finished changing the fluids, filters, spark plugs, and diverter valve. The car is running noticeably smoother and perceptibly faster.
Where would you recommend I should look for improving the handling? I'm not looking to turn it in to a track car or anything. It's my daily and I just want to tighten things up and try and get the car back up to it's former glory.
I'm a beginner when it comes to working on the car as well, so ideally I'd like to be able to do these things myself.
I've heard that the bushes might be the best bang-for-buck when it comes to improving handling. If that's the case, what kind of bushes would you recommend (I've heard SuperPro are good) and which bushes on the car should I be looking to replace first? There seem to be a lot of different bushes in different places.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
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Front and rear drop links as well as rear anti roll bar bushes are all easy.
The rest do require you to do a bit more work (removing arms, front subframe) and may need geometry afterwards.
Front control arm bushes can also make a big difference if yours are original, just a bit more work and you risk snapping subframe bolts. Just remember that getting geometry done is important so you may want to bite the bullet and do more in one go.
How are your shocks and springs? Did you say standard? Replacing rear shocks and springs is really easy. I replaced with OE spec Sachs parts, if doing again I would look at the uprated but still OE height Bilsteins shocks. I’m not keen on lowered suspension for a daily. If your shocks are original or more than a few years old, don’t be surprised to find that they are blown (front and rear).
I went original specification bushes (either VW or good supplier like Lemforder), with Powerflex for the front and rear anti roll bars. This was to increase roll stiffness without lowering height (aftermarket bars would also have done that, this was a step in between).
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Thank you so much, this is really helpful.
Front and rear drop links as well as rear anti roll bar bushes are all easy.
Thanks, this sounds like a good place to start.
The rest do require you to do a bit more work (removing arms, front subframe) and may need geometry afterwards.
Front control arm bushes can also make a big difference if yours are original, just a bit more work and you risk snapping subframe bolts. Just remember that getting geometry done is important so you may want to bite the bullet and do more in one go.
When you say do more in one go, which bushes other than the front control arm should I be looking at changing at the same time?
Sorry for all the questions, I'm new to the underside of the car and the locations of the bushes.
How are your shocks and springs? Did you say standard? Replacing rear shocks and springs is really easy. I replaced with OE spec Sachs parts, if doing again I would look at the uprated but still OE height Bilsteins shocks. I’m not keen on lowered suspension for a daily. If your shocks are original or more than a few years old, don’t be surprised to find that they are blown (front and rear).
Yes they're standard. This sounds like a good next step after the front+rear drop links and rear anti roll bar bushes. Appreciate the recommendation on the Bilsteins.
Would it be beneficial to replace front shocks+springs too, but as a beginner it's easier to start with replacing the rear ones?
I went original specification bushes (either VW or good supplier like Lemforder), with Powerflex for the front and rear anti roll bars. This was to increase roll stiffness without lowering height (aftermarket bars would also have done that, this was a step in between).
Thanks.
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Shocks and springs will be tired/dead (my shockd were dead and the springs were all mixed makes due to them breaking), bushes, drop links and ball joints also being tired and is where I attacked mine initially.
Fitted Bilstein shocks and Eibach sportline springs.......stance is perfect for me as a family/daily
The car felt very fresh after and still does, as I do not drive many miles since covid and hybrid working.
Still working through bushes as there are loads on the rear, and have a lack of spare time.
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I upgraded the dog-bone mount, sub-frame bush & installed an anti-lift kit on my Edition 30 and it really improved the handling. The dog-bone mount and bush reduces the engine / gearbox movement and sharpens up responses. The anti-lift kit made a noticeable improvement to steering feel. Coupled with upgraded front sub-frame bolt & locking kit + wheel alignment the car felt transformed (although most of the above needs a garage to do the work unless you are feeling particularly confident!)
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Thank you everyone. I had no idea where to start with this, and I was overwhelmed with all the different parts and manufacturers, so this has been super helpful.
My rough plan is:
1. Start with the front and rear drop links. Apparently OE parts are best for this, but I didn't fancy going to VW for them. After some research (thanks to a post by Pudding https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,132049.msg1150843.html#msg1150843 (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,132049.msg1150843.html#msg1150843)) it seems that Lemfoerder make the heavy metal parts for VW including drop links. So if you go on the Lemfoerder website you can enter your reg to find the part numbers, then you can use those part numbers to buy them from somewhere like eBay. I actually found them on AutoDoc for roughly £20 for each drop link, so that's going to be £80 in total to replace all the drop links.
2. While I'm doing the drop links I'll change the anti roll bar bushes. I'm going to push the boat out and try SuperPro for these. I'm getting them on eBay, £50 for both rears and £50 for both fronts, so £100 in total. Seems expensive, but hopefully they're worth it.
3. Next I'll look at doing the springs and shock absorbers. Seems like Bilstein is unanimously the best. I'll probably just close my eyes and click the buy button when it comes the time. Unless there's some other alternative I've missed. We'll see. Anyway, will start at the back, and maybe I could do the front myself.
4. Beyond that I'll look in to other bushes and the other parts mentioned in this thread. Thank you for all the suggestions. Probably stick with Lemfoerder for the other bushes if I do them. I don't think my wallet could keep up with a SuperPro habit.
Some other threads that were helpful:
https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,113824.msg1091293.html
https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,133285.0.html
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Make sure you are getting the right Bilsteins. You want uprated but standard height. Also, any change of shocks and springs is an opportunity to do top mounts and bump stops.
The front shocks are harder and you need to be safe if you haven’t worked with springs before. Despite having used spring compressors lots of times I generally recommend a garage if unsure.
Front roll bar bushes are hard because you need to drop the subframe. I wouldn’t bother until that needs to be done. Possibly because you snapped a subframe bolt, ask me how I know.
On geometry… the point is that you need to get it done really whenever you make changes to the chassis. If you do a lot of work in one go you can do the geometry at the same time.
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Front roll bar bushes are hard because you need to drop the subframe. I wouldn’t bother until that needs to be done. Possibly because you snapped a subframe bolt, ask me how I know.
Ha okay thank you. I just ordered the rear bushes and will leave the front for now.
Make sure you are getting the right Bilsteins. You want uprated but standard height. Also, any change of shocks and springs is an opportunity to do top mounts and bump stops.
Thanks, didn't consider the top mounts and bump stops.
I've looked on AutoDoc and these are the Bilsteins that are available:
Front Shock Absorbers: B4 OE Replacement 22-140012 Shock Absorber (https://www.autodoc.co.uk/bilstein/632164)
Front Springs: B3 OE Replacement 37-148126 Coil Spring (https://www.autodoc.co.uk/bilstein/638432)
Rear Shock Absorbers: B4 OE Replacement 19-140025 Shock Absorber (https://www.autodoc.co.uk/bilstein/638649)
Rear Springs: B3 OE Replacement 36-148134 Coil Spring (https://www.autodoc.co.uk/bilstein/636683)
Do those look suitable for daily driving?
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I use the B4's and eibach sportline for daily and they are great. Top mounts, bump stops etc should be standard with replacing and refreshing suspension......as everything will be worn out when approaching 100K miles and the car being 15+ years old
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Looks at doing shock and springs too, the b4s are surprisingly reasonably priced, what other parts are needed when swapping these? Mounts bump stops et
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Front and rear drop links (my rears had to be cut off and fronts were worn)
Top mount bolts as they are stretch one time use supposedly like most bolts on a VW group car
I also replaced the wishbone ball joints for peace of mind and the bolts that pinch the strut to the hub as mine were rusty as hell.
Also look at the rear trailing arm bushes....mine were dead and made the rear end very twitchy until replaced
Mine looked like this and explained a lot.......but passed an MOT fine prior to changing:
(https://i.postimg.cc/85d8Md7q/20220425-103451.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
then poly bushed them
(https://i.postimg.cc/RFByS3gG/51-HEKL4v-EUL-AC-SX425.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I read the following as B4 shocks good B6 better for standard height springs:
https://www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk/blogs/news/18419865-how-to-choose-the-correct-bilstein-shock-absorber
I probably would have bought B6 shocks.
Looks like B3 OE spec springs, B4 slightly stiffer, not clear if B4 is shorter.
Knowing whether you want standard or lower ride height is a big part of the decision.
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Lots of people fit lowering springs with standard height shocks. I personally would not do that because the risk of shock failure is much higher. My car came with OE spec shocks and Eibach springs and 2 IIRC of the shocks were blown.
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I read the following as B4 shocks good B6 better for standard height springs:
https://www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk/blogs/news/18419865-how-to-choose-the-correct-bilstein-shock-absorber
I probably would have bought B6 shocks.
Looks like B3 OE spec springs, B4 slightly stiffer, not clear if B4 is shorter.
Knowing whether you want standard or lower ride height is a big part of the decision.
Interesting, thanks for the link.
I didn't intend on lowering the ride height. B6 sounds tempting, but not sure how comfortable they would be for a daily. But then again if I'm going through the effort of changing the shocks I might regret not going for the B6.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/hjrdXG4N/bush-and-drop-link.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vg4BjbVv)
Fitted the new bushes (SuperPro) and drop links (Lemfoerder) to the rear anti roll bar.
Had to lift up the rear arms using the trolley jack to get the new drop links to line up with the holes nicely, but apart from that it wasn't too problematic. Well, that and not knowing how to pry the old bushes out of the brackets, but when I figured out to pry from the top it was easy.
I think the anti roll bar itself has seen better days.
The rear does feel firmer (as is my usual preference), so I'm glad I did it. Thanks for the recommendation.
Planning on doing the suspension next and starting at the rear (also my usual preference). Still deliberating between the Bilstein B4 vs B6s.
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I've finished the front and rear drop links, so I'm going to have a go at refreshing the suspension. I'm going to go for the Bilstein B4s.
This is what's in my basket at the moment:
* 2 x Bilstein B4 Front Shock Absorber [22-140012]
* 2 x Bilstein B3 Front Coil Spring [37-148126]
* 2 x Bilstein B1 Front Strut Mount [12-244942]
* 2 x Meyle Front Bump Stops [100 642 0004]
* 2 x Bilstein B4 Rear Shock Absorber [19-140025]
* 2 x Bilstein B3 Rear Coil Spring [36-148134]
* 2 x Bilstein B1 Rear Strut Mount [12-224081]
* 2 x Meyle Rear Bump Stops [100 742 0018]
I know it's a lot to ask, but do these parts look correct? Mainly the top mounts and bump stops.
Also, should I be looking to buy new bolts while I'm at it? If so, I'm not sure where to look or how I'd find out what bolts I would need.
Thanks as always for any advice.
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All seems to be good from my research.
Think I'll just leave the bolts for now and consult eBay if something snaps. Looks like "VAG Bolts" on eBay do a nice selection.
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If I happened to get the B6 instead of B4 would I still need the bump stops?
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the B6 shocks come with built in bump stops.
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I'm in the middle of replacing the front suspension. Currently stuck at getting the shock absorber out.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vTBm6CBq/shock.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8WRW7vG)
1. Do I need to remove the tie rod to be able to remove the shock absorber? Some tutorials remove it, whilst other's don't. Not sure if it's necessary and that's what's holding me back.
2. Are there any tricks to getting the shock absorber out? I've hammered a chisel punch in to the back to try and open it up, and I've been hitting down on the housing to try and get it out, but I've only managed to get it about half way out so far. Doesn't seem to want to go any further.
Definitely the hardest job I've done on the car so far, but I think I can do it.
Any advice would be appreciated. Going to give it another go tomorrow.
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Take the caliper off and tie it out the way. Take ball joint off the wishbone and undo track rod and drop link. Then take the disc, hub and shock out and do it on a bench.
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Take the caliper off and tie it out the way. Take ball joint off the wishbone and undo track rod and drop link. Then take the disc, hub and shock out and do it on a bench.
Thanks, didn't think to take the whole thing off.
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NOT a safe option unless your careful VERY careful :happy2:
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I have one of these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314180752677?hash=item4926a1d525:g:lfcAAOSwGiJjQnuP&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4KCGh7xFdv6FZEr9EktXqpm6ZW8SNtn2aFA5TqQzM2NnqA9EmaYzPg1UUB69dpF2vvMnwAFYaNVuLKIWFWKwn1bCxhiYM3%2FnwekJynzWOFrcVl4GaB%2FnLjaNSjpIDDdlOIrFlPdGdmr3DuhspNodZNj3wdX2MjUwtDaXkNEkd4YN9p0VOnNy%2BteiXzU0rFtHlgSOENgI7jgp2plz5IOZ7i%2FRE3q3Fkn1NSqT5c15rzWYX2kaxd9QVIrhU6frS2BDzjDTTUygYqxAJ6Al1wb1xG03RjuW6zvDGb7ggJmqV4ej%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4zH8-rcYQ
I've yet to use it but the idea is that is should help in getting the front shocks out.
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I have one of these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314180752677?hash=item4926a1d525:g:lfcAAOSwGiJjQnuP&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4KCGh7xFdv6FZEr9EktXqpm6ZW8SNtn2aFA5TqQzM2NnqA9EmaYzPg1UUB69dpF2vvMnwAFYaNVuLKIWFWKwn1bCxhiYM3%2FnwekJynzWOFrcVl4GaB%2FnLjaNSjpIDDdlOIrFlPdGdmr3DuhspNodZNj3wdX2MjUwtDaXkNEkd4YN9p0VOnNy%2BteiXzU0rFtHlgSOENgI7jgp2plz5IOZ7i%2FRE3q3Fkn1NSqT5c15rzWYX2kaxd9QVIrhU6frS2BDzjDTTUygYqxAJ6Al1wb1xG03RjuW6zvDGb7ggJmqV4ej%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4zH8-rcYQ
I've yet to use it but the idea is that is should help in getting the front shocks out.
I just hammer a 6mm Allen socket if and turn it to spread it. Works every time, I’ve never been able to get a chisel in without it fouling the tab on the bottom of the strut
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I managed to replace the front suspension on both sides.
Here are some notes/tips from my recent experience:
1. You can do this job on your own if you want to.
2. It's more involved than the rear suspension. It took my one day to do both rear springs and shocks, but it took me two days for the front springs and shocks (a day for each side). However, I am an utter beginner working on the floor with an amateur's selection of tools.
3. If you're replacing both the springs and the shocks, might be a good idea to go ahead and get new top mounts, bump stops, and strut protectors/sleeves too. If you get these 3 extra things it saves on having to dismantle the old struts to get the parts off that you need. This may be a big time-saver, as I've heard the top nut on each strut can be difficult to get off sometimes. Wasn't too bad for me, but I did have to go out and get a 21mm/22mm swan neck ring spanner to do the job.
4. Might be worth getting new drop links and track rod ends ready for this job too. If they're original they could be rusty as hell and/or rounded out and may well need cutting off. I had to cut off one of my track rod ends, but got lucky with the other one (and both the drop links were okay too).
5. I disconnected everything from the steering knuckle so I could take the whole thing out with the strut attached (thanks @HughOR (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7881)). Made the job a lot easier. This means that if the strut doesn't hammer out while still in place, you can take it to a bench and do it there. Most online videos leave the caliper and tie rod attached to the steering knuckle too, but I found it was much easier to just take them off (I also took the brake disc off as well for good measure). Plus, I really wouldn't want to have the whole steering knuckle + caliper drop down while attached to the tie rod only, as it's heavy as sh*t.
6. Getting the old shock out and the new one back in are the hardest parts of the job. To get it out, I used a chisel punch to open up the back of the steering knuckle as much as possible. Then I sprayed with WD-40, and whacked with a 4lb lump hammer (better than a 2.5lb). If it doesn't come out, take the whole thing off, and then you can hit the strut out from underneath whilst on a bench. To get it back in, spray grease made a world of difference, and using the trolley jack to help push the steering knuckle up in to the strut helped a lot too, then whack with a 4lb lump hammer from underneath. It takes some effort, but with the right amount of lube, wrangling, despair, and force, it will go back in eventually.
7. Refitting the top mount bolts was about as awkward as expected. But if you're dextrous enough, you can hold the strut with one hand, a bolt in the other hand, and look inside the wheel well to see if you're getting the bolt in to the threads. Still not much fun though, and required some jiggery and/or pokery to get them in. Using the trolley jack to kind-of hold the strut up was helpful.
The only casualty was the plastic windscreen trim that I snapped when getting to one of the top mount bolts on the one side. I don't see how I could have avoided it though.
Oh, and when I had the steering knuckle in the vice, I hammered the strut out on to my foot.
Thanks again everyone for the advice. It's like a different car now and I don't have to nurse it around corners like I used to.
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Good stuff :happy2:
Yeah all of the bolts on the chassis are the stretch type apart from the caliper carrier bolts. Whether you replace them or not is up to you. Most people reuse them.
Fitting & removing lowered suspension is a lot easier than standard struts!! The rear is a piece of p1ss. Wish the fronts were that easy :grin: