MK5 Golf GTI

General => Random Chat => Topic started by: richtung on March 26, 2012, 09:55:39 pm

Title: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: richtung on March 26, 2012, 09:55:39 pm
Evening folks,

After the reading about a recent spate of break ins, ive decided its time to upgrade the locks in my house. The front door is a composite door with a Yale Euro profile lock and the 2 French UPVC door are unbranded Euro profile locks.

Im leaning towards the Avocet ABS Mk3 Lock http://www.avocet-hardware.co.uk/product.asp?id=48 (http://www.avocet-hardware.co.uk/product.asp?id=48) as there seems to be quite good reviews. Anybody have any experience/thoughts on the ABS locks?
Anybody recommend any decent alternatives?

The lock on my front door protrudes from the handle plate by 5-6mm, i take it this isnt good? The french door locks protrude 4mm or so.

While im upgrading the locks, is there any point in upgrading the handles as well? if so, what type / brand?

Any advice would be most appreciated!

Thanks

Rich
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: monte on March 27, 2012, 08:27:30 am
The Garrison door barrels are really good.
I can't believe I gave my brother 6paired-up pairs of these barrels about 6mths ago.
I had em for so long, I just gave them to him.

I'll see if he still has them and I'll let you know.  :happy2:
We can then talk about the specs of your existing barrels!
You can have em for peanuts mate!

There is a link here to them...

http://www.ciaalarms.co.uk/online-store/lock-cylinders/mul-t-lock-break-secure/double
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: TANNER on March 27, 2012, 07:07:44 pm
Aside from decent locks if you have a door sensor with a chime function it will give you better peace of mind. We have a loud chime that goes off whenever the front door is opened and always alarm downstairs at night.
Pretty basic stuff but all helps you sleep at night. Car keys come to bed with me so any opportunists that did have the bottle to walk in for a snatch and grab only get away with a kitchen utensil!
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: monte on March 27, 2012, 07:27:19 pm
 :congrats: good stuff Tanner  :happy2:

Also a couple of "sash jammers" are great deterrent and very cheap too  :happy2:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110751121889?redirect=mobile
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: 182_blue on March 27, 2012, 07:36:13 pm
I have just put 'keyed alike' Cisa Astral S door locks and Hoppe Pas24 security handles all over my new house, nice and secure and all 5 doors share the same key  :happy2:, not cheap by any standard but worth it IMO, the ABS are good but they did go into administration recently and i think they have just managed to survive so that put me off trying them, that and the fact the locks are nearly twice the cost of the Cisa.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy8%2F182_blue%2F87d73cf2.jpg&hash=c175af89df664b6b4fc030b7e26325e9d92a2d12)
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: andrewparker on March 27, 2012, 07:40:24 pm
^^ Snap

Really solid kit. Even had it inspected by the local constabulary who gave it the thumbs up.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: 182_blue on March 27, 2012, 07:44:25 pm
And some in the door (not the revolving lock protector on the Hoppe to prevent drilling etc), please note the key has been photoshopped to prevent copying.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy8%2F182_blue%2F3606f066.jpg&hash=b7da061251e8174f962dcc13724d0c7772e1b50c)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy8%2F182_blue%2F9761b0fb.jpg&hash=fb664b4f7b41693ed27d67be141fe504b72e1872)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy8%2F182_blue%2Fc2d958a6.jpg&hash=8b80c70eb801e5e54645cbc7d87b108dd1b0e849)
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: rich83 on March 27, 2012, 07:58:46 pm
Ive just looked and those Cisa Astral S can be bumped.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: 182_blue on March 27, 2012, 08:02:37 pm
Ive just looked and those Cisa Astral S can be bumped.

If its the ones on the youtube video then they arent Astral S though, just the plain Astral.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: rich83 on March 27, 2012, 08:03:55 pm
Ive just looked and those Cisa Astral S can be bumped.

If its the ones on the youtube video then they arent Astral S though, just the plain Astral.

ahh ok. so how much are those Cisa Astral S? Are they one size fits all?
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: 182_blue on March 27, 2012, 08:08:02 pm
Ive just looked and those Cisa Astral S can be bumped.

If its the ones on the youtube video then they arent Astral S though, just the plain Astral.

ahh ok. so how much are those Cisa Astral S? Are they one size fits all?

I have seen the video of the normal Astral ones and you can see that they are brass and dont have the anti snap bar though the middle, the S version has anti bump built in, as for one size fits all then no they dont fit all but they do have many variations in size, what you need to do is measure your current lock and then buy the one that suits, if ones to lon then just deduct the unnecessary bit from the measurements, i will find you a guide to measuring your current lock, ps the locks are about £30 each.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: 182_blue on March 27, 2012, 08:14:50 pm
You basically measure the screw hole in the middle to the outer face , you do this on both sides as some locks are equal and some are ofset, the good thing about the astral is you dont need an internal and external side and the key can be turned whilst a key is already in the lock, i ordered mine from here and got keyed alike for free too http://www.barnsleylockandsafe.co.uk/ , i have also used http://www.saundersonsecurity.co.uk/ but Barnsley do the Hoppe handles to so saves on shipping etc.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.handlesandhinges.co.uk%2Fproduct_images%2Fa%2F497%2Fsingle_cylinder_measure__28484_zoom.jpg&hash=39d5d144e0c72e4bf9bb72e4698fd7169836f6f7)
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: andrewparker on March 27, 2012, 08:15:07 pm
I bought my Cisa Astral S barrels from here - http://www.upvc-hardware.co.uk/

This is how to measure - http://doortique.absolutewebhosting5.co.uk/graphics/Measuring%20A%20Door%20Cylinder.pdf
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: rich83 on March 27, 2012, 08:15:57 pm
Cool. thanks!
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: Beddie on March 27, 2012, 08:20:34 pm
I've had 2 ABS avocet locks on order for the last week and still no sign due to the backlog  :fighting:

Picked up some Astral S ones instead yesterday so will see how i get on with those  :happy2:

Measuring is relatively simple, remove the cylinder and measure the total length then the length from each end of the cylinder to the centre fixing hole, the internal measurement (portion of the lock inside the house) is always quoted first, then the external one,
This is usually only applicable to the higher end locks such as the ABS/MTL as its important the external side is correctly positioned to provide full protection  :happy2:

e.g my locks are 80mm total length made up of 45mm internal and 35mm external, so if looking at an advert when purchasing they would be known as 45/35
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: rich83 on March 27, 2012, 08:22:42 pm
Excellent explanation. Will measure my barrel tomorrow.  :innocent:
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: 182_blue on March 27, 2012, 09:02:26 pm
Excellent explanation. Will measure my barrel tomorrow.  :innocent:

Remember if they are a bit long currently just deduct the extra off the final measurement, this will help if you do go for the Hoppe pas24 handles due to the external lock protectors (they do extend and retract to fit varying sizes but you cant go to far).
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: rich83 on March 27, 2012, 09:08:37 pm
OK.. from what i can see they appear to be a very good fit. Not flush but about 1mm either side
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: richtung on March 27, 2012, 09:27:48 pm
thanks for the responses guys :happy2:
All very informative posts and new stuff for me to take on board.

Its basically a toss up between the Astral S and ABS locks.

I think i may as well go for the Hoppe handles as well whilst im at it!

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: Beddie on March 27, 2012, 09:35:24 pm

Its basically a toss up between the Astral S and ABS locks.

I think i may as well go for the Hoppe handles as well whilst im at it!


Yeah those 2 locks are imo the best realistically priced ones out there, Hoppe handles are definitely worth it too!  :happy2:

This helped to convince me i needed to upgrade both the locks and handles asap...  :scared:

Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: richtung on March 27, 2012, 09:39:49 pm
thanks for the the link Steve. its a real eye opener.

i saw this one yesterday.. emphasizes why the lock must be flush with the handle:



Thanks

Rich
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: 182_blue on March 27, 2012, 09:50:53 pm
thanks for the the link Steve. its a real eye opener.

i saw this one yesterday.. emphasizes why the lock must be flush with the handle:



Thanks

Rich



The Astra s has two options, one has the strengthened bars though the lock to prevent them being snapped and the other has special ends either side where the end snaps off in the event of an attack but it snaps in a place where it doesn't allow the lock and door mechanism to be opened.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: rich83 on March 27, 2012, 09:55:11 pm

Its basically a toss up between the Astral S and ABS locks.

I think i may as well go for the Hoppe handles as well whilst im at it!


Yeah those 2 locks are imo the best realistically priced ones out there, Hoppe handles are definitely worth it too!  :happy2:

This helped to convince me i needed to upgrade both the locks and handles asap...  :scared:



Something tells me that that little scrote has done that a few times before.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: Beddie on March 27, 2012, 10:01:25 pm

Something tells me that that little scrote has done that a few times before.

He's a window and door 'technician' according to his vid response  :grin:
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: monte on March 28, 2012, 09:27:51 am
For night time security (i.e. while you are sleeping etc) the Sash jammers are worth their weight in gold.  :happy2:

When I lived in Bradford I woke up to find the old door barrel in pieces on the kitchen floor. However flipping 2 jammers down before going to bed stopped the scumbags gaining entry.   :smiley:

At a couple of quid each, they are well worth it.  :wink:
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: Thor on March 28, 2012, 09:37:12 am
And the thing is if you're waiting on the other side the door and knock his teeth out like he did your lock, you'll be the one in trouble.  :rolleye:

Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: 182_blue on March 28, 2012, 06:48:30 pm
For night time security (i.e. while you are sleeping etc) the Sash jammers are worth their weight in gold.  :happy2:

When I lived in Bradford I woke up to find the old door barrel in pieces on the kitchen floor. However flipping 2 jammers down before going to bed stopped the scumbags gaining entry.   :smiley:

At a couple of quid each, they are well worth it.  :wink:

Do you have a picture of your sash jammers ?
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: QD MBE on March 28, 2012, 08:07:01 pm
Got ABS avocet locks, with sash levers aswell.

I can't for the life of me remember why, but the ABS avocet were the lock of choice with my local plod over the astral S.

Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: 182_blue on March 28, 2012, 08:24:48 pm
Got ABS avocet locks, with sash levers aswell.

I can't for the life of me remember why, but the ABS avocet were the lock of choice with my local plod over the astral S.



The only difference with the ABS is you can register your keys so only you can order them, however the chances of someone being able to guess your key dimple combination on an Astral s is a as near as impossible as you can get.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: QD MBE on March 28, 2012, 09:20:25 pm
Got ABS avocet locks, with sash levers aswell.

I can't for the life of me remember why, but the ABS avocet were the lock of choice with my local plod over the astral S.



The only difference with the ABS is you can register your keys so only you can order them, however the chances of someone being able to guess your key dimple combination on an Astral s is a as near as impossible as you can get.

Don't think that was it.  Both good locks, I will look back through my paperwork.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: monte on March 29, 2012, 12:23:39 am
For night time security (i.e. while you are sleeping etc) the Sash jammers are worth their weight in gold.  :happy2:

When I lived in Bradford I woke up to find the old door barrel in pieces on the kitchen floor. However flipping 2 jammers down before going to bed stopped the scumbags gaining entry.   :smiley:

At a couple of quid each, they are well worth it.  :wink:

Do you have a picture of your sash jammers ?

There is a load of em on eBay  :happy2:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110751121889?redirect=mobile

They are pictured in the eBay ad fixed to a window. As you will see they are screwed to the sash as the windows open out. When using the jammers on a door screw them to the door frame.(I'm presuming that your door opens in?)   
Fix them to the lock side obviously, and about 8"-12" from the top and bottom of the door. (2jammers per door is great)

Also try and use the correct screws. The advert I linked comes with the right ones. :wink:
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: richtung on March 29, 2012, 09:15:27 am
Got ABS avocet locks, with sash levers aswell.

I can't for the life of me remember why, but the ABS avocet were the lock of choice with my local plod over the astral S.



The only difference with the ABS is you can register your keys so only you can order them, however the chances of someone being able to guess your key dimple combination on an Astral s is a as near as impossible as you can get.

would be interested on your finding on this QD  :happy2:

Cheers

Rich

Don't think that was it.  Both good locks, I will look back through my paperwork.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: rich83 on March 29, 2012, 02:59:31 pm
Just measured our front door lock and it's 100mm total length. 55mm out and 45mm in. The outside part sticks out about 5mm. So I presume I would order a 50/45mm to eliminate the lock protruding out on the front on the door?
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: richtung on April 02, 2012, 08:17:58 am
just started to measure the handles and cylinders. Hit a snag on the french doors.
On the first french door (the door you unlock first), you can access the cylinder retaining screw - so far so good. However, on the second door (the one with the center latch in), you cant access the retaining screw. The side of the door has the extra UPVC post screwed in and then the centre latch is screwed in to this post - not sure if this is making sense to people??

is it a case of unscrewing the centre latch from the UPVC and then unscrewing the UPVC post from the door?

To avoid doing this twice (once to measure the cyclinder and again to install the new cylinder), is it safe to assume that the sizes of the two cylinders on the french doors will be the same?

Thanks

Rich
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: rich83 on April 02, 2012, 08:28:42 am
Rich... That's normal. I've got the same on our patio doors. There should be about 4/6 screws that hold the extra strip on. Once you have removed that then you can access the cylinder retaining screw.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: monte on April 02, 2012, 08:36:03 am
Rich, rich is correct here. When it comes to screwing this T-bar back on make sure that you squeeze the bar up against the bubble gasket that goes around the door leaf.
Otherwise the bar could screw on on a bit of an angle or cause draughts or locking problems etc.

 :happy2:
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: gtlee on April 02, 2012, 08:43:33 am
I've got the ABS avocet locks and the Hoppe Pas24 security handles they're a good set of security!
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: richtung on April 02, 2012, 08:55:32 am
I've got the ABS avocet locks and the Hoppe Pas24 security handles they're a good set of security!

thanks guys.

another issue im concerned about is because im replacing the handle and cylinder for the ABS MK3 and Hoppe security handle combo, do i:

A) when measuring the cylinder, add a few mm on so that the ABS cylinder protrudes from the faceplate as advised here: http://toughlocks.co.uk/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=92 (http://toughlocks.co.uk/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=92)

or B) measure the cylinder so its as flush as possible to the faceplate (as advised by most people)?

im a bit confused!!

Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: richtung on April 16, 2012, 10:05:34 pm
Well, the Avocet ABS Locks arrived today and were soon fitted.

Cannot believe how ridiculously easy it is to do which in turn has probably improved my home security 5 fold  :happy2: :happy2:!! Totally recommend the lock upgrades if you haven't already done so.. For the sake of less than £40, get it done! It buys you total peace of mind!

Just waiting for delivery of the Hoppe Pas 24 handles and these will be fitted as soon as they arrive!

Rich

 
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: andrewparker on April 17, 2012, 04:51:44 pm
I was massively surprised by how easy it was too. It's literally a 5 minute job. Your mum could do it.
Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: Frodo-anni on October 04, 2013, 07:16:13 pm
Well worth thread revival considering the recent events suffered by some & the recent activity i have seen in the bradford area of disappearing GTI's  :fighting:

Of the Astral S and Avocet ABS locks, anyone had any issues over last 12 months?

undecided whether to dent the credit card for new handles aswell, but its safety first.

The barnsley lock and safe still seem well priced for both.

http://www.barnsleylockandsafe.co.uk/Product-213/Avocet-ABS-MK3-Keyed-Alike-Snap-Secure-Locks---only-£38.90-Including-UK-Delivery

Title: Re: Upgrading UPVC door locks - advice please..?
Post by: neg on October 06, 2013, 02:32:10 pm
Good prompt, I used Barnsley lock and safe when I upgraded all mine earlier this year after the R went missing.  Not had any issues with mine.
Title: Re:
Post by: AndrewJB on October 11, 2013, 09:35:18 pm
After reading this I have fitted 2x sash jammer to all my downstairs windows and doors today.

Need to look into securing the sliding patio door now aswell.

Going to sash jammer all the upstairs ones aswell just for the sake of it

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