MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: jammy78 on August 16, 2012, 05:54:46 pm
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Hi all,
This might be of use to some people......
I purchased this from ebay for a stupid price, as it was worth a punt (seller has these as a auction also):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLKSWAGEN-GOLF-MK5-GTI-2-0-FSI-TURBO-STAINLESS-STEEL-3-SPORTS-CAT-EXHAUST-PIPE-/220959138790?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AGolf%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+V&hash=item337230e3e6 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLKSWAGEN-GOLF-MK5-GTI-2-0-FSI-TURBO-STAINLESS-STEEL-3-SPORTS-CAT-EXHAUST-PIPE-/220959138790?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AGolf%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+V&hash=item337230e3e6)
These are the actual pictures:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa265%2Fjammy78%2FPicture058.jpg&hash=5b0536416a99dec7284b0b38d995c4db0c380d3c)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa265%2Fjammy78%2FPicture063.jpg&hash=db2ff25ea7d6a08a7f74230d00530929759e1dd4)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa265%2Fjammy78%2FPicture059.jpg&hash=b684c586fc337dba54ceaee72a1dfeac550b3e0f)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa265%2Fjammy78%2FPicture060.jpg&hash=feaa15f6b0bc184ebc3e4a07b76ddb092184d250)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa265%2Fjammy78%2FPicture061.jpg&hash=c21488f049f6694245487c2ce3f76088c413de82)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa265%2Fjammy78%2FPicture062.jpg&hash=cdc948dd15eb642fa756a825c007ae6cf478fece)
I had this fitted by a VW specialist to my Leon Cupra (same engine as the ED30) today & it fits perfectly.
The garage was impressed with it, for the price! Now my car has a roar when you put your foot down. I can't comment on whether it will pass an MOT (mine is next month, so can update if anyone is interested) or how long will it last.
But if you don't want to spend £600+ on a brand name, this is a very good alternative!
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i nearly went for one of those. i was just wary of the quality of the cat.
definitely let us know how you get on with it.
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Looks good! :happy2: How does your butt dyno feel about it? And did the carage use the clamp that came with the DP, is it decent quality?
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The flexible joint looks rather short imo... I believe Milltek run a shorter(but longer than that) flexible joint and have known to crack the flange weld...
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I just placed order on the same pipe :party: Hopefully its as good as you say, thanks for the tip :smiley: I have full engine mounts so Im not worried about the flexi joint. The unbelievable prices for these catted downpipes have put me off for buying one before.
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Just be aware that the actual cat internal component (which you can't inspect without cutting into it) is a very expensive part of an exhaust system. What quality is the cat on a £240 exhaust system I wonder.
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Looks good! :happy2: How does your butt dyno feel about it? And did the carage use the clamp that came with the DP, is it decent quality?
Yeah the garage used the clamp.
I was worried about it being too loud or getting vibrations (thats the reason I didn't go stage 2 while it was being fitted)... I wanted to try it out 1st, as these look pretty new on the market (with the sports cat). But everything is fine..... not too loud when driving 'normally' & a roar when you floor it!
I'll update this in a few weeks when my MOT is due. With a buy like this - only time will tell if it's a good one!
Ps what is the flexi joint?
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Looks good! :happy2: How does your butt dyno feel about it? And did the carage use the clamp that came with the DP, is it decent quality?
Yeah the garage used the clamp.
I was worried about it being too loud or getting vibrations (thats the reason I didn't go stage 2 while it was being fitted)... I wanted to try it out 1st, as these look pretty new on the market (with the sports cat). But everything is fine..... not too loud when driving 'normally' & a roar when you floor it!
I'll update this in a few weeks when my MOT is due. With a buy like this - only time will tell if it's a good one!
Ps what is the flexi joint?
Flexi joint is the part before cat, its supposed to flex :smiley: Please do update the MOT experiences after you get it done. Did you get a lot more power with this?
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^^^^
Without any ability to flex, some components have a greater risk of breaking. The 2.0T FSI engine with OEM engine mounts has a lot of movement and can also break aftermarket air intake mounts when attached to the side bracket.
You'll notice that exhaust systems are fitted on hangers which are flexible.
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I received my catted ebay downpipe and took a couple of photos.
Heres the package, the v-clamp doesnt look too quality but hopefully it will do the trick. I might need to find some high temp sealant for the connection. Welds look pretty good, atleast better then my squat bench :smiley:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkuvauppi.fi%2Fview%2Foutput%2FGUID%2F472BFABB-1DBD-1992-A0C6-33586E46D6AF%2Fpackage.jpg&hash=26c72ed11f6f799f679db6ed277eb4074af5b1fa)
The 100 cell cat here. Looks like it will flow a lot better then stock, not sure if it will clean air :wink:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkuvauppi.fi%2Fview%2Foutput%2FGUID%2FA36C2EF9-6087-83AA-8CF6-0BFBDCB6BD03%2Fcat.jpg&hash=9a211969d74607e316275485453746ab6c70deae)
Its already rusted inside :happy2: But the flex joint _looks_ like its leak free.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkuvauppi.fi%2Fview%2Foutput%2FGUID%2F6404C5B5-A5BD-219B-8639-5BABF947E398%2Finside.jpg&hash=764183fa2d03e216a8bee76cca266d9f4ba62850)
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I installed the downpipe today. Seemed to fit pretty good, although the support hanger near cat didnt line up perfectly. I had to use some force to get left side hole to line up. The sound didnt change much, I already had a precat delete and this downpipe really didnt add much. Cold start is just a bit louder but once it warms up, Its silent.
From pure performance factor, I just drove a few kilometers after install so engine might still adapt and feel different tomorrow. But I already noticed a slight increase in power over precat delete. However the precat delete felt like a bigger step from stock downpipe. I does pull now quite well and 2nd gear TCS flickers longer into higher revs. I didnt log timing pull or acceleration numbers yet. There might be room to add more timing now, lets see. The spoolup also seems different and maybe turbo is coming on just a bit later but naturally pulls better after its going.
Overall, feels good and Im happy with it :happy2:
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Can this be fitted to a milltek cat back.
And will this bring up any warning lights on an un mapped car
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Can this be fitted to a milltek cat back.
And will this bring up any warning lights on an un mapped car
If your milltek fits to stock downpipe then it should go on ok. However this means there is a slight restriction in the pipe where they are attached to each other (pipe will be stock diameter in the joint).
I have revo stage 2 so I dont know if this 100 cell is enough to keep cat efficiency being flagged up.
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^^^^
Whereas different pipe sections and components may manage to be fitted together it worries me that some people are happy to mix-n-match this-n-that on a remapped car. Performance exhaust systems such as Milltek, BCS, APR, are very consciously designed to be used as a whole and to perform properly without restrictions etc. There's more to it than just stringing pipework and silencers together.
If you can't afford a whole new system, how about a second-hand one?
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it worries me that some people
Maybe you shouldn't worry so much what other people do? This DP seems to work perfectly, so it really doesn't make a big difference which catback you mate to it. Mainly it will just change the sound characters of the car. Its not like your changing the way engine works.
Its not a bad thing that people want to save money and not go with the unbelievably expensive exhaust options. IMHO they just dont represent a good value for money. So If someone wants to make his/her own combo, its perfectly fine and is certainly more rewarding for a person with a modification bug.
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it worries me that some people...
Maybe you shouldn't worry so much what other people do? This DP seems to work perfectly, so it really doesn't make a big difference which catback you mate to it. Mainly it will just change the sound characters of the car. Its not like your changing the way engine works.
Its not a bad thing that people want to save money and not go with the unbelievably expensive exhaust options. IMHO they just dont represent a good value for money. So If someone wants to make his/her own combo, its perfectly fine and is certainly more rewarding for a person with a modification bug.
....I can respect what you are saying but I am only expressing concern for the sake of others reading this thread and following the examples. There's more to performance exhaust systems than just the sound. You say: "This DP seems to work perfectly" - The term "seems" does not fill someone with confidence. Perhaps you don't know that a very expensive and very important component in a performance exhaust system is the catalyst which uses precious metals.
Of course if someone wants to make their own combo it's entirely up to them and makes no difference to me, but do they really know better than the specialists who have spent years of time and investment in producing high performance exhaust systems fit for purpose?
Each to their own of course but I'm just sharing my opinion :smiley:
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The problem you need to be aware of is the braided flex liner.
As the gasses super heat the flex braid expands dramatically and chokes the flow of the system. Unfortunately it has no memory and stays in its expanded position, the net result will be a dramatic loss of performance.
The only reliable product suitable for this application is the stainless steel 'i - LOK' flex.
So if you are going down the path of upgrading your performance you need to be aware of this. In other words a loss of power may take some time for an un educated (on this matter) technician to diagnose, especially as outwardly the flex will appear structurally sound.
That is of course if it doesn't snap first - at just over 100mm in length it is no where near long enough to absorb the transverse torque of the 2.0 TFSi especially when tuned - it needs to be at least 200mm to prevent this (Just look at the OEM DP for evidence on this and feel how flexible it by comparison.
Sorry to be the bearer of disappointing news but hey knowledge ahead of the event can save money in the long run.
Cheers
Nige
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The problem you need to be aware of is the braided flex liner.
As the gasses super heat the flex braid expands dramatically and chokes the flow of the system. Unfortunately it has no memory and stays in its expanded position, the net result will be a dramatic loss of performance.
The only reliable product suitable for this application is the stainless steel 'i - LOK' flex.
So if you are going down the path of upgrading your performance you need to be aware of this. In other words a loss of power may take some time for an un educated (on this matter) technician to diagnose, especially as outwardly the flex will appear structurally sound.
That is of course if it doesn't snap first - at just over 100mm in length it is no where near long enough to absorb the transverse torque of the 2.0 TFSi especially when tuned - it needs to be at least 200mm to prevent this (Just look at the OEM DP for evidence on this and feel how flexible it by comparison.
Sorry to be the bearer of disappointing news but hey knowledge ahead of the event can save money in the long run.
Cheers
Nige
....This is exactly the sort of expert information which people should be taking notice of and why I would not ignorantly attempt a Heath Robinson experimental approach whether I have a modding bug or not. Cheap eBay products are generally simply not to be trusted in my opinion.
Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.
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....I can respect what you are saying but I am only expressing concern for the sake of others reading this thread and following the examples. There's more to performance exhaust systems than just the sound. You say: "This DP seems to work perfectly" - The term "seems" does not fill someone with confidence. Perhaps you don't know that a very expensive and very important component in a performance exhaust system is the catalyst which uses precious metals.
Im aware of the function of catalysator, thank you very much. I used the word "seems" because I have only my own limited user experiences & logs about this and Im not trying to sell anyone anything or provide you with confidence. You might have your own reasons to buy an exhaust system and so did I. So it might fail or not, I didnt plan for it last me 10 years anyway because I will most likely change my car in couple of years. Experiences about ebay decat pipes lasting well (even the flex joint) insprired my purchase. I do my own work so I can swap it out and change the flex section if it breaks, but as I have stated I have mounts so maybe it doesn't. I have heard stories about Milltek joints breaking, so that doesnt inspire confidence either. The flex joints are quite short with APR & Milltek also.
I dont want to fight about this, I know people tend to buy the products by brand names but be as precious metals as you keep saying, most of the downpipes are still grossly overpriced. This example worked for my application, if your not happy with it then you can just cry about it :P
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I dont want to fight about this, I know people tend to buy the products by brand names but be as precious metals as you keep saying, most of the downpipes are still grossly overpriced. This example worked for my application, if your not happy with it then you can just cry about it :P
....No problem, mate :happy2:
As I said before, I'm just expressing and sharing my opinions. I'm not unhappy about what other folks decide to buy - Folks can and will make up their own minds. As a car enthusiast community we merely share our opinions and mine happens to be different from yours on the subject of exhaust systems.
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The problem you need to be aware of is the braided flex liner.
As the gasses super heat the flex braid expands dramatically and chokes the flow of the system. Unfortunately it has no memory and stays in its expanded position, the net result will be a dramatic loss of performance.
The only reliable product suitable for this application is the stainless steel 'i - LOK' flex.
So if you are going down the path of upgrading your performance you need to be aware of this. In other words a loss of power may take some time for an un educated (on this matter) technician to diagnose, especially as outwardly the flex will appear structurally sound.
That is of course if it doesn't snap first - at just over 100mm in length it is no where near long enough to absorb the transverse torque of the 2.0 TFSi especially when tuned - it needs to be at least 200mm to prevent this (Just look at the OEM DP for evidence on this and feel how flexible it by comparison.
Sorry to be the bearer of disappointing news but hey knowledge ahead of the event can save money in the long run.
Cheers
Nige
Do you have example pictures about the deformed flex liners? I have yet to see an example of that happening in our cars.. The liner is in between two braids sections in this DP so there's not much room for the liner to protrude inside the 3" pipe even if it tried to deform. You right that the OEMP DP is in its own leaque in the lenght of the flex section, the section is a lot shorter in all aftermarket applications. Atleast Milltek and APR are very short also and similar lenght to this ebay pipe. I didnt google what the BCS dp looks like, but Im sure its great :)
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Before the advent of 'i - LOK' technology believe it or not the flex joints had no liners at all leaving the convoluted flex hose visible and exposed to absorb this hostile environment on it's own.
Very quickly the short comings of this solution to transverse motion were exposed at this end of the performance spectrum, in spite of the fact that the development of the flexible de coupler by Senior Flexonics had been a life saver to the automotive industry after the problematic and completely inadequate - from a warranty perspective mechanical spherical joints - (Those that remember virtually the entire British Leyland range relying on this design - and the subsequent growth in the exhaust fast industry growing in response to the need for replacement every twelve months :grin: - will bear this out).
So the inner braid was the first solution, a design which was copied by both Indian and Chinese manufacturers supplying predominantly fluid flexible solutions not gas - sadly it fails to give the structural integrity over a long period that the 'i - LOK' gives, which in itself, inspite of what manufacturers tell you is not a totally 'bomb proof' design. The key to minimising the products failure risk (at this level) is to ensure on high performance applications that the flexible joint is sufficiently long enough to absorb both the mechanical energy and heat energy (Those of us that remember the 1st law of thermodynamics from our school days will understand this) in order to prevent the transference from causing the flex to crack or in the case of the braided inner style balooning as described in my earlier post.
As JMP says though this part can be replaced and a superior unit welded back into position as both the inlet and out let straight sections appear long enough to take a longer version - it would just be nicer for the owner not to have to undertake the hassle of this if it occurs :happy2:
Cheers
Nige
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Well it's been on for nearly 2 months & I haven't noticed a drop in performance at all!?
The real test is coming up, either this weekend or next..... I'm taking it to Halfrauds Autocentre for the MOT (50% discount), so if they pass the emissions - every tester will!!!
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The problem you need to be aware of is the braided flex liner.
As the gasses super heat the flex braid expands dramatically and chokes the flow of the system. Unfortunately it has no memory and stays in its expanded position, the net result will be a dramatic loss of performance.
The only reliable product suitable for this application is the stainless steel 'i - LOK' flex.
So if you are going down the path of upgrading your performance you need to be aware of this. In other words a loss of power may take some time for an un educated (on this matter) technician to diagnose, especially as outwardly the flex will appear structurally sound.
That is of course if it doesn't snap first - at just over 100mm in length it is no where near long enough to absorb the transverse torque of the 2.0 TFSi especially when tuned - it needs to be at least 200mm to prevent this (Just look at the OEM DP for evidence on this and feel how flexible it by comparison.
Sorry to be the bearer of disappointing news but hey knowledge ahead of the event can save money in the long run.
Cheers
Nige
....This is exactly the sort of expert information which people should be taking notice of and why I would not ignorantly attempt a Heath Robinson experimental approach whether I have a modding bug or not. Cheap eBay products are generally simply not to be trusted in my opinion.
Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.
No offence RR but sometimes I get the impression that you think that throwing money at something will make it better. I generally agree with the adage "pay cheap, pay twice", but i feel you're very quick to sing the praises of brands with known weaknesses whilst totally ignoring their limitations. Case in point: rubbish welding on Millteks. All the development you value so highly and money you spend, and you still got a shoddy product. They may have improved their designs now, but I think there's more to it than how much you pay or the fact it's from eBay.
This DP may still be rubbish. Only time will tell. But writing it off with no prior experience isn't fair
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^^ :happy2:
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No offence RR but sometimes I get the impression that you think that throwing money at something will make it better. I generally agree with the adage "pay cheap, pay twice", but i feel you're very quick to sing the praises of brands with known weaknesses whilst totally ignoring their limitations. Case in point: rubbish welding on Millteks. All the development you value so highly and money you spend, and you still got a shoddy product. They may have improved their designs now, but I think there's more to it than how much you pay or the fact it's from eBay.
This DP may still be rubbish. Only time will tell. But writing it off with no prior experience isn't fair
....I totally accept what you are saying, and no offence is taken whatsoever :happy2:
I'm only flagging the need for caution in buying products which are yet to be proven. Rightly or wrongly, I do start off with a prejudice against stuff offered on eBay which isn't from the manufacturers/suppliers who already have a well established reputation which I feel I can trust.
I haven't experienced the weaknesses of some products which some folks report, so I can't always agree. Where I have experienced weaknesses and they have been put right with excellent service etc, I can't see any justification in me trashing their reputation.
I wish I had more money to throw! :laugh: - I don't want much, I just want a lot of it!
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Lucky this cat was cheap, as I've had a change of plans... new job :congrats: = need to get a diesel :sad1: ..... so I'm putting the car back to standard! I want to look for cars at the weekend & may p/x it..... so haven't got time to risk it failing the MOT.
So someone else will have to be the guinea pig!
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In the link on the first post it's now £2390 to buy one of these! :surprised:
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In the link on the first post it's now £2390 to buy one of these! :surprised:
You get what you pay for! dont be cheap :happy2:
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In the link on the first post it's now £2390 to buy one of these! :surprised:
Still...... a BARGAIN!
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so has anybody else tried these to see how long they last ?
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I have one of these on my car in fact my full system has came from eBay and I've had not problems with it at all the only exception being that the eml has been on saying a camshaft sensor fault this was replaced but still comes back on these parts were added after I already had a generic stage one map the way I see it is people have may not have an unlimited budget so they have to work with what they have and as far as I'm concerned this stuff looks decent quality for the price and seems to perform well so far I may be proved wrong but it's the chance you take designer brand names don't necessarily mean better quality
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i bought Jammy's off him and its currently sat at AKS Tuning ready for Alex to fit it soon
We had a look over it and it doesn't seem to bad actually, the welding looks quite good
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what a bargain for some shiny pipes, £2390.....
maybe the price changed since you bought....
I rememebr buyiong a back box for my first car, first Golf (1.3 MK1 Driver), £31. Ah, the good old days...
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Just an update to this ebay downpipe. I still have it on my car and just had my yearly inspection, first one after installing it. I passed the emissions with it. However it was very close call, but still a pass. CO emissions were 1.5% and 2.0% is maximum allowed. HC (CH) 30 ppm, 100 ppm is max allowed. The day was hot and I made sure engine was as hot as possible also.