MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Track Day Technical => Topic started by: the bruce on March 15, 2013, 06:21:42 pm
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THE ultimate suspension?
Öhlins has developed a brand new coilovers:
Öhlins VWSMI10
Spring rates of 70 N/mm on front and 60 N/mm on rear. Say somewhat stiffer than usual (25 bis 45 N/mm),
while being stiffer compared to most Clubsport coilovers (70 bis 120 N/mm). Probably close to 2000,-- €.
BTW,
NO, this is NOT the already available damper kit !!
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.picr.de%2F13776918kx.jpg&hash=fb79dbc6c5f6abdab988ce03f97d1284e011e775) (http://up.picr.de/13776918kx.pdf)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13776921bq.jpg&hash=74742b9e35c5f5d418e0ded56f60aec84e657171)
:congrats:
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:love:
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I've been looking for prices but I can't seem to find any yet, have these been officially released in mk5 golf guise ?
I can only find the damper kit at £1295
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Well the damper kit is no longer available.
The coilovers are close to 3k!
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I've been looking for prices but I can't seem to find any yet, have these been officially released in mk5 golf guise ?
I can only find the damper kit at £1295
It'll take a couple of weeks. Consider £500 more. BMW E90/92 R&T coilovers are about 2100,-- € in Germany.
Well the damper kit is no longer available.
The coilovers are close to 3k!
I'm sorry if the stop making the dampers alone. I planned to pair them with Eibach Pro or VW Zubehör springs.
3K? Hope not. For 3K I'd expect higher grade dampers like they sell for the M3 and the GT3.
M3 E92:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13922472ze.jpg&hash=7817db54f25dcaadb8a110bf6ace71a0ed3531e4)
Porsche 997 GT3 front:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13922473nh.jpg&hash=c2525b79327fb0e7ed89404d405891340a89c969)
and rear:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13922474zy.jpg&hash=8d19e6620147ab3c51985d7b7a7b49e3a7c59005)
of course these are little more money:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13922475iq.jpg&hash=997b7c834dcf7904967489f24f2fdd93eded311d)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13922476tm.jpg&hash=30285523e693accdfe4d1f9c27996e6efbc04628)
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oooft You could hang those on your wall - stunning !
Unfortunately a fair bit out of my price range at that price. I was expecting / hoping they would be £1800, oh well enough of the dreaming and back to the reality of bilsteins :sad1:
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oooft You could hang those on your wall - stunning !
I'm the kind of guy to do this. :party:
Unfortunately a fair bit out of my price range at that price. I was expecting / hoping they would be £1800,
oh well enough of the dreaming and back to the reality of bilsteins :sad1:
Wait on, I hope they will be below £2000. Look for prices on Mini R56 and BMW E90 Road & Track coilovers.
They will surely be similar.
Instead of Bilstein I'd also consider Sachs Performance Coilovers.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816729xi.jpg&hash=15316da9d1966133571b553064728c31de6f5d43)
(note the part # didn't change, but the Sachs logo did)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816731pk.jpg&hash=3d8ff3bd115c2c93ed3deeee3310f18efc2ab0e4)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816846uz.jpg&hash=833a8a68dab8f6629461aba34d8e2e7e65ca30bb)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816736tn.jpg&hash=bc24d80b143d8df0f998a86393554ff89a0e2ef2)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816733ux.jpg&hash=ad2bd00254469796a01b6852a4f7228b280a79e8)
rear:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816734ed.jpg&hash=04c274ed31f27738b3384553f7b6bbed588f6ddb)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816732ra.jpg&hash=0f3c576fb739e83835ef44f493c0da04bf432c35)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816844ll.jpg&hash=fd2ca500bf4d7a46caa0249778131fc28c03ffc6)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816845rq.jpg&hash=7aa7d5e7a432ec8e74425e79df9cf2a128321d6f)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816847ts.jpg&hash=753bc33a736c05ee50f0b81c121480950f361990)
even the supplied tools compared to chinese stuff:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816848rf.jpg&hash=60ca701b7565dd36372753f1246d7d4c80e1b08a)
Sachs M3 E92 coilovers:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13816850vm.jpg&hash=3feec49a5966c38471c67fa59ecbebceb5952181)
On a side note - most suspension makers pick up their springs from a building set
similar to a "box of bricks". The early Sachs Performance coilovers had the same
springs as Eibach Pro Street S, KW Variante 1 - Variante 3, VWR coilovers, Weitec,
AP, ST, HPA and others - just different colors and printing. Most of them still have.
Just view them side by side. All these are made by Eibach in Germany.
Bilstein B14, B16 and H&R coilovers come with H&R springs though. Guess the
Bilstein front springs are specific to Bilstein, the rears aren't.
Again, three years or so ago Sachs swapped to their own (linear) front springs (still
made by Eibach) after they recognized noise issues (don't know why all the others
did not) while still keeping the same rear springs as all the other brands. No issue at
all, as these were already linear and free of any trouble.
Some makes even use the same dampers. Of course Sachs doesn't, making dampers
is their core competence. See what they do in racing:
http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/motorsports/zfinmotorsports/index.html (http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/motorsports/zfinmotorsports/index.html)
http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/motorsports/zfinmotorsports/motorsports_history/index.html (http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/motorsports/zfinmotorsports/motorsports_history/index.html)
http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/motorsports/zfinmotorsports/motorsports_success/index.html (http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/motorsports/zfinmotorsports/motorsports_success/index.html)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13922476tm.jpg&hash=30285523e693accdfe4d1f9c27996e6efbc04628)
Bruce your last pic above is a bit of a red herring Are they not the Ohlins TTX40 4-way dampers?. These retail at about £10,000. :rolleye:
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"little more money" :signLOL:
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:rolleye:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ohlins-Road-Track-Gewindefahrwerk-VW-Scirocco-2008-/121081400645?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item1c31038d45
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Now available. :happy2:
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At 3200-3500E they are priced somewhere between the KW Clubsport (2500E) and the Bilstein Clubsports (3800-4000E). Still looking for a review on these over the usual B16, KW v3...
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And I thought mk v3 clubsports were expensive :confused:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fup.picr.de%2F13922476tm.jpg&hash=30285523e693accdfe4d1f9c27996e6efbc04628)
Bruce your last pic above is a bit of a red herring Are they not the Ohlins TTX40 4-way dampers?. These retail at about £10,000. :rolleye:
Is that all?? I get why you'd like some nice adj. damp. Coil overs but spending 3K+... Probably same price as a touring car setup.
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:signLOL:
A forum mate is running the Road & Track coilovers on his Octavia RS for a few weeks now.
From what I remember he paid about 3000 €. I will try to get some report from him.
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I'd really like to hear his opinion on them and a comparison if he had other coild on the car before !
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A forum mate is running the Road & Track coilovers on his Octavia RS for a few weeks now.
From what I remember he paid about 3000 €. I will try to get some report from him.
I'll try to translate his reply:
"Handling is awesome, adjustability is quite easy, damping currently is adjusted -10 + -15 klicks
from 20.
It feels reasonably stiffer compared to both stock and KW V1. Consider I'm running 19" wheels.
However, dampers seem show a smooth response on quick/hard imperfections. I'm going to
try a softer damper setting this weekend and see how it feels.
The R&T variant in my Octavia RS is the same as in the Golf with 70 N/mm and 60 N/mm spring
rates. With the current lowering by 40 mm, there is very little pre load. For this reason Öhlins
will supply helper springs and retrofit them to my car with no additional charge."
He had KW V1 coilovers before, some suspension tweaks like Whiteline ALK, TT strut mounts,
sway bars, Yokohama AD08 tyres and Wavetrac LSD.
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I was hoping for a track review...if he spend those money, I suppose he doesn't only drive on the streets :)
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I fitted some a couple of months back. Best coilovers I've ever used.
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What else have you used and can you be more specific about the differences ?
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Used basically everything on many different cars. All the bilsteins (not clubsports), all kw, Ast, nitron, eibach and a few others.
The Ohlins just absorb all the bumps with ease with the dual valve setup, but are perfectly stiff in the corners.
I'm hoping my customer comes on and gives some feedback.
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Used basically everything on many different cars. All the bilsteins (not clubsports), all kw, Ast, nitron, eibach and a few others.
The Ohlins just absorb all the bumps with ease with the dual valve setup, but are perfectly stiff in the corners.
I'm hoping my customer comes on and gives some feedback.
Only took me three weeks to notice this. The customer that Alex (AKS) fitted Ohlins RT coilovers for was me.
Not got any experience myself of other coilovers on my Ed30. I went from standard suspension which I found too crashy over bumps.
To a Bilstein B12 set up. Firstly with the supplied H&R springs and then got them changed to Eibach sportline springs with the Bilstein dampers.
While the B12 handled much better than stock I personally felt the car was still too stiff for UK roads. Might just be me getting old!!
The car just bounced across every road imperfection and for me it was getting to the thought of nearly changing the car.
I didn't want a Citroen ride quality. But just wanted the car to feel 'damped' and not feel every inch of the road in a jarring vertical jolt up through the car.
From doing much research and after a very informative chat with Chris Witter (at the time head of Ohlins UK) I ended up ordering their 4x damper package in Feb '13 from GNJ Motorsport on here.
After a few weeks we were told that the 4x damper package ordered for the Mk5 Golf had been discontinued. But by way of a goodwill gesture was offered a good deal on the new coilover set up. So decided to take that option.
Now spending £2400 on coilovers and fitting them to a 2007 Ed30 is probably madness and not for everyone.
But for me pound for pound it's been the best mod ever done on my car. And cheaper than a new car.
The ride quality is now just what I wanted/searched/hoped for.
The whole car has been transformed (we also did further mods to optimise the Ohlins - Supapro bushes/adjustable ball joints etc etc).
But for UK roads with the car set on 15 clicks all road. 5 from the softest setting. It's very stable and lumps and bumps are just dealt with without massive jolts up through the car.
So you end up not noticing the extra speed the car easily builds/carries on bumpy roads.
The DFV dual flow valving makes the damper effectively 'surf' off bumps and it really works.
Expensive but truly exceptional.
Will post up a full review when I get more time.
But as a quick summary...my best ever mod.
And sometime fully intend to track the car as well to try the new diff/Ohlins together.
So even though this Road & Track Ohlins set up is the cheapest product they make. It's still a quality product and most definitely uses their suspension expertise.
Can you tell I'm pleased with this suspension???
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Thanks for the review..if you ever to track the car please share with us again :) What do you mean by "to try the new diff/Ohlins together" ?
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Thanks for the review..if you ever to track the car please share with us again :) What do you mean by "to try the new diff/Ohlins together" ?
While it was in getting the Ohlins fitted at AKS. Took Alex's advice and had a Peloquin High Torque lsd installed to my Golf.
Uprated clutch and new dmf too. The car had quite an update. The results are simply superb on road.
Hence I want to see how the diff/Ohlins work on track sometime when damper stiffness is raised.
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Cool, I have a Peloquin too but for suspension I'm using a Bilstein B16. Since the car is mostly for track use I'm still trying to convince myself if it's worth the upgrade from an already very good coilover to a linear spring suspension like Ohlins or Bilstein Clubsport !
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I'm sure on track the Bilsteins work brilliantly.
My desire was to principally improve my car on road.
And the dual flow valving in the Ohlins dampers was for me the major design element to hopefully give road compliance. And it does.
The extra adjustability for track use is for me an extra bonus.
I think the fact they call these coilovers Road and Track in that order probably says it all. Their design aim is to produce a compliant and smooth riding damper. The ride feels quality damped.
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I'm sure on track the Bilsteins work brilliantly.
My desire was to principally improve my car on road.
And the dual flow valving in the Ohlins dampers was for me the major design element to hopefully give road compliance. And it does.
The extra adjustability for track use is for me an extra bonus.
I think the fact they call these coilovers Road and Track in that order probably says it all. Their design aim is to produce a compliant and smooth riding damper. The ride feels quality damped.
~
Bernhard30 where are you based.....we will have to get together at sometime as I am interested in comparing this set with mine. I am running KW Clubsports which is the second set up. I was seriously considering the B16 set up but I couldn't try before I bought as there was noone local who had this set up. Another factor was that I wanted the adjustable camber set up for track. I had experienced KW V3's which are a nice set up but are less orientated for track.
I run a Eibach Race Coilover on my MK2 and have previously run Leda and a more road biased set up using Koni / Eibach. Trouble with many track only dampers are just too stiff for road use.
My experience of Clubsports is that they have good road compliance and soaks up imperfections nicely and are very absorbent. They can also be wound up super stiff when needed.
I initially went with 2 degrees -ve but have gone back to 1.5 degrees -ve as it was too aggressive for road use (Too twitch on the front on motorway) .
I would have liked to try the Bilstein B16 set up I agree that it seems the more expensive suspension set ups are in a class of their own.
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I'm sure on track the Bilsteins work brilliantly.
My desire was to principally improve my car on road.
And the dual flow valving in the Ohlins dampers was for me the major design element to hopefully give road compliance. And it does.
The extra adjustability for track use is for me an extra bonus.
I think the fact they call these coilovers Road and Track in that order probably says it all. Their design aim is to produce a compliant and smooth riding damper. The ride feels quality damped.
~
Bernhard30 where are you based.....we will have to get together at sometime as I am interested in comparing this set with mine. I am running KW Clubsports which is the second set up. I was seriously considering the B16 set up but I couldn't try before I bought as there was noone local who had this set up. Another factor was that I wanted the adjustable camber set up for track. I had experienced KW V3's which are a nice set up but are less orientated for track.
I run a Eibach Race Coilover on my MK2 and have previously run Leda and a more road biased set up using Koni / Eibach. Trouble with many track only dampers are just too stiff for road use.
My experience of Clubsports is that they have good road compliance and soaks up imperfections nicely and are very absorbent. They can also be wound up super stiff when needed.
I initially went with 2 degrees -ve but have gone back to 1.5 degrees -ve as it was too aggressive for road use (Too twitch on the front on motorway) .
I would have liked to try the Bilstein B16 set up I agree that it seems the more expensive suspension set ups are in a class of their own.
Based in the North East mate. No probs for a hook up.
Your Mk 2 sounds like fun.
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I'm sure on track the Bilsteins work brilliantly.
My desire was to principally improve my car on road.
And the dual flow valving in the Ohlins dampers was for me the major design element to hopefully give road compliance. And it does.
The extra adjustability for track use is for me an extra bonus.
I think the fact they call these coilovers Road and Track in that order probably says it all. Their design aim is to produce a compliant and smooth riding damper. The ride feels quality damped.
~
Bernhard30 where are you based.....we will have to get together at sometime as I am interested in comparing this set with mine. I am running KW Clubsports which is the second set up. I was seriously considering the B16 set up but I couldn't try before I bought as there was noone local who had this set up. Another factor was that I wanted the adjustable camber set up for track. I had experienced KW V3's which are a nice set up but are less orientated for track.
I run a Eibach Race Coilover on my MK2 and have previously run Leda and a more road biased set up using Koni / Eibach. Trouble with many track only dampers are just too stiff for road use.
My experience of Clubsports is that they have good road compliance and soaks up imperfections nicely and are very absorbent. They can also be wound up super stiff when needed.
I initially went with 2 degrees -ve but have gone back to 1.5 degrees -ve as it was too aggressive for road use (Too twitch on the front on motorway) .
I would have liked to try the Bilstein B16 set up I agree that it seems the more expensive suspension set ups are in a class of their own.
Based in the North East mate. No probs for a hook up.
Your Mk 2 sounds like fun.
You're a bit of way for me....I'm based in Somerset.
Here's a link to my previous Vee dubs including my MK2 16V which is dry stored for winter.....it does more miles around Castle Combe in the summer than on the road!!
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?219049-My-2-Litre-MK2-16V-Toy-my-other-tasty-Vee-Dubs!
I normally run this on Dunlop Inters for track. It's so competent on track the MK5 struggles against it's pure raw speed and light weight and that bhp/ton sublime feeling you get with a well set up 16V. I used to race MK2's in the early 90's and hill climbed a few. The MK5 is great but you have to spend serious amounts to get it into a super track orientated set up.....much more than the valver. I have been down this road before.
I'm popping up to Awesome I suspect very soon or maybe after Xmas for a full stage APR stage 2+ set up with RSC and VWR intake. Getting some VWR brakes at end of month hopefully then it will be a diff clutch and sticky rubber. Should be flyer...not that it isn't already.
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I'm sure on track the Bilsteins work brilliantly.
My desire was to principally improve my car on road.
And the dual flow valving in the Ohlins dampers was for me the major design element to hopefully give road compliance. And it does.
The extra adjustability for track use is for me an extra bonus.
I think the fact they call these coilovers Road and Track in that order probably says it all. Their design aim is to produce a compliant and smooth riding damper. The ride feels quality damped.
~
Bernhard30 where are you based.....we will have to get together at sometime as I am interested in comparing this set with mine. I am running KW Clubsports which is the second set up. I was seriously considering the B16 set up but I couldn't try before I bought as there was noone local who had this set up. Another factor was that I wanted the adjustable camber set up for track. I had experienced KW V3's which are a nice set up but are less orientated for track.
I run a Eibach Race Coilover on my MK2 and have previously run Leda and a more road biased set up using Koni / Eibach. Trouble with many track only dampers are just too stiff for road use.
My experience of Clubsports is that they have good road compliance and soaks up imperfections nicely and are very absorbent. They can also be wound up super stiff when needed.
I initially went with 2 degrees -ve but have gone back to 1.5 degrees -ve as it was too aggressive for road use (Too twitch on the front on motorway) .
I would have liked to try the Bilstein B16 set up I agree that it seems the more expensive suspension set ups are in a class of their own.
Based in the North East mate. No probs for a hook up.
Your Mk 2 sounds like fun.
You're a bit of way for me....I'm based in Somerset.
Here's a link to my previous Vee dubs including my MK2 16V which is dry stored for winter.....it does more miles around Castle Combe in the summer than on the road!!
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?219049-My-2-Litre-MK2-16V-Toy-my-other-tasty-Vee-Dubs!
I normally run this on Dunlop Inters for track. It's so competent on track the MK5 struggles against it's pure raw speed and light weight and that bhp/ton sublime feeling you get with a well set up 16V. I used to race MK2's in the early 90's and hill climbed a few. The MK5 is great but you have to spend serious amounts to get it into a super track orientated set up.....much more than the valver. I have been down this road before.
I'm popping up to Awesome I suspect very soon or maybe after Xmas for a full stage APR stage 2+ set up with RSC and VWR intake. Getting some VWR brakes at end of month hopefully then it will be a diff clutch and sticky rubber. Should be flyer...not that it isn't already.
The link to your MK2 Golf looks pretty cool. Might have to try and get to Castle Combe next season for a passenger ride in it.
You could try the Ohlins perhaps.
As said in previous posts my aim was to improve the road ride. And I'd noticed more tuned cars mainly in Evo mag running Ohlins stuff. Some 997's and the Polestar Volvo V60? for example. It got me onto exploring high end suspension/damping.
There is some stuff on You Tube for the RT Ohlins range. One video has Tim Harvey trying this suspension on an Evo X.
I think (guess) there are probably equally good suspension set ups for track use. But feel that on road the Ohlins compliance is their stand out feature.
Had the image on McGuiness going full tonk across the TT Mountain and his Ohlins bike suspension taking the punishment while he gets a smooth ride. Know my Ed30 is not gonna handle like his race Fireblade but some of the damping control on road is what I was after achieving. As stated earlier it's probably my best mod to my Mk5.
Have you still got Ed30 number 30 then? I've seen it in Volkswagen driver magazine etc.
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I'm sure on track the Bilsteins work brilliantly.
My desire was to principally improve my car on road.
And the dual flow valving in the Ohlins dampers was for me the major design element to hopefully give road compliance. And it does.
The extra adjustability for track use is for me an extra bonus.
I think the fact they call these coilovers Road and Track in that order probably says it all. Their design aim is to produce a compliant and smooth riding damper. The ride feels quality damped.
~
Bernhard30 where are you based.....we will have to get together at sometime as I am interested in comparing this set with mine. I am running KW Clubsports which is the second set up. I was seriously considering the B16 set up but I couldn't try before I bought as there was noone local who had this set up. Another factor was that I wanted the adjustable camber set up for track. I had experienced KW V3's which are a nice set up but are less orientated for track.
I run a Eibach Race Coilover on my MK2 and have previously run Leda and a more road biased set up using Koni / Eibach. Trouble with many track only dampers are just too stiff for road use.
My experience of Clubsports is that they have good road compliance and soaks up imperfections nicely and are very absorbent. They can also be wound up super stiff when needed.
I initially went with 2 degrees -ve but have gone back to 1.5 degrees -ve as it was too aggressive for road use (Too twitch on the front on motorway) .
I would have liked to try the Bilstein B16 set up I agree that it seems the more expensive suspension set ups are in a class of their own.
Based in the North East mate. No probs for a hook up.
Your Mk 2 sounds like fun.
You're a bit of way for me....I'm based in Somerset.
Here's a link to my previous Vee dubs including my MK2 16V which is dry stored for winter.....it does more miles around Castle Combe in the summer than on the road!!
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?219049-My-2-Litre-MK2-16V-Toy-my-other-tasty-Vee-Dubs!
I normally run this on Dunlop Inters for track. It's so competent on track the MK5 struggles against it's pure raw speed and light weight and that bhp/ton sublime feeling you get with a well set up 16V. I used to race MK2's in the early 90's and hill climbed a few. The MK5 is great but you have to spend serious amounts to get it into a super track orientated set up.....much more than the valver. I have been down this road before.
I'm popping up to Awesome I suspect very soon or maybe after Xmas for a full stage APR stage 2+ set up with RSC and VWR intake. Getting some VWR brakes at end of month hopefully then it will be a diff clutch and sticky rubber. Should be flyer...not that it isn't already.
The link to your MK2 Golf looks pretty cool. Might have to try and get to Castle Combe next season for a passenger ride in it.
You could try the Ohlins perhaps.
As said in previous posts my aim was to improve the road ride. And I'd noticed more tuned cars mainly in Evo mag running Ohlins stuff. Some 997's and the Polestar Volvo V60? for example. It got me onto exploring high end suspension/damping.
There is some stuff on You Tube for the RT Ohlins range. One video has Tim Harvey trying this suspension on an Evo X.
I think (guess) there are probably equally good suspension set ups for track use. But feel that on road the Ohlins compliance is their stand out feature.
Had the image on McGuiness going full tonk across the TT Mountain and his Ohlins bike suspension taking the punishment while he gets a smooth ride. Know my Ed30 is not gonna handle like his race Fireblade but some of the damping control on road is what I was after achieving. As stated earlier it's probably my best mod to my Mk5.
Have you still got Ed30 number 30 then? I've seen it in Volkswagen driver magazine etc.
No that was my first Edition.
It was a great package but I sold it and bought another car in between.
My MK2 is tucked up for the winter.
This Edition is still low miles....done a few bits but having the dilema of do I chuck thousands at it or buy an RS4 or E90 M3!
Was considering APR stage 2+ diff, clutch intake FMIC brake kit ....there goes £7-8k!!
Tried M3 recently....very very nice except bland inside....just like any other 3 series....VEL not nice at £490 and sub 17mpg!!
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Sub 17 mpg...blimey that would put me off.
A guy over the road has a DCT M3 with foldey roof. White on black alloys. Always sounds pretty cool when he guns it away.
In our 20mph limit housing estate..!!
Anyway back to Ohlins. Drove a new GTi with Perf.Pack today. Brand new suspension felt like driving a washing machine compared to my nearly 7 year old Ed30. A graphic illustration of expensive damping.
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Hello guys. Been on a trip to Nurburgring for the past 5 days and rented the Swift Sport stage 2 from rent4ring. The car had the Ohlins R&T coilover so it was a perfect way for me to see how it behaves. First of all, had a little chat with the guys there (some of them professional racing drivers). They said they used Bilstein B16 in the past and pulled them out of all cars because of some really bad experiences (crashes on high performance cars with very good drivers). Thjey also said Bilstein clubsport is much better but still not good enough for the money. Their recommendation in terms of a good track suspension went to KW clubsport and Ohlins R&T. Don't know if they were biased, I'm just telling what they've said. On my little Suzuki the Ohlins was set to 12/20 so I took it for a drive. As I was on my 10th lap there I started slow and gradually increased corner speed as I was starting to learn the track. My first impression of this coilover was the butter smooth behavior as compared to my very rough B16 (different cars but don't think that matters that much). Although they were so smooth the damping was amazingly fast on the Nordschleife and the high speed control very good. Where my B16 was very "jumpy" on the track, this one absorbed all the irregularities without the car mooving so much vertically (this also translated into more driving confidence). Thinking seriously of switching to the Ohlins on the future !
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The questions is though have you set your B16s up to their optimum setup?
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Well, I tried several settings but at least mine is very hard and rough even on the softest setting. On less than ideal roads the car is quite annoying to drive. However, drove several other cars with B16 (more than 10) and all behaved differently with mine being the stiffest (took into account wheels, car weight...)
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Wondering if this is a real deal or just a price mistake :) > http://www.aktivperformanceparts.co.uk/golf-mk5-2004-2007/ohlins-vw-golf-gti-mk5-coilover-suspension-kit-2003-2008-2211229-381829-823418.php
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Ohlins FTW, had Nitrons before. Cost me £750, but worth every penny. Comfortable and handled well. Shame a car needs four of them ! Makes it oh so expensive.
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Wondering if this is a real deal or just a price mistake :) > http://www.aktivperformanceparts.co.uk/golf-mk5-2004-2007/ohlins-vw-golf-gti-mk5-coilover-suspension-kit-2003-2008-2211229-381829-823418.php
Hopefully just a price mistake :wink:
Or quoting for the previous discontinued version, which are virtually non existent, which i tried to get from all sorts of places all around the globe.
Let us know if you have any success.
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No success, they didn't even bother to answer emails. As you said the price was probably for the old "damper only" version !
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Ok, guys. My Ohlins R&T finally arrived. Made some measurements and pics. Will post the pics when the camber plates will be here. Also had a set for the Nissan GT-R in my house which I measured too and will post here for comparison :
Front damper weight :
Bilstein B16 > 3831g
Ohlins R&T GTI > 3451g
Ohlins R&T GT-R > 1901g but also has an aluminium fork and 2 rings that give an extra 1073g. The total weight is still much less than on GTI and it seems to be made of some kind of anodised aluminium instead of brushed stainless steel or whatever they've used for the GTI.
Rear damper weight :
Bilstein B16 > can't find it
Ohlins R&T GTI > 1792g
Ohlins R&T GT-R > 1532g
Front spring weight :
Bilstein B16 > 1444g (39N/mm as posted by Bruce) & 11mm wire diameter
Ohlins R&T GTI > 1061g (70N/mm) & 11mm wire diameter
Ohlins R&T GT-R > 2108 (160N/mm)
Rear spring weight :
Bilstein B16 > can't find it & 12.5mm wire diameter
Ohlins R&T GTI > 1208g (60N/mm) & 11mm wire diameter
Ohlins R&T GT-R > 2185g (90N/mm)
Fully equipped Front coil :
Bilstein B16 > 5275g
Ohlins R&T GTI > 4715g (- 560g from B16)
Fully equipped Rear coil :
Bilstein B16 > can't find it
Ohlins R&T GTI > 3572g
PS : Measuring of the B16 was done many years ago with a different scale and only for the fronts (when'I've replaced the front springs). Will measure them again with the same scale when I'll take them out and clean them !
PS2 : Build quality is amazing on thse babies and I just can't wait till the spring to have them installed
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Ok, it's time for a review after my first track day with this coilover
The road to the track and back > Set it at 7 clicks on front and 10 clicks on rear (0 is hardest) and the ride is just superb. Small bumps, tram rails or small potholes are just hardly noticeable where with my old B16 my breath was literally stopping from the vertical accelerations. Steering is a little bit less responsive than B16 at low speeds (under 60kmh) and similar after that. Roll control is amazing at high speeds (over 140kmh) where you can clearly see Ohlins is superior.
The track > Went 3 times on our recently opened track, 2 times with B16 and now with the Ohlins. Started with the setting mentioned above and the car was understeering pretty bad, knowing the turns are very tight on exit which punsishes FWD cars already. Left the front on 7 and moved the rear from 10 to 7 and felt the car imediately changed behaviour to neutral which led to better corner exit. Afterwards I've tried 5F and 5R and towards the end of the day had my best time with 3F and 3 rear. I must say the steps are very noticeable as compared to B16 where they were quite vague. For this track, I will next time try 3F and 1 rear to see if I can make the car oversteer a little bit. I must mention that with F & R set equal, I couldn't make the rear loose traction no matter how hard I tried. The car was simply sliding totally neutral. At the end of the day, my time was only 0.5sec faster than with B16 (1min46.2sec) but can't really compare since on one hand I learned the track better at the last visit but on the other hand my R888s were over the thread markers and the track temps were higher on the last visit (40degC as opposed to an optimal of 20-30degC)
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Ok, it's time for a review after my first track day with this coilover
The road to the track and back > Set it at 7 clicks on front and 10 clicks on rear (0 is hardest) and the ride is just superb. Small bumps, tram rails or small potholes are just hardly noticeable where with my old B16 my breath was literally stopping from the vertical accelerations. Steering is a little bit less responsive than B16 at low speeds (under 60kmh) and similar after that. Roll control is amazing at high speeds (over 140kmh) where you can clearly see Ohlins is superior.
The track > Went 3 times on our recently opened track, 2 times with B16 and now with the Ohlins. Started with the setting mentioned above and the car was understeering pretty bad, knowing the turns are very tight on exit which punsishes FWD cars already. Left the front on 7 and moved the rear from 10 to 7 and felt the car imediately changed behaviour to neutral which led to better corner exit. Afterwards I've tried 5F and 5R and towards the end of the day had my best time with 3F and 3 rear. I must say the steps are very noticeable as compared to B16 where they were quite vague. For this track, I will next time try 3F and 1 rear to see if I can make the car oversteer a little bit. I must mention that with F & R set equal, I couldn't make the rear loose traction no matter how hard I tried. The car was simply sliding totally neutral. At the end of the day, my time was only 0.5sec faster than with B16 (1min46.2sec) but can't really compare since on one hand I learned the track better at the last visit but on the other hand my R888s were over the thread markers and the track temps were higher on the last visit (40degC as opposed to an optimal of 20-30degC)
Great review
Was considering Bilsteins on my new ED30 but Ohlins and KW Clubsports seem like the top notch contenders
Had two sets of Clubsports so I know how good they are
Need to sort brakes out before DSG/ Power / Diff
Slippery slope again!!
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I was chatting to alex about his ohlins the other day, he recons the springs on them are softer than the Bilstein PSS10, which would possible lead them to being a bit more compliant.
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No way, they are much stiffer than PSS10...it's the damper that makes him believe Ihlins is more compliant. PSS10 is progressive 51N rear & 39N front while Ohlins is linear 60N rear & 70N front. I've also compressed them by hand and Ohlins were much stiffer !
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Thanks for this review !!
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I've now changed to 80nm front and 70nm rear. Transformed them on the vRS. I run solid front top mounts so also had to run a helper spring for when the car is raised.
I had the B16's on before and they were stiffer with less roll in the corners than the ohlins. Changing to the stiffer springs on the ohlins has improved the roll and smoothed the overall ride.
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Alex, where did you buy these springs from? Öhlins, Eibach, H&R?
Are they 65 mm dia and/or do more common 60 mm ones also fit?
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Alex, where did you buy these springs from? Öhlins, Eibach, H&R?
Are they 65 mm dia and/or do more common 60 mm ones also fit?
Alex?? We are waiting for your answer :popcornsoda:
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Alex, where did you buy these springs from? Öhlins, Eibach, H&R?
Are they 65 mm dia and/or do more common 60 mm ones also fit?
Alex?? We are waiting for your answer :popcornsoda:
Bought them through ground Control as I needed different cups for the top mounts. Had to add a helper spring too. They supplied eibach springs. Stayed at the same diameter.
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They must be 65mm, otherwise they won't fit. Swift makes every possible spring. Found the exact same sizes I have from Ohlins on Swift's page but if going much stiffer I suppose you need to shorten the springs a bit if you want to keep the same ride height !?
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Agree, for example if go from 50 N/mm (rear) to 70 N/mm and the supplied
ones are 180 mm, I'd try 160 mm ones instead. Anyway, check pretension
and if required, add a helper spring (5 to 10 N/mm).
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I know it's an old thread, but other than fab5freddy, has anyone else recently taken the Ohlins plunge?
Trying to get technical details and advice on the upper rung coilovers is quite tricky as so few people use them.
My queries are:
Do they REALLY need 30K rebuilds? It's a road car only, so this would be annoying. I know some people say you don't need coilovers on a road car, but I disagree. It's just a method of attaching a spring/damper to a car.....the DFV dampers are still a benefit on the road.
Where can I get 1" longer springs for them? I want to run them at factory ride height. Even -20mm is causing me clearance problems on the road with stock wheels (no spacers).
Can these be used with the Race spec Ground control top mounts?
Basically, I'm aiming to get the flattest cornering without using ARBs. I'd rather do it with springs, dampers and geometry.
Thanks!
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@Bernhard30 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2604)
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Someone whose opinion I value highly told me recently Öhlins coilies are noisy. Bilstein Clubsport were mentioned as a better alternative. Make of that what you will!
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I know it's an old thread, but other than fab5freddy, has anyone else recently taken the Ohlins plunge?
Trying to get technical details and advice on the upper rung coilovers is quite tricky as so few people use them.
My queries are:
Do they REALLY need 30K rebuilds? It's a road car only, so this would be annoying. I know some people say you don't need coilovers on a road car, but I disagree. It's just a method of attaching a spring/damper to a car.....the DFV dampers are still a benefit on the road.
Where can I get 1" longer springs for them? I want to run them at factory ride height. Even -20mm is causing me clearance problems on the road with stock wheels (no spacers).
Can these be used with the Race spec Ground control top mounts?
Basically, I'm aiming to get the flattest cornering without using ARBs. I'd rather do it with springs, dampers and geometry.
Thanks!
@Bernhard30 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2604) and @fuscobal (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1393) might be able to weigh in with the rebuild scenario. Mark uses his for road use only i believe, whereas Fuscobal would do a lot of track days, so might be varied results there, both are probably around that mileage now possibly??
These just landed today :jumpmove: Finally getting them fitted on Wednesday
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fi353%2Ffab5freddy1%2FIMG_3517_zpsipw9gyua.jpg&hash=c7124be0abec63e6de84933c1156ae35e2c2eaec)
This was the missing piece of the puzzle to mate them with the ground control camber plates.
Alex @ AKS would be the best person to talk to regards getting a custom longer spring id say
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Someone whose opinion I value highly told me recently Öhlins coilies are noisy. Bilstein Clubsport were mentioned as a better alternative. Make of that what you will!
Ouchies, £3.5K :surprised:
TBH I'm not sure I trust Bilsteins. I've had them before and they leaked. After trawling various forums on the PSS9/10, it seems they are still renowned for leaking if driven hard. Their high speed compression valving is waaaaay too harsh for my tastes as well, which makes urban driving very crashy. They do however have epic body control at high speeds, and seasonal damping consistency I've not experienced on any other kit.
Do you know if this Ohlins user has solid top mounts, or is it just the damper valves are just noisy?
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I know it's an old thread, but other than fab5freddy, has anyone else recently taken the Ohlins plunge?
Trying to get technical details and advice on the upper rung coilovers is quite tricky as so few people use them.
My queries are:
Do they REALLY need 30K rebuilds? It's a road car only, so this would be annoying. I know some people say you don't need coilovers on a road car, but I disagree. It's just a method of attaching a spring/damper to a car.....the DFV dampers are still a benefit on the road.
Where can I get 1" longer springs for them? I want to run them at factory ride height. Even -20mm is causing me clearance problems on the road with stock wheels (no spacers).
Can these be used with the Race spec Ground control top mounts?
Basically, I'm aiming to get the flattest cornering without using ARBs. I'd rather do it with springs, dampers and geometry.
Thanks!
@Bernhard30 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2604) and @fuscobal (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1393) might be able to weigh in with the rebuild scenario. Mark uses his for road use only i believe, whereas Fuscobal would do a lot of track days, so might be varied results there, both are probably around that mileage now possibly??
These just landed today :jumpmove: Finally getting them fitted on Wednesday
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fi353%2Ffab5freddy1%2FIMG_3517_zpsipw9gyua.jpg&hash=c7124be0abec63e6de84933c1156ae35e2c2eaec)
This was the missing piece of the puzzle to mate them with the ground control camber plates.
Alex @ AKS would be the best person to talk to regards getting a custom longer spring id say
Thanks mate. Shiny new parts, I like!
I'm trying to avoid helper springs and also excessive preload. It's disappointing Ohlins don't use the more recent way of adjusting the height (threaded body instead of winding the spring up/down) but never mind, you can't have everything. I've read that as supplied, with 3mm of preload, the ride height is -20mm or something around there. So my plan is to use 1" longer springs with the preset position which should push it back up to OEM height....in theory!
I'm at AKS on the 18th, so I'll have a chat with Alex about this and some other options maybe.
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If high spring rates are what you're after, the TT boys rave about GAZ Gold coilovers. They're custom made in the U.K. To your spec so take a few weeks to put together. Good for track cars as you can specify stiffer springs.
Apparently after sales support is good too.
I priced them up for my mk1 TT track car at £980 from memory, but I wasn't patient enough to wait the 4 week lead time so got some ST XA's (basically KW v2's), which were a couple of hundred cheaper too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If high spring rates are what you're after, the TT boys rave about GAZ Gold coilovers. They're custom made in the U.K. To your spec so take a few weeks to put together. Good for track cars as you can specify stiffer springs.
Apparently after sales support is good too.
I priced them up for my mk1 TT track car at £980 from memory, but I wasn't patient enough to wait the 4 week lead time so got some ST XA's (basically KW v2's), which were a couple of hundred cheaper too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the recommendation but I suffered severe quality issues with a set of those on my Corrado. That was about 11 years ago though, so I would hope things have improved since then, but the experience has put me off them for life unfortunately.
Besides which, they don't list anything for the MK5 platform, which I think is due to fierce competition from established and well respected rivals. The VW aftermarket is dominated by the European tuners, so a tough market to get into for a small UK company.
Gaz are predominantly ex Leda employees, and Leda were kind of niche motorsport damper makers back in the day. MK2 Escorts and the like, so that was and probably still is their main customer base.
Ohlins generally find their way onto some of the best cars in the world, but that doesn't necessarily make them the best for this application......it's mainly the dual flow valving to soften sharp bumps that interests me. And I like monotubes.....just not Bilsteins because their high speed compression valving is ridiculously stiff, which doesn't feel settled until you're travelling at very naughty speeds on the roads.
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I really think they are OTT for a road car. Some KW V3's would be just as good on the road with change left over!
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Awesome are running a KW promo just now with £300 off v3.
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@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) Have you looked into AST? They make coilovers with adjustable top mounts and from what I was told they perform just as good as Öhlins.
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I've had V3s and I'm not a fan. Pretty crap for the money if I want to be perfectly frank about it :smiley:
Cheers mate, I saw Awesome's promotion but I still wouldn't buy them if they were £1000 cheaper.....except maybe to sell on after they'd gone back to full price :grin:
@Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) Yeah I looked at the 5100 1 way (~ £1500) and the 5200 2 ways (~£3k+) and the Ohlins are certainly better value than the 5200! Ideally I'd like some 3 ways to tune the high speed compression to my local roads, but they are stupid money and take several weeks to get after raising the order. Ohlins DFV strikes the perfect balance between a very good 1 way and a competition spec 3 way.....in theory. Just need to try a car with them fitted to see if my 'man calcs' a born out in reality.
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@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I was told that AST has the same internals as Ohlins, so I thought the DFV would also be present.
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There's no mention of it on their website. Maybe they only have that on the more expensive race units.
Edit - just seen it's an extra cost option. AST call it DDP, Double Digressive Pistons. You only get it on the undriven axle as well apparently, so not sure how that would work on 4WD cars!
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I know it's an old thread, but other than fab5freddy, has anyone else recently taken the Ohlins plunge?
Trying to get technical details and advice on the upper rung coilovers is quite tricky as so few people use them.
My queries are:
Do they REALLY need 30K rebuilds? It's a road car only, so this would be annoying. I know some people say you don't need coilovers on a road car, but I disagree. It's just a method of attaching a spring/damper to a car.....the DFV dampers are still a benefit on the road.
Where can I get 1" longer springs for them? I want to run them at factory ride height. Even -20mm is causing me clearance problems on the road with stock wheels (no spacers).
Can these be used with the Race spec Ground control top mounts?
Basically, I'm aiming to get the flattest cornering without using ARBs. I'd rather do it with springs, dampers and geometry.
Thanks!
@Bernhard30 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2604) and @fuscobal (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1393) might be able to weigh in with the rebuild scenario. Mark uses his for road use only i believe, whereas Fuscobal would do a lot of track days, so might be varied results there, both are probably around that mileage now possibly??
These just landed today :jumpmove: Finally getting them fitted on Wednesday
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fi353%2Ffab5freddy1%2FIMG_3517_zpsipw9gyua.jpg&hash=c7124be0abec63e6de84933c1156ae35e2c2eaec)
This was the missing piece of the puzzle to mate them with the ground control camber plates.
Alex @ AKS would be the best person to talk to regards getting a custom longer spring id say
Guys just seen my name mentioned in this thread.. sorry I hadn't noticed it before.
Just by way of info for this topic...
Yes my Ohlins R&T coil overs that Alex fitted for me in 2013 are still in use and have now done 36K miles. Road use only. They are not making any noticeable noise. And still damp the car exceptional well.
In terms of any required rebuilds I have spoke to Mick Gardner Racing at Barnsley (Ohlins North distributors/experts) a couple of times over the course of owning and running these and a rebuild requirement has never been mentioned in any conversation. [I will mention if not already outlined in this thread..that my set had a build issue after about 6 months on the car..the initial batch of coilovers were not welded enough and so the ARB/link attachment bracket came away..so after a few months my fronts were actually rebuilt at MGR at Barnsley with 'beefier outer casings' (not a technical term but you'll get the gist).
But I have never directly asked MGR if these do need a rebuild..so when I get chance I will ask them.
Honestly these are still the best mod I have fitted..well worth the money IMO. But they were and are a big wad of cash..but as I've said before it was cheaper than a Mk7 R at the time. And still makes my Ed30 a car that does all I need it to do..even though the car is now 10 years old.
In my experience Ohlins and MGR at Barnsley are both tremendous firms big on customer satisfaction and I think you get a first class product and back up.
Once I speak to them about rebuild requirements (if any) I will post up.
Cheers. Mark
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But I have never directly asked MGR if these do need a rebuild..so when I get chance I will ask them.
Honestly these are still the best mod I have fitted..well worth the money IMO. But they were and are a big wad of cash..but as I've said before it was cheaper than a Mk7 R at the time. And still makes my Ed30 a car that does all I need it to do..even though the car is now 10 years old.
Once I speak to them about rebuild requirements (if any) I will post up.
Cheers. Mark
Please do. If I could be assured of a solid 50k+ miles I would jump at a set of Ohlins. Would mean I would be happy to keep my GTI for another 10 years.
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That sounds encouraging. 36K in and no rebuilds yet. What top mounts and spring rates did you go with Bernhard? There seems to be a feeling the supplied 70nm, 60nm springs are a bit on the soft side?
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That sounds encouraging. 36K in and no rebuilds yet. What top mounts and spring rates did you go with Bernhard? There seems to be a feeling the supplied 70nm, 60nm springs are a bit on the soft side?
So I rang MGR at Barnsley today as I was curious.
Their view is that like all suspension components extreme or punishing use will obviously affect ultimate lifespan between any rebuilds that may be required. They also tell me that whilst the official Ohlins word is that they recommend regular rebuilds are done - the reality is that unless it''s a racing damper they never touch these R&T units unless seals have gone and fluid is leaking.
But if that is the case then about £200 rebuilds the damper to 'as new'.
I'd say their knowledge of Ohlins products and suspension in general is really exceptional and they are always super helpful. Drop them a mail/call if you need anything else.
And with regard to my spring rates..couldn't say exact spec. I just use the springs as supplied in the box in 2013. But I certainly wouldn't think you'd need firmer springs..but as mentioned before mine so far has only been used on road. But I intend to try it on track 'sometime'..
As said - still very happy with what ride quality and damping these give me.
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Thanks for that, very useful and helpful info :happy2:
I'm a lot more convinced now than I was a couple of weeks ago!
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.....Where can I get 1" longer springs for them? I want to run them at factory ride height. Even -20mm is causing me clearance problems on the road with stock wheels (no spacers).
Thanks!
Reading through the Ohlins fitment guide https://www.ohlins.com/app/uploads/world/2016/10/MI_VWSMI10.pdf today I noticed this: (excuse the formating)
Front:
The adjustment range is the standard position
-7 to +15 mm.
The actual vehicle height
With both the preload and height adjustments in
their standard positions, the vehicle is lowered
approximately 20mm when compared to the
original suspension. As the height adjuster is
turned one rotation, the position moves 2.0 mm.
Before driving, always make sure that the
basic settings made by Öhlins are according
to recommended Set-up Data. Read about
adjustments and setting up in the Öhlins
Owner's Manual before you make any
adjustments. Contact an Öhlins dealer if you
have any questions about setting up the
shock absorber.
Recommended set-up
Rebound setting
Track 0-7 clicks
Winding road 5-10 clicks
Street 10-20 clicks
Spring preload 2 mm
Shock absorber length 497mm
Spring
Spec H180, ID65,70 N/mm
The standard preload is 2 mm from a free
length of 180 mm, giving 178 mm installed
length, see fig ③.
Rear:
The adjustment range is the standard position
±15 mm. If the bracket is moved outside the
adjustment range, it may come loose.
The actual vehicle height
With both the preload and height adjustments in
their standard positions, the vehicle is lowered
approximately 20 mm when compared to the
original suspension. As the height adjuster is
turned one rotation, the position moves 1.5 mm.
Before driving, always make sure that the
basic settings made by Öhlins are according to
recommended Set-up Data. Read about
adjustments and setting up in the Öhlins
Owner's Manual before you make any
adjustments. Contact an Öhlins dealer if you
have any questions about setting up the shock
absorber.
Recommended set-up
Rebound setting
Track 0-7 clicks
Winding road 5-10 clicks
Street 10-20 clicks
Spring preload adjuster height 35 mm
Shock absorber length 541 mm
Spring
Spec H200, ID65, 60 N/mm
Now I'm no rocket scientist, but I take that ^ to mean that the recommended setting for the Ohlins R&T is -20mm from standard ride height. But.....both front and rear can be raised +15mm from the recommended (-20mm) setting. Which would mean a -5mm drop from standard ride height, no?
Close enough for me, if this is the case.
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Yeah I saw that cheers Steven, but from my understanding of it, to get the standard height you'd need to pre-load the spring quite a lot, which isn't good for ride quality....and the spring could potentially go coil bound sooner. Therefore the best solution is to leave the threaded collars in their default position and go for longer springs. 230mm rear and 200mm front would do it :smiley: It adds about £250 to the bill though :confused:
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Yeah I saw that cheers Steven, but from my understanding of it, to get the standard height you'd need to pre-load the spring quite a lot, which isn't good for ride quality....and the spring could potentially go coil bound sooner. Therefore the best solution is to leave the threaded collars in their default position and go for longer springs. 230mm rear and 200mm front would do it :smiley: It adds about £250 to the bill though :confused:
Cheers.
Bugger - that's just getting too $$$$ for me. Leaves me with the FSDs....or VWR dampers with new OE springs, if I'm feeling brave :wink:
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Yeah I saw that cheers Steven, but from my understanding of it, to get the standard height you'd need to pre-load the spring quite a lot, which isn't good for ride quality....and the spring could potentially go coil bound sooner. Therefore the best solution is to leave the threaded collars in their default position and go for longer springs. 230mm rear and 200mm front would do it :smiley: It adds about £250 to the bill though :confused:
Cheers.
Bugger - that's just getting too $$$$ for me. Leaves me with the FSDs....or VWR dampers with new OE springs, if I'm feeling brave :wink:
Kind of feeling like giving up on this as well. Too many caveats and gotchas to deal with for a daily car. Apparently these 'cheap' Ohlins (pronounced 'erlins' ??) are made in the far east. I wonder if that's why they need rebuilding every 30K? :grin:
Not a fan of Koni. Appalling reliability/quality. The reputation they had in the 90s for quality is long gone. They went all cheap on manufacture like everyone else, but still charged the same prices. Lifetime warranty is handy though, and you will need it!
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Yeah I saw that cheers Steven, but from my understanding of it, to get the standard height you'd need to pre-load the spring quite a lot, which isn't good for ride quality....and the spring could potentially go coil bound sooner. Therefore the best solution is to leave the threaded collars in their default position and go for longer springs. 230mm rear and 200mm front would do it :smiley: It adds about £250 to the bill though :confused:
Cheers.
Bugger - that's just getting too $$$$ for me. Leaves me with the FSDs....or VWR dampers with new OE springs, if I'm feeling brave :wink:
Kind of feeling like giving up on this as well. Too many caveats and gotchas to deal with for a daily car. Apparently these 'cheap' Ohlins (pronounced 'erlins' ??) are made in the far east. I wonder if that's why they need rebuilding every 30K? :grin:
Not a fan of Koni. Appalling reliability/quality. The reputation they had in the 90s for quality is long gone. They went all cheap on manufacture like everyone else, but still charged the same prices. Lifetime warranty is handy though, and you will need it!
Feeling the same way, Kev. That mk7 GTI is looking tastier by the day!
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Yeah I saw that cheers Steven, but from my understanding of it, to get the standard height you'd need to pre-load the spring quite a lot, which isn't good for ride quality....and the spring could potentially go coil bound sooner. Therefore the best solution is to leave the threaded collars in their default position and go for longer springs. 230mm rear and 200mm front would do it :smiley: It adds about £250 to the bill though :confused:
Cheers.
Bugger - that's just getting too $$$$ for me. Leaves me with the FSDs....or VWR dampers with new OE springs, if I'm feeling brave :wink:
Kind of feeling like giving up on this as well. Too many caveats and gotchas to deal with for a daily car. Apparently these 'cheap' Ohlins (pronounced 'erlins' ??) are made in the far east. I wonder if that's why they need rebuilding every 30K? :grin:
Not a fan of Koni. Appalling reliability/quality. The reputation they had in the 90s for quality is long gone. They went all cheap on manufacture like everyone else, but still charged the same prices. Lifetime warranty is handy though, and you will need it!
Not heard any problems from Koni dampers yet. My mechanic has fitted lots of them with just good feedback from its customers. That's why he recommended me to buy the Koni FSD for my family Golf and the Koni Sport for my daily Ed. 30. They weren't that expensive either. FSD cost me 539 € (£481 at current exchange rate) and the Sport cost me 464 € (£415 at current exchange rate).
I've fitted the Koni FSD in Dec/2013 and the car has done 80.000 km/49.700 miles so far and without any issue.
The Koni Sport were fitted in Sep/2015 and the car has done 16.000 km/10.000 miles (4 track days) and the suspension is still fresh (as I expected it to be).
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I was told that I can also get the Koni dampers repaired in their factory in my country for a cheap price too, which helped making the decision over the Bilstein B8.
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Yeah I saw that cheers Steven, but from my understanding of it, to get the standard height you'd need to pre-load the spring quite a lot, which isn't good for ride quality....and the spring could potentially go coil bound sooner. Therefore the best solution is to leave the threaded collars in their default position and go for longer springs. 230mm rear and 200mm front would do it :smiley: It adds about £250 to the bill though :confused:
Surely just a 20mm drop wont' have any issues with rubbing with standard wheels and tyres? loads of people run lower than that? bernard30 are you running your Ohlins at 20mm drop? are you running them with standard top caps? I am seriously considering a set of these! A hell of a lot of cash but in my mind if they are that good and last well probably money better spent than money on average dampers and then other bits to try to make it handle better like uprated anti rolls bars etc. Even thinking that subtle suspension will help with traction if it is not skipping/ hopping over bumps so might negate the need for a locking diff somewhat (I am probably on the verge of needing one with 300 ish bhp)
For me it would be a set of these and then standard everything else and use the damping adjustments front to rear to help tweek the handling. Bernard30 how have they stood up to the salt/ winter? do you use the car all year around? did you get all the suspension bushes refreshed when you got the fitted or is it all original ?
where is the best place to buy these from? .........and where can I get a discount !;)
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Yeah I saw that cheers Steven, but from my understanding of it, to get the standard height you'd need to pre-load the spring quite a lot, which isn't good for ride quality....and the spring could potentially go coil bound sooner. Therefore the best solution is to leave the threaded collars in their default position and go for longer springs. 230mm rear and 200mm front would do it :smiley: It adds about £250 to the bill though :confused:
Cheers.
Bugger - that's just getting too $$$$ for me. Leaves me with the FSDs....or VWR dampers with new OE springs, if I'm feeling brave :wink:
Kind of feeling like giving up on this as well. Too many caveats and gotchas to deal with for a daily car. Apparently these 'cheap' Ohlins (pronounced 'erlins' ??) are made in the far east. I wonder if that's why they need rebuilding every 30K? :grin:
Not a fan of Koni. Appalling reliability/quality. The reputation they had in the 90s for quality is long gone. They went all cheap on manufacture like everyone else, but still charged the same prices. Lifetime warranty is handy though, and you will need it!
Not heard any problems from Koni dampers yet. My mechanic has fitted lots of them with just good feedback from its customers. That's why he recommended me to buy the Koni FSD for my family Golf and the Koni Sport for my daily Ed. 30. They weren't that expensive either. FSD cost me 539 € (£481 at current exchange rate) and the Sport cost me 464 € (£415 at current exchange rate).
I've fitted the Koni FSD in Dec/2013 and the car has done 80.000 km/49.700 miles so far and without any issue.
The Koni Sport were fitted in Sep/2017 and the car has done 16.000 km/10.000 miles (4 track days) and the suspension is still fresh (as I expected it to be).
Maybe they got their act together then because ~2000 I had Koni Sports TAs fail on me 3 times on a MK2. ~2003, same again on a Corrado VR6. ~2007 FSDs on a MK4 GTI, rusted out and then blew seals. I'm glad they are working for currently, but I won't be using them again :smiley:
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Oops! The Koni Sport were fitted in Sep/2015, not in the future: Sep/2017! :ashamed: :signLOL:
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Yeah I saw that cheers Steven, but from my understanding of it, to get the standard height you'd need to pre-load the spring quite a lot, which isn't good for ride quality....and the spring could potentially go coil bound sooner. Therefore the best solution is to leave the threaded collars in their default position and go for longer springs. 230mm rear and 200mm front would do it :smiley: It adds about £250 to the bill though :confused:
Surely just a 20mm drop wont' have any issues with rubbing with standard wheels and tyres? loads of people run lower than that? bernard30 are you running your Ohlins at 20mm drop? are you running them with standard top caps? I am seriously considering a set of these! A hell of a lot of cash but in my mind if they are that good and last well probably money better spent than money on average dampers and then other bits to try to make it handle better like uprated anti rolls bars etc. Even thinking that subtle suspension will help with traction if it is not skipping/ hopping over bumps so might negate the need for a locking diff somewhat (I am probably on the verge of needing one with 300 ish bhp)
For me it would be a set of these and then standard everything else and use the damping adjustments front to rear to help tweek the handling. Bernard30 how have they stood up to the salt/ winter? do you use the car all year around? did you get all the suspension bushes refreshed when you got the fitted or is it all original ?
where is the best place to buy these from? .........and where can I get a discount !;)
Mine has rubbed a few times at -20mm, or what ever the actual drop is on the GTI with Racingline springs. Because they (and like everyone else) use 1 spring/damper for an entire model range, it's hard to know for sure.
Agree with everything else you've said. I don't want bigger ARBs either as they unsettle the car on mid corner bumps. I guess these are still an option, potentially, but wanting standard ride height (which isn't exactly lofty as standard) puts me at a handicap it seems. Odd it should be that way because every suspension maker knows, or should know, that going too low messes with the Roll center and can actually make the car slower and bump steer more.
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Yeah I saw that cheers Steven, but from my understanding of it, to get the standard height you'd need to pre-load the spring quite a lot, which isn't good for ride quality....and the spring could potentially go coil bound sooner. Therefore the best solution is to leave the threaded collars in their default position and go for longer springs. 230mm rear and 200mm front would do it :smiley: It adds about £250 to the bill though :confused:
If this BRZ R&T coilover kit is the same design as the GTI one, it appears ride height is independent of spring pre-load. See 1:30 in the following video (skip the first minute and a bit, which is marketing guff). So if I understand correctly, ride would be consistent across the full range of ride height for that specific kit.
See images of the GTI kit here (can't seem to post an image here, sorry), but it looks to me like the spring seats front and rear (and therefore ride height?) are adjustable without affecting spring length: https://www.ohlins.eu/en/products/automotive/vws-mi10--36/
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Cheers Steven :happy2:
Well, after all my procrastinating, pondering, waffling, to'ing and fro'ing in my mind of cost vs function blah blah.....I've just ordered the Ohlins :signLOL:
The VWR kit is just too soft for me. Amazing kit for the money and really does solve the standard setup's choppiness over small bumps, but when you press on past 7/10ths, it loses talent too quickly for my tastes. 95% of people will love the VWR setup, but boo for me, I'm in that hard to please 5%.
Full wordy review to come :happy2:
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Yeah I saw that cheers Steven, but from my understanding of it, to get the standard height you'd need to pre-load the spring quite a lot, which isn't good for ride quality....and the spring could potentially go coil bound sooner. Therefore the best solution is to leave the threaded collars in their default position and go for longer springs. 230mm rear and 200mm front would do it :smiley: It adds about £250 to the bill though :confused:
If this BRZ R&T coilover kit is the same design as the GTI one, it appears ride height is independent of spring pre-load. See 1:30 in the following video (skip the first minute and a bit, which is marketing guff). So if I understand correctly, ride would be consistent across the full range of ride height for that specific kit.
See images of the GTI kit here (can't seem to post an image here, sorry), but it looks to me like the spring seats front and rear (and therefore ride height?) are adjustable without affecting spring length: https://www.ohlins.eu/en/products/automotive/vws-mi10--36/
Just to confirm, the GTI struts are not the 'length adjustable' type.
See page 6 in the owners manual - https://www.ohlins.eu/download/db/Ohlins_DTC_oehlins-road-track-owners-manual--00000142.pdf
The wording "If your shock absorber is of the length adjustable type, spring load and ride height can be changed individually". Since the manual is generic for the entire R&T range, the operative word there is, "If" :smiley:
So longer springs it is if you want factory or taller ride height, but I'll try them as supplied first and see what the ride height looks like.
Something to note with some length adjustable struts - the space needed for the variable length sacrifices the damper travel and oil/gas volume. The GTI's damper travel is not that long as standard. It's a lot less than a base model Golf for example. I guess Ohlins felt a full sweep damper was more appropriate for this application.
Length adjustable struts -
(https://h-tune.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/890x/1de31ae3985e40ef357cef6941f13357/o/h/ohlins_9.jpg)
Fixed struts -
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fperformanceshock.com%2Fbmz_cache%2Ff%2Ff48318c617797ccc54f1087ea1b95dfd.image.500x310.jpg&hash=87ce2a1c771bcea0adaeee698cc8c092347e3801)
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Thanks for that info, Kev. What a bummer. :sad1:
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@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) - would you be able to post the weights of both the Ohlins and VWR units? It would be interesting to see what impact there is on unsprung weight. Thx!
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@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) - would you be able to post the weights of both the Ohlins and VWR units? It would be interesting to see what impact there is on unsprung weight. Thx!
Sure thing mate, I had exactly that in mind already :happy2:
Coilovers are a lot lighter anyway being considerably smaller than normal struts and springs, but if it's the ultimate in low weight you want, you need FRP (Fibre Reinforced Plastic) springs :smiley:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.worldcarfans.co%2F2014%2F6%2F30%2Fbig%2F16477430591985084864.jpg&hash=f9b68ff371dfe203f014ff0f8462f423fd91c6ff)
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FRP springs? Hmm interesting! The only car I can think of which uses them is the Megane Trophy. That also uses Ohlins and shares quite a bit in common with the Mk5 wrt fwd / weight yadda yadda. It even looks like someone else has been thinking the same judging by the question on the link below
http://www.invetr.com/chassis/megane-rs-275-trophy-r-allevard-composite-springs
Some more bumpf in here
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-germancars/audi-to-use-grp-springs/30276
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Apparently one of the Audi A6 TDI cars uses them as well. As well as being lighter, they are a lot quieter as well. Less road noise transmitted into the cabin, which is always welcome!
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I'm running BC coilovers on my mk5 track car and can't fault them :happy2:
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Which ones? RA or ER?
Some hefty spring rates available on the RAs!
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RA, yes i saw that. i'm a newb when it comes to track setup but 2 track days in and she handles well!
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RA, yes i saw that. i'm a newb when it comes to track setup but 2 track days in and she handles well!
What was the spring rates that you choose btw? Not that I know what are the ideal for my car, anyway. Just for reference. :smiley:
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Interesting.....
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The good ship Ohlins has docked and offloaded some tasty treats :pomppomp:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4358/36153958563_7fc2b9b4c7_b.jpg)
Not entirely convinced these naff welds on the drop link bracket are going to hold for long. Not a lot of penetration there. I guess the damper tube is pretty thin and they can't go mad in case it warps the tube or blows through, but we shall see if they hold up to some Millennium Falcon G forces in the corners. Hopefully I can do the home to Tesco run in 2 parsecs.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4431/36153957863_09c094e4e6_b.jpg)
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The good ship Ohlins has docked and offloaded some tasty treats :pomppomp:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4358/36153958563_7fc2b9b4c7_b.jpg)
Not entirely convinced these naff welds on the drop link bracket are going to hold for long. Not a lot of penetration there. I guess the damper tube is pretty thin and they can't go mad in case it warps the tube or blows through, but we shall see if they hold up to some Millennium Falcon G forces in the corners. Hopefully I can do the home to Tesco run in 2 parsecs.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4431/36153957863_09c094e4e6_b.jpg)
Hey wait parsecs are a measure of distance not time!
Didn't want to leave you hanging there :P , interesting to see what you think of them and for your eventual review. Would've thought you'd have gone for something more along the lines of KW DDC ECU coilovers, essentially adjustable by electric.
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That is a very good point sir! My buddy Hans did the Kessel run in 12 parsecs, so I just stole his boasting methods :grin:
I thought I'd try something different this time buddy. I've tried numerous coilovers over the years..... Bilstein, H&R, Gaz Gold, KW V3, Koni to name but a few. They all had their merits....KW by far the market leader for corrosion resistance being (inox) stainless, and Gaz Gold had epic ride quality, so let's see what Captain Oliver Lhin has to offer :smiley:
I've researched them quite a lot. Forums, youtube video reviews etc etc. One comment from a youtube vlogger that stood out was he couldn't feel the impact of cats eyes at all. You certainly can with the OEM suspension and the aforementioned kits. That speaks volumes about how fast the DFV valves work. You can also see that behaviour in action in that clip I posted above :happy2:
I was mega impressed with the RacingLine kit. If I am equally impressed by this kit, that'll be me done with the suspension tuning, finally :happy2:
Oh and the rebuild frequency is 30,000 KM not miles :confused: Not a cheap game this :doh:
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That is a very good point sir! My buddy Hans did the Kessel run in 12 parsecs, so I just stole his boasting methods :grin:
I thought I'd try something different this time buddy. I've tried numerous coilovers over the years..... Bilstein, H&R, Gaz Gold, KW V3, Koni to name but a few. They all had their merits....KW by far the market leader for corrosion resistance being (inox) stainless, and Gaz Gold had epic ride quality, so let's see what Captain Oliver Lhin has to offer :smiley:
I've researched them quite a lot. Forums, youtube video reviews etc etc. One comment from a youtube vlogger that stood out was he couldn't feel the impact of cats eyes at all. You certainly can with the OEM suspension and the aforementioned kits. That speaks volumes about how fast the DFV valves work. You can also see that behaviour in action in that clip I posted above :happy2:
I was mega impressed with the RacingLine kit. If I am equally impressed by this kit, that'll be me done with the suspension tuning, finally :happy2:
Oh and the rebuild frequency is 30,000 KM not miles :confused: Not a cheap game this :doh:
Lol could've got a higher profile tyres if you hated cats eyes that much :p , but that does sound seriously impressive for more "sporty" suspension albeit for every 30,000 km.
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That is a very good point sir! My buddy Hans did the Kessel run in 12 parsecs, so I just stole his boasting methods :grin:
I thought I'd try something different this time buddy. I've tried numerous coilovers over the years..... Bilstein, H&R, Gaz Gold, KW V3, Koni to name but a few. They all had their merits....KW by far the market leader for corrosion resistance being (inox) stainless, and Gaz Gold had epic ride quality, so let's see what Captain Oliver Lhin has to offer :smiley:
I've researched them quite a lot. Forums, youtube video reviews etc etc. One comment from a youtube vlogger that stood out was he couldn't feel the impact of cats eyes at all. You certainly can with the OEM suspension and the aforementioned kits. That speaks volumes about how fast the DFV valves work. You can also see that behaviour in action in that clip I posted above :happy2:
I was mega impressed with the RacingLine kit. If I am equally impressed by this kit, that'll be me done with the suspension tuning, finally :happy2:
Oh and the rebuild frequency is 30,000 KM not miles :confused: Not a cheap game this :doh:
Lol could've got a higher profile tyres if you hated cats eyes that much :p , but that does sound seriously impressive for more "sporty" suspension albeit for every 30,000 km.
I've got some 205/55/16 winters and they give a super plush ride, but they also remove the 'GTI' ness! GTIs need a little thuggishness in the corners and over bumps....but not too much!
I'll play the 30K thing by ear. That's 2 years of driving for me, so probably about right for servicing. OEM struts are built to much higher tolerances because they have to last 100K miles....but that tightness increases friction, and friction is the enemy of performance....and performance = shorter life span. Vicious circle!
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I can only drool over your new Öhlins, Pudding! I hope they meet or pass your expectations. :drinking:
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I can only drool over your new Öhlins, Pudding! I hope they meet or pass your expectations. :drinking:
Thanks matey :happy2:
Well I fitted them today. A nice leisurely 5 hours including replacing both outer CV gaiters as they looked a bit tired.
I went with TTRS top mounts up front and the rears lose both the rubber spring pads, but you don't get any noise in the cabin :happy2:
I will do a full review soon, but I am absolutely blown away by these coilovers :surprised: Everything is perfect.... the ride height...the damping....the spring rates.....the ride quality.....it's all exceptionally well judged by Ohlins for a road car :notworthy:
A nice little weight saving up front vs VWR struts, and the rear assembly is approx 1kg lighter per corner.
I've had many sets of coilovers over the years but these are just something else entirely. Think go kart firmness but with better than OEM ride quality, in fact, make that LOTS better than OEM ride quality. Finally the suspension I've always wanted. The Racingline kit is fantastic for the money, but this is in a whole different league :happy2:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4343/36812311202_086fd90f0e_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4347/36795791336_6a8462a9a4_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4362/36795794356_6f90c31683_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4429/36812311912_29993579dc_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4353/36812310762_9b77e77cf4_b.jpg)
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Good work Pudding!
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They sound brilliant, Kev. Now you've had the chance to have a good look, do you think they can be wound up to near standard ride height without affecting their attributes?
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Good work Pudding!
Thanks mate. That rubbery squeaking over speed humps we discussed has disappeared with the TT/RS3 top mounts :happy2:
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They sound brilliant, Kev. Now you've had the chance to have a good look, do you think they can be wound up to near standard ride height without affecting their attributes?
Yeah there is enough adjustment to wind them up standard ride height. Ohlins recommend no more than +15mm above the default setting (2mm preload) as the preload would be excessive, so I'd probably do it with longer springs if I was to raise it up, but I'm happy with the height :happy2:
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After checking where's my local Öhlins official dealer I think if I ever have the funds available, I'll get them too. The local dealer and repair shop is only at around 15 miles from me. :smiley:
Your ride height is spot on for me as well. :wink:
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Good man :happy2:
Yep, Ohlins have made the installation and ride height incredibly fast and simple. Their kits have a minimum 6 months development and you can tell that immediately on the first bump you hit and the first corner you take :happy2:
It's nice to see an accurate -20mm compared to VWR's -20mm :grin:
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Good man :happy2:
Yep, Ohlins have made the installation and ride height incredibly fast and simple. Their kits have a minimum 6 months development and you can tell that immediately on the first bump you hit and the first corner you take :happy2:
It's nice to see an accurate -20mm compared to VWR's -20mm :grin:
Very impressive I've been tempted by this kit on various occasions but have never been able to justify the cost on what is now a 10 year old car. I've searched high and low on US forums for the original diaper kit but have been unlucky as many sellers won't ship internationally.
Once you've given a formal review I might just bite the bullet or compromise for now and get the VWR dampers to match the springs.
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Good man :happy2:
Yep, Ohlins have made the installation and ride height incredibly fast and simple. Their kits have a minimum 6 months development and you can tell that immediately on the first bump you hit and the first corner you take :happy2:
It's nice to see an accurate -20mm compared to VWR's -20mm :grin:
Are you still happy with the coilovers? Did you track them and how was the performance... In the market for adjustable coilovers and look for feedback.