MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 08:21:32 am

Title: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 08:21:32 am
Hey guys,

Sick of going on about this now to be fair...

Had a problem with my battery draining all of a sudden. I bought a new battery and car electrics went mental and in the end it kinda fixed itself (the electrical problem that is). However battery was still draining. Took it to Eddie off this forum and he tested every fuse in the car multiple times and said there is nothing running that shouldn't be. Everything is going to sleep as it should.

Drove home and battery died a week later. Went and changed the battery for a good Bosch one just incase the battery was faulty. I've had it in for a week... didn't drive my car yesterday so I thought id check on it this morning and it was completely dead again. I've had the alternator checked and is working fine and is chargning the battery. The battery doesn't die over night... it seems to be when I haven't driven it for a couple of days. it is dying to the point that it is completely flat.

I really don't know what else to do. Something is draning the battery very very quickly. The canbus and things like that seem to be all fine. Another forum member said it could be a faulty boot or door switch but if intermitent could be hard to find. There are no lights staying on when I lock the car. Checked the glove compartment light and that is turning off including the boot light.

Any other thoughts??? Really really stuck for what else to do :(

Craigh
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on April 08, 2014, 08:27:47 am
What is the full spec of your batteries?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 08:33:10 am
What is the full spec of your batteries?

Previous New one I bought was...
Exide Excell Battery 075 3 Year Guarantee
Exide Excell Batteries are high quality and high performance batteries for everyday applications. They are normally recommended for standard cars, with standard electronic systems. For higher drain systems we recommend using Exide Premium batteries.
•Amp Hours: (Ah): 60Ah•Cold Cranking Amp: (CCA): 610CCA•Length: 242mm•Width: 175mm•Height: 175mm

The one I have in now is...
Bosch S5 Battery 027 5 Year Guarantee
•Amp Hours: (Ah): 63Ah•Cold Cranking Amp: (CCA): 610

Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on April 08, 2014, 08:49:09 am
What is the full spec of your batteries?

Previous New one I bought was...
Exide Excell Battery 075 3 Year Guarantee
Exide Excell Batteries are high quality and high performance batteries for everyday applications. They are normally recommended for standard cars, with standard electronic systems. For higher drain systems we recommend using Exide Premium batteries.
•Amp Hours: (Ah): 60Ah•Cold Cranking Amp: (CCA): 610CCA•Length: 242mm•Width: 175mm•Height: 175mm
Holy crap Batman - Exide batteries are truly shyte.  :sick:

And 075 60Ah is well below standard specification!


The one I have in now is...
Bosch S5 Battery 027 5 Year Guarantee
•Amp Hours: (Ah): 63Ah•Cold Cranking Amp: (CCA): 610
027 is also well under spcification.

The correct OEM spec is 72Ah, CCA 380A DIN, 640A EN/SAE.  This equates to a UK battery ref 096.  The Mk5 is VERY picky about having the correct spec battery.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 09:02:27 am
Would the 027 cause that much battery drain though?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 09:03:00 am
And would it really die in just 2 days still?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: rich83 on April 08, 2014, 09:18:28 am
Maybe its not charging correctly... Could be a dodgy alternator?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 09:19:20 am
Maybe its not charging correctly... Could be a dodgy alternator?

Had the alternator checked by about 3 people with a multimeter and they all said it was working
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on April 08, 2014, 10:02:57 am
Would the 027 cause that much battery drain though?
It's not the battery 'drain' per se - it's simply the fact that lower capacity batteries simply can't 'store' enough power when the engine is running.  Then when you stop the car and lock up, it can be up-to two hours later before all electrical modules go to sleep.  And don't forget that TIM settings on your RDS head unit can draw power for two hours twice daily, even if the car isn't used.

The fact that not enough power was stored, systems running on, RDS auto updating . . . . and then two or three days later, your battery doesn't have enough juice to start the car.

Like I said, they are extremely sensitive to the correct spec battery.  My GTI had the wrong battery fitted at the factory - instead of mine being fitted with the correct 72Ah, CCA 380A DIN, 640A EN/SAE spec, it was fitted with a 70Ah, CCA 340A DIN, 570A EN/SAE - and we would frequently be stranded due to a flat battery.  After MANY visits to my truely incompetent stealer, banging my head against the wall to fit the correct battery, and being denied - I had to go to VW UK Customer Care, threatening them with Trading Standards regulations (not as described, not fit for purpose) - they then instructed my stealer to fit the correct 72Ah - and that correct item was perfect, and never let me down for seven and a half years.

Who sold you those incorrect batteries?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on April 08, 2014, 10:04:52 am
Maybe its not charging correctly... Could be a dodgy alternator?
Doubt it - battery warning light would come on in the dash.  And multiple DTCs will be logged across various modules during normal running.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: marko on April 08, 2014, 10:22:26 am
So what value of amps is being drawn from the battery when the car is locked ???
In my opinion the battery is not really the issue..something is draining the storage in the battery regardless of weather it's the right size battery or not.
Lock the car with bonnet open and put amp clamp across the cables on the battery and get the reading after about 5 minutes.

What version can gateway is fitted??
Aftermarket radio??
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: rich83 on April 08, 2014, 10:31:03 am
So what value of amps is being drawn from the battery when the car is locked ???
In my opinion the battery is not really the issue..something is draining the storage in the battery regardless of weather it's the right size battery or not.
Lock the car with bonnet open and put amp clamp across the cables on the battery and get the reading after about 5 minutes.

What version can gateway is fitted??
Aftermarket radio??

If eddie did it correctly all current drains have been checked... so in theory its not a parasitic current draw problem.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 10:34:57 am
I'd make sure that everything on the canbus network is 100% in sleep mode.

Any single wire faults indicate a can bus system error and will potentially mean certain control units remain in an awake state, which will flatten the battery pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 10:41:49 am
So what value of amps is being drawn from the battery when the car is locked ???
In my opinion the battery is not really the issue..something is draining the storage in the battery regardless of weather it's the right size battery or not.
Lock the car with bonnet open and put amp clamp across the cables on the battery and get the reading after about 5 minutes.

What version can gateway is fitted??
Aftermarket radio??

If eddie did it correctly all current drains have been checked... so in theory its not a parasitic current draw problem.

Yea Eddie did check every single fuse and then waited until everything was sleeping and every single time he did it they all went to sleep. He must have checked them about 5 times over.

This is so frustrating as I just wanna get it sorted. I can't keep coming back to my car to find it not working :/
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 10:43:49 am
So he did a current drain test from the battery terminal?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 10:45:55 am
So he did a current drain test from the battery terminal?

I would have thought so. He is one of the best at this kinda thing so I would have thought he would have done that :)
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: rich83 on April 08, 2014, 10:51:19 am
Do you have a multimeter? If so its a piece of piss to whip the negative terminal off and put the meter in series between the neg. terminal on the battery and the neg. clamp. That will tell you 100% if you have a parasitic drain.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 11:07:18 am
So he did a current drain test from the battery terminal?

I would have thought so. He is one of the best at this kinda thing so I would have thought he would have done that :)

If he did it correctly and you had no current drain then it quite clearly points to a faulty battery.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 11:20:20 am
So he did a current drain test from the battery terminal?

I would have thought so. He is one of the best at this kinda thing so I would have thought he would have done that :)

If he did it correctly and you had no current drain then it quite clearly points to a faulty battery.

Well I thought that so I went and changed it to the s5 and it's still happening. So that's 3 different batteries. The original oem one, the excide and the Bosch.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 11:31:59 am
Then there MUST be a current draw from something.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: rich83 on April 08, 2014, 11:34:52 am
You need to check for battery drain... until you do that and 100% make sure there isnt a drain there is nothing more anyone can do to help you.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 11:36:19 am
Then there MUST be a current draw from something.

It must be intermittent as nothing was drawing power in the time Eddie was testing it. John from the forum still thinks it could even be a faulty boot or door switch or a relay. But as it's intermittent it's very hard to find :/
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 11:37:35 am
You need to check for battery drain... until you do that and 100% make sure there isnt a drain there is nothing more anyone can do to help you.

There must be a drain but an intermittent one.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: rich83 on April 08, 2014, 11:41:32 am
You need to check for battery drain... until you do that and 100% make sure there isnt a drain there is nothing more anyone can do to help you.

There must be a drain but an intermittent one.

Get the mulitmeter out and check  :happy2:
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 11:45:07 am
You need to check for battery drain... until you do that and 100% make sure there isnt a drain there is nothing more anyone can do to help you.

There must be a drain but an intermittent one.

Get the mulitmeter out and check  :happy2:

But if it's intermittent how do I do that?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 12:05:41 pm
Keep trying until the fault is current! (No pun intended). By the sounds of it it occurs quite frequently.

Have you a recent full fault code scan or access to VCDS?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Eddie-NL on April 08, 2014, 12:11:38 pm
I'd make sure that everything on the canbus network is 100% in sleep mode.

Any single wire faults indicate a can bus system error and will potentially mean certain control units remain in an awake state, which will flatten the battery pretty quickly.

This was done by me and nothing was draining when tested, which I did a couple of times

The unfortunate thing is unless this is done everytime the car is locked you won't know what circuit is draining as the fault is intermittent
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 12:25:53 pm
Keep trying until the fault is current! (No pun intended). By the sounds of it it occurs quite frequently.

Have you a recent full fault code scan or access to VCDS?

Monday,03,March,2014,15:48:09:58336
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 12.12.2.0
Data version: 20140212

Workshop Code: 210 00152 091233

VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ6W063666   License Plate: CRAIG GTI
Mileage: 191540km-119017mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1K (7N0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 47 52 56 62 72

VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ6W063666   Mileage: 191540km/119017miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
47-Sound System -- Status: Malfunction 0010
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: Malfunction 0010
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 115     HW: 1K0 907 115
   Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI  00 0070 
   Revision: --H01---    Serial number: VWZ7Z0E2580322
   Coding: 0403000318070060
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: E3CF08F322B6D806665-80B6

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 Q    HW: 1K0 907 379 Q
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102 
   Revision: 00T12001   
   Coding: 0004738
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 4085677F1360231EDB7-8015

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1K0-907-044.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 907 044 AT
   Component: ClimatronicPQ35 066 0606 
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 79F3CA9B303AB2D6DC9-802C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 3C0-937-049-23-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 3C0 937 049 E    HW: 3C0 937 049 E
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H37 1002 
   Revision: 00H37000    Serial number: 00000005085538
   Coding: E58D0F2700041800001400001400000000087F075C
   Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
   VCID: 2B5F20D38AE6D0461E5-807E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K2 955 119 C  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer VW350  013  0402 
   Coding: 00065493
   Shop #: WSC 00000 

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 T  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AF.CLB
   Component: RegenLichtSens 011  1110 
   Coding: 00207646
   Shop #: WSC 00000 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 N    HW: 1K0 909 605 N
   Component: 2F AIRBAG VW8   015 2100 
   Revision: 03015000    Serial number: 0038ED0M7Y8N 
   Coding: 0012870
   Shop #: WSC 01269 785 00200
   VCID: 37770CA346AE64A66AD-8062

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MSME0C09616EJ

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MSME0C07161ED

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6351HSME08475C1FJ

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6361HSME084D2645A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 AF    HW: 1K0 953 549 AF
   Component: Lenksäulenmodul 634 0070 
   Coding: 0000012
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 76E9C1A70124DDAEB1B-8023

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 1K6 920 972
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 1212 
   Coding: 0003403
   Shop #: WSC 00011 888 96745
   VCID: EFE774C3FE7E6C66F2D-80BA

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels: 7N0-907-530-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 7N0 907 530 C    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533  Gateway H37 0614 
   Revision:   H37       Serial number: 250511F1000734
   Coding: 350003
   Shop #: WSC 12345 123 12345
   VCID: 306537BF63C0B39E2B7-8065

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No: 1K6 920 972
   Component: IMMO            VDD 1212 
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: EFE774C3FE7E6C66F2D-80BA

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 701 K
   Component: Tuer-SG         024 2370 
   Coding: 0000692
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 366901A741A49DAE71B-8063

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
   Part No: 1K2 909 144 J
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.5   D04 1606 
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 336F38B352D68886565-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 AR    HW: 1K0 959 433 AR
   Component: 01 KSG PQ35 G2  010 0101 
   Revision: 00010000    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 819002085103087F2D04840570085FC690A440
   Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
   VCID: 8005277FD3E0631E1B7-80D5

   Subsystem 1 - Component:   Sounder No Answer     

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 907 719 C
   Component: Neigungssensor  005 0003

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1K0 951 177 A
   Component: Innenraumueberw.005 0202

1 Fault Found:
01134 - Alarm Horn (H12)
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 4
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 47
                    Mileage: 191542 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 15:05:40


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System        Labels: 3C0-035-456.lbl
   Part No: 1K6 035 456
   Component: 08K Audioverst.     0003 
   Revision: 00002000    Serial number: 00000000034819
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: E9D31ADBC09A8256AC9-80BC

2 Faults Found:
00876 - Treble Speaker Rear Left (R14)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00877 - Treble Speaker Rear Right (R16)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 702 K
   Component: Tuer-SG         024 2370 
   Coding: 0000692
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 37770CA346AE64A66AD-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J0503)       Labels: 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 3C8 035 195     HW: 3C8 035 195
   Component: Radio RCD510  040 0166 
   Revision: 00000001    Serial number: VWZ1Z3I5445758
   Coding: 0101000001
   Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
   VCID: E5CB16EBEC82A636881-80B0

1 Fault Found:
00856 - Radio Antenna
            007 - Short to Ground
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100111
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 47
                    Mileage: 191542 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 15:20:32


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 703 F
   Component: Tuer-SG         021 2429 
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 336F38B352D68886565-8066

1 Fault Found:
00937 - Switch for Electric Window; Rear Left (E52)
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels: 1K0-959-704-GEN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 704 F
   Component: Tuer-SG         021 2429 
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 346D3BAF57D88FBE4FF-8061

No fault code found.

End   ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 12:26:27 pm
Was there no "drive battery voltage" or "alternator df signal" faults stored?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 12:29:16 pm
Was there no "drive battery voltage" or "alternator df signal" faults stored?

Im not too sure mate :/ Eddie did the scan and I haven't a clue about scanning etc...
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 12:30:52 pm
You've got an alarm horn fault, That has an internal battery that when faulty will do nothing other than draw current from the battery until it's specified charge level is reached, with a dead battery cell it never will so it just flattens the main battery. Get the o/s/f arch liner off and disconnect it and see if it changes behaviour over the next week.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Eddie-NL on April 08, 2014, 12:32:34 pm
No

only other faults that were there were the items that were removed (No Inclination sensor, No radio, No interior monitoring) which I refitted prior to testing
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Eddie-NL on April 08, 2014, 12:34:39 pm
You've got an alarm horn fault, That has an internal battery that when faulty will do nothing other than draw current from the battery until it's specified charge level is reached, with a dead battery cell it never will so it just flattens the main battery. Get the o/s/f arch liner off and disconnect it and see if it changes behaviour over the next week.

All circuits were tested including this one, nothing

Also this is a very common fault on the Mk5 and other Vag cars
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 12:43:28 pm
I'm well aware of the alarm horn issues. I've had it on my own car but Disconnecting it has got to be worth a try For the OPs sake. Unless you mean that fault was induced when you tested the circuit and wasn't there before?

Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Eddie-NL on April 08, 2014, 01:18:20 pm
It is worth it, just not easy for someone if they don't have the right tools to do it

The circuit for the horn, motion sensors, inclination sensor didn't give a reading so was not drawing

Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 01:21:36 pm
I'm well aware of the alarm horn issues. I've had it on my own car but Disconnecting it has got to be worth a try For the OPs sake. Unless you mean that fault was induced when you tested the circuit and wasn't there before?



My alarm has never worked since the day I bought the car 2 years ago and the battery hasn't drained up until a couple of months back.

To be honest I just can't be arsed with all this now lol The car has been a bad one since the day I got it. problem after problem and I can't waste anymore time and energy and money on it. I may charge the battery up and part exchange it if I can't get to the bottom of this easily. I have no knowledge of all this kinda stuff so being able to get to the bottom of the problem is going to be very difficult :(

It's not even like I have a mate who is just around the corner who can spend the hours it needs on it.

Completely at a loss!
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: dan930 on April 08, 2014, 01:38:35 pm
I've also had this problem so brought a cheap 027 lion battery from europarts,all seems good for a month until it started to get colder during dec-jan...can't start the car if I didn't use it for 36hours...brought a Bosch s5 & touchwood all is ok for now
Here is the info i copied from the europarts page
Detailed Product Information
The Bosch S5 Battery range is ideal for vehicles with higher than normal electrical drains. Most modern vehicles are now fitted with heated seats, windscreens and other electrical drains. The Bosch S5 car battery is able to offer up to 30% more power compared to the factory fitted battery, Because of this is also have up to 30% longer service life. All Bosch S5 batteries are sealed and maintance free for maximum peace of mind
Amp Hours: (Ah): 74AhCold Cranking Amp: (CCA): 750CCALength: 278mmWidth: 175mmHeight: 175mm
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 02:29:41 pm
I can't see it being the battery to be honest mate. Drive around 100 miles over the weekend. Parked car up Sunday night and Tuesday morning completely flat. I would have thought the s5 can hold charge for more than 2 days.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 03:07:58 pm
I've seen door control modules cause problems like this when one of the can bus wires brakes but they usually log a single wire fault. Same time span for the battery to go flat too.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 03:21:53 pm
I've seen door control modules cause problems like this when one of the can bus wires brakes but they usually log a single wire fault. Same time span for the battery to go flat too.

John from the forum said he thinks it could be a door module or boot switch. How am I gonna tell it's that though? Do I just keep taking a voltage reading from the fuses every now n then to see if something has woken up?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 03:41:47 pm
Current drain test from the battery terminal, check their sleep status using live data on VCDS/vas or scope the wires, if there's anything other than a flat line then they're still drawing current.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Eddie-NL on April 08, 2014, 03:44:33 pm
checking via battery terminal is not the way to check on a CAN system as it doesn't pin point where the issue is
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 03:47:55 pm
checking via battery terminal is not the way to check on a CAN system as it doesn't pin point where the issue is

Well i'm going to try and test each fuse like you did Ed and see if I get anything from that. If not.. I'm getting rid of the car.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: MJ on April 08, 2014, 04:10:53 pm
checking via battery terminal is not the way to check on a CAN system as it doesn't pin point where the issue is

No but it will reveal if there's a voltage draw like on and 12v stand alone. It might not show what it at fault but it will prove a drain exists, hence the other two parts of the response which will pinpoint the issue.

What is the amp draw at the battery by the way?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: ryanpp on April 08, 2014, 04:26:10 pm
Hey,

I've had this issue too, and decided yesterday to pay VW £300 odd to do it. Just signed up to answer this :)

There were several reasons as to the drain:

- Alarm horn fault
- Aftermarket stereo - This was coded out of the ECU today, as when no VW stereo is present, the ECU CONSTANTLY searches for one.
- Auxiliary heater - This is the issue they are currently fixing, they believe there was a resistance to ground across something on the heater, hence the drain.

I'll update if I hear any more.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 05:18:17 pm
Hey,

I've had this issue too, and decided yesterday to pay VW £300 odd to do it. Just signed up to answer this :)

There were several reasons as to the drain:

- Alarm horn fault
- Aftermarket stereo - This was coded out of the ECU today, as when no VW stereo is present, the ECU CONSTANTLY searches for one.
- Auxiliary heater - This is the issue they are currently fixing, they believe there was a resistance to ground across something on the heater, hence the drain.

I'll update if I hear any more.

Cheers mate keep me posted!
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 05:19:44 pm
Did it cost u £300 for all the work and labour?

Thanks
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 08, 2014, 07:42:05 pm
Right guys,

I have a multimeter and im testing the fuses now to see if there is any drain

I want to make sure I am using it right so do I choose the V side or the A side? On the A side do I choose 20m or 200m? If its the V side then there is 2000m and 200m?

By the looks of it there is a drain on a lot of fuses. Its been nearly an hour now and they haven't gone to sleep! will try again later but help with the settings would be much appreciated :)

Thanks
Craigh
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fs534%2FCraigh_Bennett%2Ff2f8d5d6-69a9-4cb7-baf8-0eb7d6128da7_zps9110bf75.jpg&hash=0540e1fec64ad1e5688eaba91f02a406e63a1f22)
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: OSB on April 08, 2014, 08:23:12 pm
Switch to 10A for safety - it will be much less than this. Don't forget to plug the red lead into the hole next to the 10A
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: jamma on April 08, 2014, 08:44:03 pm
I had same problem , battery was fine but after three days was completely dead . VW took a look and it was my after market stereo draining the battery . All fixed now .
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on April 09, 2014, 08:53:04 am
Craig - you've now had TWO people telling you of problems caused by incorrectly specified lower capacity batteries - and those problems were CURED after fitting the correctly specified battery.  I really don't understand why you don't listen to and accept that factual advice?!?!?!?!   :indifferent:

If your engine blew up, and you had to get a replacement engine - would you fit, say, a 1.6 litre engine (presuming your car is a 2 litre GTI)????  No, so why are you appearing to accept that a lower spec battery is OK?

WHO sold you those incorrect batteries?  You need to take them back, and get a FULL refund - the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) states that a product must be "fit for purpose" - the batteries you were supplied are NOT fit for purpose.  :fighting:

Just stop fannying around, get the correct spec battery (I would personally recommend a Varta E44 - which is a 77Ah with a five year warranty) and your problems will be solved.!
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: ekaJ on April 09, 2014, 09:48:03 am
I was having battery drain issues and it was due to my heated mirrors being constantly on when left on the heated position. Not sure why it was doing it but now I leave it off the heated setting its been fine.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 09, 2014, 09:57:56 am
Craig - you've now had TWO people telling you of problems caused by incorrectly specified lower capacity batteries - and those problems were CURED after fitting the correctly specified battery.  I really don't understand why you don't listen to and accept that factual advice?!?!?!?!   :indifferent:

If your engine blew up, and you had to get a replacement engine - would you fit, say, a 1.6 litre engine (presuming your car is a 2 litre GTI)????  No, so why are you appearing to accept that a lower spec battery is OK?

WHO sold you those incorrect batteries?  You need to take them back, and get a FULL refund - the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) states that a product must be "fit for purpose" - the batteries you were supplied are NOT fit for purpose.  :fighting:

Just stop fannying around, get the correct spec battery (I would personally recommend a Varta E44 - which is a 77Ah with a five year warranty) and your problems will be solved.!
For a start.... There is no need to have an attitude!

Secondly... Exide batteries have a good reputation and I know many people who use them so that is just your opinion.
I also did a battery drain test last night with a multi meter... left the car for 2 hours and tested... the car isn;t going to sleep. There were very big drains on a few of the fuses so this is actually the cause. The battery may be incorrect and will need to be changed but when you say change your battery and all the problems will be solved, that is actually incorrect.


Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: rich83 on April 09, 2014, 10:07:39 am
Did you work out which circuits were pulling a current?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 09, 2014, 10:10:37 am
Did you work out which circuits were pulling a current?

Well I know the fuse numbers but I am going to do it again tonight to make sure I got the numbers right but it was Fuse19 in the engine bay that had the biggest drain. That is the stereo fuse if im correct. I left the car over 2 hours and checked again and they were still active. About 5 fuses. And I didnt even check the ones by the drivers side door. When Ed checked last time they were all going to sleep.

I am going to test again tonight and will post of the numbers.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: rich83 on April 09, 2014, 10:15:05 am
remind me/us.... aftermarket head unit? or rns510?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Eddie-NL on April 09, 2014, 10:37:20 am
RCD510 is the stereo

If the car doesn't go to sleep then the radio won't

When I did some testing there were about 5 circuits that didn't go to sleep straight away (after about 20 - 30 mins), then the relay in the engine fuse box clicked and power was cut on those.



Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 09, 2014, 11:00:41 am
RCD510 is the stereo

If the car doesn't go to sleep then the radio won't

When I did some testing there were about 5 circuits that didn't go to sleep straight away (after about 20 - 30 mins), then the relay in the engine fuse box clicked and power was cut on those.





To be honest Ed I think it was the exact same fuses that you looked at before that are now not switching off. There are about 6 of them... I remember them cutting out after 15 - 20 mins. But last night I pressed the bonnet latch down. armed the alarm and the little red light was flashing. I left it like that and checked after 20 minutes. then an hour and then 2 hours and the same fuses were all still active. Sods law I will try it again tonight and it will be a different story. But that obviously means that sometimes its going to sleep and sometimes its not.
These are the fuses in the engine bay that are staying active.

Fuse 3
Fuse16
Fuse 17
Fuse 18
Fuse 19
Fuse 24
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: eltel on April 09, 2014, 05:58:55 pm
Hi
I had the same issue fuse 19 draining ,everything pointed to the rns 510 and I had quite a few people look at it, in the end I had no choice and took it to vw Chelmsford they charged £132.00 +vat per hour it took him 3 hrs to find the drain , it turned out to be the climate panel and that was £300 but I had to wait 8 days for it to come.
So all im saying is sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and take it to vw its not cheap but if you want it sorted that's what I had to do.
Good luck :happy2:
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 09, 2014, 08:01:12 pm
Hi
I had the same issue fuse 19 draining ,everything pointed to the rns 510 and I had quite a few people look at it, in the end I had no choice and took it to vw Chelmsford they charged £132.00 +vat per hour it took him 3 hrs to find the drain , it turned out to be the climate panel and that was £300 but I had to wait 8 days for it to come.
So all im saying is sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and take it to vw its not cheap but if you want it sorted that's what I had to do.
Good luck :happy2:

Thanks for that info mate that's really interesting! And yea I may have to resort to take it to VW but like u said if I want it sorted for good then I may have to.
But first.... Here are the results from my battery drain test this evening.... They are absolutely terrible!!!!

Hi mate,

So with car all locked... left for 2 hours...

Fuse 3 is using 91ma
Fuse 16 is using 66ma
Fuse 17 is usage 33ma
Fuse 18 is using 123ma
Fuse 19 is using 747ma
Fuse 24 is using 73ma

No wonder my car is draining so fast!!

I took a battery voltage reading at the start of the test which was 11.9V (due to it being drained slightly yesterday) and in just an hour and half this dropped to 11.7V.

For some strange reason my computer is not shutting these circuits down!!!
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on April 09, 2014, 08:41:13 pm
Craig - you've now had TWO people telling you of problems caused by incorrectly specified lower capacity batteries - and those problems were CURED after fitting the correctly specified battery.  I really don't understand why you don't listen to and accept that factual advice?!?!?!?!   :indifferent:

If your engine blew up, and you had to get a replacement engine - would you fit, say, a 1.6 litre engine (presuming your car is a 2 litre GTI)????  No, so why are you appearing to accept that a lower spec battery is OK?

WHO sold you those incorrect batteries?  You need to take them back, and get a FULL refund - the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) states that a product must be "fit for purpose" - the batteries you were supplied are NOT fit for purpose.  :fighting:

Just stop fannying around, get the correct spec battery (I would personally recommend a Varta E44 - which is a 77Ah with a five year warranty) and your problems will be solved.!
For a start.... There is no need to have an attitude!
Sorry, don't mean to have an attitude - I'm having a sh*t day, and was a tad frustrated you appear to be ingoring the issue of an incorrectly speccd battery.  :ashamed:  :drinking:


Secondly... Exide batteries have a good reputation and I know many people who use them so that is just your opinion.
It isn't my opinion - I have a very good friend who is a professional Air Force electrician.  Part of his duties was to run the battery bay at a major front-line RAF station.  The RAF used to have a contract with Exide to supply batteries, which was terminated early due to repeated failures, and even explosions of Exide batteries.  Not the kinda thing you want in your fighter jet when flying over hostile territory, nor ideal in your Land Rover or Mastiff.  He showed me some pics of failed Exide batteries, and also showed me the damage caused when one exploded and set fire to the battery bay.

Still think they have a "good reputation"?  :popcornsoda:


I also did a battery drain test last night with a multi meter... left the car for 2 hours and tested... the car isn;t going to sleep. There were very big drains on a few of the fuses so this is actually the cause.
How are you doing the battery drain testing?  Are you locking the car, leaving it for two-or-so hours, then unlocking it again?  If so, the moment you unlock the car, you 'wake up' a whole plethora of modules, and this could give you false positives.

Are you aware of the bonnet catch trick?  You need to leave the bonnet open, but trick the locking mechanism, and therefore the alarm microswitch - in thinking the bonnet is actually closed.  Use a screwdriver in the lock to close the bonnet lock on the slam panel - if you have highline, use that to check you have done it correctly.  Then lock the car, leave it for more than two hours, and then do your drain tests WITHOUT unlocking the car.

It would also be a good idea to turn off the TIM settings on your head unit, disable the interior monitoring sensor (button on the inside of the drivers B pillar), turn your headlight switch to zero, and move the wiper stalk to off.  These should all minimise the basic 'wake up' devices, and hopefully help you narrow down other culprits.  :smiley:


The battery may be incorrect and will need to be changed but when you say change your battery and all the problems will be solved, that is actually incorrect.
OK - that was slightly tongue-in-cheek!  But the lower spec battery is certainly not helping your cause!  :smiley:

:grouphug:
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 09, 2014, 08:57:49 pm
Yep I'm pushing the bonnet lock down to make it think its shut and then locking the car. After the 2 hours I don't unlock it but just test the readings on the fuses. I did this around 4 times during that 2 hours. When Ed checked it about a month back they were all shutting off after about 20 minutes and you could actually hear the click when the computer switched off. So this time the car isn't waking up... its just not shutting down :/

The battery voltage went down from 11.9 to 11.7V in just and hour and a half.

Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2014, 09:31:38 pm
The scan shows module 62 fault switch - you need to check that switch and that doors wiring harness - then then module!

Has that door been opened and closed after Ed completed his testes for the drain?

The parasitic draw is approx 75ma after 20  to 25 minutes so clearly you have a serious but very detectable fault.

You've got a difficult fault because it's been intermittent but it's clearly there now but remember only do any testes with a fully charged battery because failure in that area causes a minefield of problems!
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 09, 2014, 09:43:31 pm
The scan shows module 62 fault switch - you need to check that switch and that doors wiring harness - then then module!

Has that door been opened and closed after Ed completed his testes for the drain?

The parasitic draw is approx 75ma after 20  to 25 minutes so clearly you have a serious but very detectable fault.

You've got a difficult fault because it's been intermittent but it's clearly there now but remember only do any testes with a fully charged battery because failure in that area causes a minefield of problems!

Hi John,

Which door are we talking about? All my doors have been opened and closed at some point since Ed did the tests.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: doylebros on April 09, 2014, 09:47:35 pm
Look at your scan at module 62 it tells you which door.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 09, 2014, 09:57:53 pm
Look at your scan at module 62 it tells you which door.

Ah yea sorry :)

Rear left door. It does say the fault is the window switch and come to think of it that switch is a bit stiff.

Looks like I'm going to have to consult the help of a forum member again if im to check the module and wiring etc as im not too sure if it something I could do myself?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on April 09, 2014, 11:20:44 pm
Yep I'm pushing the bonnet lock down to make it think its shut and then locking the car. After the 2 hours I don't unlock it but just test the readings on the fuses. I did this around 4 times during that 2 hours. When Ed checked it about a month back they were all shutting off after about 20 minutes and you could actually hear the click when the computer switched off. So this time the car isn't waking up... its just not shutting down :/

The battery voltage went down from 11.9 to 11.7V in just and hour and a half.
0.2 volts in half an hour doesn't sound too bad.  But your real hinderance is not the volts, it is the CCA - cold cranking amps.  Batteries are also rated by something called 'Reserve Capacity' (RC), and that is basically a measure of its resistance to degradation due to long term drain (as in hours, not the 10 second short burst high current drain which the CCA is).

Does sound like you've got an utter ball ache!  :sad1:  Is it possible to leave it longer than 2 hours - say 4 hours, before checking for current drain, and maybe even 24 hours?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: fransnz on April 09, 2014, 11:35:14 pm
Might sound stupid, but have you checked all the earthing points to make sure they are secure and not corroding ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: rich83 on April 10, 2014, 12:17:23 am
.2v in half an hour so you battery will be dead in about a day at that rate.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 10, 2014, 07:10:51 am
.2v in half an hour so you battery will be dead in about a day at that rate.

Yep. It was intermittent before and the car would be ok for a week. That's obviously not happening now and the fault has got worse so I am now disconnecting the negative terminal over night to save the battery.

Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 10, 2014, 08:30:32 am
Yep I'm pushing the bonnet lock down to make it think its shut and then locking the car. After the 2 hours I don't unlock it but just test the readings on the fuses. I did this around 4 times during that 2 hours. When Ed checked it about a month back they were all shutting off after about 20 minutes and you could actually hear the click when the computer switched off. So this time the car isn't waking up... its just not shutting down :/

The battery voltage went down from 11.9 to 11.7V in just and hour and a half.
0.2 volts in half an hour doesn't sound too bad.  But your real hinderance is not the volts, it is the CCA - cold cranking amps.  Batteries are also rated by something called 'Reserve Capacity' (RC), and that is basically a measure of its resistance to degradation due to long term drain (as in hours, not the 10 second short burst high current drain which the CCA is).

Does sound like you've got an utter ball ache!  :sad1:  Is it possible to leave it longer than 2 hours - say 4 hours, before checking for current drain, and maybe even 24 hours?

I doubt I could leave it 24 hours as the battery will probably be dead by then but I could certainly leave it for 4. I am probably going to do that this evening.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 10, 2014, 09:28:19 pm
Hey guys,

Thought I'd post tonights results...

Ok so I went out to the car thinking the fault may have gone away so I couldn't detect it but nope... its there alright!...And slightly worse than yesterday!

Fuse 3 - 91ma
Fuse 16 - 73ma
Fuse 17 - 33ma
Fuse 18 - 123ma
Fuse 19 - 792ma
Fuse 24 - 73ma

I did a battery voltage checks...
6.45pm = 12.2V
7.45pm = 12.0V
8.50pm = 11.8V

Absolute huge drain! So that's 3 nights in a row that the drain has been there. And btw I got these numbers using the conversion table that Ed sent to me.

Here is a photo of my fuses so that you can see which fuses im talking about.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fs534%2FCraigh_Bennett%2FIMG_3998_zps315b87c9.jpg&hash=793f0094534d2038ed85760c3aa021565512b315)
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 10, 2014, 10:15:34 pm
I have a vague idea of what some of the fuses I have listed are for, however I was wondering does anybody know what FUSE 18 is for????????

And if someone could help me out in telling me what Fuse 3, 16, 17, 19 and 24 are that would be absolutely brilliant! :)

Cheers

Craigh  :happy2:
Title: Re:
Post by: SI-R32 on April 10, 2014, 10:26:03 pm
19 is stereo, do you not have a user book with the car with a fuse list
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: doylebros on April 10, 2014, 10:30:00 pm
Just confirm your year build - eng AXX or BWA  and gear box code or if it's manual or Auto. As there's a few different types!

F3:- I think is convenience system, but need above confirmed prove it!
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: doylebros on April 10, 2014, 10:32:45 pm
I think the common item is that relay marked 167 as they all tie back to terminal 30A  may be Ed or SI will confirm if there reading this unless anyone else knows?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Eddie-NL on April 10, 2014, 10:34:19 pm
they are all on Terminal 30
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: doylebros on April 10, 2014, 10:37:12 pm
Is that relay duplicated anywhere on the car Ed - just wondering if that's sticking?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 10, 2014, 10:46:45 pm
Just confirm your year build - eng AXX or BWA  and gear box code or if it's manual or Auto. As there's a few different types!

F3:- I think is convenience system, but need above confirmed prove it!

My engine is the AXX and it's a manual. Not too sure of the gear box code.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: doylebros on April 10, 2014, 10:48:00 pm
Just confirm your year build - eng AXX or BWA  and gear box code or if it's manual or Auto. As there's a few different types!

F3:- I think is convenience system, but need above confirmed prove it!

My engine is the AXX and it's a manual. Not too sure of the gear box code.

Still need the year though!
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 10, 2014, 10:51:12 pm
Mines a 2005 plate.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on April 10, 2014, 10:55:24 pm
Mines a 2005 plate.

What model year - you find that from the 10th digit of your VIN.

And the gearbox code will be found on tthe data sticker - one of which is inside the front cover of your service book, the other is to the left of the spare wheel underneath the boot carpet.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Eddie-NL on April 10, 2014, 10:57:32 pm
code is AXX and is a manual gearbox
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 10, 2014, 11:08:44 pm
Mines a 2005 plate.

What model year - you find that from the 10th digit of your VIN.

And the gearbox code will be found on tthe data sticker - one of which is inside the front cover of your service book, the other is to the left of the spare wheel underneath the boot carpet.

The 10th digit from the vin number is a 6 so I'm assuming that's 2006.

On the sticker inside service book it says...
147kw
6F
AXX
GVT
LY3D
RZ

I hope that makes sense to you guys! Lol
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: doylebros on April 10, 2014, 11:12:40 pm
code is AXX and is a manual gearbox

I'm checking and that fuse 18 comes up as - special vehicle unit - anyone know what that's used for?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: ryanpp on April 11, 2014, 09:23:38 am
Hi there,

Just got my car back from VW and well, it's not great news.

Basically they charged me £227 and said to me, "we couldn't find the battery drain, but when we put a donor battery on the drain disappeared and we could not recreate it".

So they gave me a car back with a flat battery that is still discharging, claiming that the battery is "Self-discharging", but what really gets me is that they could not recode my steering rack, as they "could not find the battery issue".

Sounds like they just don't know what is wrong with it, so I'll be speaking to a manager for a refund. Disappointing.

I will be working on the car today, and will be doing continuity tests on all circuits, to check for cable degradation, I will be doing current tests on all fuses, and I will also be checking the starter motor and alternator relays , as these are unfused.

Will keep you updated.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: ryanpp on April 11, 2014, 09:27:48 am
Quick update, with a resistance test across the terminals immediately after disconnecting, there is a resistance that starts at 0.3kOhm and falls down to 0.01kOhm (much like an exponential). Does anyone know if this transient is usual when disconnecting the battery and measuring resistance? I would be inclined to believe that the resistance across the the terminals should be infinite when disconnected, and at the very least a lot higher than 0.3kOhm on initial disconnect.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: ryanpp on April 11, 2014, 09:55:15 am
Reading initial current draw of 2.4 amps, dropping down to 1.6A once settled - Still too high and would discharge battery overnight.
Will keep updates posted
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 11, 2014, 10:06:08 am
Reading initial current draw of 2.4 amps, dropping down to 1.6A once settled - Still too high and would discharge battery overnight.
Will keep updates posted

Sorry to hear that mate that's terrible!! I'm glad I have resisted on taking it to vw then!

Mine luckily is doing the drain every night now so it should be a lot easier to find fault now.
Just waiting to hear back from someone what fuse 18 (special vehicle unit) is used for?

Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: SI-R32 on April 11, 2014, 11:37:40 am
fuse 18 for 2005 car, fuse box high or low is indeed for special vehicle thing (possibly for emergency services? or for an amplifier

do you have the OEM amp under either of your front seats for the speakers
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :(
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 11, 2014, 12:14:03 pm
fuse 18 for 2005 car, fuse box high or low is indeed for special vehicle thing (possibly for emergency services? or for an amplifier

do you have the OEM amp under either of your front seats for the speakers

Im not too sure i've never looked but will do when i get home for sure!
I take it will be some kind of box with wires coming out of it??

Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 11, 2014, 11:07:45 pm
Right,

I think I am homing in on the culprit for my battery drain!

I have a suspicion that it could be the factory fitted onboard anti theft siren... I was wondering has anyone had any problems with Battery Drain and a Factory Fitted Onboard Anti Theft Siren??????

Thanks
Craigh
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: MJ on April 11, 2014, 11:10:27 pm
Right,

I think I am homing in on the culprit for my battery drain!

I have a suspicion that it could be the factory fitted onboard anti theft siren... I was wondering has anyone had any problems with Battery Drain and a Factory Fitted Onboard Anti Theft Siren??????

Thanks
Craigh

You mean the same one I; A. Suggested about 5 pages back B. Also had problems with and C. Other members have also commented on? Yes.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: vRSAlex on April 11, 2014, 11:18:09 pm
Right,

I think I am homing in on the culprit for my battery drain!

I have a suspicion that it could be the factory fitted onboard anti theft siren... I was wondering has anyone had any problems with Battery Drain and a Factory Fitted Onboard Anti Theft Siren??????

Thanks
Craigh

Does the siren work? Can cause issues when they go faulty. Mine is f*cked, and I get a drain on the tiny battery I use.  Had a replacement siren to fit for well over 8 months, just an arse to fit.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: xjay1337 on April 11, 2014, 11:21:56 pm
A friend at work has a battery drain on his b6 passat, it's his alarm siren.
wing off job to replace.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 11, 2014, 11:24:18 pm
Right,

I think I am homing in on the culprit for my battery drain!

I have a suspicion that it could be the factory fitted onboard anti theft siren... I was wondering has anyone had any problems with Battery Drain and a Factory Fitted Onboard Anti Theft Siren??????

Thanks
Craigh

You mean the same one I; A. Suggested about 5 pages back B. Also had problems with and C. Other members have also commented on? Yes.

Yea sorry mate. I forgot you mentioned that. I am getting lost with all the replies and I am trying to make sense of it all when I have no knowledge about this kinda stuff.

So the alarm horn you mentioned, is that the same as the factory fitted onboard siren?
Sometimes when I turn the engine off and take the key out... I hear a high pitch noise which lasts a few seconds. It's not really loud like I would expect an alarm to be but I can definitely hear it. I also heard it earlier too when pulling out a few fuses and then putting them back in.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: MJ on April 11, 2014, 11:27:00 pm
Right,

I think I am homing in on the culprit for my battery drain!

I have a suspicion that it could be the factory fitted onboard anti theft siren... I was wondering has anyone had any problems with Battery Drain and a Factory Fitted Onboard Anti Theft Siren??????

Thanks
Craigh


Does the siren work? Can cause issues when they go faulty. Mine is f*cked, and I get a drain on the tiny battery I use.  Had a replacement siren to fit for well over 8 months, just an arse to fit.

8 t25 torx screws to remove

1 x drill bit
1 x cordless drill
1 x dose of hand-fistedness

And you're all good to go!

Surprised you've still got your arch liners on Alex, saving weight and all. They can hoard a lot of crap in them!
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 11, 2014, 11:27:31 pm
Right,

I think I am homing in on the culprit for my battery drain!

I have a suspicion that it could be the factory fitted onboard anti theft siren... I was wondering has anyone had any problems with Battery Drain and a Factory Fitted Onboard Anti Theft Siren??????

Thanks
Craigh

Does the siren work? Can cause issues when they go faulty. Mine is f*cked, and I get a drain on the tiny battery I use.  Had a replacement siren to fit for well over 8 months, just an arse to fit.

I'm not too sure to be honest mate. If I try to set the alarm off on purpose the indicators flash but there is no sound what so ever. Never has been.
But I do know that I hear a faint high pitch sound every now and again sometimes when I stop driving and turn the engine off. Not sure if that is normal or not.

I can also hear a very faint clicking coming from the engine fuse box from the big black fuse in there that says 100 on it. It sounds like a watch ticking but very fast. It does however stop after a while. Again not too sure if this is normal or not.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: MJ on April 11, 2014, 11:35:15 pm
B6 passats its under the scuttle trim at the back, near the battery.

It lives under the plastic arch liner in the drivers side. It's a stand alone alarm siren for the anti theft system and has a built in battery that draws charge from the main battery. If it's not working then you'll get no audible feedback when you trigger the alarm.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 11, 2014, 11:41:44 pm
B6 passats its under the scuttle trim at the back, near the battery.

It lives under the plastic arch liner in the drivers side. It's a stand alone alarm siren for the anti theft system and has a built in battery that draws charge from the main battery. If it's not working then you'll get no audible feedback when you trigger the alarm.

So do these cars have a main alarm siren and an onboard siren? Or is it just the one.

I know they have one of these... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GOLF-MK5-GTI-TDI-TOURAN-JETTA-ALARM-MODULE-1K0-951-605-C-AUDI-A3-8P-/291118033729?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43c7fcab41
but I didn't know if that was classed as an onboard alarm.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: MJ on April 11, 2014, 11:42:32 pm
Just the one
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 11, 2014, 11:48:27 pm
And is the clicking from the black 100 fuse in the engine bay fuse box normal? its ticking quite fast but you can defo hear it if you put your ear to it.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: MJ on April 11, 2014, 11:52:48 pm
Erratic Ticking or clicking from a relay is not usually normal but consistent or regular ticking is.

The siren would be controlled or regulated by the CCM o CEM. Usually no relay involved.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 12, 2014, 12:01:01 am
Erratic Ticking or clicking from a relay is not usually normal but consistent or regular ticking is.

The siren would be controlled or regulated by the CCM o CEM. Usually no relay involved.

Ah well its definitely not erratic but it is regular ticking.

So I take it if this siren is faulty, it is not letting the computer go to sleep and that's why the 6 fuses are drawing power?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: MJ on April 12, 2014, 12:06:20 am
It's not that it doesn't let the Can bus sleep it just attempts to draw current to charge itself. The siren is a control unit in its own right and communicates via Lin bus single wire. If the master unit cannot see it then it continually sends a signal looking for it and also let's it draw current from the battery to charge itself, until the voltage stored reaches a set level. With a faulty cell this cannot be achieved, hence the drain - continuous draw.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 12, 2014, 12:18:09 am
It's not that it doesn't let the Can bus sleep it just attempts to draw current to charge itself. The siren is a control unit in its own right and communicates via Lin bus single wire. If the master unit cannot see it then it continually sends a signal looking for it and also let's it draw current from the battery to charge itself, until the voltage stored reaches a set level. With a faulty cell this cannot be achieved, hence the drain - continuous draw.

Ok so this is all kinda starting to make sense to me now...

I'm going to sound a bit stupid again though and im just trying to make sense of it all... how come my stereo fuse is active and using a huge amount of power? is it because of the master control unit is constantly sending that signal?
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: MJ on April 12, 2014, 12:36:37 am
That may be a separate issue entirely or it might be connected because one system is over ruling the other. The anti theft system has a high priority when it comes to power usage.
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 13, 2014, 06:09:22 pm
Having the new alarm fitted on Wednesday :)

Will be great if this sorts the issue. Everything is pointing to the siren but I'm tying not to get my hopes up.

Just did another check on the fuses and it's still draining. Same values as before so I hope they are still there when I take it to Ed on Wednesday!!

Title: Re:
Post by: SI-R32 on April 13, 2014, 06:13:59 pm
Did you see if you have an amplifier under the seat for fuse 18?
Title: Re:
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 13, 2014, 06:17:03 pm
Did you see if you have an amplifier under the seat for fuse 18?

Yep. There was an amp there. Never noticed it before!
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 13, 2014, 06:18:57 pm
Thanks for letting me know what that fuse was for Si :happy2:
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Eddie-NL on April 16, 2014, 05:31:29 pm
Hopefully sorted Now

New Alarm Horn fitted - still battery drain - at least the car is protected now
New CECM fitted - No battery drain when checked

New Gateway fitted as there was a reoccurring fault, Comfort CAN in single wire mode. Gateway at fault
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: SI-R32 on April 16, 2014, 08:24:12 pm
really glad this sounds like its finally over, hopefully Ed has sorted things a final time for you and you can finally enjoy your golf. fingers crossed mate
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Craigh1983 on April 16, 2014, 09:16:53 pm
really glad this sounds like its finally over, hopefully Ed has sorted things a final time for you and you can finally enjoy your golf. fingers crossed mate

Honestly mate me too! This car has stressed me out way too much! The problem
Has been going on for over a month now with all the electronics failing first of all.

Ed was an absolute star today. Spent all day on my car and had the dash out soldering wires n all sorts. Sorted it in the end so massive thanks to you mate for that!! :happy2:

Also John (Doylebros) on the forum has been a massive help. Helping me out over the phone and sending me all the parts... Twice! Also everyone else on the forum thank you for your help! John_A and Matto for doing scans for me! What a great bunch of people!

Ed kindly pointed out that I have the start of some rust on the wheel arches lol I look forward to now trying to get that sorted hahaha
Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: brummo on September 15, 2022, 07:53:27 pm
Hopefully sorted Now

New Alarm Horn fitted - still battery drain - at least the car is protected now
New CECM fitted - No battery drain when checked

New Gateway fitted as there was a reoccurring fault, Comfort CAN in single wire mode. Gateway at fault

Hi all, i appreciate that this topic is old but i'm trying to diagnose battery drain.  I've done loads of reading up and just wondered if there is a consensus on what is the key issue, i.e. is it the alarm horn siren (which doesn't work on mine, or the door lock mechanism, again not working on mine on the passenger side.  Tried a replacement CCM no joy, next step is possibly the CECM.  Does coding the alarm out help?

Currently drawing 98ma

Here are the relevant parts of my scan

Address 46: Central Conv. Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MIN.clb
Part No: 1K0 959 433 T
Component: 0W KSG 0560
Coding: 81E802087F2D8505485BC61000
Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
VCID: 4189F0031889C38E4D-8014
Subsystem 1 - Component: Sounder No Answer
Subsystem 2 - Component: NGS No Answer
Subsystem 3 - Component: IRUE No Answer
3 Faults Found:
01135 - Interior Monitoring Sensors
004 - No Signal/Communication
00323 - Vehicle Inclination Sensor (G384)
004 - No Signal/Communication
01134 - Alarm Horn (H12)
004 - No Signal/Communication
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 702 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0116
Coding: 0000052
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 3169A0C3A829530EBD-8064
2 Faults Found:
01553 - Motor for Central Locking; Passenger Door (V57); Lock
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221)
008 - Implausible Signal

Title: Re: Battery drain still happening... Completely stumped :( **UPDATE**
Post by: Grevling89 on November 05, 2022, 08:28:13 pm
Hi all, i appreciate that this topic is old but i'm trying to diagnose battery drain.  I've done loads of reading up and just wondered if there is a consensus on what is the key issue, i.e. is it the alarm horn siren (which doesn't work on mine, or the door lock mechanism, again not working on mine on the passenger side.  Tried a replacement CCM no joy, next step is possibly the CECM.  Does coding the alarm out help?

Currently drawing 98ma

Here are the relevant parts of my scan

Address 46: Central Conv. Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MIN.clb
Part No: 1K0 959 433 T
Component: 0W KSG 0560
Coding: 81E802087F2D8505485BC61000
Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
VCID: 4189F0031889C38E4D-8014
Subsystem 1 - Component: Sounder No Answer
Subsystem 2 - Component: NGS No Answer
Subsystem 3 - Component: IRUE No Answer
3 Faults Found:
01135 - Interior Monitoring Sensors
004 - No Signal/Communication
00323 - Vehicle Inclination Sensor (G384)
004 - No Signal/Communication
01134 - Alarm Horn (H12)
004 - No Signal/Communication
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 702 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0116
Coding: 0000052
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 3169A0C3A829530EBD-8064
2 Faults Found:
01553 - Motor for Central Locking; Passenger Door (V57); Lock
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221)
008 - Implausible Signal



Did you try the reverse engineering method of singling out what circuit that's causing the drain?

This video helped me loads when troubleshooting a parasitic battery drain:
. Gentle warning about an immensely American aesthetic and way of speaking, but the info is good.