Author Topic: Stage 2+ Map  (Read 533 times)

Offline E8RNX

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Stage 2+ Map
« on: November 04, 2019, 11:00:10 PM »
Hey guys so I got my car mapped and got disappointing figures! I kept my car stock ever since I bought it a long time ago and decided to max out the KO3 to stage 2+.

I got 266BHP and 294lb of torque

So in terms of mods my map was equivalent to R-Tech Stage 2+. I have full decatted Miltek exhaust system, VIS HPFP, Induction kit, Audi S3 Alloy Intercooler.

I sadly chose not to get mapped from R-Tech due to distance and cost (regret this now lol). Either way the company I used have done many TFSI engines and map newer cars with a load of facebook dyno figures and graphs daily. Ive been following their page closely and it seems like every TFSI car that comes to them seems to get 266 or bang around that figure which makes me realise how the map isn't a custom dyno map and probably rather just one they slap onto every vehicle.

Saying this however, with my mods my car dyno'd 200BHP pre-mapping and the remapper guy said usually i would expect about 210+ with your mods ... Is this true? He said due to my car getting only 200 with my mods that's why he couldn't get it higher than 266.

I know people who are only stage 2 and have better power than mine so now I'm contemplating going to rtech to see whether we can get better and also of course their full health check and full clean. My map itself isn't (too bad) - the power delivery seems like it always wants to pull and this makes the wheelspin crazy, especially in wet conditions but I guess KO3 is known for its instant power delivery.

Would love to know your guys thoughts, especially people who have similar mods.

Cheers
—MK5 Golf GTI DSG—

Offline colesey

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2019, 06:21:13 AM »
That sounds poor, more like stage 1 torque and well down on the potential of the hardware. Perhaps have them check actual boost and fuel pressure before you speak with Rtec.

Offline Pudding

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 04:07:30 PM »
I wouldn't overthink it.  However you cut it, they are good gains.  I suspect the dyno you used is more truthful, perhaps a shade conservative.  The tuner can easily put a bigger smile on your face with some creative coast down calculations, but that's just dishonest.

How long had the mods been on the car before it was dynoed (standard map)?  The ECU can take ages to adapt to hardware changes.  A good way to predict improvements is to data log the peak MAF value before and after the mods.

Maybe you could do a compression and leak down test to make sure the cylinder sealing is healthy.  Might not be a bad idea to data log actual and requested boost pressures to see how quickly the target pressures are met.  Worn out, lazy turbos can take a while to hit them compared to a new or low mileage one.

So before questioning the map, let's get some data logging and physical checks done  :happy2:

If it makes you feel any better, my ED30 made 230hp standard and with Revo stage 1 it only showed 290hp on the dyno.  Am I dissapointed?  Absolutely not.  I care more about consistency than I do pub numbers.  When I had stage 2+ it wasn't great, and the ECU just adapted it down anyway.  The bigger numbers you can sometimes drive away with on the day, seldom stay that high.  Some tuners are aware of this and just don't push things into that territory.

Black Edition 30 with manually selected cogs, a beefier clutch, some extra boost and them Whiteline thingies, otherwise standard.

Offline colesey

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 06:28:05 PM »
Rtech stage 1 car with precat delete and panel filter. Very low mileage.

https://ibb.co/7S5FcjZ


Offline Pudding

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 05:18:29 PM »
Lol, isn't it about time you got an R-Tech map yourself?
Black Edition 30 with manually selected cogs, a beefier clutch, some extra boost and them Whiteline thingies, otherwise standard.

Offline Namsgti

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2019, 09:48:57 PM »
Rtech not all that to be honest

Offline joe2308

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2019, 12:57:11 AM »
Why do you say that Nams? curious as i'm APR 2+ and looking to go R-tech when i get my new turbo.

Offline Pudding

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2019, 11:47:26 AM »
Unless he's had a bad experience there, I think what Nams is getting at is there are other tuners available who are equally competent, if not more so.

If you are already APR 2+ I wouldn't bother with a different map personally, unless it's a hybrid / big turbo, but I think APR offer a TTE420 map?

If you're going big turbo (Garrett GTX or Borg Weiner EFR), I'd go to Stealth Racing for the mapping personally.  They are better with non-standard stuff and have been mapping VAG turbo engines for nearly 3 decades.
Black Edition 30 with manually selected cogs, a beefier clutch, some extra boost and them Whiteline thingies, otherwise standard.

Offline rich83

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2019, 12:52:51 PM »
Rtech not all that to be honest

Who do you recommend?

Offline colesey

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2019, 03:59:33 PM »
Lol, isn't it about time you got an R-Tech map yourself?

Yeah, it’s long overdue. Is just the thought of taking a whole day out to go there which is a bit tricky with business and family commitments. Maybe after Xmas.

Offline joe2308

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 04:37:40 PM »
APR do offer stage 3 maps which are just different turbos etc but they want another 600 quid for the software - I've heard and seen really great things about the guys at R-Tech.

Offline colesey

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2019, 04:56:13 PM »
I know that I talk a bit about RTec - that’s what Pudding was gently pulling my leg about earlier. It’s not to suggest that there aren’t other competent tuners out there but more the fact that they pump out fb posts daily with dyno charts on the tfsi cars that they have worked on so there is a huge amount of case studies in the public domain.

I guess there must inevitably be some customers for whom things didn’t work out well just like any other business, however most customers appear very happy.

Offline kpowell911

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2019, 06:32:59 PM »
New to tuning the GTI, i thought going above a stage 1 map with a K03 is pretty pointless?

What sorta power can you take the K03 too?

Offline colesey

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2019, 07:05:36 PM »
K03 can go to 300bhp / @350lbft but yes you do have a point. This small turbo is best for B road use where lower rev punch counts more than top end. For drag racing, K04 has more top end power but, hey, the car is fwd and our roads are cold & wet so traction is a concern. Moral of the story, spend your money / time on the chassis / brakes rather than chasing pub talk bhp.

Offline Pudding

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Re: Stage 2+ Map
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 10:59:39 AM »
APR do offer stage 3 maps which are just different turbos etc but they want another 600 quid for the software - I've heard and seen really great things about the guys at R-Tech.

Blimey! I can see your predicament. 

With live dyno tuners like R-Tech and Stealth Racing, once you've paid for an initial map, if you go back for further tuning, it's pretty much just the hourly rate you pay for.  But it depends what tuning headaches the new hardware can create, which will inevitably bump up the cost.

Stealth are pretty near to R-Tech and they both have a shed load of TFSI tuning experience, so it's your choice.  I'm sure you'll come away happy from either of them.  As mentioned previously, for aftermarket turbo mapping, my choice would be Stealth.  Slapping big turbos onto things and getting them to behave nicely on the road is their specialty  :happy2:
Black Edition 30 with manually selected cogs, a beefier clutch, some extra boost and them Whiteline thingies, otherwise standard.