Author Topic: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI  (Read 590 times)

Offline momo.mk5GTI

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Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« on: February 18, 2020, 03:25:33 PM »
Hello, after quite a bit of discussion on the topic of low pressure, I found this forum. After much reading and topics left in half I couldn't find what I was looking for. I am new to your forum, and I am also the new owner of the Golf 5 GTI 2006 with the BWA motor code. (I also want to point out that I'm not from England, but I don't think that interferes.) Like most of you, I also ran into a low pressure problem that I couldn't find out exactly.
With your opinion and what you've been through over the years, I hope my problem is found.

Let me start from the beginning. My New Year's gift was brilliantly bright as a fireworks 'check engine' lamp, after diagnosis through a vag-com it turned out to be the P0441 error which was typical and a distinctly audible sound from the purge valve was heard. Which, after replacing the purge valve, the error reappeared. One day again in this forum, I saw the evap purge canister. Someone had mentioned getting out and shaking and also cleaning the plastic pipe that connects to the tank hose. I did that and magic. The error did not occur again (I think it may reappear after a while.) 
One day, when I got home, I decided to lightly gas and boil, but the car started to rev at about 3500 to 5000, which made me gas more and more into each gear to see what was going on, at 1st and 2nd gears no problem but from third to above this tugging in time became when I pressed the throttle all the way as if I had removed my legs from the throttle the car does not want to take in the throttle, also when I push the throttle at low revs it is not the one as it was before. After a while the check engine light was illuminated in the diagnostics I saw P0087 Fuel rail system pressure too low. Reading Walking on some 2 3 garages I found that I must to change the piston of the high pressure pump (cam folower). But when I opened it, and with what I met at first, it terrified me, the folower was broken and the pump touched the camshaft but for my chance the camshaft is good. After changing the piston the car continued to be the same followed by a new pump, a new fuel filter, new spark plugs, but it has no effect the car just dies whichever one it wants to go on 4 as long as it goes. And I also want to point out that after the pump change, the response time to the 3rd has improved. But sometimes even at 2nd speed he doesn't want to make some adrenalin. I don't know what the problem may be, I just don't want to waste money on a part that already works. I'll try to post some pictures. I also want to point out that for the 2nd time I get the following error for the circuit I don't know if it matters but let me share it with you 'P000A Camshaft positioner slow response.' Thanks in advance for all your help.



And there is some others picture of the folower and pump.











And i also notice this pipe that have a litle bit something like rust.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 04:40:51 PM by momo.mk5GTI »

Offline muff1991

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2020, 09:33:36 AM »
P000A Camshaft positioner slow response

is a code i'll be helping my mate look into on his edition 30. at first thoughts and from what I've read.. i think it will have something to do with the cam chain, tensioner and/or adjuster. also read it could be the seals buggered going into the adjuster from the chain covers plunger bit. sludgy oily type stuff in and around the area too, maybe the tensioners oil passage is sludgy and not tensioning properly!. A replacement of all the parts and a good clean sounds like it will be the most likely outcome anyway. When he first got the car, i see his cam chain on VCDS bouncing between 28kw and 27.5kw so i think he chain or tensioner might be on its way out, or the adjuster isnt doing its job correctly.. who knows!

you might have been lucky to put a new cam follower in, but dont rule out the pump plunger or camshaft fully as they could be more worn that what meets the eye. Sounds like you definitely have a fuel pressure problem so look into anything fuel related.. have you replaced the Fuel Filter?

Offline Octoparrot

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2020, 02:47:13 PM »
Looks like you need:
    1. New HPFP
    2. New HPFP follower
    3. New intake cam

Offline momo.mk5GTI

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2020, 07:52:10 PM »
P000A Camshaft positioner slow response

is a code i'll be helping my mate look into on his edition 30. at first thoughts and from what I've read.. i think it will have something to do with the cam chain, tensioner and/or adjuster. also read it could be the seals buggered going into the adjuster from the chain covers plunger bit. sludgy oily type stuff in and around the area too, maybe the tensioners oil passage is sludgy and not tensioning properly!. A replacement of all the parts and a good clean sounds like it will be the most likely outcome anyway. When he first got the car, i see his cam chain on VCDS bouncing between 28kw and 27.5kw so i think he chain or tensioner might be on its way out, or the adjuster isnt doing its job correctly.. who knows!

you might have been lucky to put a new cam follower in, but dont rule out the pump plunger or camshaft fully as they could be more worn that what meets the eye. Sounds like you definitely have a fuel pressure problem so look into anything fuel related.. have you replaced the Fuel Filter?


Thanks foy your answers, the next week if anything be good with wheather i will change my timing belt, if anyone knows how can i open the chain cap to see if everything is good or bad, because from chain cover i dont hear any noise. If there have a tutorial how to change the chain or simply open the cap?

For another fault, yes i change the fuel filter 2 or mybe today 3 weeks ago. Today i was at the garage just to speak witth my cousin and he said that the intank pump does not make enought pression and thats why the car sometimes not pull like 200hp. Sometimes car start a litle bit slow then what must be, also sometimes car puls like have nothing like issues or something. And what must be the intank fuel pump bars?  Have you any sujestions for mark? Ive been at vw for the oem number 1K0 919 051 DB this is the number what they gives me for intank fuel pump.

Offline momo.mk5GTI

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2020, 08:00:17 PM »
Looks like you need:
    1. New HPFP
    2. New HPFP follower
    3. New intake cam
   

New folower and HPFP was installed already. For intake cam im not sure that i must to change because its not very bad what were see. But i will make photos when i open cap for chain. Thank you.

Offline Pudding

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2020, 09:33:35 PM »
P000A Camshaft positioner slow response

is a code i'll be helping my mate look into on his edition 30. at first thoughts and from what I've read.. i think it will have something to do with the cam chain, tensioner and/or adjuster. also read it could be the seals buggered going into the adjuster from the chain covers plunger bit. sludgy oily type stuff in and around the area too, maybe the tensioners oil passage is sludgy and not tensioning properly!. A replacement of all the parts and a good clean sounds like it will be the most likely outcome anyway. When he first got the car, i see his cam chain on VCDS bouncing between 28kw and 27.5kw so i think he chain or tensioner might be on its way out, or the adjuster isnt doing its job correctly.. who knows!

you might have been lucky to put a new cam follower in, but dont rule out the pump plunger or camshaft fully as they could be more worn that what meets the eye. Sounds like you definitely have a fuel pressure problem so look into anything fuel related.. have you replaced the Fuel Filter?

Have a look at the pics in the link below. 

2006 is probably on the early metal oil control rings > plastic cross over year.  That would definitely cause a slow response because the oil pressure would bleed off instead of moving the VVT adjuster as commanded.  My 2007 ED30 had plastic rings when I stripped it down to replace the chain.  I suspect 2005-2006 GTIs and ED30s had metal rings.  Not a cheap fix if that's the problem  :surprised:

Best thing to do before spending that kind of money is verify the fault.  Log the VVT actual and requested angles and see how closely the numbers match.  Is it measuring blocks 91 and 92? I can't remember.  I've watched mine adjusting on the laptop and it's very fast to respond.  28ish KW at idle and light throttle but as soon as you give it load, it goes to zero or +1-3KW very quickly.  If the actual lags way behind requested, I reckon it's worn out VVT parts as shown.  A worn chain or solenoid would show up as different faults.

Stuck record time:  Oil changes, oil changes, oil changes.  Every 3-5K with the best oil you can afford!

https://www.akstuning.co.uk/genuine-oem-parts/575-genuine-vvt-repair-kit.html





2007 ED30 | Ohlins Coilovers | Revo Map | Plus some other stuff | Is all a GTI needs :-)

Offline momo.mk5GTI

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2020, 11:58:20 PM »
Thanks, i will look make some photos and write again. This things with chain make me fear... :confused:

Offline muff1991

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2020, 07:03:09 AM »
P000A Camshaft positioner slow response

is a code i'll be helping my mate look into on his edition 30. at first thoughts and from what I've read.. i think it will have something to do with the cam chain, tensioner and/or adjuster. also read it could be the seals buggered going into the adjuster from the chain covers plunger bit. sludgy oily type stuff in and around the area too, maybe the tensioners oil passage is sludgy and not tensioning properly!. A replacement of all the parts and a good clean sounds like it will be the most likely outcome anyway. When he first got the car, i see his cam chain on VCDS bouncing between 28kw and 27.5kw so i think he chain or tensioner might be on its way out, or the adjuster isnt doing its job correctly.. who knows!

you might have been lucky to put a new cam follower in, but dont rule out the pump plunger or camshaft fully as they could be more worn that what meets the eye. Sounds like you definitely have a fuel pressure problem so look into anything fuel related.. have you replaced the Fuel Filter?

Have a look at the pics in the link below. 

2006 is probably on the early metal oil control rings > plastic cross over year.  That would definitely cause a slow response because the oil pressure would bleed off instead of moving the VVT adjuster as commanded.  My 2007 ED30 had plastic rings when I stripped it down to replace the chain.  I suspect 2005-2006 GTIs and ED30s had metal rings.  Not a cheap fix if that's the problem  :surprised:

Best thing to do before spending that kind of money is verify the fault.  Log the VVT actual and requested angles and see how closely the numbers match.  Is it measuring blocks 91 and 92? I can't remember.  I've watched mine adjusting on the laptop and it's very fast to respond.  28ish KW at idle and light throttle but as soon as you give it load, it goes to zero or +1-3KW very quickly.  If the actual lags way behind requested, I reckon it's worn out VVT parts as shown.  A worn chain or solenoid would show up as different faults.

Stuck record time:  Oil changes, oil changes, oil changes.  Every 3-5K with the best oil you can afford!

https://www.akstuning.co.uk/genuine-oem-parts/575-genuine-vvt-repair-kit.html
Hey Pudding,
Thanks for your info and advice as usual. I did check blocks 91 and 93 I think it was yesterday, after being left on idle for a while the chain was bouncing 26.5-27kw. Give it a little Rev and it was back up to 27.5-28kw the cam adjustment percentage was around or just over 6% which I guess is chain stretch. He’s going to do it all anyway, but as long as the VVT isn’t worn (like in the AKS photo below) I’ve told him the VVT should be fine and we’ll just do the seals, chain and tensioner etc.
Thanks again pud.
And for OP:
Apologies for half a thread hijack. But the chances are your fault P000A will be the same issue as my mates.
The cover simply unbolts and removes. There is a guide on this forum in the “how to” section.
Funny you should mention longer starting problems as he too has sometimes been getting that. Probably all linked.


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Offline momo.mk5GTI

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2020, 02:16:26 PM »
Hello a litle update to with photos.

Here is at idlle work.



A litle bit gas.








Here is the fuel pressure system too.



With a litle bit gas.



And i see that the Electric Fuel Pump 3/4 was not indicate something. Is this a normal?. 

Offline momo.mk5GTI

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2020, 04:55:21 PM »
Up...

Offline momo.mk5GTI

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2020, 07:08:24 AM »
Hello a litle update too the topic. This morning when i start the car you know that hold 1200 1300rpm but sometimes like this morning after the start car not hold the rpm in high. Its just started normaly and then the rpm is down to normal.

Offline f00glee

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2020, 11:13:51 AM »
Hello a litle update too the topic. This morning when i start the car you know that hold 1200 1300rpm but sometimes like this morning after the start car not hold the rpm in high. Its just started normaly and then the rpm is down to normal.

I think this is normal. Mine does this when the outside temperature is particularly low (a few°C or less). Seem to remember being told the car decides which best start up mode (high idle or straight to normal) is best based on environmental conditions at the time orf starting.
MkV GTI, Tornado Red, 3-door, 06, R-tech Stage "1+"

Offline muff1991

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2020, 11:17:37 AM »
Hello a litle update too the topic. This morning when i start the car you know that hold 1200 1300rpm but sometimes like this morning after the start car not hold the rpm in high. Its just started normaly and then the rpm is down to normal.

I think this is normal. Mine does this when the outside temperature is particularly low (a few°C or less). Seem to remember being told the car decides which best start up mode (high idle or straight to normal) is best based on environmental conditions at the time orf starting.

both of my GTi's done this, i do believe this is meant to happen. (it seems to pick and choose wrong sometimes though)

Offline momo.mk5GTI

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2020, 11:54:19 AM »
Hello a litle update too the topic. This morning when i start the car you know that hold 1200 1300rpm but sometimes like this morning after the start car not hold the rpm in high. Its just started normaly and then the rpm is down to normal.

I think this is normal. Mine does this when the outside temperature is particularly low (a few°C or less). Seem to remember being told the car decides which best start up mode (high idle or straight to normal) is best based on environmental conditions at the time orf starting.
 

Yes the outsite temp was 1⁰C  or something like this. So i do not worry about this? If its normal. Thanks you.  :happy2:

Offline rich83

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Re: Issues with High pressure too low mk5 GTI
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2020, 01:42:46 PM »
So you have not replaced the intake cam yet?

If you don't do that then you will just eat through cam followers....