Author Topic: LPFP drop-in pump replacement...decision time. DW65v vs HFP by Quantum.  (Read 387 times)

Offline ROH ECHT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 103
  • -Receive: 121
  • Posts: 1811
  • K04 PLAY....ZOOM DIS!
Interesting to me, because today I have found test results for the DW65v and for another drop-in pump, HFP-A35HV sold by Quantum. Both were tested by RC Engineering. Results show the DW65v takes more amps to produce less volume both initially at 35 psi within a system and when pressures increase to 120 psi within the system. Remembering our low side only pressurizes to about 95 psi/6.6 bar. Right now I am leaning heavily toward the Quantum. The lessor performing DW65v is $250 and has a three year warranty and the Quantum is $80 and has a lifetime warranty.

K04 PLAY...K04 turbo/S3 INJ. & FMIC/FORGE FMTC, TB hose, & WG actuator/GIAC's K04 & DSG TUNES/AWE DV/NEUSPEED P-FLO,TURBO OUTLET & TB pipe/AUTOTECH hpfp/Quantum 265L per hr LPFP/TORQBYTE PM3/BSH Eng.&Trans Mounts/H&R ARB's/W.A.L.K./ECS stage-3 BBK/BILSTEIN B8's/H&R SS springs...ZOOM'DIS My Dragtime link-GIAC K04 tune-2007 Volkswagen GTI: 12.823 @ 112.050 MPH: http://www.dragtimes.com/Volkswagen-GTI-Timeslip-25700.html?r=1

Offline Pudding

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 500
  • Posts: 5868
Are they pretty much all the same Walbro GSS340 clones anyway? 

Forgive my ignorance but I'm not understanding why you even need an uprated LPFP for a KO4?  We don't use them in Europe until heading for 400+ hp.  Stock pump with HPFP internals is enough high 300s.  Just curious.  The TTRS pump with the transfer outlet deleted is a popular mod here, but the LPFP stage needs remapping to suit.  Also question marks as to whether the stock PWM box can sustain the current draw long term.


2007 ED30 | Ohlins Coilovers | Revo Map | Plus some other stuff | Is all a GTI needs :-)

Offline ROH ECHT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 103
  • -Receive: 121
  • Posts: 1811
  • K04 PLAY....ZOOM DIS!
Are they pretty much all the same Walbro GSS340 clones anyway? 

Forgive my ignorance but I'm not understanding why you even need an uprated LPFP for a KO4?  We don't use them in Europe until heading for 400+ hp.  Stock pump with HPFP internals is enough high 300s.  Just curious.  The TTRS pump with the transfer outlet deleted is a popular mod here, but the LPFP stage needs remapping to suit.  Also question marks as to whether the stock PWM box can sustain the current draw long term.
Ordered the Quantum three days ago and received it yesterday.

Both the DW65v and Quantum seem identical to each other and install directly into the oem basket and their wiring is a direct fit, so maybe they are clones. Yet they look to differ from the Walbro you mentioned.

Quantum; https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-28316357-quantum-265lph-direct-drop-in-performance-fuel-pump-2006-2013-volkswagen-gti-2-0l-replaces-airtex-e8424m.html

DW65v; https://store.034motorsport.com/high-flow-fuel-pump-transverse-8n-audi-mkiv-volkswagen-gti-gli-18t-vr6-deatschwerks-dw65v.html

Right, mine was run on the oem pump and hpfp upgrade when I first did the K04 and used a standard GIAC K04 tune. I switched to a tune that ran the rail pressure higher but this caused the lpfp to wear out rather soon and the low pressure suffered. The tune(open loop) had a target rail pressure of 142.5 bar and a tune-able 5.5 bar on the low side. So I also added a TTRS and it was fine but not great. The TTRS lpfp is on a 30A circuit yet limited to 17 amps in a MK5 GTI, so I added the PM3. But I hated the incorrect fuel levels on the gauge. I removed the TTRS pump, tossed it in the garage, and reinstalled the old oem pump, kept the Torqbyte PM3(knowing I would upgrade the lpfp again in the future...but wanting to see if it does indeed help the old oem lpfp, and it did by keeping low pressure from falling below 3.5 bar like the oem pump was doing without the PM3 and it did keep it above 4 bar for a while), and re-tuned it with my GIAC K04 HO tune. The GIAC K04 HO tune doesn't allow for tuning of lpfp pressures. Yet the GIAC HO tune has a target rail pressure of 140 bar and the old pump with the help of the PM3 has kept low pressure above 4 bar until recently.

The PM3 uses the oem contoller's PW and gives the pump more juice(amps) if needed which keep the oem controller from having to deliver its maximum 17 amps because the PM3 will feed up to 36 amps by converting the oem PW control signal and amplifying it resulting in higher fuel pressures seen by the G410 low pressure sensor.

Need for it for everyone? No, absolutely none. Mine ended up suffering from low pressure when I tried the open-loop tune for a few years. I now know personally that the lpfp can wear a bit quicker when a tune has increased target rail pressures. So, having returned to my original GIAC HO tune and already having the PM3...it's time to go ahead and upgrade the pump because the original oem is very tired and another oem pump may eventually wear quicker.

This is Torqbyte's explanation of the PM3;
...allows the ECU to perform complete closed-loop control of the requested fuel system pressure regardless of what aftermarket pump is installed. The ability to use any aftermarket LPFP, while keeping the ECU in complete control of its operation, is a key distinguishing feature not available with any other competing solution.
Eliminates the need for ECU LPFP "mapping", which artificially keeps the LPFP peak current draw just below the 17A shutdown threshold of the  factory fuel pump controller.
Supports, big turbo setups by removing the traditional LPFP fueling bottleneck and permitting the fuel system to hold any ECU-requested pressure.
A truly scalable solution. A single PM3 can supply up to 36A of output current to the LPFP or multiple PM3s can be installed in parallel to drive banks of high-capacity pumps (e.g. in setups using external surge tanks). Regardless of the preferred fuel system configuration, the ECU tuning stays in complete control of the low pressure fuel system's operation.
Works with any LPFP model that draws less than 36A at peak load and peak duty. With the PM3 you are not sacrificing future flexibility and limiting your options by using a fueling solution that only lets you use one particular LPFP make/model.
Works with any ECU tuning package, or even without any ECU tuning at all. With a PM3 you are not sacrificing future flexibility and limiting your options by using a fueling solution that forces you to use only one vendor's ECU tuning suite.
Compatible with voltage boosting modules and new high-voltage pumps rated for up to 20V. This is the PM3 user guide if wanting to see more...the oem controller plugs in to it and it has a separate power feed. It converts the oem signal and the PM3 feeds the lpfp a higher voltage signal; https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0810/3325/files/Torqbyte_PM3_User_Guide.pdf


This is my vid of the install that shows running the power for the PM3;
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 07:50:05 PM by ROH ECHT »
K04 PLAY...K04 turbo/S3 INJ. & FMIC/FORGE FMTC, TB hose, & WG actuator/GIAC's K04 & DSG TUNES/AWE DV/NEUSPEED P-FLO,TURBO OUTLET & TB pipe/AUTOTECH hpfp/Quantum 265L per hr LPFP/TORQBYTE PM3/BSH Eng.&Trans Mounts/H&R ARB's/W.A.L.K./ECS stage-3 BBK/BILSTEIN B8's/H&R SS springs...ZOOM'DIS My Dragtime link-GIAC K04 tune-2007 Volkswagen GTI: 12.823 @ 112.050 MPH: http://www.dragtimes.com/Volkswagen-GTI-Timeslip-25700.html?r=1

Offline ROH ECHT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 103
  • -Receive: 121
  • Posts: 1811
  • K04 PLAY....ZOOM DIS!
Damn, I wish Torqbyte had the PM4 when I got the PM3. Or maybe the PM4 'was' available and I just didn't know it could do the same as the PM3 but also 'ELIMINATES' the oem PWM/controller and can run two LPFP's without the need to run the second pump off of the boost. Yes, both APR and GIAC have second pump kits that work off of a boost switch. I had spoken to Torqbyte in the past and was awaiting their own PWM/controller to replace the oem controller. Then I saw when they placed it on their site...and quickly, within days, it was gone. Perhaps that is when the PM4 arrived on their site...with the ability to remove the oem controller when you install the PM4. The PM4 can run one or two pumps, allows you to remove the oem lpfp controller, and is self-tuning. If I need for any reason, a new controller, I am removing the pM3 and failed controller, and installing a PM4; https://torqbyte.com/products/vag-pm4-high-power-fuel-pump-control-module

This is a great alternative to run paired with an oem LPFP, TTRS LPFP ugprade, or even with a Big Turbo build that one finds themselves in need of running a dual LPFP set-up. The MK5 PWM/LPFP circuit is 15A, and the TTRS pump is maxed at 23A on a 30A circuit, and more is required to run dual pumps for big turbo set-ups. This is a 40A circuit...and can drive whatever LPFP option you need up to 36A at peak pressure. Although one may find that a TTRS LPFP may be helpful...it is not fully utilized when running on our MK5 15A circuit alone because it cannot reach its max pressure/capability.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 07:13:40 PM by ROH ECHT »
K04 PLAY...K04 turbo/S3 INJ. & FMIC/FORGE FMTC, TB hose, & WG actuator/GIAC's K04 & DSG TUNES/AWE DV/NEUSPEED P-FLO,TURBO OUTLET & TB pipe/AUTOTECH hpfp/Quantum 265L per hr LPFP/TORQBYTE PM3/BSH Eng.&Trans Mounts/H&R ARB's/W.A.L.K./ECS stage-3 BBK/BILSTEIN B8's/H&R SS springs...ZOOM'DIS My Dragtime link-GIAC K04 tune-2007 Volkswagen GTI: 12.823 @ 112.050 MPH: http://www.dragtimes.com/Volkswagen-GTI-Timeslip-25700.html?r=1