Author Topic: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car  (Read 39002 times)

Offline Pudding

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #345 on: December 08, 2018, 01:04:24 PM »
What octane booster has he tried? I've always had good improvements on the road and on the dyno with the Nitrous Formula Race Octane Booster.



I used that in my old n'asp VR6 a long time ago and it made the spark plug tips and piston crowns orange  :grin:   It wasn't that good imo.  Couldn't advance more than a couple of degrees.

Years ago I had access to Sunoco 110 octane race fuel and I was able to advance My VR6 turbo's ignition a full 10 degrees in boost, and a good 15-20 degrees off boost.   10% throttle did the same job as 25% throttle on pump fuel!  Awesome stuff, but waaaaaay too expensive for regular use  :grin:
Black Edition 30 with manually selected cogs, a beefier clutch, some extra boost and them Whiteline thingies, otherwise standard.

Offline teo_parvu

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #346 on: December 08, 2018, 05:14:44 PM »
WOOOW! That sounds awesome.
I'm concerned about more than 430-440 bhp and 600nm with stock clutches and stock internals. I'm already pushing it, good thing I'm only racing short sessions. With the new turbo that power should be achievable on pump gas.
Next step will be forged pistons & conrods and I'll try some race fuel.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 06:15:08 PM by teo_parvu »

Offline Pudding

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #347 on: December 08, 2018, 07:27:26 PM »
Yeah forged pistons  :happy2:  I had good luck with Wössner.  They're not as loose in the cylinders as say Wiseco or JE, so the oil consumption isn't high.  If you can, use drop-in ones and don't touch the factory honing.  That can also affect oil consumption.

Nice rods from Carillo would be cool  :happy2:  I think you can also use coated RS4 rod bearings in the EA113 as well for extra reliability  :happy2:

As for the clutch, you can use a TTRS pressure plate with stock or Helix friction plate, which is good for around 500lbft torque, maybe a bit more.

The weak link is the DMF, but not a lot you can do about that.  You could use a single mass flywheel I suppose if it's just for racing  :happy2:
Black Edition 30 with manually selected cogs, a beefier clutch, some extra boost and them Whiteline thingies, otherwise standard.

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #348 on: December 08, 2018, 07:37:57 PM »
Yes, the spark plugs tips get orange. Well, a couple of degrees is better than nothing. The engine can make around 15 HP more with the booster (following measures made with the factory K04 and what the tuner expected from the map with pump fuel). For a sporadic use, it’s good and much cheaper than 110 octane fuel.

Offline teo_parvu

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #349 on: December 08, 2018, 08:37:19 PM »
@Pudding
@Shoduchi

Pud, you're an infinite source of knowledge.  :happy2:
Good to know that the TTRS pressure plate can be used on our platform. Fortunately after 2 awful single-mass clutch kits, I've switched to DSG. With increased clutch pressure software, it handles 580NM superb right now, but i don't know what will happen with new TTE480 torque numbers. 

Carrillo rods are probably the best, but way too expensive and I don't think the rods are the weakest link. Was considering Tuscan rods and Mahle pistons, now I’m looking also at Wossner. If I got it right I should use 82.5. ;)

This upgrade is planned on the second part of the 2019 season, each advice is welcomed and appreciated. I've just started looking into it, because of the coming TTE.

What do you think about this kit?:
https://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/2-0l-tfsi-high-performance-pistons-conrods-set-mahle

Joaquim - 15 more hp is huge man, as I said, I appreciate all your knowledge and I hope to have the funds to try everything. So keep it coming and thanks!  :notworthy:
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 07:57:35 AM by teo_parvu »

Offline teo_parvu

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #350 on: December 09, 2018, 07:12:19 PM »
I've just spoke with my tuner who told me that he has 4 damaged Mahle motorsport pistons from different engines. They are not much better than BWJ semiforged Mahle and that he recommends JE but with service every 20k km.
Also he said that my engine should be ok for TTE480 without forged rods and pistons, and that I shouldn't worry. :scared:
In case of a failure most probably will be a piston, not a rod so there will be not much damage and that we can use 83mm pistons then.  :surprised:
Told me that my problem now will be fueling and that I should get a 165 bar valve.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 07:14:04 PM by teo_parvu »

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #351 on: December 10, 2018, 08:16:20 PM »
After some ... :thinking:  I've decided to be on the safe side and order that kit from Bar-Tek containing:

Mahle forged pistons 83mm bore and 9:1 CR
Their own Bar-Tek I Beam light rods - they say up to 1000hp
ACL Motorsport Bearings
ARP 2000 3/8 inches Connection Bolts

I hope it's the right choice because this will be a big hole on the budget, I will have to do some honing for the new pistons and revise the top side of the engine too. I already had some misfire on my last run and I suspect a valve. I will have to open the cylinder head anyway.

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #352 on: December 13, 2018, 09:48:58 PM »
Because I'll have to revise the cylinder head anyway, at least I'll do it right. I ordered the ARP 2.0 TFSI Head Stud Kit:



After 400+ bhp there is a risk of stretching the head bolts and lifting the top.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 12:53:20 PM by teo_parvu »

Offline Pudding

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #353 on: December 14, 2018, 11:30:38 AM »
Mahle are the best pistons available  :happy2:  I suspect if your tuner has seen bad ones, it was probably because of a bad tune, or other factors.  I would take Wossner as a second choice and then Wiseco.  I don't like JE.  I've used them in the past and they were sloppy in the cylinders (bad piston slap when cold) and one of them scratched a bore in my VR6 and basically ended that block  :doh:

I ran Wossner in my VR6 turbo for 60K miles with a lot of boost.  After that mileage they were spotless, the coating was still on the skirts.  Great pistons.

The OEM pistons are a special pressure casting with good quality material. They can take a lot of abuse but do give up eventually.  The main advantage of 4032 and 2618 piston alloys is the material is denser than cast, so can handle heavier loads before cracking.  Usually with aftermarket pistons, you will see a thicker top ring landing and reinforcements in the gudgeon pin area, which adds even more strength.  And they are lighter  :happy2:  You won't go wrong with Mahle.  They are OEM supplier to just about every high performance car maker out there  :happy2:

ARP head bolts, great move!  Get some ARP rod bolts as well, although they might come with the Bar-Tek kit?  I do like Bar-Tek, again, you can't go wrong with those guys  :happy2:

9:1 is a little low for the compression.  You may find engine braking reduces, starting takes a little longer and off boost response suffers a little, but you may not notice these things in a race car  :smiley:   But the up side is you can run more boost safely and also make up the compression loss with more ignition timing  :happy2:


« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 11:35:57 AM by Pudding »
Black Edition 30 with manually selected cogs, a beefier clutch, some extra boost and them Whiteline thingies, otherwise standard.

Offline teo_parvu

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White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #354 on: December 14, 2018, 12:49:06 PM »
Hey, really glad to read this. I'm happy then, I've made the right decision. VR6 turbo, WOOOW...better cars, better times :drool:
Was concern a bit about this operation, never rebuilt an engine, at least not the main block. The only repaired part was the cylinder head when the variator chain broke.

Got ARP rod bolts as well, you're right they come with the kit.  :smiley:

I've spoke with Bartek Bartoszewicz from Bar-Tek, who, I must mention, is a really helpful guy, he is responding my emails within minutes even late in the evening. He said that 9:1 compression is when using their race gasket. I will use a new OEM gasket. Mahle PowerPak+ pistons are really 9.3:1, which I hope it's good.

These PowerPak Plus pistons for TFSI are forged from M142 alloy which combines the strength of 2618 and the oem behaviour of 4032. They are triple coated first with a phosphate dry film to protect the pin bores from galling. Next, MAHLE’s proprietary anti-friction Grafal is applied to the skirts. Finally, to withstand the higher cylinder temperatures and pressures, the top ring grooves are hard anodized to protect against micro-welding.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 08:47:08 PM by teo_parvu »

Offline RBS

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #355 on: January 21, 2019, 10:46:48 PM »
Going hard  :happy2: :wink:

Offline teo_parvu

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Re: White "Lion" Cupra - DSG converted track car
« Reply #356 on: January 25, 2019, 09:25:04 PM »
Thanks man! Still waiting for the turbo to arrive, everything else is here.