MK5 Golf Cuts out while driving and hard start.

[dajackel12]

Hey,

Hope everyone's cool. I'm wondering if anyone else has had this issue or can help me out with it. I've got a MK5 Golf - 1.9 TDI 2005. BKC engine. About 2 weeks ago the car had issues starting. The first time it had an issue was a long start with the battery and starter cranking but no start. It worked eventually and no issues after that.

At this time I had it scanned and it came up with a glowplug 1 error. Didn't get a chance to change it but it doesn't seem like a glow plug issue.

Recently issue has got worse. The car starts at home and after about 5 - 15 minutes of driving the car just cuts out. The revs drop and engine cuts out straight away. The dash still  shows the fuel temp etc. The radio and indicator lights still work in dash. The power steering is also fine, it's just the engine cuts out.
When I try to restart the car after it doesn't start. Cranks fine but just keeps on cranking. After about 3 - 5 minutes the car starts again. Usually I press the accelerator which seems to help. Then the cars fine for the rest of the journey (motorways/ A-Roads/ In town) anything it's fine for that journey. Then the problem persists the next time I take it out.

Now this doesn't seem like a glowplug issue as the scan shows as it happens when the cars reached temperature. I've changed the Fuel filter yesterday but issue persists. The cars had a full service 6 months ago and the fuel pump was also changed at this time by the garage as it was weak and dying so it's got a new fuel pump in there.

The issue sounds electrical related to me as the car isn't jerking or coughing like its not got any fuel when it cuts out.

Just wondering if anyone can help as it's really frustrating.

Thanks!

[doylebros]

Get the car scanned with VCDS ( list of members who have the tool http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,88875.0.html)
and see what results that shows.

Without seeing the car I would suspect the tank fuel pump (assuming that's the pump you've already had changed or did you have the tandem pump changed)either way recheck the tank pump.
Next would be the vehicle timing it's possibly out of spec get it rechecked physically and see what the torsion values are in VCDS.

[dajackel12]

Hi thanks for the reply mate.

I believe it was the pump inside the fuel tank that was changed, they said it cost around £100 and after they changed it there was some issue with the dash showing an incorrect amount of fuel. They eventually got it fixed but that was about 6 months ago and I haven't had any issue since with that.

Spoken to a member here with VCDS in my area nad hopefully should be getting it scanned tomorrow. will keep you updated and post results.

[doylebros]

Was the fuel filter housing full when you changed the fuel filter yesterday and was the filter black I mean very black!

[dajackel12]

The fuel filter housing was less than half way full if I remember correctly. This was measured when I took the old fuel filter out. The fuel filter was slightly black but no extremely. Just abit.

[doylebros]

The scan will show if crank or cooling sensor etc but from what you've noticed I suspect that tank pump had plenty cheap ones fail early but still check the timing values!

However,also note when ECU senses the engine is hot, when starting, it does not start injecting deisel until the starter is turning engine over at 250 rpm or higher.
When hot, the engine compression is higher, so it puts a bigger demand on starter motor and battery, and hence makes it harder to reach 250 rpm threshold. (Supposedly a weak battery or weak starter can also cause same problem). Try cleaning & retightening connections onto starter motor, and battery...also try a hot start with jump leads to rule out battery from another vehicle.
After that your down to spending money for parts and starter motor faults for your model of engine are well know for this fault.

[dajackel12]

Thanks for the reply mate.

I'll definately check over the starter and battery connections but would this be causing the issue with cutting out? I think it may be the fuel not getting it but to be honest it feels like the engine cuts out straight away without any coughing or anything so would that rule out that the engine is not getting fuel?

I've been reading for hours and some people who have had a similar issue have said replacing Relay 460 has resolved the issue. I believe it's the relay for ecu. Any experience or known issues with this relay?

Thanks again mate

[doylebros]

Plenty relays fail but wait and see what the scan shows 

[dajackel12]

Back again. Met up with John A yesterday to do a scan on the car. Top guy and can be found on the Vcds owners list in Leicester. Highly recommended!

Performed the scan and we couldn't figure any obvious issues that may be causing the problem but did find a few fault codes. I've listed the scan details below and once again any advice would be great.



Wednesday,08,July,2015,17:54:49:02513
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 14.10.2.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150311
www.Ross-Tech.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 56 7D

VIN:

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: Malfunction 0010
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
7D-Aux. Heat -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 03G-906-016-BKC.lbl
   Part No SW: 03G 906 016 CB    HW: 028 101 190 0
   Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG  6176 
   Revision: 12345678    Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0586955
   Coding: 0000071
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 65CB9E1CAC681709FD9-8030

1 Fault Found:
17055 - Cylinder 1 Glow Plug Circuit (Q10)
            P0671 - 000 - Electrical Fault
             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 903 /min
                    Torque: 56.0 Nm
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Voltage: 13.98 V
                    Bin. Bits: 00001100
                    Temperature: 16.2�C
                    Bin. Bits: 10110000

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 907 379 K
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0104 
   Coding: 0021121
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 3A711D60755648F160B-806F

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1K0-820-047.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 820 047 GA    HW: 1K0 820 047 GA
   Component: Climatic PQ35   141 0909 
   Revision: 00141027    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 69D3922C40703369D91-803C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 3C0-937-049-23-M.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 937 049 S    HW: 1K0 937 049 S*
   Component: Bordnetz-SG 1.0 H30 0704 
   Revision: 00030000    Serial number: 00000000997349
   Coding: E4898F0600041800001400001400000000
   Shop #: WSC 00152 210 91233
   VCID: 3F876C746E746DD9575-806A

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K2 955 119 B  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer VW350  012  0401 
   Coding: 00065493
   Shop #: WSC 00152 

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 M  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AF.CLB
   Component: RegenLichtSens 005  0605 
   Coding: 00479269
   Shop #: WSC 00152 

4 Faults Found:
01064 - Terminal 58d; Interior Dimming
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
00526 - Brake Light Switch (F)
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
02395 - Parking Light Front Right (M3)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00987 - Lamp for Brake Light; Left (M9)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 H    HW: 1K0 909 605 H
   Component: 02 AIRBAG VW8   023 0700 
   Revision: 06023000    Serial number: 00385D0KG1L1 
   Coding: 0012338
   Shop #: WSC 01268 785 00200
   VCID: 31633A4CA8208BA9D11-8064

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MSME04490D06

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MSME0B3F0C06

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6351HSME17061A04

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6361HSME4B160F04

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
            002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 A    HW: 1K0 953 549 A
   Component: Lenks�ulenmodul 500 0030 
   Coding: 0000042
   Shop #: WSC 00152 210 91233
   VCID: 30653F48A32A82A1DEF-8065

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 920 970 F
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 1520 
   Coding: 0001401
   Shop #: WSC 00682 210 105872
   VCID: 2D5B263CB418EF49F59-8078

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 1K0-907-530-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 E    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: Gateway         H09 0110 
   Revision: 09          Serial number: 270010490800B0
   Coding: 3D0F0B40070003
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 2953D22C80F0F369191-807C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No: 1K0 920 970 F
   Component: IMMO                1520 
   Shop #: WSC 01316 111 52970
   VCID: 2D5B263CB418EF49F59-8078

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN1.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 701 E
   Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0148 
   Coding: 0000052
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 30653F48A32A82A1DEF-8065

2 Faults Found:
00096 - Drivers Door Central Locking (Safe) Motor (V161)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220)
            008 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
   Part No: 1K2 909 144 G
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.2       1301 
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 30653F48A32A82A1DEF-8065

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1K0-959-433-MIN.clb
   Part No: 1K0 959 433 BL
   Component: 01 KSG              0301 
   Coding: 98D802487F2D8505481BC69010
   Shop #: WSC 00873 210 91881
   VCID: 7BFFD8643AECB1F93BD-802E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H02 1301

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 907 719
   Component: Neigungssensor  003 0003

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1K0 951 177
   Component: Innenraumueberw.004 0101

1 Fault Found:
01134 - Alarm Horn (H12)
            004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN1.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 702 E
   Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0154 
   Coding: 0000052
   Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
   VCID: 31633A4CA8208BA9D11-8064

3 Faults Found:
00944 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Passenger Side (Z5)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00097 - Front Passengers Central Locking (Safe) Motor (V162)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221)
            008 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1K0-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 035 186 L
   Component: Radio BVX       010 0022 
   Coding: 0040402
   Shop #: WSC 00152 210 91233
   VCID: 2F673C34BE149D59C75-807A

1 Fault Found:
00857 - CD Changer Unit (R41)
            004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 7D: Aux. Heat        Labels: 1K0-963-235.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 963 235 E    HW: 1K0 963 235 E
   Component: PTC-Element         0404 
   Revision: 00800000    Serial number:               
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2D5B263CB418EF49F59-8078

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 01:31)--------------------------

[doylebros]

Firstly these faults are not easy to diagnose and can take a tremendous amount of time if you don't want to just fault find by substitution!

Further testing is required with VCDS - clear the codes see what comes straight back!

Now still test with VCDS:-

Tested the fuel tank lift pump in output testes http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/out_test.html

In measuring blocks test
The cranking rpm of the engine this has to be established by disconnecting the cylinder head wiring harness and then turning the engine over whilst observing the cranking speed in measuring blocks, it must achieve a value of more than 280rpm - as I previously stated it a known issue.

[dajackel12]

Hi mate,

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the late one back. I've not been able to get to someone with VCDS at the moment to try the tests just yet. But just an update on the situation. The issue went away for about a month completely. No cutting out or anything but it seems to be coming back as it's happened atleast 4 times over the past week.

I will try the tests previously advised but if you have any other suspicions then let me know as it's really annoying now;

Thanks again

[Shoduchi]

I'd check the fuel pump, injectors, injector seals (might be too small to show any visible leak but enough to have air in the fuel lines, but this would cause just engine starting problems), or something like it. The ECU could be faulty too, I guess, not sure if it would give errors on a VCDS scan.

[xjay1337]

Injector seals wouldn't cause an issue with the car cutting out after a while, any excessive diesel would just be burnt off as smoke.

Sounds like a fuelling issue. There's no spark on a diesel engine obviously so if it cuts out it's either an electrical sensor (crank or something but obviously not as it would show a fault) or an issue with the fuel. Does it do it more if you're driving faster or if you're driving slower, or does it make no difference?

Loads of PD 1.9's right back to the Mk4 suffer from hot starting issue, it's quite common. usually can be resolved by a map tweak.

[Shoduchi]

Injector seals wouldn't cause an issue with the car cutting out after a while, any excessive diesel would just be burnt off as smoke.

Sounds like a fuelling issue. There's no spark on a diesel engine obviously so if it cuts out it's either an electrical sensor (crank or something but obviously not as it would show a fault) or an issue with the fuel. Does it do it more if you're driving faster or if you're driving slower, or does it make no difference?

Loads of PD 1.9's right back to the Mk4 suffer from hot starting issue, it's quite common. usually can be resolved by a map tweak.

I mentioned the injector seals thinking about air entering the fuel lines and it would be the air that would cut the engine or would make the engine start more hard.

I had mine tweaked to improve the hot starts, but that's just a small thing compared to the engine cutting out while driving.

[dajackel12]

Thanks for the replies.

The car seems to cut out whenever I approach a traffic light or junction and I'm slowing down. I'll clutch in to change to a lower gear and I'll be braking then it'll cut out and lose revs. The car seems like it just loses the revs when slowing down. I'll check out the fuel pump this weekend. I've got access to another Golf thats a Cat D so I'm thinking of just swapping parts around until it's resolved. Any advise on where to start would be great.