MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Tfsi_Mike on September 09, 2011, 03:15:16 pm

Title: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on September 09, 2011, 03:15:16 pm
New split topic, following NeilM's issues yesterday I have split this topic off  :happy2:

Pic's as mentioned  :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Fea8261aa.jpg&hash=721c9bce058640dc2f8af69179cac4beeef36719)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Fe235e103.jpg&hash=4f658ee8b863e495caba8c714b188b4ddbd04503)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Fb4f5da49.jpg&hash=f72363bb6188a70eb93ef7c29a61663716e6a7a8)

Bloody hell!  Will be driving like a gay when I get to a track day now  :scared: :scared:

There are uprated ones but I think its just a tougher coating?
Title: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: SteveP on September 09, 2011, 03:19:25 pm
Neil's car had done 59k and about 15k on the Autotech internals.

We also checked mine and found the coating gone and some pitting on the surface, so a new one is due in tomorrow morning.

I don't believe this is an uprated one available.
Title: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on September 09, 2011, 03:29:32 pm

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/94514-kmd-uprated-cam-follower-stage-2-users-please-read.html (http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/94514-kmd-uprated-cam-follower-stage-2-users-please-read.html)

Great Vid Neil  :notworthy:
Title: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: MAT ED30 on September 09, 2011, 03:45:44 pm
If anyone has a spare cam follower I might know someone that could make some better ones and will also know know about having them coated in whatever is needed  :smiley:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: SteveP on September 09, 2011, 08:06:52 pm
A bit more info on the known issues with the earlier cars

[pdf]http://www.kmdtuning.com/store/images/150702TSB(2).pdf[/pdf]
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: vRSAlex on September 09, 2011, 08:12:35 pm
Don't use the kmd uprated ones.  They break faster then the oe ones.

Oe ones are still the best.  I check mine ever 5k and replace if there are any marks at all.  Usually always marked too.
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: yin on September 09, 2011, 08:14:00 pm
Don't use the kmd uprated ones.  They break faster then the oe ones.

Oe ones are still the best.  I check mine ever 5k and replace if there are any marks at all.  Usually always marked too.

How much do you charge to change them  Alex ?
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: vRSAlex on September 09, 2011, 08:31:03 pm
I don't actually know.  Best thing would be to email steve@backdraftmotorsport.com and he can work it out.  Doubt it would be much.

Some quite good guides on here too if you want to save a few quid. :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: yin on September 09, 2011, 08:43:42 pm
I don't actually know.  Best thing would be to email steve@backdraftmotorsport.com and he can work it out.  Doubt it would be much.

Some quite good guides on here too if you want to save a few quid. :happy2:

Cheers Alex i was going to book it in for service with you anyway  :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: vRSAlex on September 09, 2011, 08:47:44 pm
I don't actually know.  Best thing would be to email steve@backdraftmotorsport.com and he can work it out.  Doubt it would be much.

Some quite good guides on here too if you want to save a few quid. :happy2:

Cheers Alex i was going to book it in for service with you anyway  :happy2:

 :drinking: :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: bacillus on September 09, 2011, 08:54:20 pm
If you want to stop this happening and have the cash, H2sport has a total solution.

"2.0t FSI Cam Follower Fix!


We have successfully tested our fuel pump upgrade and have determined the final kit contents.

The Concept: In essence the upgrade uses a roller cam follower in lieu of the stock flat face follower. The advantages of the roller follower are long life and lower friction.

The Details: In detail the new roller follower is larger in diameter than the original flat face follower. This requires a new mount bracket that houses the roller follower and mounts the fuel pump – see below.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.h2sport.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fengine%2Ffsi_fuel_pump%2FRoller_and_Mount.jpg&hash=0c3c5740207926c10d01ea0c23a8b00aff64e026)
Upgraded Roller Follower (left) and Fuel Pump Mount (right)

Also, and most importantly, the cam profile is revised to achieve the right fuel pressure at the right time. Revising the cam profile is necessary because the lift of a roller follower versus a flat face follower isn’t the same. Simply put you can’t just swap a flat face follower for a roller follower and get the same lift. You have to revise the cam profile too. To the casual eye the new profile may look like the old, but when view side-by-side the difference is obvious.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.h2sport.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fengine%2Ffsi_fuel_pump%2FCam_and_Housing.jpg&hash=4a3b5ec50c097736e229c6d904fbe013c9ee8a6d)
Revised Cam Profile (lower left) and End Cover

The challenge with the upgrade kit was how to cost effectively revise the cam profile and modify the end cover. In the end we decided the proper way will be for customers to send us their intake cam and end cover which we in turn will install the revised cam profile and modify the end cover – all with same day turn around.

The Kit: The compete upgrade kit consists of a roller cam follower, a fuel pump mount bracket, a revised cam profile, modified end cover, longer fuel pump mount bolts, O-rings, and a new end cover gasket.

http://www.h2sport.com/



Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: gazbutS3 on September 09, 2011, 08:55:08 pm
sh*t the bed, thats not good, any cam damage????

I change the oil every 5k and the follower every 10k, might be a bit over the top, but makes me happy :laugh:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: SteveP on September 09, 2011, 08:56:44 pm
Didn't appear to be any Gaz, was very lucky it wasn't running for long with the dodgy follower.
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: vRS Carl on September 09, 2011, 09:08:51 pm
If anyone has a spare cam follower I might know someone that could make some better ones and will also know know about having them coated in whatever is needed  :smiley:

I have a used one that i no longer need.

PM me your address and i will post it to you next week  :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: gazbutS3 on September 09, 2011, 09:34:45 pm
I have 3 you can have Matt, not much wear on any of them :smiley:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: Poppa Dom on September 09, 2011, 09:35:41 pm
I have 3 you can have Matt, not much wear on any of them :smiley:
That's because of how often you've changed them  :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: SteveP on September 09, 2011, 09:38:50 pm
Changing mine tomorrow so will have a very worn one spare  :laugh:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: MAT ED30 on September 09, 2011, 09:41:42 pm
Pm inbound Gaz  :happy2: it's a mate of mine who has a cnc machine and this laser machine that takes all the info from the normal part and then he can make it on the cnc machine and make it out of whatever he thinks is better for the job
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: gazbutS3 on September 09, 2011, 09:42:09 pm
I have 3 you can have Matt, not much wear on any of them :smiley:
That's because of how often you've changed them  :happy2:
yup  :smiley:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: gazbutS3 on September 09, 2011, 09:45:52 pm
Pm inbound Gaz  :happy2: it's a mate of mine who has a cnc machine and this laser machine that takes all the info from the normal part and then he can make it on the cnc machine and make it out of whatever he thinks is better for the job

thats the problem, finding a suitable material, it has to be hard but not harder than the cam material, because although we don't like worn followers its their job. Its much better to have the follower wear than the cam, not ideal but by design its what we have :smiley:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: SteveP on September 09, 2011, 09:48:29 pm
^^^ That's why I don't like the idea of the KMD one, it says it made of the same grade material as the cam  :confused:

I am going to stick with regular replacements of the OEM one  :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: gazbutS3 on September 09, 2011, 09:50:36 pm
^^^ That's why I don't like the idea of the KMD one, it says it made of the same grade material as the cam  :confused:

I am going to stick with regular replacements of the OEM one  :happy2:

me too, regular oil and follower changes for me, can do them in no time now
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: MAT ED30 on September 09, 2011, 09:54:19 pm
Worth an ask I think
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: NeilM on September 09, 2011, 09:59:31 pm
Amazingly the lads have the engine out and with the engine builder already  :happy2:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Foo163%2Fneilmelvin%2F1-20.jpg&hash=38e3a1c80ec72928423cad9d4b22b8b21dc00409)

I think I may have got away without damage to the cam, just dont know how far the bits went so stripping it down.

I've seen pictures of worn ones but never like that  :surprised:

Also ordered one of these  :happy2:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Foo163%2Fneilmelvin%2FCamFollower.jpg&hash=d56eedbf75f8c9d68804fe84408a50859b49cd0f)
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on September 09, 2011, 10:02:22 pm

 :signLOL:  @ Tshirt!
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: SteveP on September 09, 2011, 10:03:03 pm
I was just looking at them too  :laugh:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: chungster on September 09, 2011, 10:05:58 pm
I was just looking at them too  :laugh:


But it's got ur favourite company on it!!!  :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: gazbutS3 on September 09, 2011, 10:06:24 pm
would be rude not to uprate a few internals while its in bits Neil, or at least blueprint it :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: vRSAlex on September 09, 2011, 10:39:07 pm
Engine out :confused:

It should be fine with just a cam change.  The follow bits tend to stay in the end case so hopefully the rest of the lump is fine.
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: Poppa Dom on September 09, 2011, 11:38:43 pm
Uprated rods whilst it's out and then ..... And then ..... :signLOL:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: SteveP on September 11, 2011, 04:35:15 pm
Swapped my follower today, here's what I found

Old follower

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-165.jpg&hash=8bacfa49aa4806c0ed050175608710e7e06c3800)

Vs. New
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-160.jpg&hash=77e20408fe1f79b3926c88a3466a4e6f003f6c6d)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-162.jpg&hash=082c81ecc9c411c9ec14bf31a64ed406800b6666)

APR pump showing no major wear at all

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-163.jpg&hash=f4ed161921f6cccc77944a7739bef508fcc3fad0)

And nothing major again on the cam either

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fkk207%2FStevep_010%2Ffile-164.jpg&hash=271656294d8169bf2aa275bf14d026eb21cb881d)
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: Saint Steve on September 11, 2011, 05:08:06 pm
Why is the old follower full of pits?  Have you checked all of the camshaft lob for damage Steve?
 :surprised:

Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on September 11, 2011, 05:11:28 pm

Cam lobe was pictured above, wear looks even and negligable...
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: Saint Steve on September 11, 2011, 05:12:10 pm
Only half of it mike....

What's not to say the other side has a nasty Pit causing that damage ..
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: QD MBE on September 11, 2011, 05:15:37 pm
Would be interesting to have a real look at that old follower.  I Could send it down to the egg-heads that I have dealings with.

They have all sorts of microscopes and gizmo's at their disposal, they routinely carry out testing on modes of failure on aircraft components.

 :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: rich83 on September 11, 2011, 05:25:01 pm
Could that be caused by microscopic metal pieces in the oil?
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on September 11, 2011, 05:27:40 pm

Metal sump plug should help against that  :wink:

http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/product.php?xProd=6807 (http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/product.php?xProd=6807)

Some one needs to make a magnetic shallow sump, perfect gift for paranoid motorists lol
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: MAT ED30 on September 11, 2011, 05:34:11 pm
When was the last oil change done Steve?
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: TT-Turbo on September 11, 2011, 06:13:22 pm
It seems there are a lot of people against the KMD stuff. I have been speaking to them a lot of recent and they assured me that the Cam follower they use was similar to the OEM grade of metal and just a better design and being slightly larger, so theoretically it needs to be replaced less often. They had some problem's with the original fuel pump internals but the new version is also supposed to be very good.

Would be interested to hear any feedback from anyone with more info on all of this. 
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: SteveP on September 11, 2011, 06:42:12 pm
When was the last oil change done Steve?

2.5k miles ago.
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: SteveP on September 11, 2011, 10:35:02 pm
Would be interesting to have a real look at that old follower.  I Could send it down to the egg-heads that I have dealings with.

They have all sorts of microscopes and gizmo's at their disposal, they routinely carry out testing on modes of failure on aircraft components.

 :happy2:

Might take you up on that offer QD  :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: QD MBE on September 12, 2011, 07:21:04 am
Do  Mr P.  Would be interesting.  I will give them a bell, they are down in Pompey, and I have stuff going down that way all the time.
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: SteveP on September 12, 2011, 07:35:21 am
Cheers  :notworthy: :notworthy: I will get it in the post tomorrow :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: vRStu on September 12, 2011, 07:57:56 am
Do  Mr P.  Would be interesting.  I will give them a bell, they are down in Pompey, and I have stuff going down that way all the time.

Are they in the yard now Dave or still at Fleetlands??
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: QD MBE on September 12, 2011, 09:11:01 am
Stu, they are now at Unicorn Gate.

Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: PDT on September 12, 2011, 08:46:47 pm
As someone else mentioned, I would take a look at the entire cam lobe if I removed a follower that looked like that.
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: vRSAlex on September 12, 2011, 09:01:39 pm
As someone else mentioned, I would take a look at the entire cam lobe if I removed a follower that looked like that.

+1
Title: Re: HPFP Cam Follower Issues
Post by: micky 32 on September 12, 2011, 11:37:25 pm
I usually replace my follower at 15k with the autotech and it's never too bad. Just the black starting to wear off. My last one i  didn't change until it got close to 20k and when i took it out i was surprised no wear whatsoever! It seems VW have uprated it a bit. Putting them side by side against my older followers it seems the black bit is thicker  :happy2:

Can be seen here:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fy195%2Fmickyhea%2Fcam2.jpg&hash=605839dffe2a99d42a041ed2e655113d77e2a338)