±±±±±± Formula 1, 2012 Season. ±±±±±

[Kalpsn2000]

I think this year has been ruined by Pirelli. it is not about who is the best driver or who has the fastest car, it is all about which team has the best analysts and Managers. You are going to get situations like today quite often unless they change the tyre deg. What is the point of having no racing and cars doing 95 % of what they are capable of.  I dont mind the tyres being hard to figure out but when the answer is to just mother them until the end of the race then in my opinion it is carp. 

100% Agree!

Give them tyres they can race on!

Do they design there road tyres to work in such a small envelope?

I'm sure Pirelli are doing what's asked of them. Its up to the organisers to request a change if they feel it necessary.

[mad_pete]

They are trying to find ways to create speed differences on the track to create overtaking. DRS was one way but the current cars are in danger of being a procession from start to finish because of the aerodynamics.

[Janner_Sy]

if you hadnt been able to hear any of the commentary or radio transmissions or complaints about the tyres would you be moaning about it?  Th racing is and has been good. They tyre's are a massive contributor to that fact.  As Mad_Pete said, because of Aero dynamics being so much a factor in F1 its can be too hard to get close enough to overtake, DRS and tyres allow this to occur and F1 is all the better for it IMO

[RedRobin]

.
Seb Vettel beat Webber to the chequered flag on track in fair tooth-n-claw racing, so I don't see why he should apologise to anyone other than in the interests of diplomacy with the Red Bull team management - Which he has done publicly. I was disappointed that he apologised.

To some degree there is a conflict of interests between what drivers want to achive and what teams want to achieve. They both need each other.

Anyway, matters will get discussed behind closed doors at Red Bull.

[Hedge]

What was fair about it Robin?

Webber obeys the team order to wind things back and the greedy German steals the win via some reckless overtaking. If that's fair in your book I think it needs a reprint. 

[Greeners]

Webber has on more than one occasion been on the receiving end of team orders where the little sh*t has benefitted. The fact he ignored the teams request for him to do the same for his 'Team' mate (emphasis on the word team!) just speaks volumes to me. I have mentioned in this very thread on numerous occasions that although likeable there is something about him that doesn't sit well with me.

True colours being shown IMO.  

EDIT: I see Hedge is singing of the same hymn sheet as me! 

[MAT ED30]

What hedge said he was told to wind the engine tune back to save fuel and other stresses but vettal was not playing ball

[RedRobin]

What was fair about it Robin?

Webber obeys the team order to wind things back and the greedy German steals the win via some reckless overtaking. If that's fair in your book I think it needs a reprint.  

....Regardless of team orders Webber fought back on track but didn't succeed. What has the fact that Vettel is German got to do with it?

I think the rule book does need rewriting and doing away with team orders.

This is a sport with very substantial sums of money and commercial success at stake - It's not a sport for 'gentlemen' and this has been demonstrated for as long as the sport has been in existence.

IMO, Vettel's "true colours" are nothing to be ashamed of - To win you need to be ruthless.

In every single race there is always a driver who might 'deserve' to win but for one reason or another, he doesn't. It's not about who deserves to win or even who you happen to be a fan of.

[RedRobin]

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This is an interesting read on the subject of Vettel's behaviour...........

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/03/analysis-why-did-vettel-ignore-team-orders-and-pass-webber/

[Hedge]

Did you watch the same race as the rest of us Robin?

Vettel is German Robin or hadn't you noticed?

I hope because he thinks he is better than the team that he gets his knuckles rapped. If not it will be as Webber said and Red Bull are protecting him.  

[RedRobin]

Did you watch the same race as the rest of us Robin?

Vettel is German Robin or hadn't you noticed?

I hope because he thinks he is better than the team that he gets his knuckles rapped. If not it will be as Webber said and Red Bull are protecting him. 

....Yes, Vettel is indeed a German. I merely asked why you mentioned it as I don't see what his nationality has to do with the subject being discussed.

As you say, and I have also said, the events will be discussed behind Red Bull closed doors, knuckles most likely rapped and they will doubtless work out what the best thing to say to the public is.

But, what really matters is the number of points at the end of the championship and Vettel may have gained points at Sepang which make the difference between him winning the driver's championship or not. All this hoo-ha will be forgotten.

Whatever goes on at Red Bull, the 2013 season is already looking as if it will be very closely contended again.

[RedRobin]

[Janner_Sy]

RR you could see in the replays that ark could have literally pushed Vettel right off of the track and kept him behind but Mark obviously doesnt see himself as bigger than the team.  Plus when Mark has turned his engine down its hardly surprising Vettel had the speed after he didnt bother listening to the team order and kept his on full power.

Alot of ex F1 stars are calling for Vettel to receive a 1 race ban(awarded by the team) to show him hes not bigger than the team.  I think that would be a great idea.

I was actually gutted Alonso crashed out, which i never thought id say.  After watching him lst season i have ALOT more respect for him than i did before, he deserved it last season and might be the best chance we have of seeing redbull knocked off the next title.

[Kalpsn2000]

RR you could see in the replays that ark could have literally pushed Vettel right off of the track and kept him behind but Mark obviously doesnt see himself as bigger than the team.  Plus when Mark has turned his engine down its hardly surprising Vettel had the speed after he didnt bother listening to the team order and kept his on full power.

Alot of ex F1 stars are calling for Vettel to receive a 1 race ban(awarded by the team) to show him hes not bigger than the team.  I think that would be a great idea.

I was actually gutted Alonso crashed out, which i never thought id say.  After watching him lst season i have ALOT more respect for him than i did before, he deserved it last season and might be the best chance we have of seeing redbull knocked off the next title.

That's up to the team to decide as he hasn't broken any rules (apart from team orders), and there is no chance Red Bull will do that. At the end of the day I don't see why the public/press is getting involved in internal matters.

[Kalpsn2000]