Author Topic: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 8th track day at Estoril  (Read 97747 times)

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #600 on: December 08, 2018, 07:51:52 PM »
Wow, lots of updates  :smiley:

IC looks great  :happy2:

The reason for the high coast down losses is because of 5th gear.  You will also measure less wheel torque at the roller in 5th and 6th.   4th is 1:1 ratio (no gearing at all effectively - 1 crank revolution = 1 road wheel revolution) and will read the most accurate wheel torque, and will also have the least coast down losses.  5th and 6th takes longer to slow the dyno down, hence the high losses.  And similarly, you shouldn't dyno a car in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear because they increase wheel torque, but you would get smaller losses  :happy2:

I've never heard of wheel torque being 'too low' for a dyno before, that is strange!

I really would not concern yourself with that stuff.  It's just numbers.  It's obvious in the driving seat when modifications work  :happy2:

The problem with the test in 4th gear is that the bench didn’t push the engine enough to make full boost, so the torque measured was only 443 Nm, so the engine power was 398 CV with that torque. Measuring in 5th gear, being an heavier gear, really pushes the engine to its full power. It measured in 5th gear on the 1st test 412 CV/480 Nm. Then I asked to test in 4th, which didn’t seem to be a true test with the least torque I’ve seen measured (the exhaust sound was also weaker on that run). So I requested a final run in 5th gear to be sure about the numbers. It came with a bit more torque than the 1st test and similar power (409 CV/495 Nm). When I had the K04 the car measured 500 Nm in 5th gear on a different Maha dyno.

The dyno owner didn’t want to modify the dyno’s factory settings. Not sure if with more roller brake in 4th the car would measure better.  :thinking:

Offline teo_parvu

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Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #601 on: December 12, 2018, 07:08:01 PM »
Hmmm...that is strange indeed, but as I said before 8.2 is really fast and I believe there was a dyno issue. Anyway, do you use a 155/165 fpr valve, my tuner told me that I need one for good fueling with TTE? What is your opinion about the MFactory LSD?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 06:08:05 AM by teo_parvu »

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #602 on: December 13, 2018, 12:22:33 AM »
I got the 165 bar FPRV from AKS Tuning. You’ll need the upgraded LPFP too, at least I needed it because the stock wasn’t able to keep a safe pressure during long periods of full throttle. I’ve updated the initial post with all my mods, if you want to check anything else.  :smiley:

The MFactory LSD is rated to 1000 HP, since it’s made of forged steel. I don’t have any experience to compare with other brands. I can say that it works. Both my front wheels spin at the same speed when I accelerate hard. 

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Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #603 on: December 13, 2018, 06:18:17 AM »
Ok, then I’ll get a 165 fpr valve too, I’ve heard good things about Dynodrome, that is 200 euros + 25 shipping, I’ll have to ask AKS about their price too.
I’m already using an additional Bosh 044 LPFP and RS4 injectors, I’m ready for the new turbo.
The reason I asked about MFactory is because I had the Wavetrac LSD before the Quaife and I can’t really remember how it is to drive over 300bhp on the front wheels without diff. Some guys say it is useless.

Thanks,

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #604 on: December 13, 2018, 11:54:14 AM »
Well, without an LSD I had to wait to straighten the wheels to be able to accelerate hard. On corners, I'd just get wheel spin on the inside wheel. For track day and time attacks, you definitely need an LSD. For fast road use, I guess you can live without one since it's an expensive upgrade.

You have plenty of fuel with those injectors and LPFP. I'm on stock injectors, that's why I really needed the reinforced FPRV. Your tuner to say that you'll need it too, I guess he wants to be on the safe side. :smiley:

Offline Pudding

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #605 on: December 14, 2018, 11:40:30 AM »
Wow, lots of updates  :smiley:

IC looks great  :happy2:

The reason for the high coast down losses is because of 5th gear.  You will also measure less wheel torque at the roller in 5th and 6th.   4th is 1:1 ratio (no gearing at all effectively - 1 crank revolution = 1 road wheel revolution) and will read the most accurate wheel torque, and will also have the least coast down losses.  5th and 6th takes longer to slow the dyno down, hence the high losses.  And similarly, you shouldn't dyno a car in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear because they increase wheel torque, but you would get smaller losses  :happy2:

I've never heard of wheel torque being 'too low' for a dyno before, that is strange!

I really would not concern yourself with that stuff.  It's just numbers.  It's obvious in the driving seat when modifications work  :happy2:

The problem with the test in 4th gear is that the bench didn’t push the engine enough to make full boost, so the torque measured was only 443 Nm, so the engine power was 398 CV with that torque. Measuring in 5th gear, being an heavier gear, really pushes the engine to its full power. It measured in 5th gear on the 1st test 412 CV/480 Nm. Then I asked to test in 4th, which didn’t seem to be a true test with the least torque I’ve seen measured (the exhaust sound was also weaker on that run). So I requested a final run in 5th gear to be sure about the numbers. It came with a bit more torque than the 1st test and similar power (409 CV/495 Nm). When I had the K04 the car measured 500 Nm in 5th gear on a different Maha dyno.

The dyno owner didn’t want to modify the dyno’s factory settings. Not sure if with more roller brake in 4th the car would measure better.  :thinking:

That is a strange.  Standard practice on dynos is to use a 1:1 to gear ratio, or as close as possible.  Maybe 5th is reasonably close to 1:1, I haven't studied the gear ratios in DSG or manual, but mine was measured in 4th and had no trouble putting the right numbers down.  4th usually is 1:1 in most gearboxes though.  My tuner uses an old Sun Dyno from decades ago  :grin:  Maybe the newer ones are more sensitive.  Not sure.  Great numbers either way  :happy2:
Black Edition 30 with manually selected cogs, a beefier clutch, some extra boost and them Whiteline thingies, otherwise standard.

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #606 on: December 14, 2018, 11:51:08 AM »
That is a strange.  Standard practice on dynos is to use a 1:1 to gear ratio, or as close as possible.  Maybe 5th is reasonably close to 1:1, I haven't studied the gear ratios in DSG or manual, but mine was measured in 4th and had no trouble putting the right numbers down.  4th usually is 1:1 in most gearboxes though.  My tuner uses an old Sun Dyno from decades ago  :grin:  Maybe the newer ones are more sensitive.  Not sure.  Great numbers either way  :happy2:

It made good numbers for a lower boost pressure than with the K04, which was what I wanted too when I decided to go for this upgrade. Lower boost levels should mean lower IAT on track. And no surge too. :smiley:

Offline Pudding

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #607 on: December 14, 2018, 11:54:40 AM »
That is a strange.  Standard practice on dynos is to use a 1:1 to gear ratio, or as close as possible.  Maybe 5th is reasonably close to 1:1, I haven't studied the gear ratios in DSG or manual, but mine was measured in 4th and had no trouble putting the right numbers down.  4th usually is 1:1 in most gearboxes though.  My tuner uses an old Sun Dyno from decades ago  :grin:  Maybe the newer ones are more sensitive.  Not sure.  Great numbers either way  :happy2:

It made good numbers for a lower boost pressure than with the K04, which was what I wanted too when I decided to go for this upgrade. Lower boost levels should mean lower IAT on track. And no surge too. :smiley:

Yes exactly, I was just saying that in Csirgo's thread. Less stress on the turbo (compared to KO4) and more power too, win win  :happy2:

It's too late now, but I discovered recently the Ohlins kit now has TUV approval  :grin:
Black Edition 30 with manually selected cogs, a beefier clutch, some extra boost and them Whiteline thingies, otherwise standard.

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #608 on: December 14, 2018, 11:56:20 AM »
Yes exactly, I was just saying that in Csirgo's thread. Less stress on the turbo (compared to KO4) and more power too, win win  :happy2:

It's too late now, but I discovered recently the Ohlins kit now has TUV approval  :grin:

I only a TUV certificate for the Golf mk6, not the mk5. :confused:

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #609 on: December 14, 2018, 12:02:44 PM »
Yes exactly, I was just saying that in Csirgo's thread. Less stress on the turbo (compared to KO4) and more power too, win win  :happy2:

It's too late now, but I discovered recently the Ohlins kit now has TUV approval  :grin:

I only a TUV certificate for the Golf mk6, not the mk5. :confused:

MK5 as well now  :wink: https://www.ohlins.eu/en/products/automotive/skoda-octavia-rs-04-13--36/

Thankfully we don't need approvals in the UK!
Black Edition 30 with manually selected cogs, a beefier clutch, some extra boost and them Whiteline thingies, otherwise standard.

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #610 on: December 14, 2018, 12:20:13 PM »
Yes exactly, I was just saying that in Csirgo's thread. Less stress on the turbo (compared to KO4) and more power too, win win  :happy2:

It's too late now, but I discovered recently the Ohlins kit now has TUV approval  :grin:

I only a TUV certificate for the Golf mk6, not the mk5. :confused:

MK5 as well now  :wink: https://www.ohlins.eu/en/products/automotive/skoda-octavia-rs-04-13--36/

Thankfully we don't need approvals in the UK!

 :surprised:

Too late now!  :sad1:
Not that the B16 aren't good, I'm not even driving on the softest setting on daily driving on the front (6/10 at the moment).
Oh well! Good news for whoever looks for a good coilover kit in countries where the TUV certificate is needed. Thanks for the tip. :happy2:

Offline csrigo

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #611 on: December 15, 2018, 12:17:53 PM »
New mods look to be working a treat mate very impressive :happy2:. Im also interested in your opinion on your LSD...does it help prevent any straight line traction loss at all that you may have noticed...or just cornering as you would expect?

Was going to ask yourself and pudding your thoughts on whether or not its worth fitting a TTE turbo running the same levels of boost? I belive its a different scenario as compared to yourself as im running a standard back box so not sure if its worth it but after reading your post about no surge and lower AITs i may take the plunge....although you have a full system so maybe hard to tell...id be intersted in puddings thoughts on this also as my turbo does whine a bit now...nobody else notices and you cant hear it outside but i can...not burning oil either...any thghts from your experience?

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #612 on: December 15, 2018, 04:13:59 PM »
New mods look to be working a treat mate very impressive :happy2:. Im also interested in your opinion on your LSD...does it help prevent any straight line traction loss at all that you may have noticed...or just cornering as you would expect?

Was going to ask yourself and pudding your thoughts on whether or not its worth fitting a TTE turbo running the same levels of boost? I belive its a different scenario as compared to yourself as im running a standard back box so not sure if its worth it but after reading your post about no surge and lower AITs i may take the plunge....although you have a full system so maybe hard to tell...id be intersted in puddings thoughts on this also as my turbo does whine a bit now...nobody else notices and you cant hear it outside but i can...not burning oil either...any thghts from your experience?

The LSD helps going faster in a straight line too but not as much. With the LSD both wheels spin at the same time, so although the wheels spin if you floor the accelerator, the car moves forward better.

I've replied about the turbo in your build thread. It wouldn't be that expensive to just get an upgraded exhaust back box. You can always keep an eye out for a 2nd hand one. Maybe running ~1.5-1.6 bar of boost wouldn't be too much with the stock back box. Try contacting Niki to know what he thinks of that setup.

Turbo whining, if it's light, doesn't mean you'll have issues that soon. It might just keep like that if you treat it well (not boosting when cold and letting it cool down when hot). :thinking:

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #613 on: December 15, 2018, 04:25:14 PM »
Maps updated to V16 (2019). :smiley:


Offline Shoduchi

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Re: Candy White Golf GTI Ed. 30 - 7th track day at Estoril
« Reply #614 on: January 08, 2019, 01:16:51 PM »
I started hearing a more noticeable knock when going through potholes after fitting the new IC from the front left of my car. I'm sure it was there before but much more subtle. I thought it was just the VWR drop links that knock a bit on rough roads. After a bit of investigation the source of the knock was found. It was the left arm of the steering rack... The internal slack happened to my car too. Fortunately a friend had upgraded his recently to get Lane Assist working on his Golf mk5 (a Gen 3 steering rack is needed for that to work), so I asked him if he could source another from the same parts breaker. He knew they had another in good condition. After a short call it was paid and the shipping was sorted.

Two weeks ago I finally had time to go get it fitted. Another friend showed up with VCP and flashed the steering rack, that was from a Leon mk2, to have the mk6 GTI steering weight profile. He also updated the firmware version. :smiley:



Calibrated the steering angle sensor and it was done. All coded with no errors. :grin:

I think the steering weight profile from the mk6 GTI is like our factory profile. I prefer it to the mk6 R that I have on my diesel mk5 (lighter steering when driving slow).

No more loud knocks (just the subtle knocks from the VWR drop links...). :jumping:

Oh, and I'm waiting for new track tyres: Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R. :driver: