MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: RedRobin on December 17, 2009, 01:10:59 pm
-
....
WHY?:
Air to fuel is fundamental to internal combustion engines and so as you slide down the slippery slope of modding yelling "Yippee!", sooner or later you will feel an uncontrollable urge to replace your oem air intake. What has possibly kept you from doing so earlier is that you might not have wanted to frighten away your VW warranty when your dealer's workshop opens your bonnet and is alarmed to think a python has sneaked into your engine bay as most aftermarket air intakes are of the high-flow tubular variety.
Aftermarket air intakes are so often criticised for being poor value-for-money. Indeed, when used on a standard car without any other performance modifications they are not cost effective at all. The oem air intake is adequate but doesn't seek to deliver especially cold air because standard cars are designed to also be sold in climates where cold starting and running may even be an issue. It's that same old consideration of factory cars needing to compromise in order to more efficiently appeal to their biggest mass market - There's nothing wrong with that but it's why some of us think we can improve our cars by modding, and the truth is that we succeed.
And so the objective part of the question of 'why', is that having an aftermarket air intake will usually improve both the flow and temperature of air and hence improve whole performance, though it must be said that the stock air intake system is very good and takes air from the most efficient inlet position. The subjective part is as complex as most of the human individuals who are making the choice, but tend to be based on the following considerations (not in order of importance):-
- Performance
- Standard of manufacture
- Ease of maintenance
- Sound
- Appearance aka 'Eye-Candy'
- Price
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FEvoms%2FEngineBayBonnet.jpg&hash=aaac011e246198271714b4472b233f5ba0e3b8d6)
BREATHE IN!:
Most aftermarket specialists agree that the Volkswagen boffins were right to position the stock inlet at the top of the front grill just under the bonnet's leading edge to ram air to the filter. Forge have placed their TWINtake's principal inlet in the same position. They are not the first to do this but they are the first to also position an additional inlet and second, twin filter in the side behind the headlight.
In development Forge conducted tests with both one and two filtered inlets and surprisingly, the addition of the second sealed inlet behind the headlight showed an increase in airflow and power over a single ram air design. Incidentally they plan to release a single filter version in due course.
TWO INLETS + TWO FILTERS:
Most people on first setting eyes on the TWINtake (Forge's spelling) are very puzzled by there being not one but two filters. Does this work? But how can this possibly work efficiently? Is it just a gimmick? TWINcooler, TWINtake, are Forge now committed to only giving birth to twins? In my effort to understand this unusual intake I asked myself these questions and more. For those readers who are interested the answers are fairly lengthy:
Having twin filters is not a new idea on cars but Forge decided in early 2009 to investigate its potential for the 2.0T FSI engine (and now TSI version). As a relatively small English company with an established good reputation they would not have released it without spending an appropriate amount of time ensuring it worked flawlessly.
The main idea, though, is to create sealed inlets that allow for the introduction of the coolest ambient air possible. There are numerous debates among 'internet experts' but if the turbo system heats the air by say 50-70C before it hits the intercooler and the intercooler takes that back down by say 30-40C, then every degree colder your intake air then the lower your intake air temperatures are going to be post intercooler.
Cold air intake temp + Turbo increase temp - Intercooler reduction in temp = IA Temp in the manifold.
Apart from having the largest total possible surface area to the filtering media there are other benefits to a twin filter setup: Consider that a given filter size will present a given level of restriction to airflow, based primarily on the density of the filtering media. This will result in a given level of vacuum after the filter. Two identical filters, of the same level of restriction, applied to the same application as in this case, will apparently double the effective airflow possible by decreasing the restriction by roughly half. This will equate to more power potential.
The incorporation of a second filter doesn't introduce more airflow volume. The 70mm piping, which Forge say is the max allowable for proper MAF calibration, will only flow a finite volume of air regardless of the number of filters used. Higher flowing air filters, however, provide for a reduction in effort required to draw air through them due to a decrease in flow restriction. A larger surface area through which airflow is introduced, provides for the least possible restriction in flow.
REDUCING RESTRICTIONS:
I guess that if you've read this far, you're ok to read some more! Following the question of why bother to have twin fllters, the next question is what the heck happens when the two air flows meet and both enter the same pipe? Do we enter a wild whirlpool of turbulent air and spin out of control?
Even though all of the air is condensed into the single pipe, and any given vehicle is only going to demand so much air based on other modifications, tuning, load, etc., the faster the air gets into the engine, the better.
The filters themselves are the only components posing a restriction to the airflow. Imagine if you remove the filters entirely, there would be no restriction at all. But this isn't exactly safe for a daily driver. Adding more surface area to the filtering media, however, has a similar effect. There are more openings present that the air can flow through, so the demand placed on each is less, which effectively reduces the restriction and increases flow. You might draw the analogy that by having less draw from one filter, less air particles have to force their way through that filter, so it's like opening a new checkout in a grocery store.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FTwinPipe_angles.jpg&hash=63c39fe2371f680d541a0439c99240ed6e7a11ee)
THE HOLY MAF:
The oem MAF housing incorporated into the stock intake/airbox assembly is actually ovoid in shape and is roughly equivalent to just under 70mm (inside diameter). The piping Forge use is 70mm (outside diameter). Once you factor in the wall thickness of the pipe, this is virtually identical to the stock MAF size. This is the same size piping Forge have been using in all of their 2.0T specific intakes for years now. I have specifically questioned Forge about this and am assured that there are no issues with MAF calibrations whatsoever.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FMAFhousing.jpg&hash=7856f4ac1c42dc1188adc7269331a247a9453c94)
ALTERNATIVE INTAKES:
- The simplest is an aftermarket panel filter in the stock engine cover box and an efficiently flowing ram intake such as a Carbonio.
- High-flow tubular air intakes with open filter cone and a cradle to help shield from engine bay heat. EVOMS, VF, BSH, are typical and prices from £150 to around £320. In JKM's experience on the K03 turbo, the EVOMS offers the greatest power increase of about 15 bhp on the K03 and closer to 20 bhp on the K04. They are somewhat unimpressed by the cheaper BSH.
- High-flow tubular but with cone filter fully enclosed and more expensive. Dbilas, GruppeM, and AWE are typical and APR are at early stages of development but are concerned that their costs and R&D may stop it coming to market.
- ITG Maxogen - This deserves particular mention because it is new and showing to be a high performer on the K04. At this time of writing it remains to be seen how it performs on the K03. Like the EVOMS, it is slightly more expensive than the TWINtake.
SteveP has written a review:- http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9698.0
An excellent comparitive review by Zboyd: http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=266452
SOURCE:
Direct from Forge Motorsport or their approved stockists. RRP £350.75 incl 15% vat and JKM offer a 10% discount for forum members, so £265+vat.
Visit their website or contact them for an up-to-date price : - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsiinduction.htm
The price may be a little steep for some but I know that Forge have done the best they can to minimise it without compromising the product. If you think that the carbon cannisters are the most costly component of the kit you'd be wrong - The mandrel bent aluminium piping is the most costly part. I think it worth pointing out that, unlike some other intakes, a heatshield is included in the price.
INSTALLATION:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FTwintake_installation.jpg&hash=0d173d44df7cc5586643933797eae93b99b3b7e5)
No fitting instructions were included with mine but there is a very comprehensive well illustrated step-by-step pdf online. It's a pity that increasingly manufacturers assume that everyone has online access wherever and whenever they want. Not printing instructions saves them money but the customer will have to print them.
As with everything I've seen Forge produce, the standard of manufacture is very high. It's the small touches such as supplying all the jubilee clips as stainless which reflect a pride in their work and are very satisfying for the customer. Installation is further made easier by both the orientation of the silver Forge stickers on the cannisters and a small arrow moulded on each end cap which indicates whether inlet or outlet - See under cutaway illustration of the filter and photos below. If you find displaying the two shiny silver labels too blingy for your taste it's very easily resolved: Either remove the stickers completely or, a better option if you ever want to sell it on in the future, simply fit the cans so the labels are hidden.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FStainless.jpg&hash=6bab150c0445b38f07bd51fa23878948c0f357d3)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FTwintake_hose.jpg&hash=84b0cc68349571c8a2c5739160ff8d69461dfcb7)
When fitted, the TWINtake is exceptionally well anchored and simply doesn't need any additional fixings along the length of its pipework. The two metal inlets are bolted down at the front and then it bridges along to being firmly attached at the turbo, so technically it's a free floating unit but a very rigid and strong one. The TWINtake is fitted independently of the engine except to the turbo so isn't adversely effected if you do have any engine movement (engine rocking is guaranteed with stock engine mounts).
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterOrientation.jpg&hash=9dcfb802b02468c3c19c9c22609950363be98cd3)
^ Filter manufacturer's cutaway illustration to show correct orientation of filter.
Forge UK, contrary to Forge USA, initially advised the opposite orientation! To be fair, it is very ambiguous and, to date (early September 2010), tests have shown that reversed orientation is not detrimental to function nor performance in any way. Obviously the filtering ability remains unchanged and any changes to flow will be minimal, likely imperceptible. This is now Forge's official position.
I am expecting to hear from Forge soon about their position and advice regarding those of us, includes me, who have their filters the 'wrong' way around.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterCan_outlet.jpg&hash=07f5a099364b621dbfaac8fcf00ba5775f53dc7e)
^ Note the arrow indicating air suction ^ (you can be forgiven for interpreting the opposite)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterCan_inlet.jpg&hash=f0bdb99a6b054b8891d5aa3fcbae791e8993c8a3)
^ Note the arrow indicating air delivery ^ (you can be forgiven for interpreting the opposite)
PERFORMANCE:
To increase performance is principally why most people buy an aftermarket intake.
Here are the first session plots comparing before and after the installation of the TWINtake, BUT the filters were fitted the wrong way round - This was partly due to someone in ForgeUSA including an ambiguous photo in the installation pdf and partly because JKM followed the usual practice of the smaller end of a cone-shaped filter facing forward (suction end). This has now been corrected but I am including the graphs from both the rolling-road sessions we did. My car, a K03 GTI, stayed on JKM's Dyno-Dynamics rollers the whole time. The graph peaking at 238.3 bhp was with a Carbonio ram intake plus ITG panel filter and the 253.8 bhp was with the TWINtake fitted. Air to Fuel (AFR) plot was flat-lining in both cases as it should do. Revo2 was already set B7 / T5 / F9 for the Carbonio and later adjusted to F8 after the TWINtake runs.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FRR_10Dec09_CarbTwin.jpg&hash=8a65a0e34611470377f4e80bf091085f0c1a3b7e)
On my K03 GTI on the first dyno session day, we saw a healthy increase of 15.5 bhp. So, if the Carbonio adds say 4 bhp (some claim 7 bhp but who knows for certain?) to stock, then the TWINtake theoretically delivers more neddies if compared with oem.
Accepting that any and every rolling-road 'test' of an air intake cannot reproduce what actually happens on the road we can only make relative comparisons. Consequently I decided to have another dyno session but continuing from the previous session by firstly running the TWINtake with its filters and velocity caps still the wrong way round and then directly comparing runs with the filters fitted correctly as designed. The incidental bonus from doing this was that we obtained data from the car in exactly the same state but on two separate days a week apart. Except that on the morning of the second session my car turned out to not be in exactly the same state because it had blown an O-ring and had a very minor boost leak. Ideally I needed to go for at least a 50-mile drive to get everything settled in after this was repaired but this wasn't practical. The resulting dyno curves were 'bumpy' as the ECU dynamically made whatever adjustments it felt were necessary on the fly. Such are the difficulties of closed loop systems as exist in the 2.0T FSI ECU. The highest bhp we saw plotted was 255 bhp but the whole curve reflected much variation.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FRR_16Dec09_Twin.jpg&hash=79f0d0f2f73b433da859d7587a3adc7265023bd9)
So the conclusion at this stage is that the Forge TWINtake gains very similarly to the EVOMS when fitted to a K03 car, namely about +15 bhp. Logically, as the EVOMS has been seen to add about +20 bhp to a K04, one would expect the TWINtake to perform very similarly and hence matching the K04 performance of the ITG intake.
PERFORMANCE UPDATE:
On the same rolling-road at JKM a couple of months later which obviously has given plenty of time for the ECU settle etc - A healthy further increase in power and especially torque. Nice curves as usual and testament to JKM choosing the right Revo settings:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FDyno_20Feb10_Twintake.jpg&hash=90b169b1acbe3aec85b41869b2c3f76c8006acf6)
The latest (June 2011) dyno session at JKM - Everything has now settled in nicely:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FJKM_Dyno_18June2011.jpg&hash=483d71e3f45fdd96ddf87b889ea8ff53bf860337)
October 2012 dyno session at JKM:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2Ffile-10.jpg&hash=028a4ce4366bf012659d2e84a65db1c235d4fc67)
The only other performance mod has been an APR High Pressure Fuel Pump. I am currently running on Revo Stage 2, B7 / T5 / F7.
SOUNDZ:
A stock intake doesn't cause anyone to prick up their ears wondering what those fluttering and whooshing sounds are. I love all those sounds which give the driver the feedback of knowing when things are running as they should be. I hate soft ride caccoons (buy an average saloon car) - When modified the GTI can be both taut and tactile and a practical daily driver and remain the excellent allrounder it is renowned for. On the other hand, most Golf owners frown on excessive air dumping sounds which cause people on the pavements to think that a large bus with air brakes is about to flatten them. There is also a chav association which many Golf owners prefer to distance themselves from. It's interesting that in the U S of A the Golf GTI is inexpensive and bought by lots of youngsters who naturally quite like such exuberance, whereas the British generally tend to be far more reserved.
Sounds will vary according to the individual car. K03 or K04 turbo, aftermarket DV and where it's positioned, bonnet material and soundproofing if any, but I find the air breathing sounds very natural, even frighteningly human! Aftermarket engine mounts will of course transfer even more of the sounds I'm happy to say. I've also driven a K04 turbo'd Ed30 with front mounted DV and TWINtake and found it subtle and very enjoyable.
I haven't heard the ITG yet but I find the EVOMS too raucous and it might irritate me. The TWINtake is just as capable of making noise and does so according to how you use your right foot - Lift your foot suddenly and quickly and you'll hear the usual whipping sounds. Use your foot more progressively and you'll still hear induction sounds but more subtley.
EYE-CANDY:
Oh so subjective! What some love, others hate. Some will say that people rarely see what's under the bonnet and so what it looks like simply doesn't matter one little bit. Even if you're a bloke, your underwear might be something which is rarely seen, but don't you care at all what it looks like? Whereas I agree that function shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of form, my view as a hardwired design professional is that a successful integration of both form and function is the ideal. And guess what - The TWINtake scores well on this integration in my opinion. Although at first I was taken aback by the unfamiliarity of seeing two filter cannisters, their carbonfibre finish quickly won me over.
PLUS POINTS:
- Gains a respectable +15 bhp to a K03 car and so represents good value for money.
- Twin filters adding up to a very large total surface area.
- Sealed dry filters with velocity caps and very little maintenance.
- Mandrel bent aluminium piping in powdercoat finish.
- Proven to be MAF-friendly.
- A good quality heatshield is included and optimises the available area - Each supplied according to your engine code.
- Extremely well made with great attention to detail such as supplying jubilee clips as stainless.
- Solidly fixed and with good fitting instructions.
- Sophisticated sounds: Very audible but not overwhelming or 'chavvy'.
- Unusual but a high eye-candy factor, though such a judgement can be subjective, particularly if you don't like carbonfibre.
MINUS POINTS:
None regarding the TWINtake itself that I can identify at this stage but I will add here if and when I find any*. However, I have to be honest and report that I wasn't impressed about a couple of things from ForgeUK. The first was that the wrong heatshield was supplied in spite of them knowing my build date and engine code. But, on receiving my phone call, Forge interrupted their production to manufacture the correct heatshield the same day and immediately shipped it UPS - That's excellent customer aftersales care. Also the MAF screw threads needed excess powdercoating cleaning out and you may not have appropriate tools if you are installing the TWINtake on your front drive at home. But it should be noted that none of these mistakes diminish what the TWINtake has to offer.
*- Since originally writing this review, there have been reports of "whistling" sounds which have been described as undesirable by those who have reported them. No evidence of such sounds on mine. Forge haven't received any such feedback from customers so far.
*- There have been reports of the Twintake not delivering enough power when combined with Stage 2+ remaps on the K04 turbo'd cars. To be fair, I don't think that the Stage 2+ software was available when Forge were pre-release testing.
MAINTENANCE:
Very minimal and very easy but an absolute pig to undo the Phillips screws attaching the end caps to the filter housings for the first time - They certainly are sealed! I'm advised by JKM to check the filters every 20k miles and they had a fine nozzled air gun which was able to clean them without undoing the end caps. Change plugs and check filters is an easy one to remember. The filters are dry.
THE KNOCK-ON EFFECT:
As you increase the efficiency of your air intake you may reach a point where the AFR (Air to Fuel Ratio) causes running problems which the ECU then protects the engine from by applying fuel cuts. But whilst driving on the road midst an overtake, this doesn't protect you!. The expensive solution is to have an aftermarket fuel pump and appropriate remap for it. The easier way is to reduce your Boost setting but this is probably only possible on Revo software which enables fine tuning Boost/Timing/Fuelling by either the user or agent - An extremely useful feature on any modified car. As it turned out, with JKM's expertise we were able to keep the Boost at 7 but reduced the Fuelling from 9 to 8.
But the above applies to a Stage 2 remapped car with other engine performance modifications. I know that Forge fitted a Twintake to a completely standard Leon Cupra without any subsequent problems or adjustments being needed.
SUMMARY:
Forge wanted to combine a larger surface area of filtering media with the induction of the coolest possible ambient air. The oem frontal ram position just below the bonnet has been shown to be a prime position and also avoids hydrolock from water ingress. The side inlet duct of the TWINtake is pulling air from around the back of the headlight housing from the inner fender well behind the bumper and fender, where the filter of some other air intakes are placed. This is just a location from which to duct cooler ambient air rather than the warmer air from directly within the engine bay. Having sealed filters greatly helps maintain cool temperatures and, whether you like carbonfibre's appearance or not, it has beneficial properties in rejecting ambient heat.
I feel that the dyno runs which we were able to do were unfortunately slightly spoilt by the immediate aftermath of my minor boost leak but that they nevertheless demonstrate a very respectable +15 bhp gain and also some gain in torque.
The next dyno session I have at JKM should further confirm our findings and the whole performance curves should settle back down to the smoothness I am used to seeing. In driving there is a definite power gain which can be felt.
I still don't fully understand how that side inlet collects enough air to make the difference but whatever the physics and theories, it works - It really is that extra supermarket checkout which makes the difference to flow. Regarding buying it, the bottom line is does the TWINtake work well amongst your car's other modifications and does it meet your individual criteria? - My answer is "Most definitely!"
INEVITABLE COMPARISONS:
Unfortunately the only meaningful way to make direct comparisons between the various intakes is to dyno and data log them fitted to only one car and on the same day as there can be so many variables.
ITG have released their Maxogen intake for the 2.0T FSI platform at more or less the same time as Forge have released their TWINtake. However, undoubtedly well as the ITG performs it is more expensive. So it's inevitable that some sort of comparisons will be made and that they will be primarily judged on their performance differences. (Notice that I haven't mentioned foam blocks.. yet!). Friendly competition between manufacturers is healthy - It benefits both the consumer and the developer.
Ultimately we buy what we do for a whole host of very different reasons and I'm not suggesting that the TWINtake is the only nor the best intake solution of all for every car. Hopefully I have provided enough information for you, the reader, to understand how the TWINtake works and its benefits and consequently for you to decide if its the one for you.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FTwintake_enginebay2.jpg&hash=cbd4ecfa8a35d8fca4dc9bbb90179c52ca36ddc2)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FEvoms%2FEngineBay.jpg&hash=6fd1a3bcc0ff7d45863abeb03da9a19fb4210f7c)
I would particularly like to thank Mike@ForgeUSA for information he has provided about how the TWINtake works.
UPDATE @ 100,000 MILES:
Although we (JKM) were able to reduce the Boost setting by a notch on my Revo Stage 2 to compensate for the extra efficiency of the aftermarket Forge Twintake, at about 20,000 miles since fitting, the stock fuel pump sometimes momentarily struggles when pushing on hard. Fortunately it doesn't create any abrupt fuel cuts but I decided to get an APR High Pressure Fuel Pump to better handle requests and return the Revo2 Boost to what it should be.
This is something that anyone buying an efficient aftermarket air intake best be aware of.
-
So y did u break down then robin? Was it due to this or not?
-
fantastic review robin. although it hasnt done my itch to get one any favours :signLOL:
-
Great review RR :happy2:
-
Excellent Robin! :congrats:
The time and effort is appreciated! :happy2:
Maybe I'm a chav then as I love the sound my ITG + Forge DV make! :pomppomp:
-
As always a great read Robin, im glad youve mentioned the knock on effect as this is something im slighly concerned of at the moment,
My car is standard at the moment but have a good deal on for the twintake, if i go through with it will the increase in air cause the ECU to go mental and start giving me fuel cuts?
I guess the quick answer is to get Revo'd so i could have it tailored to accomodate the twintake but cant afford both at the moment!
-
As always a great read Robin, im glad youve mentioned the knock on effect as this is something im slighly concerned of at the moment,
My car is standard at the moment but have a good deal on for the twintake, if i go through with it will the increase in air cause the ECU to go mental and start giving me fuel cuts?
I guess the quick answer is to get Revo'd so i could have it tailored to accomodate the twintake but cant afford both at the moment!
....Thanks, mate :drinking:
It's not guaranteed that your ECU will take protective measures when confronting an increase in air input. It's a possibility and so it's sensible and realistic to be aware of that possibility. Others more expert may be able to post their views on the liklihood and detail.
One thing I'm fairly certain of though is that without a remap the power advantages of an aftermarket high-flow air intake will be kinda wasted.
Slippery slopers will advise that a turbo-back exhaust, a high-flow intake, and a remap, all work hand-in-hand with each other. There are other mods like intercoolers which further add to the 'fun'! Then you'll want better brakes and suspension mods :evilgrin:
-
Excellent Robin! :congrats:
The time and effort is appreciated! :happy2:
Maybe I'm a chav then as I love the sound my ITG + Forge DV make! :pomppomp:
i think i must be a chav too :rolleye: just love the open cone filter noise :evilgrin:
-
Excellent Robin! :congrats:
The time and effort is appreciated! :happy2:
Maybe I'm a chav then as I love the sound my ITG + Forge DV make! :pomppomp:
....Thanks Nath! I enjoy writing reviews.
I'm looking forward to hearing the ITG - Reports suggest it sounds great. It's probably more 'whooshy' than the Twintake because the filter isn't enclosed. But I expect it's more sophisticated sounding than the EVOMS. Bottom line is that it's simply whichever sound floats your boat. :drinking:
-
aha ...
I'm at work so cant see the pictures but can read the text.
superb and very thorough writeup thanks Robin. :happy2:
just the right kind of total LOTS :pomppomp:
would be good to have seen your correction factors before and after.
Remind me going from 9 to 8 on REVO fuel setting is that more or less fuel?
can we have some MAF flow figures please?
like you I'm still confused on the 2 filters is better than 1 but ITG only needs one but gets same power.
still not convinced on the 'lack of bracketry' but if i was buying an intake then this would be 1 of my 2 choices ( :wink:)
another top addition to the product section, top man. :drinking:
(maybe we should create a mk5golfgti handbook and sell for profit :xmassmiley:)
-
Remind me going from 9 to 8 on REVO fuel setting is that more or less fuel?
9 is leaner than 8... :xmassmiley:
-
aha ...
I'm at work so cant see the pictures but can read the text.
superb and very thorough writeup thanks Robin. :happy2:
just the right kind of total LOTS :pomppomp:
would be good to have seen your correction factors before and after.
Remind me going from 9 to 8 on REVO fuel setting is that more or less fuel?
can we have some MAF flow figures please?
like you I'm still confused on the 2 filters is better than 1 but ITG only needs one but gets same power.
still not convinced on the 'lack of bracketry' but if i was buying an intake then this would be 1 of my 2 choices ( :wink:)
another top addition to the product section, top man. :drinking:
(maybe we should create a mk5golfgti handbook and sell for profit :xmassmiley:)
....Cheers, John :drinking:
MAF flow figs would require riding out with the laptop IIRC. We didn't have time but Dom might be happy to when we next meet.
I looks as if what both EVOMS and ITG have achieved with one open filter, Forge have achieved with two enclosed filters. I don't feel that we can judge any one of them as been far better than the other two - All three appear to deliver very similar benefits - On K03 +15 bhp and on K04 +20 bhp - These can only be guide figures.
Personally I don't like the sounds of the EVOMS, I'm not keen on the appearance of the ITG (but I may love its sound the most - I don't know yet), but I like everything about the Twintake.
Re the fixing 'bracketery', I can absolutely assure you that the Twintake is planted very firmly indeed but without being rigid - A bit like sitting on the wing of a car with good suspension, it hardly moves but can move.
-
So does the circa 15 bhp make the car feel any different on the road, if so how??
-
Remind me going from 9 to 8 on REVO fuel setting is that more or less fuel?
9 is leaner than 8... :xmassmiley:
cheers , intuitive with the increased airflow but not having REVO I wouldnt want to quote wrongly :happy2:
-
so as i said above y did u break down? was it due the intake ? :smiley:
-
so as i said above y did u break down? was it due the intake ? :smiley:
....Sorry, Mat (I thought you were joking, as in the sweepstake thread). I didn't break down but asked JKM to check for coolant leaks (I've got a flange leak being attended to by my VW dealer tomorrow) and they discovered a split intercooler seal O-ring. They fitted a new O-ring before going on the rollers.
-
so as i said above y did u break down? was it due the intake ? :smiley:
....Sorry, Mat (I thought you were joking, as in the sweepstake thread). I didn't break down but asked JKM to check for coolant leaks (I've got a flange leak being attended to by my VW dealer tomorrow) and they discovered a split intercooler seal O-ring. They fitted a new O-ring before going on the rollers.
thats all i wanted to know :smiley: thanks mate and thanks for putting the review together :smiley: was good to read but for me its abit too bling and i like the setup i have ie big cold air feed in the fog light and a big open cone evoms kit :evilgrin:
-
^^^^
Have you run a duct up from the foggy panel to the EVOMS, Mat?
-
^^^^
Have you run a duct up from the foggy panel to the EVOMS, Mat?
yes mate
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fphoto-1.jpg&hash=8e213cbc482cfe8561d8f3a4c3cbfa9b10cdf563)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fphoto-2.jpg&hash=1eb05c1381193c7e0bc249bab3d6eeec8e21715f)
u can hear it sucking the air in :evilgrin:
-
^^^^
I might do the same later, Mat. I've sourced a nice carbon inlet which will fit my OSIR carbon fog panels and I'll just run a flexi-hose up to the rear headlight area where the Twintake suctions from but without a sealed attachment.
Not really needed but.. The slippery slope :rolleye:
-
cracking review as ever robin, nice to see the components part installed to get an idea how it comes together, not bad numbers either :happy2: :jumping:
-
I expect Jim @jkm enjoyed you shoving your long lense in there whilst he was trying to fit your intake :grin:
Well youve sold me Robin, and id said i wouldnt ever get into modding the engine much on mine.
To the next round of breakfast mate :wink:
-
Great review Robin :smiley:
I'm tempted, but as I like the sound of my EVOM's and they make similar power, it would be daft. :stupid:
-
Great review Robin :smiley:
I'm tempted, but as I like the sound of my EVOM's and they make similar power, it would be daft. :stupid:
I went from a hybrid Evoms (running a superior filter than the Evoms kit) to the Twintake and genuinely felt an increase in performance..
-
Great review Robin :smiley:
I'm tempted, but as I like the sound of my EVOM's and they make similar power, it would be daft. :stupid:
I went from a hybrid Evoms (running a superior filter than the Evoms kit) to the Twintake and genuinely felt an increase in performance..
Just from the TWINtake? or did you do something else at the same time?
This is one of the few times that I'm uncertain about swapping.
Jonny, I opted for the dry filter, which flows slightly better than the Oiled EVOM's filter anyway. I know you had the biggy filter fitted, but surely to feel a difference between say for example 350bhp and 360bhp is quite hard anyway? :smiley: :xmassmiley: :santa: :xmaspresent: :xmassmiley: :santa: :xmaspresent: :tree: :tree:
-
Great review Robin :smiley:
I'm tempted, but as I like the sound of my EVOM's and they make similar power, it would be daft. :stupid:
I went from a hybrid Evoms (running a superior filter than the Evoms kit) to the Twintake and genuinely felt an increase in performance..
Just from the TWINtake? or did you do something else at the same time?
This is one of the few times that I'm uncertain about swapping.
Jonny, I opted for the dry filter, which flows slightly better than the Oiled EVOM's filter anyway. I know you had the biggy filter fitted, but surely to feel a difference between say for example 350bhp and 360bhp is quite hard anyway? :smiley: :xmassmiley: :santa: :xmaspresent: :xmassmiley: :santa: :xmaspresent: :tree: :tree:
Literally the only change was the Twintake.. I know its hard to believe, but im nothing but impressed with the Forge intake, and it keeps proving itself over and over.. Much to my amusement based on some of the early comments when people saw the prototype on my car :grin:
I wouldn't say it made any difference top end at all to be honest, its was more between 4500 and 6000rpm, just pulled a little harder in the upper mid range.. Certainly a gain though :happy2:
Yeah I think you would feel 10hp :smiley:
-
Great review Robin :smiley:
I'm tempted, but as I like the sound of my EVOM's and they make similar power, it would be daft. :stupid:
I went from a hybrid Evoms (running a superior filter than the Evoms kit) to the Twintake and genuinely felt an increase in performance..
Just from the TWINtake? or did you do something else at the same time?
This is one of the few times that I'm uncertain about swapping.
Jonny, I opted for the dry filter, which flows slightly better than the Oiled EVOM's filter anyway. I know you had the biggy filter fitted, but surely to feel a difference between say for example 350bhp and 360bhp is quite hard anyway? :smiley: :xmassmiley: :santa: :xmaspresent: :xmassmiley: :santa: :xmaspresent: :tree: :tree:
Literally the only change was the Twintake.. I know its hard to believe, but im nothing but impressed with the Forge intake, and it keeps proving itself over and over.. Much to my amusement based on some of the early comments when people saw the prototype on my car :grin:
I wouldn't say it made any difference top end at all to be honest, its was more between 4500 and 6000rpm, just pulled a little harder in the upper mid range.. Certainly a gain though :happy2:
Yeah I think you would feel 10hp :smiley:
Shall I, shan't I :innocent:
-
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO john dont do it it looks :sick: :sick:
-
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO john dont do it it looks :sick: :sick:
^^^^ Proof that each of us have differing ideas about how :sick: or how :drool: something looks or even if it matters. I've always been a bit concerned about having a pleated lampshade under my hood :evilgrin:
Btw, did your airy sounds increase after you added your fog duct from below?
-
yes mate it did as u can hear more air being sucked in / rammed in :evilgrin: its loud but thats how i like this car
-
yes mate it did as u can hear more air being sucked in / rammed in :evilgrin: its loud but thats how i like this car
Funnily enough why I thought of the EVOMS for you. :laugh:
-
Nice one RR, driving mine didn't put you of then :wink:
Catch can position was OK :happy2:
I'm still looking at modifying an oem engine cover to tidy it up a bit under there, and I dont even wear pants :signLOL:
-
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO john dont do it it looks :sick: :sick:
Lol, you don't drive around with your bonnet open do you??
I would stick an intake on which was modeled on Susan Boyles face if it was worth another 5hp!!
-
so would i jonny but it just looks like they have bolted 2 of these on to make it
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CARBON-FIBRE-INDUCTION-KIT-AIR-FILTER-UNIVERSAL-NEW_W0QQitemZ200386758138QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2ea7fb45fa#ht_500wt_956
not my cup of tea :sick:
-
Not for me either, but I fully accept we all have differing tastes, and requirements.
A couple of genuine Q's
what is the reason behind the 2 filter assembly's? Where the 2 airflows meet around the 'Y' piece there must be some turbulent flow there, thus slowing the airflow down?
Are the gains what you expected?
Good review though, and helping others make their mind up is the name of the game.
:happy2:
-
so would i jonny but it just looks like they have bolted 2 of these on to make it
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CARBON-FIBRE-INDUCTION-KIT-AIR-FILTER-UNIVERSAL-NEW_W0QQitemZ200386758138QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2ea7fb45fa#ht_500wt_956
not my cup of tea :sick:
Dont know to be honest, either way, works well, and for me thats what counts! :smiley: Saying that, I appriciate that opinions on aesthetics are a very individual thing.. Just think, someone out there may actually think Susan Boyle is a bit of a fitty :wink:
-
Susan Boyle is a bit of a fitty :wink:
jonny what the f*** dude?
:signLOL:
-
so would i jonny but it just looks like they have bolted 2 of these on to make it
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CARBON-FIBRE-INDUCTION-KIT-AIR-FILTER-UNIVERSAL-NEW_W0QQitemZ200386758138QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2ea7fb45fa#ht_500wt_956
not my cup of tea :sick:
....I totally understand the Twintake is not your cup of tea but I'm wondering if you've read my rather lengthy explanation of how the Twintake works - But no problem, I don't expect everyone to read it. That eBay universal intake is intended for fitting down low near the foglight position and isn't very clever at all! What happens when some unavoidable standing water quickly floods into that low filter cannister?
:happy2:
-
i dont think u have looked at that intake correctly Robin it sits up like yours and you put the air inlet any place u like :smiley: like up in the place yours are :smiley: and i know how it works and i am sure forge say its the best thing ever but for me it just looks like it should cost less/cheap looking and i cant explain why but as u say each to there own and i hope u enjoy it :congrats:
-
A couple of genuine Q's
what is the reason behind the 2 filter assembly's? Where the 2 airflows meet around the 'Y' piece there must be some turbulent flow there, thus slowing the airflow down?
Are the gains what you expected?
Good review though, and helping others make their mind up is the name of the game.
:happy2:
....Cheers Dave :happy2:
I think the answers to your questions about why 2 filter assemblies and airflow at the 'Y' junction are in the review under the headings of "TWO INLETS + TWO FILTERS" and "REDUCING RESTRICTIONS".
Are the gains what I expected? - Yes, pretty much spot on although I always try and keep an open mind.
I've been out driving today again and she feels almost as if I've upgraded the remap. Very strong and useful power when applied to overtaking but I have to watch licence-losing territory.
I'm really enjoying the sound too. It's audible but doesn't compete with the Milltek or the Grrrrr from my engine mounts. I do a lot of music sound editing and mixing in the studio and the mix on my car is well balanced.
-
i dont think u have looked at that intake correctly Robin it sits up like yours and you put the air inlet any place u like :smiley: like up in the place yours are :smiley: and i know how it works and i am sure forge say its the best thing ever but for me it just looks like it should cost less/cheap looking and i cant explain why but as u say each to there own and i hope u enjoy it :congrats:
....Ah, I didn't realise that the linked eBay intake was anything other than what I said. I wonder what gains it would have.
Forge are working on a single filter cannister version which will be cheaper because of it but obviously will offer less gains than the Twintake.
To be fair I haven't seen any evidence of Forge saying that their Twintake is the best intake ever. They acknowledge and respect their competition and have striven to produce the best they can. The Twintake appears to match the gains of both ITG and EVOMS but actually I think it's cheaper.
But absolutely as you, me, stokey, and others say: We each have our own preferences. It's what I made clear in my review by listing the various considerations and not in any order of importance.
-
i would have liked to see the Y pipe made into a narrower Y piece to aid smoother flow...rather than have the 2 pipes curving into the single pipe like it is.
However, the air is not forced into the single pipe, the turbo is sucking in air from 2 sources, and in that sense i suppose is not such a restriction (from my basic understanding of how the air would be flowing in this system)
so having 2 sources to suck air in is better than 1, but like someone has already said, you can only get so much air into the single pipe going into the turbo anyway!
But i do like the noise NeilM's car made with this system on the rollers. Was bonkers! :grin:
-
A couple of genuine Q's
what is the reason behind the 2 filter assembly's? Where the 2 airflows meet around the 'Y' piece there must be some turbulent flow there, thus slowing the airflow down?
Are the gains what you expected?
Good review though, and helping others make their mind up is the name of the game.
:happy2:
....Cheers Dave :happy2:
I think the answers to your questions about why 2 filter assemblies and airflow at the 'Y' junction are in the review under the headings of "TWO INLETS + TWO FILTERS" and "REDUCING RESTRICTIONS".
Are the gains what I expected? - Yes, pretty much spot on although I always try and keep an open mind.
I've been out driving today again and she feels almost as if I've upgraded the remap. Very strong and useful power when applied to overtaking but I have to watch licence-losing territory.
I'm really enjoying the sound too. It's audible but doesn't compete with the Milltek or the Grrrrr from my engine mounts. I do a lot of music sound editing and mixing in the studio and the mix on my car is well balanced.
I had read that. It doesn't really answer my Q.
There is only a certain amount of airflow that the intake pipework can handle, and the velocity of that airflow is entirely dependant on the Turbo's ability to effectively utilise the airflow. Assuming there is an element of 'Ram-air' due to the forward motion of the car.
If you have a Y piece then at the point to two airflows join an area of turbulence will be present, this will effectively stagnate the flow. I am assuming that Forge have tested this.
The extra airflow will however have some element of cooling the whole shebang down.
The angle of incidence of the 2 airflows will have a tremendous effect on the amount of turbulence present. The forge is about 90 degrees between the 2 airflows, this is quite a difference in flow directions.
Interesting.
:smiley:
:happy2:
-
If you have a Y piece then at the point to two airflows join an area of turbulence will be present, this will effectively stagnate the flow.
The angle of incidence of the 2 airflows will have a tremendous effect on the amount of turbulence present. The forge is about 90 degrees between the 2 airflows, this is quite a difference in flow directions.
i would have liked to see the Y pipe made into a narrower Y piece to aid smoother flow...rather than have the 2 pipes curving into the single pipe like it is.
that is exactly what andy@ITG said.
he said the idea is good and potential gains would be due to the large amount of filter surface area, and also the ram air nature of the main filter, but the junction of the two inlets leaves a little to be desired and could have been designed better to aid airflow and reduce turbulance.
basically he said it good design but could be improved.
iirc cRR you are running lower boost than normal to preserve any turbo issues again, so i think yoyu are defiantely in the corect bhp zone for a stage 2 k03
-
There is only a certain amount of airflow that the intake pipework can handle, and the velocity of that airflow is entirely dependant on the Turbo's ability to effectively utilise the airflow. Assuming there is an element of 'Ram-air' due to the forward motion of the car.
If you have a Y piece then at the point to two airflows join an area of turbulence will be present, this will effectively stagnate the flow. I am assuming that Forge have tested this.
The extra airflow will however have some element of cooling the whole shebang down.
The angle of incidence of the 2 airflows will have a tremendous effect on the amount of turbulence present. The forge is about 90 degrees between the 2 airflows, this is quite a difference in flow directions.
Interesting.
:smiley:
:happy2:
....As I understand it, the 70mm piping will only flow a finite volume of air regardless of the number of filters used. Higher flowing air filters, however, provide for a reduction in effort required to draw air through them due to a decrease in flow restriction. A larger surface area through which airflow is introduced, provides for the least possible restriction in flow.
Okay, so just before this less restricted airflow has arrived at the 'Y' junction it passes through a velocity stack - Vanes moulded into the delivery end of the filter's cannister. This also has a bearing on why the Twintake orientates its cone-shaped filters the opposite way to usual practice.
Without having very in-depth discussion with Forge to explain it further, the airflow sucked in at the 'Y' doesn't suffer from stagnating. I'm told by Forge that they have thoroughly tested this and also a version with just the one forward facing filter cannister (which gave less gains).
:happy2:
I'm sorry if I can't be more help in answering your questions at the moment. I may be able to post some answers another day though.
-
There is only a certain amount of airflow that the intake pipework can handle, and the velocity of that airflow is entirely dependant on the Turbo's ability to effectively utilise the airflow. Assuming there is an element of 'Ram-air' due to the forward motion of the car.
If you have a Y piece then at the point to two airflows join an area of turbulence will be present, this will effectively stagnate the flow. I am assuming that Forge have tested this.
The extra airflow will however have some element of cooling the whole shebang down.
The angle of incidence of the 2 airflows will have a tremendous effect on the amount of turbulence present. The forge is about 90 degrees between the 2 airflows, this is quite a difference in flow directions.
Interesting.
:smiley:
:happy2:
....As I understand it, the 70mm piping will only flow a finite volume of air regardless of the number of filters used. Higher flowing air filters, however, provide for a reduction in effort required to draw air through them due to a decrease in flow restriction. A larger surface area through which airflow is introduced, provides for the least possible restriction in flow.
Okay, so just before this less restricted airflow has arrived at the 'Y' junction it passes through a velocity stack - Vanes moulded into the delivery end of the filter's cannister. This also has a bearing on why the Twintake orientates its cone-shaped filters the opposite way to usual practice.
Without having very in-depth discussion with Forge to explain it further, the airflow sucked in at the 'Y' doesn't suffer from stagnating. I'm told by Forge that they have thoroughly tested this and also a version with just the one forward facing filter cannister (which gave less gains).
:happy2:
I'm sorry if I can't be more help in answering your questions at the moment. I may be able to post some answers another day though.
Interesting. Do you have any pics of the velocity stacks? I am interested in understanding why and how things work.
-
So the conclusion at this stage is that the Forge TWINtake gains very similarly to the EVOMS when fitted to a K03 car, namely about +15 bhp. Logically, as the EVOMS has been seen to add about +20 bhp to a K04, one would expect the TWINtake to perform very similarly and hence matching the K04 performance of the ITG intake.
i actually thought the evoms made about 8-12bhp on a k03 from people who have had them and had their car rolling roaded.
look forward to seeing some maf readings etc.(will that increase or decrease with more or less boost??) your fuel trim would be nice to see as well
what settings is your revo on RR for the before and after runs,
your old 245hp dyno plot you had @JKM seemed about right for a stage 2 with oem airbox, but your before dyno plot prior to fitting the twintake seems below what i would expect of a stage 2 K03.
-
Susan Boyle is a bit of a fitty :wink:
jonny what the f*** dude?
:signLOL:
Well.. What can I say.. :wink:
-
Interesting. Do you have any pics of the velocity stacks? I am interested in understanding why and how things work.
....Without dismantling a Twintake filter cannister I don't have any pics. A conventional 'velocity stack' is usually trumpet shaped (as I'm sure you know, Dave, but other readers may not) and straightens and accelerates the airflow and makes 'breathing' easier.
Here is a pic of another different stack vaned cap - The cap is shown unattached and upside down to show the vanes:-
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flib.store.yahoo.net%2Flib%2Ftwincamtech%2F0000bloxfilternvs.jpg&hash=44a9b4393e15162c738a51fee8c659b515ab0878)
As far as I can see, the Twintake has a curved rotary set of open ended vanes (or fixed internal ribbing) moulded into the cannister's cap at the delivery end and consequently enhances airflow characteristics. But, this doesn't necessarily answer your earlier question about the shape angles of the 'Y' junction. If I can find further info I'll post it. I do know that Forge have spent a lot of time designing and testing their TWINtake.
-
i actually thought the evoms made about 8-12bhp on a k03 from people who have had them and had their car rolling roaded.
....JKM have seen up to +15 bhp on a K03 and up to +20 bhp on K04 on the 2.0T FSI platform.
look forward to seeing some maf readings etc.(will that increase or decrease with more or less boost??) your fuel trim would be nice to see as well
what settings is your revo on RR for the before and after runs,
....As previously posted, I'll post such info when known but am reliant on others with appropriately loaded laptop etc.
Revo settings info already posted in the review.
your old 245hp dyno plot you had @JKM seemed about right for a stage 2 with oem airbox, but your before dyno plot prior to fitting the twintake seems below what i would expect of a stage 2 K03.
....Hence why no rolling-road should be entirely relied upon regarding bhp numbers. What you may "expect" and what is aren't necessarily the same. I've never seen 245 plotted anywhere on my K03 GTI while I had a oem airbox - Only with a Carbonio and also anything from 235-245 according to which Revo stage map, its settings, and conditions on the day. Superchips' Maha rollers said I was running 273 bhp on the Carbonio! :stupid: (@ them, not you).
That was the whole point of this Twintake vs Carbonio dyno exercise: To see the relative gain regardless of max bhp numbers.
The result of my totally independent test on a K03 GTI was +15.5 bhp and some torque. I want to dyno my car at JKM again just to see how the plots shape up after a few hundred miles.
-
Thank you Robin.
:happy2:
-
Robin whats GTI backwards - enough said.
-
Robin whats GTI backwards - enough said.
....And your point is?
-
Lol, fan boy.. :wink:
Well, the Twintake will be getting probably its biggest test shortly, as ill be using it on my BSH 3076R turbo.. Wouldn't choose anything else..
-
Ha fan boy, was just a joke, everythings getting rather serious on this forum recently so ill just leave!
-
Ha fan boy, was just a joke, everythings getting rather serious on this forum recently so ill just leave!
It was a joke mate! lol.. Dont be soft :wink:
-
i actually thought that was quite amusing. Not quite as amusing as RR getting the hump there though. banter is good,
-
Great review Robin :happy2:
In JKM's experience on the K03 turbo, the EVOMS offers the greatest power increase of about 15 bhp on the K03 and closer to 20 bhp on the K04. They are somewhat unimpressed by the cheaper BSH.
Interestingly when the BSH was released about a year ago it was the same price as the EVOMS in the US and has only fairly recently gone down in price while the EVOMS has remained the same. What was it that JKM were unimpressed by with the BSH?
-
^^^^
Not sure of the detail, KRL, but Jim made a face and said that he wouldn't rate the BSH as highly as either the EVOMS or VF from those he'd seen IIRC.
Generally JKM tend to prefer to stock products they think are good rather than just on price.
-
....
Thanks to the generosity of GTIjames (or is that jamesGTI?), I now have an EVOMS engine cover. Not fitted yet because it needs repair but looks like it will fit alongside the TWINtake, albeit with minimum clearance of the filter cannister.
Will post pics when completed with carbon centre strip attached as well.
-
Robin now you have driven a fair few miles with the twintake strapped on whats your verdict?
-
Robin now you have driven a fair few miles with the twintake strapped on whats your verdict?
....I'm very happy indeed with it. It suits my requirements from an intake very well.
- It's been in and out 3 times and fits perfectly every time.
- It's still very solidly fixed but not so rigid it could easily suffer breakages. However, it should be noted that I have aftermarket engine mounts (VWR 'Fast Road') and this greatly reduces engine movement.
- When cruising at constantly held throttle it's quiet but the sound is enjoyably exciting on any sudden throttle change but without being raucous or harsh. Sound is of course very subjective - Some people would want more noise and others less.
- The performance gain of around 15 bhp on my K03 is obviously noticeable. My car seems to have more punch in the mid-range and I felt it strongly at Santa Pod once I had grip and was on the last eighth mile. I could have kept on going well over 100 mph.
I haven't found anything to fault it so far. :happy2:
-
robin, so when you fit the cover will the bonnet shut ok? i noticed the intake as you said on sunday is very big and rubbing on the bonnet... :confused:
i would have liked the forge or the evoms but would sway towards the ITG i think. although saying that i cant afford any of those so im getting a BSH trueseal instead! :chicken:
-
robin, so when you fit the cover will the bonnet shut ok? i noticed the intake as you said on sunday is very big and rubbing on the bonnet... :confused:
....I'm a bit confused by your question, Nick. I don't experience any rubbing on mine and I don't know of any cars where the Twintake rubs the bonnet, either here in the UK or the US.
That includes cars which have a steel bonnet plus thick lining, unlike mine.
On Sunday my bonnet was playing up because the catch mechanism had become interfered with by salt etc from the wintery conditions. Since being lubed it's now better than ever, thanks to the generosity of the guy with the lube.
-
robin, so when you fit the cover will the bonnet shut ok? i noticed the intake as you said on sunday is very big and rubbing on the bonnet... :confused:
i would have liked the forge or the evoms but would sway towards the ITG i think. although saying that i cant afford any of those so im getting a BSH trueseal instead! :chicken:
The BSH is a good intake so there is nothing to worry about. The performance is great as well, I've seen up to a 15g/s improvement over the stock engine cover at stage 1. There are some quirks with the dv port you need to be aware of for the installation as it sits extreamly close to the break fluid reservoir and the diameter is the incorrect size for the oem dv setup.
-
sorry robin, i thought you said you had rubbing and problems closing the bonnet because of the fitment of it, must have got the wrong end of the stick maybe when you were resting the evoms cover on there or something.
thanks for the heads up KRL, might have to ask you for some help when it comes! :laugh:
-
....
Confirmation from Forge UK about installing the filters in the correct orientation - Quoted from their PDF installation guide : -
"NOTE: During installation, the filter canisters should be oriented in the reverse to ‘normal’ i.e. the open end of the filter is attached to the respective inlet duct and the pointed end of the filter is attached to the pipework. This is the recommendation from the filter manufacturers themselves, and supposedly aids flow through the canister."
There had been some debate about this from Forge's representatives in USA but this is now settled as the guide states.
-
PERFORMANCE UPDATE:
On the same rolling-road at JKM a couple of months later which obviously has given plenty of time for the ECU to settle etc - A healthy further increase in power and especially torque. Nice curves as usual and testament to JKM choosing the right Revo settings:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FDyno_20Feb10_Twintake.jpg&hash=90b169b1acbe3aec85b41869b2c3f76c8006acf6)
-
Great to see your car performing so well Robin :happy2:
-
Healthy Torque curve Robin. Getting Broader :happy2:
-
V healthy figures!!!
Do you have a fuel pump Robin? You don't IIRC. Also, are you getting fuel cuts, or have JKM altered your settings and turned them down since fitting the Twintake?
-
V healthy figures!!!
Do you have a fuel pump Robin? You don't IIRC. Also, are you getting fuel cuts, or have JKM altered your settings and turned them down since fitting the Twintake?
....Stock fuel pump and I think JKM revised the Fuelling one notch rather than the Boost but I don't remember exactly. All I know and care about is that she's well balanced, driveable, and runs well.
Methinks I gotta keep that torque at the levels it is as I don't want the DSG box of tricks to start throwing its toys out the pram. We knew that the torque wasn't going to plot its true potential on the initial dyno runs.
-
i know of one or 2 dsg boxes gone pop :surprised:
-
V healthy figures!!!
Do you have a fuel pump Robin? You don't IIRC. Also, are you getting fuel cuts, or have JKM altered your settings and turned them down since fitting the Twintake?
....Stock fuel pump and I think JKM revised the Fuelling one notch rather than the Boost but I don't remember exactly. All I know and care about is that she's well balanced, driveable, and runs well.
Methinks I gotta keep that torque at the levels it is as I don't want the DSG box of tricks to start throwing its toys out the pram. We knew that the torque wasn't going to plot its true potential on the initial dyno runs.
Cheers Robin, I was more thinking along the lines of fuel cuts from the strong flow from the Twintake!
-
Cheers Robin, I was more thinking along the lines of fuel cuts from the strong flow from the Twintake!
....Yes, my understanding is that an increase in air from the Twintake could potentially increase the possibility of fuel cuts but there's not even a hint of such problems under any driving conditions. I'm pretty sure it was the Fuelling which JKM changed and I think they did it as a precautionary measure rather than to solve any problem they were seeing.
My Air-Fuel-Ratio plot yesterday was spot on: A flat run all the way across the range.
-
i know of one or 2 dsg boxes gone pop :surprised:
Are you saying matt that these 500 lb ft torque boxes really are made of swiss cheese?
-
very nice robin, good to see it over the 260 mark, and with a nice plateau of power as well. i think your thoughts on putting an intercooler on are sound though. then you'll have that power consitently.
i know you happy with stage 2 map, and dont want to go stage 2+ but what about just using the pump at stage 2. i see chris ellis revo stage 1 vRS equaled your car with nothing but a fuel pump (did he have an intake as well)
-
Hi Sy,
In ignorance, I don't know what advantage an aftermarket fuel pump would offer.
-
the fact that revo reccomend it even at stage 1, and seeing chris ellis results, i think that said it all. imagine his figures if he had a twintake as well.
-
Chris has EVOMS and cat back exhaust.
-
the fact that revo reccomend it even at stage 1, and seeing chris ellis results, i think that said it all. imagine his figures if he had a twintake as well.
....Sorry but that only tells me I would achieve more power (not what I'm seeking) from an aftermarket FP.
-
Hi Sy,
In ignorance, I don't know what advantage an aftermarket fuel pump would offer.
An aftermarket HPFP would allow you to:
- Up your boost
- Richen up your AFR and lower EGTs
- Increase your timing due to more fueling being available
So basically it will allow you to run far more advanced settings if you so wish even at stage 1.
-
i was getting fuel cuts on my KO3, seems to have settles down alot now, still noticable at high revs in 4th 5th gear.
-
i was getting fuel cuts on my KO3, seems to have settles down alot now, still noticable at high revs in 4th 5th gear.
....Fuel cuts on which fuel pump and which intake?
Any kind of fuel cut is not what you want to be having - Very scary if midst a short-window overtake with oncoming traffic.
-
i was getting fuel cuts on my KO3, seems to have settles down alot now, still noticable at high revs in 4th 5th gear.
I suspect that it's something else Joe as at high rpm the stock HPFP can easily supply the requested fuel without dropping the fuel rail pressure.
-
i know of one or 2 dsg boxes gone pop :surprised:
Are you saying matt that these 500 lb ft torque boxes really are made of swiss cheese?
cant say too much fella as it was at a dealer up near me and its a fooked box ie smashed to bits :scared:
-
thats another one then matt. Seems to be happening a fair bit.
Ive heard of one going aswell from my dealership
-
thats another one then matt. Seems to be happening a fair bit.
Ive heard of one going aswell from my dealership
Eh??? Don't like the sound of this :scared:
I've just bought a fuel pump and am all set for fitting and stage 3 :sad1:
Jonnyc tell me something to make me feel better :signLOL:
-
Jonnyc tell me something to make me feel better :signLOL:
Dont know if I can help mate.. I have heard 230hp is the sweet spot.. Seems were all wasting our money.. :sad1:
All I know is that mine ran, and still does, perfectly with over 450hp and 400tq with proper maintenance.. Guess you take the risk, personally I have never heard of one DSG failure which can be directly attributed to excessive torque/power levels..
-
Jonnyc tell me something to make me feel better :signLOL:
Dont know if I can help mate.. I have heard 230hp is the sweet spot.. Seems were all wasting our money.. :sad1:
All I know is that mine ran, and still does, perfectly with over 450hp and 400tq with proper maintenance.. Guess you take the risk, personally I have never heard of one DSG failure which can be directly attributed to excessive torque/power levels..
i do :ashamed:
-
i do :ashamed:
Fancy posting up about it?
-
i do :ashamed:
Fancy posting up about it?
:popcornsoda:
-
As this is a specific product review thread, how about someone starting a new thread to discuss the DSG subject. I am interested in the DSG subject.
-
It being a glorious sunny day today and me not driving my car for over a week, I decided to go for a little cruise around town with my sunshine roof fully open and all the windows down. Posing? What!? Me?.. Nah, never!
Boyo Boy! That Twintake is a tad louder than I expected. I guess people can hear it on the street. Still subtle though.
-
mine is ALOT quieter now with the OEM DV on. it sounded like a scooby with the forge DV on, turbo spool, hissing constantly.
Also boost seems to hold on alot longer than the forge DV so maybe change back if you dont like it robin. :smiley:
-
^^^^
Oh no, I do like it, Joe. I'm running the Forge DV but don't get the constant hissing you describe. Also, if your boost hold has improved with the oem DV it suggests a problem with your Forge DV connection.
Let's make some noise!!!! :evilgrin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FMask.jpg&hash=0c7f6b5539bc31c2b852b6e763496aa0f8338ae1)
-
mine is ALOT quieter now with the OEM DV on. it sounded like a scooby with the forge DV on, turbo spool, hissing constantly.
Also boost seems to hold on alot longer than the forge DV so maybe change back if you dont like it robin. :smiley:
That sounds like a boost leak mate.. No reason for the Forge DV to be any louder when fully recirculating than the stock DV..
-
boost was peaking at 24psi with the forge DV, OEM DV is now peaking at about 22psi, so i doubt id have a leak at that pressure? or could i be missing something?
-
boost was peaking at 24psi with the forge DV, OEM DV is now peaking at about 22psi, so i doubt id have a leak at that pressure? or could i be missing something?
Is your catch can valve fully closed?
-
yups! although i did leave it open the first time i fitted it, but didnt notice any losses in power?
-
....
Added to the first post in the thread:
An excellent comparitive review by Zboyd: http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=266452
Very useful and informative for anyone considering the alternatives.
-
that was a very interesting review. Would have been excellent if he had managed to at least log the differences in MAF etc.
-
It looks very great but actually I'm using a super Bmc Cda.
-
nice link to Z's review , I trust his opinions too :happy2:
-
.
IMPORTANT REVISION:
Added to my original review post:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterOrientation.jpg&hash=9dcfb802b02468c3c19c9c22609950363be98cd3)
^ Filter manufacturer's cutaway illustration to show correct orientation of filter ^
Forge UK, contrary to Forge USA, initially advised the opposite orientation! To be fair, it is very ambiguous and, to date (early September 2010), tests have shown that reversed orientation is not detrimental to function nor performance in any way. Obviously the filtering ability remains unchanged and any changes to flow will be minimal, likely imperceptible. This is now Forge's official position.
I am expecting to hear from Forge soon about their position and advice regarding those of us, includes me, who have their filters the 'wrong' way around.
-
I'm hoping replacement of the filters , as with a few miles on them , they cant just be turned around ......
Nice work on getting to the bottom of this RR :happy2:
guess the filter manufacturer should really add some markings to the filters to avoid the issue
-
I'm hoping replacement of the filters , as with a few miles on them , they cant just be turned around ......
Nice work on getting to the bottom of this RR :happy2:
guess the filter manufacturer should really add some markings to the filters to avoid the issue
....It's not official yet but Forge are thinking of charging for a new pair of filters (with carbonfibre casings, I assume) and then giving a complete refund when they receive your old filters. I'll keep y'all posted - I'm waiting for an email from them.
The markings are already there in the form of the arrows. The problem was interpretation - Even Forge USA and Forge UK were not in agreement before now.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterCan_outlet.jpg&hash=07f5a099364b621dbfaac8fcf00ba5775f53dc7e)
^ This arrow is meant to indicate air going IN towards the MAF. I don't/didn't see it that way myself and neither did Forge UK originally :rolleye:
-
The markings are already there in the form of the arrows. The problem was interpretation - Even Forge USA and Forge UK were not in agreement before now.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterCan_outlet.jpg&hash=07f5a099364b621dbfaac8fcf00ba5775f53dc7e)
^ This arrow is meant to indicate air going IN towards the MAF. I don't/didn't see it that way myself and neither did Forge UK originally :rolleye:
Hmm, ok so how are we supposed to interpret the arrows on the other side of the cannister? :confused:
-
Carnt believe this is still going on, how hard can it be to put a filter on the right way round. It does look rather comical and amatuerish of Forge to say they know this stuff inside and out......well supposed to :rolleye:.
-
^^^^
I agree - Forge have made a right cock-up of this and furthermore have taken far too long to sort the matter out with some definitive answers. However, it's still (in my opinion) an excellent product.
-
Yep excellent product, wonder how much this is gonna cost them considering how many they've sold and how many filters need replacing :scared:
-
they will have liability insurance to cover that no doubt
-
Is anyone running a TwinTake on a standard car with no mods at all?
This part of the review concerns me a little as i want to install the twintake but don’t want to encounter any fuel cuts or confuse the ECU
THE KNOCK-ON EFFECT:
As you increase the efficiency of your air intake you may reach a point where the AFR (Air to Fuel Ratio) causes running problems which the ECU then protects the engine from by applying fuel cuts. But whilst driving on the road midst an overtake, this doesn't protect you!. The expensive solution is to have an aftermarket fuel pump and appropriate remap for it. The easier way is to reduce your Boost setting but this is probably only possible on Revo software which enables fine tuning Boost/Timing/Fuelling by either the user or agent - An extremely useful feature on any modified car. As it turned out, with JKM's expertise we were able to keep the Boost at 7 but reduced the Fuelling from 9 to 8.
Or does the above relate more to a mapped car?
-
Is anyone running a TwinTake on a standard car with no mods at all?
This part of the review concerns me a little as i want to install the twintake but don’t want to encounter any fuel cuts or confuse the ECU
THE KNOCK-ON EFFECT:
As you increase the efficiency of your air intake you may reach a point where the AFR (Air to Fuel Ratio) causes running problems which the ECU then protects the engine from by applying fuel cuts. But whilst driving on the road midst an overtake, this doesn't protect you!. The expensive solution is to have an aftermarket fuel pump and appropriate remap for it. The easier way is to reduce your Boost setting but this is probably only possible on Revo software which enables fine tuning Boost/Timing/Fuelling by either the user or agent - An extremely useful feature on any modified car. As it turned out, with JKM's expertise we were able to keep the Boost at 7 but reduced the Fuelling from 9 to 8.
Or does the above relate more to a mapped car?
....As I understand it, the ECU however it's mapped (standard or aftermarket) will automatically make adjustments to best cater for the demands it is subjected to. I now (today) know that Forge fitted a Twintake to a completely standard Leon Cupra without any subsequent problems. Perhaps I should modify my review accordingly.
My individual car will have needed fuelling adjustment due to being Revo Stage 2 and having other engine performance modifications.
HTH :happy2:
-
Brilliant i was hoping you would reply Robin, ah that makes a bit more sense then that the ECU is adaptive and will "learn" again with the extra amount of air being forced in.
Thanks robin! :happy2:
-
ah that makes a bit more sense then that the ECU is adaptive and will "learn" again with the extra amount of air being forced in.
....I think that it's the Revo Stage2 instructions via the ECU which will be making the demands which then necessitate the fuelling being catered for.
Revo Stage2+ definitely needs an aftermarket fuel pump according to most reports. I'm happy to stay at Revo2.
-
Hey Red
Did you ever get a reply from Forge about the fitting instructions regarding with the twintake?
still running well with yours mate?
-
:popcornsoda:
-
surely any arrow would be pointing in the direction of the air flow.
-
surely any arrow would be pointing in the direction of the air flow.
Minds fine now...and i have marked which way it should be on my car however mine was not installed correctly well according to the forge manual but this awhile ago now and it was a test product too. but yea over all its working fine.
-
Hey Red
Did you ever get a reply from Forge about the fitting instructions regarding with the twintake?
still running well with yours mate?
....Hey :happy2:
Prompted by your post, I've just been speaking to Forge (again!) and apparently the downloadable instructions pdf has been updated.
I several days ago updated/revised my original post in this thread (under "Installation") with both cutaway filter illustration and text.
I'm now waiting for Forge to update everyone concerned who has filters the 'wrong' way around. I want official words either posted directly by Forge UK (HQ) or that I can quote exactly. I keep receiving PM's on the subject too!
I am reassured by Forge by email and in conversation that no harm will come from 'incorrect' filter orientation and no known loss of performance either. I can quote those words if it helps.
Mine's working fine too :happy2:
-
I was getting issues with mine but yea all done and dusted :) let me know when you go stage2+ matey
I'll take alook at the instructions..the one i downloaded had the twintake wrapped.
-
let me know when you go stage2+ matey
....If you're talking to me, I have no intentions of going stage2+. Stage2 is enough for me - I see no point in pushing the performance envelope further as she's a keeper (at least until a RS3 Sportback with S-tronic comes out, and then only subject to..). I like the driveability I've got now.
-
Looked at mine today. The cone that goes to the side panel has the open end with the largest surface area nearest the slam panel......is that right?
-
Looked at mine today. The cone that goes to the side panel has the open end with the largest surface area nearest the slam panel......is that right?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterOrientation.jpg&hash=9dcfb802b02468c3c19c9c22609950363be98cd3)
^ Does this help? The arrows show the direction of air taken in from outside the car and towards the MAF.
Both of the two filters should be orientated the same way.
-
This is the pic i pulled from the instructions today, so i hope this is the right orientation
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftt74%2Fprepree1%2FPastedGraphic.jpg&hash=93c2839ef1b87f9d4ccd6924ddf00ee98d2b95be)
I did the same at the front slam panel also, is that how you have yours RR?
For a £350ish product this kind of takes the pi$$ for something that should be simple, I know either orientation wont cause any harm, lack of performance but still its pretty slack!
Not sure on mine at the moment, love the noise on full chat but when in D mode im not keen on the initial noise either, sounds strange, maybe iv got a loose connection or something, hard to describe the noise but it kind of sounds metallic for a brief moment then goes into suction mode!! Im guessing that isnt right??
-
This is the pic i pulled from the instructions today, so i hope this is the right orientation
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftt74%2Fprepree1%2FPastedGraphic.jpg&hash=93c2839ef1b87f9d4ccd6924ddf00ee98d2b95be)
I did the same at the front slam panel also, is that how you have yours RR?
For a £350ish product this kind of takes the pi$$ for something that should be simple, I know either orientation wont cause any harm, lack of performance but still its pretty slack!
Not sure on mine at the moment, love the noise on full chat but when in D mode im not keen on the initial noise either, sounds strange, maybe iv got a loose connection or something, hard to describe the noise but it kind of sounds metallic for a brief moment then goes into suction mode!! Im guessing that isnt right??
Thats how mine is prepree but its the wrong way round according to the diagram above?????
-
I think your pic shows the "corrected" new orientation. :confused:
-
On the above picture, How do you fit the second air intake metal part to the part of the car above the headlight? I have taken out the screws, but am unsure where to go from here, It looks a bit squashed to push it in between the metal and the plastic top part. (hope that makes sense)
-
On the above picture, How do you fit the second air intake metal part to the part of the car above the headlight? I have taken out the screws, but am unsure where to go from here, It looks a bit squashed to push it in between the metal and the plastic top part. (hope that makes sense)
....I got your PM, Al, sorry I haven't been around to answer.
JKM fitted mine but I was there. It's a tight but not difficult fit.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FHeadlightIntake1.jpg&hash=f3e788c10e3955e92f7a409bda97902be940d2c0)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FHeadlightIntake.jpg&hash=afa60895a1d765c1799237a7696b8f99281e1ae9)
-
This is the pic i pulled from the instructions today, so i hope this is the right orientation
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftt74%2Fprepree1%2FPastedGraphic.jpg&hash=93c2839ef1b87f9d4ccd6924ddf00ee98d2b95be)
I did the same at the front slam panel also, is that how you have yours RR?
For a £350ish product this kind of takes the pi$$ for something that should be simple, I know either orientation wont cause any harm, lack of performance but still its pretty slack!
....Yep, that's what Forge are now unanimously agreeing as the 'correct' filter orientation.
I too am pissed off with Forge - They told me they were sorting out what was going to happen about those of us who followed their original UK instructions and consequently have the 'incorrect' orientation. All they have done is assure me it doesn't matter but no official statement has been made on the forums as promised. I've lost faith in Forge's efficiency as a company - Typically fecking useless English! I haven't lost faith in their products. I'm getting sick of being asked questions by people which they should be answering, or at the very least they should give me something in writing which I can quote.
-
This is the pic i pulled from the instructions today, so i hope this is the right orientation
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftt74%2Fprepree1%2FPastedGraphic.jpg&hash=93c2839ef1b87f9d4ccd6924ddf00ee98d2b95be)
I did the same at the front slam panel also, is that how you have yours RR?
For a £350ish product this kind of takes the pi$$ for something that should be simple, I know either orientation wont cause any harm, lack of performance but still its pretty slack!
....Yep, that's what Forge are now unanimously agreeing as the 'correct' filter orientation.
I too am pissed off with Forge - They told me they were sorting out what was going to happen about those of us who followed their original UK instructions and consequently have the 'incorrect' orientation. All they have done is assure me it doesn't matter but no official statement has been made on the forums as promised. I've lost faith in Forge's efficiency as a company - Typically fecking useless English! I haven't lost faith in their products. I'm getting sick of being asked questions by people which they should be answering, or at the very least they should give me something in writing which I can quote.
Thanks for your reply Robin, yes i totally agree with what you say, especially as after spending countless hours on various forums there was never anything 100% conculusive which is shocking when you consider A, the price B the simplicity of something that should NEVER have been an issue, to say the orientation doesnt matter is a bit of a cop out in my eyes.
I can certainly say your review and posts across the pond will have help loads of people with this though.
-
We apologise for our lack of reply on the forum, which could make us come across as unprofessional, but we have been working hard on this behind the scenes. We will make sure this lack of communication doesn’t happen again. We agree that it seems to be a simple thing to get right, but the filter is the only part of the kit that Forge doesn’t make, and having used the BMC CDA filters before (which definitely DO fit in the ‘reverse’ orientation) we fitted our carbon canisters in the reverse orientation too. Our US office had not used BMC filters before and so fitted them in accordance with how you perceive the filter would be fitted if it weren’t boxed in i.e. with the wide end attached to the inlet pipework. It’s only in the last month that we’ve received the flow diagram from the filter manufacturers and acted upon it.
We’ve conducted many hours of testing on all of the cars that feature our twintakes, and have tried with the filters in both directions, and seen negligible difference in power or power delivery. Of course, the filtration remains unaffected by orientation. If any customer perceives that they have an issue then they should contact us at info@forgemotorsport.co.uk
We can only apologise for any misunderstanding that we may have caused.
-
^^^^
@ Forge UK:
Ah! Thankyou! :drinking:
Thanks for officially allaying people's concerns :happy2:.
It is a great product in my considered opinion and continues to be reliable and to give me aural pleasure as well as smooooth performance.
-
I think....
I'll be getting the Forge Twintercooler and an ITG Maxogen kit shortly!! ;)
Matt
-
^^^^^^^
You only need one! :grin:
Twintake is on my shopping list (when funds allow!) :happy2:
-
^^^ He said Twintercooler and ITG and not TwinTake :P
So my question in all of this confusion for TWINTake owners that have fitted the filters the wrong way around, what's the process for getting these replaced and is Forge fully covering the costs involved in this?
-
^^^ He said Twintercooler and ITG and not TwinTake :P
:signLOL:
Having a blonde day :laugh: :grin:
-
^^^ He said Twintercooler and ITG and not TwinTake :P
So my question in all of this confusion for TWINTake owners that have fitted the filters the wrong way around, what's the process for getting these replaced and is Forge fully covering the costs involved in this?
I would certainly want a new filter
-
^^ I would probably want two :laugh: :laugh:
-
So my question in all of this confusion for TWINTake owners that have fitted the filters the wrong way around, what's the process for getting these replaced and is Forge fully covering the costs involved in this?
^^^^
Answered by Forge UK in Reply #132:
We’ve conducted many hours of testing on all of the cars that feature our twintakes, and have tried with the filters in both directions, and seen negligible difference in power or power delivery. Of course, the filtration remains unaffected by orientation. If any customer perceives that they have an issue then they should contact us at info@forgemotorsport.co.uk
We can only apologise for any misunderstanding that we may have caused.
Mine are the 'incorrect' orientation and I have no issues to date. :happy2:
-
aside from the initial orientation, any owners would then also need to carefully remember which orientation the filters are fitted.
Any subsequent removal (by owner or garage to fit other parts etc) would then need to ensure they are re-fitted that way.
There is potential to refit them differently, with the dirty side then on the filtered engine side.
from what I can see if I was a twintake owner , Id be marking them in some way (based on which ever way Id fitted them)
-
aside from the initial orientation, any owners would then also need to carefully remember which orientation the filters are fitted.
Any subsequent removal (by owner or garage to fit other parts etc) would then need to ensure they are re-fitted that way.
There is potential to refit them differently, with the dirty side then on the filtered engine side.
from what I can see if I was a twintake owner , Id be marking them in some way (based on which ever way Id fitted them)
^^^^ A very important point, John :happy2:
The filter cannister ends are already clearly marked with moulded arrows. All you have to remember is your own interpretation of them: For me, and originally Forge UK but not Forge USA, the arrow very logically indicated the direction of air flow - i.e. arrow points inwards to show that air flows inwards (now officially deemed by Forge worldwide to be the 'incorrect' but non-damaging orientation).
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterCan_inlet.jpg&hash=f0bdb99a6b054b8891d5aa3fcbae791e8993c8a3)
It's now academic but the arrow does beg the question of how else can it indicate anything other than the direction of air flow! Arrow pointing into the filter centre = air flow into the filter centre..... But, no, now it doesn't :rolleye:
This is the arrow moulded on other end:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterCan_outlet.jpg&hash=07f5a099364b621dbfaac8fcf00ba5775f53dc7e)
Hopefully, Forge will have learnt a lesson from all this but it's not helped by there now being as long as 8 weeks delay on Twintake orders. The funny thing is that if I didn't already have a Twintake, I'd still wait for one - I love it! They say that's the definition of 'love': You love someone/something in spite of their faults. So I continue wearing my Forge hat with pride.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRR%2FRR_ForgeCap.jpg&hash=fcafc5ed00cb68cc56815d1b6208f49c1bd01f16)
As with any component when it's removed and re-installed, there is the potential to re-fit incorrectly. It's a matter of either very specifically briefing your mechanic or being present (which I usually am).
-
we have big love back to you as well :happy2:
-
As has been mentioned above if you have been running your filter the wrong way around through no fault of your own, the answer is not to simply just turn it around. You will then be putting the 'dirty' side closest to the turbo and sending all the stuff that was initially filtered out in the previous orientation right through to the turbo and engine.
Me personally i would be fitting new filters, or at least having them cleaned properly. On that note, can the filter element be removed from the housing for cleaning purposes?
-
can the filter element be removed from the housing for cleaning purposes?
Yes, the Forge install pdf tell you what to do.
-
Me personally i would be fitting new filters, or at least having them cleaned properly. On that note, can the filter element be removed from the housing for cleaning purposes?
....They most certainly can. The end caps to the carbonfibre cannisters can be unscrewed to allow removal. :happy2:
-
we have big love back to you as well :happy2:
.... :scared: Should I be worried by this!? :laugh:
-
&feature=related
sounds nice!! :grin:
-
&feature=related
sounds nice!! :grin:
that is a great vid :grin: shame they dont sound like that normally. couldnt believe how quiet it was compared to the evoms and ITG. Tbh, probably the quietest intake ive heard
-
quietist? i had mine fitted yesterday and its pretty loud. at the risk of sounding like a rite pansy does it get quieter or change note after its bedded in abit as ive only done 100 miles with it atm :chicken:
-
When I first heard one on neilM's ed30 I Defo didn't think it was quiet at all! It was bloody loud IMO but made a sound I rather liked.
Wouldn't mind having one fitted actually.
-
When I first heard one on neilM's ed30 I Defo didn't think it was quiet at all! It was bloody loud IMO but made a sound I rather liked.
Wouldn't mind having one fitted actually.
well it might be for sale soon with barley no use at all. i'll let you know
-
it might get quieter after some use...wiv the filters getting some crap on it.
but otherwise tis a shame u dont like the sound it makes.
-
quietist? i had mine fitted yesterday and its pretty loud. at the risk of sounding like a rite pansy does it get quieter or change note after its bedded in abit as ive only done 100 miles with it atm :chicken:
....I've just answered your PM but for everyone else's benefit here is my PM reply:
"Hi Ross,
No I haven't found any noticeable change in the sound my Twintake makes over mileage - I'm not sure offhand how many thousand miles I've done with it - 2 or 3k?
You'll find that most aftermarket 'lollipop-on-a-stick' filters will be much noisier than oem flat panel types and even more noisy when the filter isn't enclosed like Evoms, ITG Maxogen etc. Noise will vary slightly from car to car but basically the pipe works as an amplifier. I like the sound of my Twintake but it's totally down to personal preferences and there's no right or wrong.
How quickly/suddenly you lift your foot off the accelerator will effect the sounds.
HTH :smiley: Robin"
I wonder if wrapping the pipe in soundproofing material would help, but it's unlikely to look very nice and that stuff is always heavy weight.
-
hey thanks for the info. I do like the sound of the twintake and i have to say its a fantastic very well made system and also i have always been a fan of abit of engine/mechanical noise as it adds feel. But also as using the car as a daily driver i think its just a touch on the loud side, though having said that the new non res system i had put on at the same time sounds great. I think i'll give it to the end of the week to see if it grows on me then make my mind up then. sound proofing is anoption but like you say would be a shame to ruin the look of it. maybe even though it may not provide the best power gains maybe something abit more subtle like a carbonio or vwr filter might do the job. And if i do decide to sell i'll pop it up on the for sale section so someone can grab themselves a lets face it brand new twintake for quite abit cheaper :drinking:
-
Dont see how its going to get quiter at all.
-
hey thanks for the info. I do like the sound of the twintake and i have to say its a fantastic very well made system and also i have always been a fan of abit of engine/mechanical noise as it adds feel. But also as using the car as a daily driver i think its just a touch on the loud side, though having said that the new non res system i had put on at the same time sounds great. I think i'll give it to the end of the week to see if it grows on me then make my mind up then. sound proofing is anoption but like you say would be a shame to ruin the look of it. maybe even though it may not provide the best power gains maybe something abit more subtle like a carbonio or vwr filter might do the job. And if i do decide to sell i'll pop it up on the for sale section so someone can grab themselves a lets face it brand new twintake for quite abit cheaper :drinking:
Any updates Ross? If your selling, I'm buying! :laugh:
-
.
Probably said earlier in this thread but intakes don't become quieter over time in my experience and I've never heard anyone else report so. It may be that as you get used to any sound your brain takes it for granted (as long as it remains as it should sound) and switches off your awareness of it. When you first introduce any mod which you can hear, you will focus very intently on every nuance. It's like a new girlfriend! :laugh: - At first you are incredibly attentive.
-
.
Probably said earlier in this thread but intakes don't become quieter over time in my experience and I've never heard anyone else report so. It may be that as you get used to any sound your brain takes it for granted (as long as it remains as it should sound) and switches off your awareness of it. When you first introduce any mod which you can hear, you will focus very intently on every nuance. It's like a new girlfriend! :laugh: - At first you are incredibly attentive.
couldnt put it any better myself robin! :grin: along with using the right foot differently to have it quieter when i dont honestly want the noise and then plantin it and letting off when i do, my brain (if there is one) has begun to tune it out as i am used to it now and have begun to realy quite like it. it's amazing how different it sounds in cold conditions too . so to let others know i think i might hold onto it for a while now but when/if i decide to sell someone on here has already got first dibs (matsu) :happy2: but if that changes nthen it will go in the for sale section
-
Is there still a waiting time for the twintakes?
I was last quoted 8 weeks!
-
No mate. Got mine within a few days recently from Larkspeed. Cheapest place that do them at £312 plus £10 delivery. Bargain :happy2: :xmassmiley:
-
quietist? i had mine fitted yesterday and its pretty loud. at the risk of sounding like a rite pansy does it get quieter or change note after its bedded in abit as ive only done 100 miles with it atm :chicken:
Not saying its quiet, but its the quietest of all the intakes i've heard, including, BSH, Evoms, ITG, Neuspeed etc all of which are open filter intakes. which makes sense anyway. Id actually go for the twintake next time around purely as i want a more stealth motor that doesnt shout about itself so much.
i don't think Intakes get quieter with age, you just get used to the noise and no longer notice it.
-
NO wait .. we have them instock ...if you order on line and use discount code vag10 ..simply add this into the discount code box and we will apply the 10 % discount
-
so how much is that fella?
matsu
-
£376.29 inc VAT ...less 10 % .. please order here
http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=260305&product=FMIND12
-
£376.29 inc VAT
-£37.6
-------------------
£338.69
EDIT: Beaten to it by Forge :grin:
-
Hi guys
Sorry for asking again, like the bigest noob. But i just bought forge twintake for my mk5 2.0 tfsi, gti. So, i like to know which is the right way to turn carbon cans.
Many thanks for answers...
-
pm redrobin, he was one of the main guys involved with trying to inform people of the correct way when it was discovered on his car :happy2:
-
Hi guys
Sorry for asking again, like the bigest noob. But i just bought forge twintake for my mk5 2.0 tfsi, gti. So, i like to know which is the right way to turn carbon cans.
Many thanks for answers...
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterOrientation.jpg&hash=9dcfb802b02468c3c19c9c22609950363be98cd3)
^ Does this help? The arrows show the direction of air taken in from outside the car and towards the MAF.
Both of the two filters should be orientated the same way.
And no need to apologise for asking questions (though I prefer questions posted in the forum rather than getting even more PM's). :happy2:
We're all here to help each other.
-
Hi guys
Sorry for asking again, like the bigest noob. But i just bought forge twintake for my mk5 2.0 tfsi, gti. So, i like to know which is the right way to turn carbon cans.
Many thanks for answers...
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterOrientation.jpg&hash=9dcfb802b02468c3c19c9c22609950363be98cd3)
^ Does this help? The arrows show the direction of air taken in from outside the car and towards the MAF.
Both of the two filters should be orientated the same way.
And no need to apologise for asking questions (though I prefer questions posted in the forum rather than getting even more PM's). :happy2:
We're all here to help each other.
Why the vortex creating fins on the incomming side of the hulster? Wouldn't they make more sense on the outgoing side, where the flow of ait would hit them?? :confused:
-
Why the vortex creating fins on the incomming side of the hulster? Wouldn't they make more sense on the outgoing side, where the flow of air would hit them?? :confused:
....Don't ask, Jake! I had enough of trying to get Forge UK and Forge USA to sort themselves out over this. Mine were installed how Forge later decided was the incorrect way around but they work either way and without any measurable difference in performance... Weird!
The important thing is not to change their orientation once installed and used because any collected debris will then be on the wrong side of the filter.
-
Ok, than i have installed correctly.
Than you guys so much.
Best regards from slovenia...
vallyan
-
^^^^
You're very welcome, vallyan :happy2:
Why not introduce yourself and with photos of your car, in the New Member Intro's section......
-
Robin ..once again thank you ...
-
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterOrientation.jpg&hash=9dcfb802b02468c3c19c9c22609950363be98cd3)
Why the vortex creating fins on the incomming side of the hulster? Wouldn't they make more sense on the outgoing side, where the flow of ait would hit them?? :confused:
For me the Vortex goal ist to improve the air flow by twisting the air into a swirl mouvement which direct the air flow around the bigger air filter cone instead of letting the air going straight and then bump into the small cone and all the rubber seals.
-
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FFilterOrientation.jpg&hash=9dcfb802b02468c3c19c9c22609950363be98cd3)
Why the vortex creating fins on the incomming side of the hulster? Wouldn't they make more sense on the outgoing side, where the flow of ait would hit them?? :confused:
For me the Vortex goal ist to improve the air flow by twisting the air into a swirl mouvement which direct the air flow around the bigger air filter cone instead of letting the air going straight and then bump into the small cone and all the rubber seals.
....Best answered by Forge :smiley:
-
nice one :happy2:
-
Fitting would be as per our intsruction
-
No mate. Got mine within a few days recently from Larkspeed. Cheapest place that do them at £312 plus £10 delivery. Bargain :happy2: :xmassmiley:
Just looked your right that is a bargain.
There is a second hand one on here at the moment that I was interested in but the saving isn't worth it at that price.
Thanks for the link.
-
Currently running a P-Flo but going to change to a twintake in the near future I think which should compliment Revo ST2+ a lot more when done
-
if you order on line from www.forgemotorsport.co.uk and use discount code vag10 you will be able to claim your forum 10 % discount
-
Thanks, will order when I get back from florida in a few weeks :)
-
Ok, one more question abot this :confused:
Is the sound different if i turn them opposite, like shown on picture?
-
no the sound is the same
-
Thank you :happy2:
-
anyone got any clips of the tone these suckers give when on?
im tempted to get one as my 1st mod to the gti. a Good induciotn
-
&feature=related :wink:
-
£384 now at Larkspeed but £335 here:
http://www.dpmperformance.co.uk/forge-motorsport-fmind12b-twintake-induction-system-kitbr-golf-5-gti-edition-30-20t-fsi-1003-p-4896.html
Which is quite good although pissed that I missed out on the £312!
-
Has anyone started a group buy on these? What sort of discount could we get? :laugh:
-
Please be aware that there are no sanctioned group buys of the Twintakes at this time ...any vendors claiming to be doing so havent had it authorised by Forge and as such they have no stock or no orders placed with Forge ...just letting you know as there has been a lot of false GB info posted on other forums lately
-
.
Everyone loves a GB and to save fifty squid or whatever a discount is, but if there's not the opportunity I'd still recommend buying one. If you obviously like it enough to seek a GB, once you've bought one you'll quickly forget what you might have saved from the cost or even how much you paid for it. This applies to most aftermarket mods.
Also, if (unlike me) you're likely to sell it separately when you sell your car then you'll probably sell a Twintake very easily and get a fair price I reckon.
-
Youll have to take me out at the next JnH meet im at Robin. Would like to hear what this sounds like in real life!
-
Youll have to take me out at the next JnH meet im at Robin. Would like to hear what this sounds like in real life!
....I'd be happy to :happy2:. You might have to remind me at the meet.
-
:happy2: Sounds good. Cheers!
-
Boo went to purchase one of these from forge this eve and VAG10 no longer works - thats dog egg! :booty:
-
Boo went to purchase one of these from forge this eve and VAG10 no longer works - thats dog egg! :booty:
Ring them in the morning and say you're on the forum and they should give you the discount...
-
Cheers mate - found another 10% discount code online and have used that, twintake ordered! Just got to try and explain to the wife where the money evaporated too!
If im lucky she might not even notice! :jumping:
-
Cheers mate - found another 10% discount code online and have used that, twintake ordered! Just got to try and explain to the wife where the money evaporated too!
If im lucky she might not even notice! :jumping:
whats the code???
total price inc delivery?
-
Total price was £345 inc delivery and the code that had expired was VAG10 - think the one I used was PUG10 , just google it - one will pop up
Looking forward to fitting it with the magmashield tape ive ordered and see how it looks
-
Not sure who you spoke to but the info is incorrect ... you need to use vag10 ( lower case ) and all should be fine ....any issues please let me know ...and thanks for ordering anyway .....
-
Hi mate, didnt speak to anyone. I tried to input the discount code online @checkout on your site and that was where it said the code had expired.
Not to worry, whats the timescale for delivery? Are these items made to order or do you keep a stock?
Im looking forward to fitting it.
-
Ooo for £345 i am tempted! :laugh:
-
delivery should be around 10 - 14 days
-
Ooo for £345 i am tempted! :laugh:
Still pricey IMO!
-
Ooo for £345 i am tempted! :laugh:
Still pricey IMO!
....Not the cheapest but proven to be one of the best according to most reports.
As I said in my original review post, people choose an airtake based on a variety of their own preferences and reasons. :happy2:
-
17BHP on a standard car !!!
-
Ooo for £345 i am tempted! :laugh:
Still pricey IMO!
How much do u spend on your camera gear??? :wink:
-
Is that aimed at me or rich :signLOL:
-
Ooo for £345 i am tempted! :laugh:
Still pricey IMO!
How much do u spend on your camera gear??? :wink:
Never you mind! :P
-
17BHP on a standard car !!!
15bhp on mine...and boy does it like to rev now!! :happy2:
-
Ooo for £345 i am tempted! :laugh:
Still pricey IMO!
How much do u spend on your camera gear??? :wink:
Never you mind! :P
Even more on scotch eggs
-
Looking forward to fitting it and then perhaps loosing my rolling road cherry :love:
Never had a car tested on one although I have heard its not nice!
:driver:
-
I'm not just saying this because we supply these but the quality of them is fantastic. I'd recommend them and I personally think they are worth the price. We supply other intakes for the GTI & ED30 but if I got one myself I'd fit a twintake :happy2:
-
Thanks :drinking:
-
Mine arrived today! :jumping:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi105%2Fsdfordyce1978%2FMk5%2520GTI%2FCIMG0719.jpg&hash=21371fded624efce4b8ecacfda88097a59e752ce)
Just got to fit it now! Seems pretty straight forward!
Although wasnt expecting the extra aperture to the left of the MAF housing, guess you just cover that with the supplied blank?
-
Lee... the junction pipe for the ko4 is usually round, not rectangular.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kmdtuning.com%2Fimages%2Fuploads%2FForge%2520Motorsports%2Fforge-fmind12%281%29.jpg&hash=98a660df97aa2efa349c117d7493d2dab2cc1fa9)
-
lol i did wonder why it was that small!
ignore me...no idea what it's for then. :grin:
-
Stu.. id get onto forge about that... just make 100% thats the correct pipe for the ko3! :happy2:
-
I will take a pic and see what people think before ringing tomorrow! :rolleye:
-
RR's MAF pipe...doesn't have the bit that you have! :confused:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FMAFhousing.jpg&hash=7856f4ac1c42dc1188adc7269331a247a9453c94)
-
^^^^
Thanks. Lee :happy2: - I was just about to post that mine (for Mk5 GTI K03) doesn't have any 'extension' at all.
Phone Forge: John Withers tomorrow and he'll help you. A Forge guy might answer in this thread anyway.
-
I cant see a huge problem as the blanking cover comes with a seal but here it is
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi105%2Fsdfordyce1978%2FMk5%2520GTI%2FCIMG0723.jpg&hash=61b71f14bcfffcbfa2c454d334f99afa5c235176)
-
^^ That will be OK i would have thought. I wonder why they changed the design.
-
aha! i was right after all...they've just changed the design so they only make one bend for both K03 / K04 cars.
blanking seal for K03. Attach pipe for K04.
Cheaper to do i'd say. :happy2:
-
Yep mate - that was my impression! Going to fit it at the weekend!
-
aha! i was right after all...they've just changed the design so they only make one bend for both K03 / K04 cars.
blanking seal for K03. Attach pipe for K04.
Cheaper to do i'd say. :happy2:
Without trying to provoke anything here, how can that be the case? There's a load more work involved in terms of drilling and welding in the boss on the radius as appose to just bending the steel in tubular form and selling it on in K03 form.
I'd get onto them in the morning to see whats going off.
-
aha! i was right after all...they've just changed the design so they only make one bend for both K03 / K04 cars.
blanking seal for K03. Attach pipe for K04.
Cheaper to do i'd say. :happy2:
Ahh haa... :notworthy: thats the one!
-
Maybe....who knows! Maybe that pipe has other uses for other marques
-
Maybe....who knows! Maybe that pipe has other uses for other marques
....Exactly so, Lee, I think Forge will confirm. :happy2:
They offer the Twintake for all the 2.0T FSI platforms but the engine bays are all different. It makes sense to standardise the design as much as possible to allow for the variations rather than manufacture lots of different pipe versions.
-
True Robin... but i think if i were forking about 350 quid for one of these for a ko3 I wouldn't want a blanking plate, makes it look pants if you ask me.
-
True Robin... but i think if i were forking about 350 quid for one of these for a ko3 I wouldn't want a blanking plate, makes it look pants if you ask me.
....I know what you mean and the one they made for me doesn't have a blanking plate feature. But although beauty is of course in the eye of the beholder, my eyes aren't offended by the plate etc. One thing for sure is that its quality of finish and detail will be superb - Forge are good at that.
The intake which offends my eyes (only aesthetically) is the ITG - Such a mish mash. Excellent performance though.
-
Chugster you are correct sir ...we used the opportunity to have one pipe fit two applications ..all will be fine and fit nicely ...
Thank you for choosing Forge products .Chugster please send me your address and we will send you a nice Forge bottle opener as prize for the correct information and product support
-
Chugster you are correct sir ...we used the opportunity to have one pipe fit two applications ..all will be fine and fit nicely ...
Thank you for choosing Forge products .Chugster please send me your address and we will send you a nice Forge bottle opener as prize for the correct information and product support
Thanks for the offer but already got one off Alex whilst at Autosport, and mug/beanie/keyring from Chris :smiley:
I'll take a couple of your new lanyards tho :wink:
-
Blimey
you got all our stuff ...pm me your address and Ill sort it
Chugster you are correct sir ...we used the opportunity to have one pipe fit two applications ..all will be fine and fit nicely ...
Thank you for choosing Forge products .Chugster please send me your address and we will send you a nice Forge bottle opener as prize for the correct information and product support
Thanks for the offer but already got one off Alex whilst at Autosport, and mug/beanie/keyring from Chris :smiley:
I'll take a couple of your new lanyards tho :wink:
-
PM'd :happy2:
-
in the post ...
-
Managed to fit the Twintake tonight, all went pretty smoothly although I did get a couple of the clamps the wrong way round to begin with. :laugh:
Ive taken the car out for a quick spin - only about 10miles but was enough to get a very good impression. I love the sound it makes with my Forge actuator and adjustable valve set fully open.
Didnt notice a real increase in the speed of the turbo spooling up just yet or an improved throttle response although it did seem to pull harder in 5th. But hey - 10miles!!
How long does it usually take for the ECU to "learn" there is a new intake and therefore more air available?
Very impressed overall - ive added some pics.
Before Pic
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi105%2Fsdfordyce1978%2FMk5%2520GTI%2FCIMG0748.jpg&hash=69f5463526f857061a31ffbec82a61945ed0f27d)
Snugly installed
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi105%2Fsdfordyce1978%2FMk5%2520GTI%2FCIMG0754.jpg&hash=9326b9cc2d466aae9f183fd33c978422f69e00b8)
Another angle -you can see the takeoff blank for the KO4 application
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi105%2Fsdfordyce1978%2FMk5%2520GTI%2FCIMG0811.jpg&hash=1fe420d1a2b4b7c219a8a04c7d685f82b283865d)
Thanks again Forge for supplying such a comprehensive and well fitting kit - love it :driver:
-
Looks good stu. :happy2:
-
Thank you for choosing Forge
-
What's the wrapping on the tubing ?
-
Presumably heat shielding.
-
Yes it's just heat shield tape. Really easy to apply, stuff I used was called Magmashield got it off EBay. Seems pretty decent gear. Anything to try and keep heat down!
-
^^^^
It's a good idea to put reflective gold tape on the underside of the heatshield too:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FTwintakeHeatshield_gold.jpg&hash=39e64ddccc2065f96b06cfe15f4d5feaa3bf054f)
-
^^ nom nom nom... i want! :drool:
-
Would something like this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180580271376) be good for wrapping the intake? Will take a look at Magmashield.
-
Think that would work but its not a sticky backed heatproof tape like the magmashield so might be tricky to secure to the twintake pipework.
-
Self adhesive isn't it?
-
Have my twintake all covered up now looking neat and tidy - big thanks to Al for selling me his cover
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi105%2Fsdfordyce1978%2FMk5%2520GTI%2FCIMG0829.jpg&hash=364521baf138bf186eabc3e4ad1e1b64e10bb576)
-
^^^^
That looks great, Stu :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: - Really suits your car.
-
Cheers, it's down to your review I've got the twintake i am really pleased with it.
Wife isn't too happy as the bank balance has taken a bit of a kicking! :signLOL:
Looking forward to inters now :happy2:
-
StuF
looks great ...thanks again Robin
-
Hi Robin, where did you buy the reflect a gold from?
-
No worries found it at Demon Tweeks.
-
Hi Robin, where did you buy the reflect a gold from?
No worries found it at Demon Tweeks.
....Glad you found some. Mine was a gift - A BIALI mate's leftovers and just enough for my needs. Dunno exactly how much advantage it delivers but every bit helps. Shame I can't see mine unless I get under my car.
-
I just had to *bump this thread again. This is a great review and all the info I was looking for. Thanks... :happy2:
-
I just can say the same :
This is a great review and all the info I was looking for. Thanks... happy2
Anyone here test ITG vs Forge Twintake ?
-
I just can say the same :
This is a great review and all the info I was looking for. Thanks... happy2
Anyone here test ITG vs Forge Twintake ?
I have had both, nothing in terms of performance but I was suprised to see that the ITG was more silent on my DSG car than my twintake!
When we fitted the twintake onto the manual car it sounded quiet compared to when it was fitted on my DSG!
Very strange but true!
-
.
I've added the following info to my original first post so that the info is there before reading as far as 18 pages!
UPDATE @ 100,000 MILES:
Although we (JKM) were able to reduce the Boost setting by a notch on my Revo Stage 2 to compensate for the extra efficiency of the aftermarket Forge Twintake, at about 20,000 miles since fitting, the stock fuel pump sometimes momentarily struggles when pushing on hard. Fortunately it doesn't create any abrupt fuel cuts but I decided to get an APR High Pressure Fuel Pump to better handle requests and return the Revo2 Boost to what it should be.
-
I just had to *bump this thread again. This is a great review and all the info I was looking for. Thanks... :happy2:
....Thank You! :drinking: It gives me pleasure to be able to help others as I'm often helped on this forum. As I'm now an OAP I need all the help I can get!
-
Finally you gave in RR, next thing we see is you fitting a Cupra engine :P
-
GT30 turbo and built engine next robin :innocent:
-
Finally you gave in RR, next thing we see is you fitting a Cupra engine :P
....Not unless the engine I've got blows up!
-
Hey Robin, when are u having the APR pump fitted?
It would be good to hear how you get on with it? :happy2:
-
Hey Jussa :smiley:
APR pump was fitted yesterday. It was free with a rather expensive Cam Follower :grin:
New MAF needed and being fitted next week followed by logging and then dyno-day on 26th May. So a bit too soon to share any meaningful info.
-
Interesting stuff RR. Wonder if that's why TT Shop set my fuel to 5 due to the Twintake effect :happy2:
-
Hey Jussa :smiley:
APR pump was fitted yesterday. It was free with a rather expensive Cam Follower :grin:
New MAF needed and being fitted next week followed by logging and then dyno-day on 26th May. So a bit too soon to share any meaningful info.
Looking forward to seeing these results - shame I can't make JKM this time :sad1:
-
Interesting stuff RR. Wonder if that's why TT Shop set my fuel to 5 due to the Twintake effect :happy2:
....Very likely I expect. Although JKM reduced my Boost rather than Fuel (on Revo2). I'm sure TTshop would tell you why etc if you asked them. :happy2:
-
Hey Jussa :smiley:
APR pump was fitted yesterday. It was free with a rather expensive Cam Follower :grin:
New MAF needed and being fitted next week followed by logging and then dyno-day on 26th May. So a bit too soon to share any meaningful info.
Looking forward to seeing these results - shame I can't make JKM this time :sad1:
....There'll be other times, mate. I'll probably organise one in September or October.
I'm only expecting a return to the highs I've had previously, i.e. 270 bhp give or take a couple of horses, but also a return to smoother plot curves.
-
Hey Jussa :smiley:
APR pump was fitted yesterday. It was free with a rather expensive Cam Follower :grin:
New MAF needed and being fitted next week followed by logging and then dyno-day on 26th May. So a bit too soon to share any meaningful info.
Looking forward to seeing these results - shame I can't make JKM this time :sad1:
....There'll be other times, mate. I'll probably organise one in September or October.
I'm only expecting a return to the highs I've had previously, i.e. 270 bhp give or take a couple of horses, but also a return to smoother plot curves.
Smoothness is the key :happy2: after all, us K03 boys aren't about chasing big figures :grin:
I'll look forward to it - October would be better for the cold Autumn air :wink:
-
Smoothness is the key :happy2: after all, us K03 boys aren't about chasing big figures :grin:
I'll look forward to it - October would be better for the cold Autumn air :wink:
....The air at the moment is particularly cold! Bright and sunny but cold = Perfect for enjoying driving turbo'd cars.
The Autumn date will depend on JKM's availability.
-
Hey Jussa :smiley:
APR pump was fitted yesterday. It was free with a rather expensive Cam Follower :grin:
New MAF needed and being fitted next week followed by logging and then dyno-day on 26th May. So a bit too soon to share any meaningful info.
Thanks Robin, just keep us updated :happy2:
-
Great post OP.
So, if my car is stage 1 remapped and I put a non-OEM filter on (in line with that suggested by the OP) would I see another (approx) 15bhp+ or would I need to do other modifications?
Thanks in advance.
-
So, if my car is stage 1 remapped and I put a non-OEM filter on (in line with that suggested by the OP) would I see another (approx) 15bhp+ or would I need to do other modifications?
....Firstly just to clarify, I'm assuming you mean a non-OEM high flow tubular intake with filter and not a flat panel filter which drops in the OEM air box. I say this because a flat panel will not deliver substantial bhp gains regardless of remap. I have run an ITG flat panel filter on Revo Stage 1.
Regarding your question of 15 bhp+ or not, you don't say whether you are running a K03 or K04 turbo'd car - The K04 will probably deliver more.
A high flow performance exhaust such as a Milltek, BCS, APR, will make the difference to release the power too. Also, Stage 2 gives more than Stage 1. All I can confidently say from direct experience is that the combination of a remap Stage 2, performance exhaust, and Twintake, on a k03 car should deliver 15-20 bhp extra.
-
So, if my car is stage 1 remapped and I put a non-OEM filter on (in line with that suggested by the OP) would I see another (approx) 15bhp+ or would I need to do other modifications?
....Firstly just to clarify, I'm assuming you mean a non-OEM high flow tubular intake with filter and not a flat panel filter which drops in the OEM air box. I say this because a flat panel will not deliver substantial bhp gains regardless of remap. I have run an ITG flat panel filter on Revo Stage 1.
Regarding your question of 15 bhp+ or not, you don't say whether you are running a K03 or K04 turbo'd car - The K04 will probably deliver more.
A high flow performance exhaust such as a Milltek, BCS, APR, will make the difference to release the power too. Also, Stage 2 gives more than Stage 1. All I can confidently say from direct experience is that the combination of a remap Stage 2, performance exhaust, and Twintake, on a k03 car should deliver 15-20 bhp extra.
Thanks Robin - apologies, when referring to non-OEM I was referring to the one you showed in your original post (the twin filter).
My car is a mk5 gti - all standard apart from stage 1 r-tech.
Sounds like I'd need a few more gubbins to extract the power .
Cheers
-
^^^^
If it's any help, I started off with just a Milltek exhaust and gained no more than 4 or 5 bhp. This remained the same when I added a flat panel filter. IIRC, I gained about 20-30 bhp when I remapped Revo Stage 1. Then about another 20 bhp from Stage 2 remap. But when I added the Forge Twintake I gained about 17 bhp further. I'm now running close to 270 bhp but needed an aftermarket high pressure fuel pump (APR) to handle it all better.
It's not difficult to make bigger bhp gains from a K03 car but I prefer driveability, good handling, and less stress for longevity.
-
^^^^
If it's any help, I started off with just a Milltek exhaust and gained no more than 4 or 5 bhp. This remained the same when I added a flat panel filter. IIRC, I gained about 20-30 bhp when I remapped Revo Stage 1. Then about another 20 bhp from Stage 2 remap. But when I added the Forge Twintake I gained about 17 bhp further. I'm now running close to 270 bhp but needed an aftermarket high pressure fuel pump (APR) to handle it all better.
It's not difficult to make bigger bhp gains from a K03 car but I prefer driveability, good handling, and less stress for longevity.
That is helpful - thank you.
Also agree with your last sentance.
-
Just wanted to ask the peeps that have applied the Magma Shield tape on, how much I need to get to be able to cover the relevant tubing?
My Twintake should arrive this week sometime and then installation will begin :)
-
And another question Robin please. Did you ever get an update from Forge as to the orientation of the filters?
-
Just wanted to ask the peeps that have applied the Magma Shield tape on, how much I need to get to be able to cover the relevant tubing?
....I can't help you on that question.
And another question Robin please. Did you ever get an update from Forge as to the orientation of the filters?
....Yes. I revised the original post accordingly and also posted with illustration earlier.
-
^^^^
If it's any help, I started off with just a Milltek exhaust and gained no more than 4 or 5 bhp. This remained the same when I added a flat panel filter. IIRC, I gained about 20-30 bhp when I remapped Revo Stage 1. Then about another 20 bhp from Stage 2 remap. But when I added the Forge Twintake I gained about 17 bhp further. I'm now running close to 270 bhp but needed an aftermarket high pressure fuel pump (APR) to handle it all better.
It's not difficult to make bigger bhp gains from a K03 car but I prefer driveability, good handling, and less stress for longevity.
Great review Robin - Rob at W8 has just got some Autotech pumps in from the USA - he might be able to do you a good deal :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4202
Cheers
Nige
-
I'm now running close to 270 bhp but needed an aftermarket high pressure fuel pump (APR) to handle it all better.
Great review Robin - Rob at W8 has just got some Autotech pumps in from the USA - he might be able to do you a good deal :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4202
Cheers
Nige
....Thanks for the kind thought but I wouldn't want an Autotech pump - Too many bad experiences reported - That's why I bought a brand new APR HPFP and have peace of mind.
-
I'm now running close to 270 bhp but needed an aftermarket high pressure fuel pump (APR) to handle it all better.
Great review Robin - Rob at W8 has just got some Autotech pumps in from the USA - he might be able to do you a good deal :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4202
Cheers
Nige
....Thanks for the kind thought but I wouldn't want an Autotech pump - Too many bad experiences reported - That's why I bought a brand new APR HPFP and have peace of mind.
Hi Robin, how are u finding the APR, and what were your BHP gains?
-
Hi Robin, how are u finding the APR, and what were your BHP gains?
....Air-Fuel plot on the dyno is much flatter and more even, as it should be. The power delivery feels smoother. I'll post the plots in the JKM Dyno-Day thread tomorrow. :happy2:
-
Hi Robin, hope you're well, as you'll probably know, im getting a Twintake fitted at the weekend, can i just ask plse if the fact that there is no engine cover at that point, could it have a detrimental effect on the engine itself, like water flying up when you go through puddles, etc? I can see though that you do have a cover still on yours!! :rolleye:
-
It won't cause a problem in the short term, but many golfs have suffered a problem from water entering the ignition coils (even with standard engine covers in place) so running the car with a missing engine cover, could in theory, make this problem occur quicker - but every component 'under there' should have a degree of water-resistance... including electrical connectors etc
-
cheers for that!! I guess it begs the question now as to how easy it is to modify the engine cover to fit when said Twintake is fitted!!?? :confused:
-
Someone's done a kind of guide on here (more a description of what they've done to their car). Basically involves chopping a few bits off.
-
Hi Robin, hope you're well, as you'll probably know, im getting a Twintake fitted at the weekend, can i just ask plse if the fact that there is no engine cover at that point, could it have a detrimental effect on the engine itself, like water flying up when you go through puddles, etc? I can see though that you do have a cover still on yours!! :rolleye:
....Not having an engine cover isn't a high risk to the engine but water etc does get splashed through and so I think it's a better practice to have an engine cover. Race cars don't bother with a cover (or wheel arch liners and so on) but their engines are taken apart and so on far more often than on a road car.
-
Hi Robin, hope you're well, as you'll probably know, im getting a Twintake fitted at the weekend, can i just ask plse if the fact that there is no engine cover at that point, could it have a detrimental effect on the engine itself, like water flying up when you go through puddles, etc? I can see though that you do have a cover still on yours!! :rolleye:
....Not having an engine cover isn't a high risk to the engine but water etc does get splashed through and so I think it's a better practice to have an engine cover. Race cars don't bother with a cover (or wheel arch liners and so on) but their engines are taken apart and so on far more often than on a road car.
A mechanic once told me that the only reason you run a modified cover when using a intake is to protect the coils, so theoretically so long as you keep them really well greased up then everything should be fine.
-
I fitted my Forge twin take air filters on Sunday last. The installation went well, except for removal of the clip at the turbo inlet pipe and the 24mm rubber screws for the heat shield to be installed. Driving around is so much nicer (partly because I did the fuel line mod at the same time - so no more rattles!), throttle response is much smoother and power delivery better! I am getting used to the noise, although initially I did feel it a little intrusive!
My mpg has gone up by at least 4-5 mpg which is an added bonus! The driving experience is so much nicer, I would definitely recommend this to anyone thinking of getting an upgraded air intake kit!
-
Driving around is so much nicer (partly because I did the fuel line mod at the same time - so no more rattles!), throttle response is much smoother and power delivery better! I am getting used to the noise, although initially I did feel it a little intrusive!
....What's the fuel line mod, please?
-
Sorry the fuel line rattle DIY as seen here:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18277
-
Interesting maybe this is the source of my annoying metallic rattling sound I've had for a while. I'll have a look over weekend.
-
Interesting maybe this is the source of my annoying metallic rattling sound I've had for a while. I'll have a look over weekend.
The rattle initially sounds like it is coming from somewhere behind the dashboard but if you listen closely it's coming from under the floor. Mine was also worse at idle, sitting at a traffic light for example. If you accelerate even a little bit the rattle was gone. The mod took about 10mins and I didn't even jack the car up! I just stuffed loads of bubble wrap in there! Suprisingly my car already had rubber moulded clips to keep the lines from rattling but clearly they were not working! The rattle has completely disappeared now!
-
That fuel line rattle had me going crazy for weeks, found it in the end :notworthy:
-
Went to GTi International today and bought a Forge Twintake for a price alot cheaper than any where else :jumpmove:
Will be delivered this week :happy2:
Car is standard at the moment but looking to go to stage 1 very soon.
-
^^^^
Were Forge at Inters this year?
-
^^^^
Were Forge at Inters this year?
Yes mate, more than happy with the price!
-
I have noticed that in my instructions for my twintake the install picture shows the pipework wrapped in what look likes exhaust wrap.
Do my pipes need wrapping? If so any recommendations on suitable material.
-
I have noticed that in my instructions for my twintake the install picture shows the pipework wrapped in what look likes exhaust wrap.
Do my pipes need wrapping? If so any recommendations on suitable material.
....No, they don't need wrapping. IIRC, the Forge representative in the USA has wrapped his and I expect that Forge have used his photos without taking enough care to check them out for being possibly misleading. I'm sorry to say that Forge are poor when it comes to installation instructions etc - As I experienced with the filter cannisters being instructed to fit the wrong way around! < See earlier in this thread.
Is the install pic you have online? - I'd like to see it with a view to suggesting to Forge that they correct it.
Their product is excellent though.
-
I have noticed that in my instructions for my twintake the install picture shows the pipework wrapped in what look likes exhaust wrap.
Do my pipes need wrapping? If so any recommendations on suitable material.
....No, they don't need wrapping. IIRC, the Forge representative in the USA has wrapped his and I expect that Forge have used his photos without taking enough care to check them out for being possibly misleading. I'm sorry to say that Forge are poor when it comes to installation instructions etc - As I experienced with the filter cannisters being instructed to fit the wrong way around! < See earlier in this thread.
Is the install pic you have online? - I'd like to see it with a view to suggesting to Forge that they correct it.
Their product is excellent though.
Here is the link in PDF:
http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/media/IND12%20twintake.pdf
-
without reading 21 pages... was there an answer to which way round the filters should be? Should it be as the cutaway diagram you showed?
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/Mods/TWINtake/FilterOrientation.jpg (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/Mods/TWINtake/FilterOrientation.jpg)
-
^^^^
Yes, as the cutaway illustration. That assumes that the previous owner had them fitted this way around. You don't want to reverse their orientation because of the debris collected then being on the engine side.
-
Tbh,it isn't that load..had mine fitted today & I can hear a whoosh sound at high revs..
-
Tbh,it isn't that load..had mine fitted today & I can hear a whoosh sound at high revs..
I also get a whistling noise when accelerating hard, I just wondered if I have a leak somewhere or is this normal. Car is pulling fine and mpg has gone up so not convinced there is a leak anywhere (replaced DV a few weeks ago with the 'G' version.
-
I had mine fitted a few weeks ago, it tends to whistle when i'm at biting point, midway between changing gears, i did at first think, oh sh*t, there must be a leak somewhere, but i think this is just the particular sound it makes!!
-
That's good news mine makes the same noise where you describe it.
I did have fun connecting the hose nearest the turbo but managed to sort it in the end.
-
That's good news mine makes the same noise where you describe it.
I did have fun connecting the hose nearest the turbo but managed to sort it in the end.
The whoosh or the whistle sound mate?
-
I get the whoosh noise when changing gears as i give it some right foot, whereas i get the whistle when going at low speeds, like at biting point before i give it some right foot, if that makes sense!>
-
^^^^
I don't hear any 'whistling' (DSG and K03 and also a Forge DV). I hear plenty of other sounds but no 'whistling'.
-
oh right, so you don't hear a whistling noise at all, in any gear, or the build up to any gear, could this be a 'manual only' trait???
-
oh right, so you don't hear a whistling noise at all, in any gear, or the build up to any gear, could this be a 'manual only' trait???
....That's right, no whistling at all. I would enjoy a gentle whistle if I had one.
The nearest sound I hear is some delicious gear whines in certain circumstances. This is due to sound transfer by having a full set of VWR engine mounts.
I may speak to Forge this afternoon about the whistling and report back here.
-
Cheers RR, plse do, you're right though, it does make some lovely sounds, well i think so anyway, but if there is a chance that it's not operating to its best ability, due to some whistle (leak perhaps), would certainly be a concern... :confused:
-
^^^^
Okay, will do - Job #432 on my list! After I've watched 'Neighbours'.
I may be wrong but I think that if there was a leak somewhere in the Twintake system, you would feel it via a difference in performance. A boost gauge is very useful in these circumstances.
-
Cheers. Albeit that my GTi is a 2005 model, when it was on the RR with R Tech a few weeks back (after my Twintake was fitted and full BCS Powervalve exhaust with sportscat), it only made 210 bhp and c.250 lbs torque (stock map), although that could be down to various reasons!!?? :confused:
-
Cheers. Albeit that my GTi is a 2005 model, when it was on the RR with R Tech a few weeks back (after my Twintake was fitted and full BCS Powervalve exhaust with sportscat), it only made 210 bhp and c.250 lbs torque (stock map), although that could be down to various reasons!!?? :confused:
whats wrong with that? your car is standard in terms of a map so all your relying on is the stock ecu to adjust slightly. Its only when mapped that your going to benefit.
I had fuel pump, intake, turbo back exhaust and i made 28bhp more, that's after driving it like that for 100 or so miles.
Plus you have the all the RR tolerances to take into account.
-
^^^^
As edd says, you not only need a remap but also a high-flow TBE exhaust system to see/feel any power/torque benefit gains from adding an aftermarket high-flow tubular air intake such as a Twintake. I hoped I had made that clear in my first post - If not, I'll revise it.
On the whistling subject queries, still no-one picks up the phone at Forge all afternoon. I'll keep on trying.... :popcornsoda:
-
No worries RR, u were clear alright! I guess that I had only 1 missing like, ie the remap (the driving force pardon the pun), as my full BCS TBE was already fitted by then. I guess I was just a tad disappointed that well over a grand had produced only 13 bhp over stock, yet a fifth of that a mere fifth of that was the main gainer, lol! I maybe shud have considered the fact that only after ALL 3 mods wud any real results b felt!? Maybe I shud have had it on RR with everything stock beforehand, c if I got the alleged 197 bhp, bearing in mind my GTi is 7 yrs old!?
-
.
Mine is 7 yrs old too, and still going strong :happy2:
-
Mine has only done 45k miles, lol! Wat were yr last RR figures then Robin, if u dont mind me asking??
-
Mine has only done 45k miles, lol! Wat were yr last RR figures then Robin, if u dont mind me asking??
....No prob you asking at all :happy2:
At JKM 26th May: 252 bhp / 300 ft lb but it was a poor day for dyno conditions. But healthy smooth curves plotted (as usual).
My previous best has been 269 bhp. Rolling-roads are a bit of a lottery. She drives fine and that's what matters to me.
-
Yeap, roughly same as the figures I got too! My small fan is broken, so having that and the thermostat, etc changed next wk, then the N75 (Nick suggested that), the plugs, then go bak to them in a few wks, see if theres any difference!?
-
last night I heard a howling sound too from the Intake..anybody else get this??
-
Was it Midnight?
-
Was it Midnight?
Yeah mate,at 12ish..I thought it was a wolf :smiley:
-
last night I heard a howling sound too from the Intake..anybody else get this??
Well finally have one of these myself. A mere 14 months in waiting. I installed it tonight, i'm having that constantly between 3500 - 4100rpm.
Whats causing it? How do you we get rid of it?
-
.
I have now been regularly phoning Forge for 24 hrs and they still don't answer their phone!! :fighting:
Forge staff are a nice bunch of people and their products good and beautifully manufactured, but sometimes they just behave like a typical old-fashioned inefficient British company of the sort that are lucky to survive. No wonder much of British industry is uncompetitive.
I may have to email them, but if they can only field emails, why publicise their phone number? [/rant]
-
I'll be honest and say that i actually quite like this 'whistling' noise, amongst others, but if this is a noise that suggests something is not quite right, then yes, it's something that needs to be addressed!? I shall look forward to the outcome...
Andrew
-
.
I have now been regularly phoning Forge for 24 hrs and they still don't answer their phone!! :fighting:
Forge staff are a nice bunch of people and their products good and beautifully manufactured, but sometimes they just behave like a typical old-fashioned inefficient British company of the sort that are lucky to survive. No wonder much of British industry is uncompetitive.
I may have to email them, but if they can only field emails, why publicise their phone number? [/rant]
funny... i phoned that number you gave me the other day and they answered right away and were very helpful.. maybe they have you on caller ID now??? :P :happy2:
-
I think the whistling noise is purely down to the mass of air moving through the pipework - think of blowing through a straw, sometimes that whistles...
My twintake does it too, as does the youtube example where the camera is mounted to the Golf's grille..
-
Mine does it to. Not sure what revs its starts at but its under hard acceleration :evilgrin:
-
.
I haven't noticed if I've got the 'whistling' sound but I have a 470-mile drive on Monday so I'll focus on it then.
This vid showcases the sound very well, especially at around 1:30 but it's interesting that the guy finds it "rather cool":
I think it's simply down to the individual car's package of modifications and the inevitable harmonics. Folks have every right to complain or not want to hear it, but we each enjoy different things and sounds, as we do in our musical tastes.
-
That noise would get on my tits.... :-/
-
Can i add at this point that whilst it's been documented that i too have a whistle every now and again with my Twintake, i do not get THIS kind of high-pitched whistle. When i plant my right foot, i hear ONLY a spool up and my exhaust coming to life! Yes, this would very much get on my t*ts too!! My whistle (much quieter than this) only happens at low revs and at low speeds...
-
Can i add at this point that whilst it's been documented that i too have a whistle every now and again with my Twintake, i do not get THIS kind of high-pitched whistle. When i plant my right foot, i hear ONLY a spool up and my exhaust coming to life! Yes, this would very much get on my t*ts too!! My whistle (much quieter than this) only happens at low revs and at low speeds...
Ah.. I'll remove you from the list then.
Turbo whistle and sucking and whooshing is fine and is expected.
-
Mine whistles :happy2:
-
I have the Forge Twintake on my TFSI Sport too! However I decided to block off the side intake and only use the main intake...
The Twintake has been on my car for about 50k now? The front Intake was dirty however the side intake was virtually untouched! (clean?)
Made a 3" Block of Cap and see how it goes? Its very quiet in comparison and the performance is more or less the same.
I only started this change this week, I was running the Spacer (removed) and the Full Twintake system (only 1 Intake) but right now the cabin is more or less quiet! All you can hear now is the Exhaust note.
You could call this...poor man's Wintake hehe!
-
I have the Forge Twintake on my TFSI Sport too! However I decided to block off the side intake and only use the main intake...
The Twintake has been on my car for about 50k now? The front Intake was dirty however the side intake was virtually untouched! (clean?)
Made a 3" Block of Cap and see how it goes? Its very quiet in comparison and the performance is more or less the same.
I only started this change this week, I was running the Spacer (removed) and the Full Twintake system (only 1 Intake) but right now the cabin is more or less quiet! All you can hear now is the Exhaust note.
You could call this...poor man's Wintake hehe!
Id call that a rich mans wintake lol
-
I have the Forge Twintake on my TFSI Sport too! However I decided to block off the side intake and only use the main intake...
The Twintake has been on my car for about 50k now? The front Intake was dirty however the side intake was virtually untouched! (clean?)
Made a 3" Block of Cap and see how it goes? Its very quiet in comparison and the performance is more or less the same.
I only started this change this week, I was running the Spacer (removed) and the Full Twintake system (only 1 Intake) but right now the cabin is more or less quiet! All you can hear now is the Exhaust note.
You could call this...poor man's Wintake hehe!
....That's normal for the front filter of the Twintake to collect more debris than the side filter.
You say that "the performance is more or less the same" with only the one (front) filter but how have you measured that performance difference? - Forge found that a single filter version of their Twintake delivered less performance gains.
-
Robin, I don't have any Real Data to show you
I went by the "Feel" of the car and how it was performing? Don't have much to report back but it is quieter!
Sorry for the vague answers but just wanted to share what I have done with the Twintake system.
If it doesn't work out well then I'll revert it back to normal.
-
^^^^
Interesting.... Thanks for sharing the information :happy2:
My guesstimate is that when running on only the front filter, the Twintake probably delivers about 5-10 bhp less on maximum output (depending on the individual car's other mods) - Not enough to notice much difference on the road. I emphasise that is a guess.
I don't expect that any harm is being done by blocking off the side intake but I do wonder how the air is affected in the pipes where they join - I'm thinking about pressures.
-
I get the high pitched sound too. First time I heard it I thought my turbo was about to explode, only comes on at hard acceleration (75% throttle) and is fairly short lived. In reality it sounds like a screeching of a tyre on tarmac! Certainly scares most of the pedestrians :grin:
-
Well After replacing all the hose clamps it made no difference. So Gave up removed and sold.
I did however install it in a another AXX equipped car. No funny whistle sound to speak off. Dammit.
Oh well. Such is life.
-
Well After replacing all the hose clamps it made no difference. So Gave up removed and sold.
I did however install it in a another AXX equipped car. No funny whistle sound to speak off. Dammit.
Oh well. Such is life.
And there in lies my hope... it does it on some KO3 cars and not others so I'm hoping there is something that can be done to fix the whistle
-
I wonder if this is an ITG trait as I have an ITG intake for my TSi Octy vRS and that has the annoying whistle sometimes. Initially I thought I had done something as it only started doing it after fitting an S3 cooler. But even reverting to standard and fitting neuspeed turbo discharge and intercooler pipes, along with refitting the S3 cooler didn't stop it.
-
.
I drove 530 miles today and at no time did I hear the infamous 'whistle' from my Twintake (on K03).
I hear plenty of the 'whipping' sound whenever I lift my right foot but no 'whistle'.
-
I hear plenty of the 'whipping' sound whenever I lift my right foot but no 'whistle'.
By any chance was your passenger clad in leather gear?? :laugh:
-
I hear plenty of the 'whipping' sound whenever I lift my right foot but no 'whistle'.
By any chance was your passenger clad in leather gear?? :laugh:
.... :laugh: - How did you know!? In fact she was wearing a short soft leather jacket.
-
Something i have noticed going from stock to twintake and back.
My car would sometimes spike to 20psi (stage 1 APR), i could not get the car to boost consistently. All over the show.
Now i'm on stock intake again, i never see more then 16psi other then 6th, sometimes gets to 18psi. Running APR boost tap with PCV block off.
-
Took mine apart just now to have a look....and the filters are wrong way round!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fchungsteruk888%2FRoc_R%2Fec07e94a.jpg&hash=0386c1aee78267d3cbd1141218be438718b1ef8b)
The inside of the filter is where the air has been coming in which is contrary to how most open cone induction kits operate (which this basically is but with a carbon canister housing)
So I'll be ordering 2 new filters then!
-
I thought that was the correct way, I.e opposite to the normal way?
-
Well RR got clarification that airflow should be like this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fchungsteruk888%2FRoc_R%2F921b9fe1.jpg&hash=ffce5b6581b3a13ce3e66b4106359e2bf7a307f6)
But on mine air is going thru the inside of the cone filter, so in total opposite of the flow diagram above
Somehow still works and performs tho. Side filter doesn't really do much judging by how clean it looked
-
Ta. For some reason I thought it was confirmed the other way round. But I have been
distracted watching the ladies beach volleyball :drool: :grin:
-
Czech vs Austria ?? Quite good wasn't it :signLOL:
-
That was the one :happy2:
-
Czech vs Austria ?? Quite good wasn't it :signLOL:
Yes I enjoyed that one. :party:
-
Getting back to more important matters, lol, does the incorrect orientation affect performance, etc in any way, shape or form??
-
Getting back to more important matters, lol, does the incorrect orientation affect performance, etc in any way, shape or form??
When Robin's car was dynoed there were minimal differences with regard to filter orientation.
-
Well RR got clarification that airflow should be like this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fchungsteruk888%2FRoc_R%2F921b9fe1.jpg&hash=ffce5b6581b3a13ce3e66b4106359e2bf7a307f6)
But on mine air is going thru the inside of the cone filter, so in total opposite of the flow diagram above
....The orientation was discussed earlier in this thread and I also corrected my original first post accordingly. It should be as the diagram and as 'conventional' to cone filters.
Performance is not significantly effected by filters being orientated the wrong way around according to both Forge and my JKM dyno runs.
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT NOT TO CORRECT YOUR FILTER ORIENTATION ONCE DEBRIS HAS BEEN COLLECTED - APPLY TO FORGE FOR REPLACEMENT DUE TO THEIR ERROR IN EARLY INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS.
Somehow still works and performs tho. Side filter doesn't really do much judging by how clean it looked
....I'm not sure that the relative lack of debris in the side filter means that negligable air is being taken in. Certainly the volume of air will be less due to position but I suggest that perhaps more of the debris flies past, but I'm just thinking aloud about this aspect.
-
Got it fitted on mine and really happy. Good noise and tad extra performance
-
Got it fitted on mine and really happy. Good noise and tad extra performance
....What other performance mods do you have? :happy2:
-
only a remap but thinking of fitting an exhaust and ARBs.
-
^^^^
The remap will definitely release more power when combined with an intake like the Forge Twintake and high-flow performance exhaust.
-
Thanks for the K04 update on stage 2+ issue Robin :happy2:
-
Thanks for the K04 update on stage 2+ issue Robin :happy2:
.... :happy2: Let no-one say that my enthusiastic reviews of products aren't as objective as I can make them.
If more detailed info about this issue comes to light, I will further revise it.
-
We have with my LO4XX build hit the wall with the Twintake which gives us max 300g/s of airflow which roughly is 375bhp, so we have decided to try the ITG before making a custom 3" MAFless intake.
I have to say that for the use up to Stage 2+ on the K04 this have been an excellent intake, performance and looks wise, it only falls short when lots of air is needed :sad1:
-
I was going for the Itg " but are they not quite noticeable with the sound, that's the only reason I went for the Forge.
Noise wise on the Forge ,
it sounds like a slight whooshing noise from under the dash on passenger side, with the odd flutter when cold.
-
^^^^
Noise-wise on the Forge Twintake, I find that sound responds to how I use the throttle. I get maximum 'flutter' only when I lift throttle suddenly. Breathing sounds are unintrusive but I can constantly hear my engine/exhaust, so it may be slightly masked.
-
Your right there" I only get the flutter when I lift of the pedal but mainly when its cold. But tbh I find my car very quiet to say I have the downpipe and 100 cel cat.
But engine wise everything else is stock.
-
Found this earlier after having the Twintake removed to allow a cam follower check.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F12%2F12%2F15%2Fe5e5aguz.jpg&hash=8c0195940b4c3df7d38c490c9fecbb670b932012)
The hose clamp on the little hose that is hidden from view by the top canister has managed to grind a hole in the Twintake pipe work. Not impressed as system was fitted by Forge themselves in 2010.
I would advise all those with this kit on the older TFSI engine to check the hose clamp is facing the right way and has enough clearance from the pipe so not to end up like mine!
Thanks to Alex at AKS though for doing quick repair job on it.
-
Found this earlier after having the Twintake removed to allow a cam follower check.
The hose clamp on the little hose that is hidden from view by the top canister has managed to grind a hole in the Twintake pipe work. Not impressed as system was fitted by Forge themselves in 2010.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F12%2F12%2F15%2Fe5e5aguz.jpg&hash=8c0195940b4c3df7d38c490c9fecbb670b932012)
I would advise all those with this kit on the older TFSI engine to check the hose clamp is facing the right way and has enough clearance from the pipe so not to end up like mine!
.... :scared: Oops! That's not nice!
I'm not quite understanding the exact location on my Mk5 GTI:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FTwintake_installation.jpg&hash=0d173d44df7cc5586643933797eae93b99b3b7e5)
-
RR
It's the hose underneath the one that goes from your PCV canister bottom right to PCZ plate.
You have a silicon hose for the 90 degree bend on your intake pipe - Mine's a hard pipe.
Anyway just had email back from Forge to say replacement being sent out Mondy :happy2:
Alex used his welding skills to cover up the hole in the meantime. Worry is where the metal bits have gone obviously (into turbo I guess)
Maybe that's why along with misfire it didn't do 300bhp at JKM :sad1:
-
Forge had the car in 2010 to test the Twintake / TwinCooler on my car. They decided to use a hard pipe with 90 degree bend as opposed to earlier versions using a 90 degree silicone pipe.
-
RR
It's the hose underneath the one that goes from your PCV canister bottom right to PCZ plate.
You have a silicon hose for the 90 degree bend on your intake pipe - Mine's a hard pipe.
Anyway just had email back from Forge to say replacement being sent out Mondy :happy2:
Alex used his welding skills to cover up the hole in the meantime. Worry is where the metal bits have gone obviously (into turbo I guess)
Maybe that's why along with misfire it didn't do 300bhp at JKM :sad1:
....My bend pipe being silicone (by Forge) is what confused me. Silicone can get rubbed and punctured too, so I'll check mine. Jim fixed it for me (JKM installed my Twintake) and it would have been typical of him to spot the potential problem and turn the OEM clip.
-
Forge had the car in 2010 to test the Twintake / TwinCooler on my car. They decided to use a hard pipe with 90 degree bend as opposed to earlier versions using a 90 degree silicone pipe.
....Hmm, perhaps I should upgrade to a hard pipe. I'm surprised that a hard pipe would make any significant difference over the silicone.
-
The hardpipe is for Leon fitment, and to be honest i would rather have some siliconehose in my turbo than aluminium pieces RR :wink: :laugh:
-
Forge had the car in 2010 to test the Twintake / TwinCooler on my car. They decided to use a hard pipe with 90 degree bend as opposed to earlier versions using a 90 degree silicone pipe.
....Hmm, perhaps I should upgrade to a hard pipe. I'm surprised that a hard pipe would make any significant difference over the silicone.
It will make no performance difference.
-
....Hmm, perhaps I should upgrade to a hard pipe. I'm surprised that a hard pipe would make any significant difference over the silicone.
It will make no performance difference.
....That's what I thought too :happy2:
The hardpipe is for Leon fitment, and to be honest i would rather have some siliconehose in my turbo than aluminium pieces RR :wink: :laugh:
....Exactly! Also, the silicone has a tad more tolerance to movement :happy2:
-
had the forge twin take on my R for a few weeks , cant fault it . Good bhp gains sounds good but not loud , fitted pretty good but i did move the hose clip round so it didnt rud like the one one here
-
Hi Folks, sorry to resurrect this thread but does anybody know if it's difficult or not to clean the Twintake filters? In other words, is it a skilled job to screw off the clamps and take the filter housing off, or is there more to it?? Nick @ R Tech kindly did this, and then merely tapped the ground once the filter was off to get rid of the dust, etc, but typical me, i paid little or no attention!! :confused:
Many thanks
Andrew
-
Having seen them up close, it looks like the jubilee clips can be done with a flathead screwdriver and then you pull off the canisters. Each one has screws - just undo one end and take out the filter. I'm sure there's a guide from Forge floating around somewhere.
The question is how do you clean the filter? That's what I like about OEM - just switch the filter panel. Once you get the engine cover off. :grin:
-
Cheers. From doing a bit of reading, a light blowing on the filter itself usually suffices, but as I said, Nick at R Tech just tapped it on the ground and sure enough there was quite a bit of dust! On the side one however there was hardly anything, so read into that what you will, lol! My biggest fear I guess is not being able to connect it all up again! :-S
-
Cheers. From doing a bit of reading, a light blowing on the filter itself usually suffices, but as I said, Nick at R Tech just tapped it on the ground and sure enough there was quite a bit of dust! On the side one however there was hardly anything, so read into that what you will, lol! My biggest fear I guess is not being able to connect it all up again! :-S
You are supposed to wash the filters in some soapy water, rinse thoroughly with clean water then allow to dry before reinstalling them. :smiley:
-
Forge had the car in 2010 to test the Twintake / TwinCooler on my car. They decided to use a hard pipe with 90 degree bend as opposed to earlier versions using a 90 degree silicone pipe.
....Hmm, perhaps I should upgrade to a hard pipe. I'm surprised that a hard pipe would make any significant difference over the silicone.
My silicone pipe has been rubbing on a clip underneath an is starting to wear, i have adjusted it a few times but still rubs eventually....think i will swap it out for this hard pipe.
Contact forge directly i supose??
-
Some serious reading in this thread about the twintake. Just about to order one myself.
-
Great review RedRobin, and thanks for the heads up on the hose clips Chungster!
-
Just taken my TWINtake of and sold it, found this which was rubbing out of sight somewhere, not right through though.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fneilmelvin%2FBuild%2F1-8_zps320f4744.jpg&hash=818e7026b1008a90e39c063cc68822083947aaa4)
-
Just taken my TWINtake of and sold it, found this which was rubbing out of sight somewhere, not right through though.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fneilmelvin%2FBuild%2F1-8_zps320f4744.jpg&hash=818e7026b1008a90e39c063cc68822083947aaa4)
....So that appears to be against rubber piping on the engine side and is hidden from view by the front mounted filter cannister.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FTwintake_installation.jpg&hash=0d173d44df7cc5586643933797eae93b99b3b7e5)
-
did notice the potential for this rubbing issue when installing my twintake and spent ages trying to adjust it out, i never had an issue with it but the car was sold a few month later so i guess the above is the outcome.
was still a great bit of kit though :happy2:
-
Can anyone say which way the filter cones inside the canisters are ment to face?
-
Can anyone say which way the filter cones inside the canisters are ment to face?
Not again..... i thought RR had sorted this one out :signLOL:
-
It's ok... Seen page 1 from a millenium ago.. Will be double checking mine. :happy2:
-
One of my filters has got abit dirty and would like to replace it. Is this the correct part?
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0016&product=FMIND12RF
-
One of my filters has got abit dirty and would like to replace it. Is this the correct part?
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0016&product=FMIND12RF
Why not just clean it? :happy2:
-
I thought only one got dirty anyway. :laugh:
-
I thought only one got dirty anyway. :laugh:
:popcornsoda:
-
I thought only one got dirty anyway. :laugh:
That's correct, as its the one that faces the front cold feed in outside the car rather then other intakes taking hot air from the engine bay instead :P
Forget surface areas and functionality.. That's just baloney :laugh:
Back to you :popcornsoda:
-
I thought only one got dirty anyway. :laugh:
That's correct, as its the one that faces the front cold feed in outside the car rather then other intakes taking hot air from the engine bay instead :P
Forget surface areas and functionality.. That's just baloney :laugh:
Back to you :popcornsoda:
You better have a word with Hurdy about his intake which sits in the engine bay then.... :wink:
-
I thought only one got dirty anyway. :laugh:
That's correct, as its the one that faces the front cold feed in outside the car rather then other intakes taking hot air from the engine bay instead :P
Forget surface areas and functionality.. That's just baloney :laugh:
Back to you :popcornsoda:
You better have a word with Hurdy about his intake which sits in the engine bay then.... :wink:
I don't need to rich.. I know I've brought the wrong Intake.
-
:signLOL:
-
I thought only one got dirty anyway. :laugh:
That's correct, as its the one that faces the front cold feed in outside the car rather then other intakes taking hot air from the engine bay instead :P
Forget surface areas and functionality.. That's just baloney :laugh:
Back to you :popcornsoda:
You better have a word with Hurdy about his intake which sits in the engine bay then.... :wink:
I don't need to rich.. I know I've brought the wrong Intake.
It's BOUGHT! :happy2:
-
I thought only one got dirty anyway. :laugh:
That's correct, as its the one that faces the front cold feed in outside the car rather then other intakes taking hot air from the engine bay instead :P
Forget surface areas and functionality.. That's just baloney :laugh:
Back to you :popcornsoda:
You better have a word with Hurdy about his intake which sits in the engine bay then.... :wink:
I don't need to rich.. I know I've brought the wrong Intake.
It's BOUGHT! :happy2:
He meant!, he has it in the car with him. :innocent:
-
Anyone want the hard pipe section for this? I have my original which Alex welded up so it's totally usable.
-
Anyone want the hard pipe section for this? I have my original which Alex welded up so it's totally usable.
Is this the 90 degree bend which on mine is made from silicon and being eaten by a coolant pipe hose?
If so, how much do you want for it?
Cheers John
-
Fast forward to Summer 2023 and it's only now 13 years later that I need to replace the filters on my TWINtake.